Custom Relic: Fission Hammer

[u/Boomyville]

[u/Hummus696]

Should be a shop relic like most relics with downsides but otherwise could make very funny meme runs

[u/DinTill → u/Hummus696]

It could definitely be very powerful. Small decks can easily cap out on upgrades with an early one of these.

[u/Hummus696 → u/DinTill]

I can already see the Baalor thumbnail

“Upgrade all of your cards? Yes please!”

[u/Thatoneguyigeug → u/Hummus696]

I can almost hear that in his voice

[u/knightofunderpants → u/Thatoneguyigeug]

"The power!"

[u/spookedghostboi → u/knightofunderpants]

"We've had one upgrade yes, but what about second upgrade?"

[u/Leaf-01 → u/spookedghostboi]

“Is this the Heart of the Spire? The source of all these random upgraded cards?”

[u/SomethingOfAGirl → u/Leaf-01]

"Two upgrades for the price of one? I like that. I like that a lot."

[u/MerzkyShoom → u/SomethingOfAGirl]

“Two upgrades would be good here.”

[u/Rdois-Pendragon-1987 → u/MerzkyShoom]

Fission Hammer welcome to my deck

[u/Electrical_Leg_6955 → u/SomethingOfAGirl]

"You'd love to see that."

[u/kingburp → u/Leaf-01]

"yeah... It's gonna be a nooooo on this hammer and tongs."

[u/nomickti → u/spookedghostboi]

100% this.

[u/nsg337 → u/knightofunderpants]

I love this community

[u/Landric → u/Hummus696]

NL: "Put the upgrades in the bag"

[u/Electrical_Leg_6955 → u/Hummus696]

Thinking in Baalor's voice improves your decision-making and increases your chance of winning a run

[u/MaDNiaC → u/DinTill]

Small deck with Searing Blow, scale to heavens and beyond!

[u/SippinOnHatorade → u/DinTill]

And then it’s just healing at fires or any of the extra options

[u/DinTill → u/SippinOnHatorade]

Yup. Awesome on Watcher with Girya.

[u/slvrbullet87 → u/DinTill]

If you get the upgrade all strikes and defends event, this relic would be amazing. If you don't then I assume it works like war paint or whetstone and only choses strikes and defends

[u/DinTill → u/slvrbullet87]

Well if you are removing the unupgraded starters then it should still only be a couple campfires before hitting your good stuff. But that is kinda the point of the relic. You sacrifice the ability to do targeted upgrades for more overall upgrades. If your deck needs specific, high value upgrades it’s definitely not going to be as good.

[u/BiologicalTrainWreck → u/Hummus696]

Small deck where the only remaining upgrade target is searing blow 💰

[u/Kerblaaahhh → u/BiologicalTrainWreck]

Would be sick if that meant it upgraded it twice.

[u/Jupue2707 → u/Kerblaaahhh]

Twice the upgrade, double the scaling

[u/Assistantshrimp → u/Hummus696]

Most relics with downsides? Other than Brimstone what other shop relic has downsides? Do you mean boss relics?

[u/Asleep_Cry2206 → u/Assistantshrimp]

I think he means any relic which you wouldn't always want. I tried to describe this before and found it difficult to find the right words.

Almost any regular relic you get, you will always take. There's no reason not to pick up a boot, or an incense burner. There are small exceptions of course, like if you are stalling for infinite potions or something, you wouldn't want to have bronze scales. But 999/1000 times, you would take any given "regular" relic just because.

Boss relics ~all~ sometimes have explicit downsides; no resting, no discarding on end turn, no gold, ect. There are "weaker" boss relics with no downside, like wrist blade or tiny house, but you could argue the downside of tiny house is not having a stronger boss relic instead. Same goes for the conditional energy relics, like kite or plasma, you could say the energy isn't as consistent as the other boss relics, which could be the "downside". This is why you are offered 3 boss relics at a time. You're not so much choosing your "upgrade" as much as you are choosing which "downside" youre willing to tolerate.

Many shop relics lie in a weird limbo between the two. Brimstone has another obvious downside, but the downside is so significant it would not be a great boss relic. Prismatic shard has a pseudo-downside, where you could say it "clogs" your card rewards. Runic capacitor could be bad if you rely on evoking your orbs a lot. Orange pellets can be good with snecko, but can also literally brick your run. Toolbox and spoon also fit this pseudo-downside category. However, once I go to look at the shop relics, I notice that most of them don't actually have this "downside" at all. Membership card, abacus, chem x, waffle... These are all just pretty good, and I can't think of many reasons not to take them (other than they cost gold, but that's a different conversation). But since so many of these relics have some pseudo-downside, they are relegated to only appearing in the shop, which allows you to choose if you want them or not. And leaving shop relics behind isn't as bad as killing an elite and not grabbing it's relic, because you can just use your gold later, or at that same shop on other things.

Then, the final boss of relics, frozen eye. It's obviously incredibly strong, but the "downside" is purely a mental one, in that it adds so much planning to every turn, many players simply don't take it to avoid the headache. It won't make you any weaker, and you could even ignore it, but IMO it fits well into this "pseudo-downside" category that some of the other shop relics fall into. I feel better seeing it in the shop and passing on it, than if I were to fight gremlin nob and live with 10 hp only to get a frozen eye that I don't want.

[u/TheGreatGimmick → u/Asleep_Cry2206]

But 999/1000 times, you would take any given "regular" relic just because.

The Bottle Relics are notable exceptions. Bottled Flame for obvious reasons, but even Bottled Lightning and Bottled Tornado can sometimes be bad if your best option is something like a Charge Battery or Hello World.

Dead Branch can also be actively bad for many runs.

Ninja Scroll is another situationally bad Relic.

[u/parrot6632 → u/TheGreatGimmick]

nothing quite describes the pain I feel when I pick up ninja scroll and get bag of prep 3 floors later.

[u/Legit_Human_ → u/parrot6632]

Just find nloth smh

[u/Belledame-sans-Serif → u/Asleep_Cry2206]

How does Orange Pellets brick runs?

[u/EthicalLapse → u/Belledame-sans-Serif]

I was also a bit confused, but he's still referring to the combination of Snecko Eye and Orange Pellets. Which, if you proc Orange Pellets at the wrong time will leave all your important cards with increased energy costs costing you the run.

[u/Exley21 → u/Asleep_Cry2206]

Thanks for writing this out, it's very well thought out. But how can orange pellets brick a run? I think it's incredibly strong and love picking it up in most decks.

[u/Asleep_Cry2206 → u/Exley21]

Specifically in combination with snecko eye. Snecko confuses you, and since that's a debuff, orange pellets removes it. If you've been building a high cost deck, losing confusion can basically kill you. You could play around it by not playing an attack, skill, and power in the same turn, but at that point why even take orange pellets? Thus, it's a shop relic.

Though the downside is considerably niche, snecko eye is a boss relic and you are more likely to see it than any other given relic. For top players it is often the best choice, and in the right circumstances I can see a reason to take both, and cleanse the confusion early to keep the +2 draw.

It's not the best example of my original point, but I think the original premise was weak in the first place. I was reaching for straws trying to come up with examples. I think many players have this "feeling" about the shop relics, which doesn't actually apply in most cases, but some relics fit into this very particular category and are relegated to the shop.

[u/nomickti → u/Asleep_Cry2206]

Agree with almost everything you wrote, but shop relics (like Frozen Eye) can only be purchased at the shop, they won't drop in an elite fight: https://slay-the-spire.fandom.com/wiki/Category:Shop_Relic

Where it gets confusing is shops also sell non-shop-relics, "Shop Relics are relics which can only be found for purchased in the shop. They usually fill more niche roles for a deck. Keep in mind the shop sells both Shop Relics and Standard Relics, though the rightmost relic will always be a Shop Relic."

https://slay-the-spire.fandom.com/wiki/Category:Relic

[u/MegamanX195 → u/nomickti]

The comment you're responding to never says otherwise, though. They're talking specifically about Shop exclusive relics, and then go on to argue that it would feel pretty bad to drop a Relic like Frozen Eye or Prismatic Shard or Strange Spoon from an Elite fight. That's why they are shop relics.

[u/Hummus696 → u/Assistantshrimp]

Prismatic shard bloating your rewards, for example, or strange spoon. Not “strict” downsides but most relics that change the way you play rather then benefit you solely are shop relics, and ofc boss relics but they’re in a league of their own imo.

[u/UsernameTaken017 → u/Hummus696]

[[Prismatic shard]]

[[Strange Spoon]]

[u/spirescan-bot → u/UsernameTaken017]

• Prismatic Shard Shop Relic ^{(100% sure)}

  Combat reward screens now contain colorless cards and cards from other colors.

• Strange Spoon Shop Relic ^{(100% sure)}

  Cards which Exhaust when played will instead discard 50% of the time.

  ^{Call me with up to 10 [[ name ]], where name is a card, relic, event, or potion. Data accurate as of April 20, 2024. Wiki Questions?}

[u/carreiraesteban → u/Assistantshrimp]

Prismatic shard is a downside sometimes if you can't get synergies going

[u/wingedespeon → u/Assistantshrimp]

Prismatic shard.

[u/Educational-Fold1135 → u/Hummus696]

If it stays boss relic I would say each time you upgrade a card, upgrade a random card too.

[u/Dovahkiin419 → u/Hummus696]

I do absolutely agree with you, but I am just thinking hard about how dead branch is just a relilc thats out there for everyone instead of A) a shop relic, or more practically B) an ironclad only relic.

Its absolute garbage for everyone else, mostly just translating to "once per combat, be given a random card, ocasionally flood your deck with garbage". The only reason ironclad likes it is that over a third of the time the garbage costs 0, and ocasionally even gives energy.

I dont think it should be a shop relic, that makes it too easy to get for those silly corruption runs, but it should just be ironclad only.

[u/Jondev1 → u/Dovahkiin419]

Nah, it is good on every character most of the time and it is good on ironclad even without corruption.

[u/SamiraSimp → u/Dovahkiin419]

i also really like dead branch on silent, you could argue it clogs your deck the second time around, but playing blade dance and getting 3-4 extra options is usually pretty good.

[u/nomickti → u/Dovahkiin419]

Dead Branch + Blade Dance would like a word.

[u/Dovahkiin419 → u/nomickti]

yeah exactly that's aweful. When you are using blade dances it's either early game or you're running shivs, early game you don't have dead branch, and if you're running shivs you don't need catalyst, catalyst, doppelgänger, malaise, you want to be digging for your other shivs.

As a counter example, I like nilry's codex, even if it's the worst book, but i turn down what it gives me 9 times out of 10, because clogging your deck is bad.

[u/Little-Maximum-2501 → u/Dovahkiin419]

Clogging your deck is not bad when everything dies before you even shuffle, which they all do because you don't need to waste energy on card draw when you have dead branch and you get to prioritize cards that generate energy without the normal downside of running out of cards.

I'm really baffled by people that think deadbranch with blade dance is bad, just playing with it once makes it obvious how broken this combo is.

[u/Hummus696 → u/Dovahkiin419]

Branch is a fair counter example to be fair, I personally think it should’ve been a shop relic, but either way I think that’s the only exception? I’m not entirely sure though

[u/Little-Maximum-2501 → u/Hummus696]

Its way too strong for how common it would become as a shop relic, not just on ironclad but on silent as well.

[u/Little-Maximum-2501 → u/Dovahkiin419]

Dead branch is still a top 5 relic on silent and very good on defect and watcher.

[u/A_GenericUser → u/Hummus696]

Homestuck PFP spotted ‼️

[u/Hummus696 → u/A_GenericUser]

The new ² upd8 today was so hype

[u/A_GenericUser → u/Hummus696]

This comment actually got me to catch up after not reading for a few months, and yeah you're right that was hype. Here's hoping Vriska's hyperbolic time chamber character development sticks and makes her more interesting

[u/Hummus696 → u/A_GenericUser]

If her ult self is Vriska and (Vriska) mixed I’m sure she’ll be at least a little better

[u/Boomyville]

Random shower thought, is upgrading two random cards better or worse than picking one card to upgrade. In the early game when key cards are not upgraded, the ability to choose upgrades can be pivotal. But also, what if shining light could be a relic?

[u/HumanTheTree → u/Boomyville]

IMO, it should be a rare relic that gives you a random upgrade in addition to your chosen upgrade whenever you smith.

[u/Varron → u/HumanTheTree]

What about just adding an option to the campfire to upgrade 2 Randoms, keeping the original upgrade option

[u/MerzkyShoom → u/Varron]

That… kinda makes it OP to me. Maybe I’m wrong but I like the balance created by losing the choice of what to upgrade entirely.

[u/JadedTrekkie → u/MerzkyShoom]

Exactly. These two suggestions kinda destroy what makes the relic interesting.

[u/SkulGurl → u/Boomyville]

Giving that the consensus I’ve heard is the “take damage to upgrade two random cards” is worth it even when you have to use a rest stop to heal and make up for it, I think the two random is generally better unless you have a very key upgrade

[u/JJ668 → u/SkulGurl]

I think it would actually be quite bad on average. Shining light is by no means a must pick, especially not, if you have to rest for it and that's the strongest place for it to be in a run. Act 1 is balanced around strikes and defends being your main plan, meaning that even upgrades to those bad cards is good, because they are disproportionately good upgrades in act 1 compared to when you have better cards. In later acts that event would probably only rarely get picked and tbh once you get actually good cards, I think it would actively be a hindrance.

[u/Maximus216 → u/JJ668]

I find it so hard to take on high ascension though. Find myself skipping it often

[u/Corbini42 → u/JJ668]

Yeah, but I think if I saw shining light in a later act, I'd be more likely to pick it because there's a lower chance of it whiffing on two starter cards.

[u/Nimkolp → u/Boomyville]

As Baalorlord has described before: “when you choose your upgrade, you’re upgrading your best card”

So is your best upgrade better than two average upgrades? Depends on the deck

[u/Enigma343 → u/Boomyville]

Silent won't be happy waiting for her Wraith Form to be upgraded.

If you have a key upgrade like that, you could be waiting for a long time. Doesn't help that you're picking up additional (possibly un-upgraded) cards along the way, which increases your potential upgrade pool.

[u/mr-pallas → u/Enigma343]

This is also in addition to having the fattest starting deck, which further dilutes this relic.

[u/Thatoneguyigeug]

Ah so smithing now upgrades two defends or strikes

[u/ill_thrift → u/Thatoneguyigeug]

unless you're doing a perfect strike run and then it only upgrades defends

[u/boowhitie]

Smithing now upgrades two random Blocks

[u/UsernameTaken017 → u/boowhitie]

That's like removing two curses from your deck though

[u/wra1th42 → u/boowhitie]

Silent: I see this as an absolute win

[u/ConsiderationFew8399 → u/boowhitie]

Hey nothing wrong with a Defend+. Much better than a Strike+

[u/SirBobz → u/ConsiderationFew8399]

Why?

[u/Nyasta → u/SirBobz]

Going from 5 to 8 is a more impactfull upgrade then going from 6 to 9.

Blocking 8 for one energy will almost always save you 8hp while dealing 9 for one energy is not guaranted to have an impact, in fact in single ennemy fights it probably will not.

To put it simply, having more dammage is useless if the dammage boost isn't enough to reduce the number of turns to kill while having more block is always good unless you can already full block everything and at that point you have already won.

[u/amplidud → u/SirBobz]

Just because of how the game works.

Enemies scale up to 800+ hp. 9dmg from a strike+ is not going to be a part of any decks damage plan after earlyish act 2.

From a damage perspective though the biggest hits you take are ~50-70. Obviously block+ alone do not get you there but on any given turn a block+ could be 10-20% of the block you need that turn.

Also from a numbers on cards stand point 9dmg per energy is pretty poor for damage but 8 block per energy is not terrible. particularly for the silent where most of her block just has additional words and not really more pure block efficiency. But things like shrug it off is also 8block for 1 energy for example.

[u/Hot_Philosopher_6462]

This is great, and probably not overpowered. I just wouldn't personally like it; I'm not a fan of losing control.

[u/Scared_Astronaut9377 → u/Hot_Philosopher_6462]

Arguably, such cards are inherently the stronger the worse your play is.

[u/councilhearts]

I like it!

I'm just picturing getting sozu with white beast statue, and then this with fusion hammer 😅

[u/Mini_Boss_Tank]

Searing Blow, go!

Seriously pretty good in a relatively small searing blow deck? You get to upgrade everything and searing blow

Very bad if there are some key upgrades that you really want to get, or if you have fusion hammer, but downside is almost like fusion hammer (can't guarantee key upgrades)

Kind of unusual for a non-boss/event relic to have a clear downside

[u/BadPoEPlayer → u/Mini_Boss_Tank]

Yeah but it’s still not better than the ultimate searing blow synergy, [[singing bowl]]

[u/spirescan-bot → u/BadPoEPlayer]

• Singing Bowl Uncommon Relic ^{(100% sure)}

  When adding cards to your deck, you may gain +2 Max HP instead.

  ^{Call me with up to 10 [[ name ]], where name is a card, relic, event, or potion. Data accurate as of April 20, 2024. Wiki Questions?}

[u/CMonster907 → u/Mini_Boss_Tank]

If you are trying to make a searing blow run, you can't waste upgrades on other stuff. Even if searing blow is your only added card, a campfire is only hitting searing blow ~20% of the time with 2 random upgrades. Losing an upgrade or 3 per act due to chance kinda nukes the whole idea. I'd say searing blow is one of the worst possible cards to pair with this relic.

[u/CrasherRuler → u/CMonster907]

Where do you get 20% from? Also, I think the point is to get a super small deck, then have everything upgraded, and start getting double upgrades on searing blow. (If it works like that.)

[u/Boomyville → u/CrasherRuler]

I would presume it would work the same as shining light which upgrades 2 random cards; I think in that event if all cards are upgraded it does nothing?

[u/CMonster907 → u/CrasherRuler]

2 pulls from 11 cards is close enough to 20% and will be 2/10 will be campfire 2 if you hit searing blow on the first one. And thats with 0 other cards added. I guess being able to hit searing blow twice would change my opinion though. I assumed it would be 1 trigger like whetstone which can't hit searing blow twice even though it does 2 upgrades.

[u/nomickti → u/CMonster907]

Yes, I think this would behave like whetstone.

[u/Archaius_]

i kinda like this idea, arguably it makes you weaker in the short term (unless ur lucky) but assuming you dont have a insane deck size ur gonna rapidly approach a fully upgraded deck and then ur much stronger

[u/UsernameTaken017]

GAMBLE GAMBLE GAMBLE GAMBLE

[u/Ellikichi]

At the very least this would make an awesome modifier in Custom mode.

[u/Gre8g]

Remove all Strikes

Smiths

Upgrades 2 Strikes

[u/Amedamaneku]

It'd be bad. It's a delayed reward with a downside. Whetstone and War Paint upgrade two randoms immediately, this only matches those after two upgrades, in exchange for losing control of upgrades. If it had no downside and upgraded a random in addition to a selected card it would be less bad.

[u/MythicSeat]

Love the flavour text lol

[u/devTripp]

I am 100.0% confident you mentioned Fission in your post.

---

• Fission Defect Rare Skill

  0 Energy | Remove (Evoke) ALL of your Orbs. Gain 1 Energy and draw 1 card for each Orb removed(Evoked). Exhaust.

---

^{I am a bot response, but I am using my creator's account. Please reply to me if I got something wrong so he can fix it.}

Source Code

[u/SomethingOfAGirl]

Two upgraded strikes wouldn't be the end of the world... It could be worse, like an upgraded Infinite Blades.

[u/SerialFloater]

I thought that downsides were always greater than upsides in StS, so maybe it should be "upgrade 1-2 random cards" instead of a guaranteed 2 🙈

[u/Soren59 → u/SerialFloater]

That sounds really bad.

It already has the added downside of replacing an immediately useful relic and needing to smith at fires to get value out of, so I think it's pretty balanced. Toxic Egg is also an Uncommon relic that will arguably net you a lot more upgrades overall in most runs.

[u/SeraphicSiren8]

Just for the pure fun of it, I would gladly take this any time. I love a weird random upgrade.

[u/Aromatic_Pain2718]

Love this!

[u/Livid63]

I think this would fit better as a boss relic that upgrades 3 random cards as i feel 2 is too little and the downside is too significant to just be a non boss relic

[u/JukeRedlin]

Iunno what this sub is, but why's your hammer flipping me off?

[u/waddlesq]

Feels like a skip pretty often, and I don't think you want a relic that gets skipped very often.

[u/Ecleptomania]

Upgrades two random cards, can upgrade curses.

[u/ReroAsu]

I think this could be overpowered. What about "Shop's Card removal service now remones 2 random cards."? Also op?