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u/SmollGreenme Feb 22 '25
I hit all the question marks because I think it's funny.
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u/TheFiremind77 Heartbreaker Feb 22 '25
When you realize Cursed Key and Tiny Chest is actually a great combo for Ironclad
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u/Tabooharmony Feb 23 '25
Tired: question marks are bad because fights get you card rewards, potions, and gold.
Wired: question marks are good because you don’t have to fight enemies (play the game) and you won’t lose health from chip/lose the game (except when you do)
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u/iceeice3 Feb 23 '25
I heard boxbox say question marks are op in the one sts stream of his I watched and I've taken it as gospel ever since
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u/treelorf Feb 22 '25
I used to as well until the ascension where question marks got nerfed. I still usually path to nearly every question mark on floor 2
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u/HomemPassaro Ascension 20 Feb 22 '25
I platinum'd this game and I still suck at it
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u/zachary_cannaday Ascension 20 Feb 23 '25
The age old curse of becoming so good at a game not only do you know how terrible you were before, you can't even make 1 sub perfect play without questioning your whole life
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u/pasture2future Ascension 20 Feb 22 '25
You just described… playing the game
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u/royrese Feb 22 '25
No, he's saying that when you're just starting out or just learning A20, you go unga bunga and take the most risk possible for a broken build by the end of Act 3.
As you get better you realize sometimes you should only take 1 elite in Act 2 or rest instead of upgrading at 9 health then dying and restarting Act 1 because you don't feel like playing a run "down an upgrade".
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u/TheFiremind77 Heartbreaker Feb 22 '25
Not me restarting runs until the burning elite is in neow's lament range
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u/Gersio Eternal One + Heartbreaker Feb 22 '25
There is really not that much of a difference between those 2 playstyles. One is more risk averse and the other a risk taker but I don't think it's fair to consider one of those playstyles valid and the other "troll". No one is gonna beat A20 just going unga bunga, you need very high understanging of the game to beat it even if you decide to play lottery style simply because the way to play lottery style requires beating a lot of elites, and beating a lot of elites is one of the hardest things to do in A20.
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u/Amedamaneku Feb 22 '25
The difference is that one player has a 5% winrate because they die on act 1 repeatedly until they get a god start that lets them play as greedily as possible, and one player has a 50% winrate because they try survive each act to take each run as far as possible.
I don't care about players doing whatever they have fun with, but the cautious high winrate player is strategically engaging with the game more because they actually consider resting, passing elites, buying potions, passing on options that cost life, and things like that, while the unga bunga doesn't consider those options at all because greed is always the answer.
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u/Gersio Eternal One + Heartbreaker Feb 23 '25
I mean, yeah, if you make up the percentages of course your point looks true. I could make up that the first player wins 45% of time and the second 50% so the difference is very little. You can't just make up data and claim you are right lol.
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u/royrese Feb 22 '25
There's definitely a huge difference. It's not about being risk averse vs risky, it's about actually having an understanding of the strengths of your deck vs different challenges at different points. The first style is how I played for the first 500 hours, now even when I am just zoning out and playing I make much more measured decisions in my pathing, constantly considering my current strength and potions. Going unga bunga probably wins you 10%-20% of A20H runs if you can pilot fights well and make decent decisions on cards.
I didn't say it was "troll", but I was responding to someone who said the meme is just describing how the game is always played, and I really don't think it is. It can be how the game is played, which to me is exactly what the meme is saying. It's fun to go unga bunga but if you are trying to win more it's not the right thing to do most of the time.
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u/BobbleBobble Ascension 20 Feb 23 '25
Absolutely true, but optimizing your A20H win rate has to be the difference between, what, 96th and 98th percentile?
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u/Ship_Psychological Feb 22 '25
I really can't imagine there's people who play like this. Meme seems sus.
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u/skywalker_fit Feb 22 '25
You are one of the only people to actually get this meme. Did not expect so much negativity lmao
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u/ThatOne5264 Ascension 20 Feb 22 '25
I play reeally slowly instead. I dont know whats more time effective lol
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u/Illya-ehrenbourg Eternal One Feb 22 '25
I think there are the good synergies (For instance Corruption + alt least one of FNP/Dark Embrace) that you can reasonably get in most games and busted one (same but add dead branch) that you'd rarely get.
Obviously at A20H you are a good player but the best one can still win with only a decent luck regarding relics/cards.
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u/Kuro013 Feb 22 '25
Nah, when you see players who are actually good at the game... They dont seem to need too much to make a deck work. They're just better.
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u/treelorf Feb 22 '25
I mean taking every elite trying to get something broken up will certainly win you some runs. But if you are trying to get like, a very high winrate, you have to path a lot more carefully. Personally I usually just send it, but occasionally I try to really play smart and win the lowroll runs too.
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u/Hammerhead34 Ascension 20 Feb 22 '25
I mean, I don’t think it really matters how anyone chooses to play a single player game as long as they’re having fun, but it’s definitely true that a large portion of this user base here subscribes to a highroll or bust mentality (greedy card choices early, never resting, trying to double elite snipe)
And that’s totally fine, it’s a pretty fun way to play the game! I just sometimes notice clashes when highroll players try to argue with players who are trying to maximize winrate about heuristics/strategy.
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u/PudgyElderGod Feb 22 '25
Have you considered that attacking all the elites they can and trying to find busted synergies is fun for a lot of folks?
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u/skywalker_fit Feb 22 '25
Yeah that’s why I do it 😂
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u/PudgyElderGod Feb 23 '25
Iunno if your words match the meme format you chose, but hell yeah dude.
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u/skywalker_fit Feb 23 '25
So for an individual run, taking max amount of elites in act 1 usually is a bad decision. You’re more likely to lose. So it is a suboptimal way to play but a fun way. The meme format works lol
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u/11middle11 Feb 22 '25
The only way to win is to find busted synergies :D
I don’t think it’s possible to beat heart with the starter hand.
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u/Hammerhead34 Ascension 20 Feb 22 '25
I think a huge chunk of this subreddit is unable to pilot a deck that isn’t above the power curve early. Or at least unwilling, which is fine if you don’t find that fun, but don’t act like it’s impossible.
You can absolutely win with decks that don’t highroll. I think navigating Act 2 with a deck that is struggling, knowing when to make greedy or conservative choices, trying to reach an inflection point of card quality, saving a key potion for the boss, etc. and finally turning it around into a winning run is one of the most satisfying thing you can do in the game. Much more satisfying than just finding Biased Cog Pellets in Act 1.
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u/JJ668 Feb 22 '25
I think watching the run Zecnar made when he lost his rotating wr win streak was awe inspiring. I looked at that deck and it was some of the worst synergies I've ever seen, with a boss swap into choker on silent of all things. It was at that moment that I realized almost every time I lost was just straight up my fault and not RNG. Like he lost at act 3 boss but the fact that he made it there was unreal.
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u/11middle11 Feb 22 '25
Given how i just managed to lose a (corruption/anger/unceasing top) start ya I think you are onto something.
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u/Instant_Digital_Love Feb 22 '25
Exactly. It's about making do with what you have and running with it. I had so many runs I thought were fails because Snake Plant took me to 3 HP halfway through Act 2...and then I get the relics and cards I needed to get me to the Heart. It's all about how you steer the ship.
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u/Gersio Eternal One + Heartbreaker Feb 22 '25
You can absolutely win with decks that don’t highroll
That's true but he wasn't talking about highrolling, he was talking about finding sinergies. And honestly it's true, you can't really beat the game without finding good sinergies. Sure, bad players will only beat the game when they find the most obvious and easy sinergies and the good ones can make decks work with more uncommon and less powerful sinergies. But in the end most of the game is about taking enough risk to get more chances to find the good sinergies that power your run, which is pretty much what OP talked in the meme. Some players in this sub are just too harsh with themselves.
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u/Rakna-Careilla Feb 23 '25
I only know the other side where even with a highroll of pandora's box, tingsha, tough bandages or lizard tail, etc., you can still lose.
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u/fulowa Ascension 20 Feb 22 '25
fun challenge: how far can u get with watcher starter deck.
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u/11middle11 Feb 22 '25
Do I get to delete cards and promote cards? Or just straight deck.
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u/fulowa Ascension 20 Feb 22 '25
upgrades and removes allowed i‘d say
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u/11middle11 Feb 22 '25
Died to hex ghost. This is gonna be rough :D
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u/zachary_cannaday Ascension 20 Feb 23 '25
1 hour later
Died to hex ghost
I mean at this rate we'll be done in 4-5 hours of attempts!
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u/Accomplished-List657 Eternal One + Heartbreaker Feb 22 '25
I don't think so? Maybe with some nutty relic luck. But like... There's a middle ground between "Starter deck" and "Busted synergies" lmao, I've absolutely won runs without nutty things like corruption/dark embrace or stance dance infinites or whatnot.
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u/cheezzy4ever Ascension 20 Feb 22 '25
Watcher can do it. Baalor has done it before lol
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u/JKhemical Ascension 9 Feb 22 '25
Tbf I think this says more about how The Watcher is balanced if anything
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u/Albiz Eternal One + Heartbreaker Feb 22 '25
Proud to say I’ve beaten A20 heart on all characters.
Also proud to say I’ve restarted from A1 and have no idea how I’ve beaten A20 heart on all characters.
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u/A_Certain_Surprise Feb 22 '25
"If you beat the hardest challenge in the game, but you purposefully play to give yourself the most advantage, you're not good at the game"
Weird post tbh
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u/skywalker_fit Feb 22 '25
Forcing a path with many elites in Act 1 is risky and can end your run very fast. More seasoned players will balance risk and reward and tend to avoid putting themselves in situations they’re not ready for. This meme suggests doing the opposite of that can be fun because the reward is higher although it is paid much less frequently. CLEARLY you aren’t at that level so I understand why this nuanced meme would go over your simple head. Git gud noob
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u/Browneyesbrowndragon Feb 22 '25
"More seasoned" it's literally just a different playstyle. This post is just next level gatekeeping.
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u/Mammoth_Rip_8729 Feb 22 '25
A different play style is die a lot except for the times I get lucky and nail the synergy from the relics is true but one is objectively more successful than the other
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u/zerogravitas365 Feb 22 '25
If I want it to be silly and fun I just turn the difficulty down a bit. If you can beat A20H then A1H is just comedically easy, you can make any old crap work pretty much. Had a couple of beers and don't want to think too hard, that's an option.
When I play A20H I know it's going to go wrong more often than it doesn't. I'm going to have to rest in A1, scrape through the boss for a bad boss relic and get destroyed in early act 2 like, frequently. I've been watching Baalorlord get onto a horrible losing streak this week, I didn't count but it was a fair few. He's an elite level player, I am not. Game's hard. It is very rewarding when you drag an unkind seed over the line somehow, way more effort than just some crazy dead branch nonsense but entirely worth it. I keep playing because I'd like to be able to do that more often. I'd also like a streak of more than two.
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u/NeverQuiteEnough Feb 22 '25
Restarting often, fishing for lucky runs is optimizing for instant gratification, but it robs you of the best of what the game has to offer.
Getting out of a sticky situation with a creative solution is extremely fun, but the growth required to access that is only accessible through repeated failure.
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u/JDublinson Eternal One + Heartbreaker Feb 22 '25
Current time eater fight in the slay by comment run is a perfect case in point.
For those not following along, the deck just cannot properly outscale time eater and has no wail/malaise to reset, so we took Transmutation from Toolbox, dumped 5 energy into it on the reset turn, nearly completely bricked (2x Deep Breath, Enlightenment, Dramatic Entrance, and Metamorphosis). Metamorphosis was our only hope, and it hit 3/3 good attacks, including a playable Grand Finale for the next turn, and it accelerated damage just enough to get through the second half of the fight. So much more exciting and fun than just easily dominating the end game with an overpowered deck
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u/Frendova Feb 22 '25
Restarting just seems like a terrible idea to me. On A20 you will die so quickly on a bad run anyway. You also might potentially learn something in the process.
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u/Hammerhead34 Ascension 20 Feb 22 '25
You’ve said it perfectly, I think most of the players here are unable or at unwilling to pilot decks that don’t highroll early and then try to give advice like they’re some grand experts of the game.
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u/skywalker_fit Feb 22 '25
I totally agree. Such a cool moment when you’re on the brink of losing and you come up with a solid plan and it pans out
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u/Luchofromvenezuela Feb 22 '25
The secret ingredient is savescumming
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u/treelorf Feb 22 '25
I mean if you beat a20h you are obviously quite good at the game. Although in a lot of ways, that is like the beginning of the rabbit hole. Like the difference in skill and knowledge about the game between your average a20h player and life coach is MONUMENTAL. We can recognize that people are good at a game, and some people are incredible at it.
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u/PoMoAnachro Feb 22 '25
I've only gotten up to A12H on all the characters, but I do definitely know I tend to go for a "win more" approach where I take big risks early on because I'd rather die early and restart than get into Act 3 not knowing whether my deck will be good enough to win or not.
So my winrate is low, but when I do win it is like no contest and the Heart never stood a chance. I'm doing Ironclad with Corruption/Dark Embrace/Barricade, or I'm Watcher and I've got the Rushdown infinite, whatever.
It is fun but I do think it is stopping me from getting better at the game when I'm essentially just re-rolling until I get a set of "nearly impossible to lose" cards or relics.
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u/Says_Pointless_Stuff Feb 22 '25
Literally you just need to pull a cohesive build together based on the cards that you see. At this point I assume we're all familiar with the build archetypes, of which there are generally 3 for each character:
Ironclad: Strength, Block, Exhaust
Silent: Shivs, Discard, Poison
Defect: Power-spam, Orb Cycling (Abusing darkness orbs & stalling w Frost), Reprogram/Hyperbeam
The Watcher: Headbutt screen into infinite/autowin
Okay but really: Divinity, Wrath/Calm, Infinite palms
Edit: these can overlap to some degree to balance out a deck
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u/Hammerhead34 Ascension 20 Feb 22 '25
I think categorizing cards/decks into “archetypes” can be helpful when you’re first learning the game but is actively detrimental if you want to get better/win more consistently.
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u/Says_Pointless_Stuff Feb 22 '25
Yeah, maybe I should put a note regarding that. Eventually you should just be solving problems with your deck.
"What is my deck lacking?/What will kill me here if I run into it next?"
If nothing then:
"What will make my deck more powerful?"
If a card does neither of those, then skip. Not taking cards is the correct move a fair amount of the time.
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u/TheLastGunslingerCA Ascended Feb 22 '25
I am feeling rather called out by this. Nevermind that I've only cleared A20H on 'clad, and seemingly only through the power of either Brimstone or Corruption/Dead Branch, that's incidental.
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u/OwlWhoNeedsCoffee Eternal One + Heartbreaker Feb 22 '25
I've done A20 a bunch of times with each character but I still feel like the game makes a fool of me on most runs.
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u/General-Substance274 Feb 22 '25
I have only beaten a20 on IC but I don't try to super optimize I genuinely just play how I feel and if I win I win. I feel optimizing super hard to guarantee a win takes away from my personal experience. Its a single player game and it's fine going tryhard for consistency but I play cause it's a good turn based game that really lets me do as I please within it's world.
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u/Bookablebard Feb 22 '25
I think the number of runs it took you to beat A20H on all characters is a good how good are you metric. For instance it took me one quintillion runs so I am probably the best
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u/kryse222 Ascension 20 Feb 22 '25
This is one of those moments where I just feel like I HAVE to flex. I have 100% on each of the profiles. Ngl it makes me feel like a god
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u/False-Definition15 Eternal One + Heartbreaker Feb 22 '25
Restart or not, beating A20 is incredibly difficult and not everyone can do it. I would say most players can’t.
If I gave the controller to my fiance on A20 and said you can restart as many times as you want, infinitely, just beat it. She couldn’t.
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u/FullMetalJohn Feb 22 '25
I’ve beat all characters on A20 and the only missing achievement I have is the under 20 minute one and I still don’t feel like in the top percentage of players. Maybe that comes from watching the content creators who have 10+ win streaks and what not
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u/MrNigel117 Eternal One + Ascended Feb 22 '25
i've only beat silent at a20, got all achievements tho
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u/dancezachdance Feb 22 '25
I'm at ~300 hours and I just beat A12 with ironclad. Now the other three. 8 more times. At least.
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u/Dovahkiin419 Feb 22 '25
Tbh t hats how I go about it specifically because its fun. And more importantly it means less thinking. I use slay the spire like solitaire, its something I've played enough so that it doesn't require much thinking. I use it while listening to recorded lectures and readings (i put it into a text to speech program)
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u/HPDDJ Feb 22 '25
What is the H in A20H? I've beaten ascension 20 on all four but not sure about that part.
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u/Kuro013 Feb 22 '25
Ive beaten A20 on every class and I know for a fact that Im trash at the game lol.
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u/iso_taupe Feb 22 '25
I have an A20 heart rotating streak of three wins, but I still feel mediocre at the game and die way more often than I win
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u/UbiquitousAllosaurus Ascension 20 Feb 22 '25
That's me. I have all characters on A20 and I'm complete trash. I only win A20 heart runs when I get some busted synergy that would be nearly impossible to lose with.
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u/CasualFriday11 Feb 23 '25
This joke is what the Elden Ring sub is like when they learn someone used spirit ashes.
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u/Shiroza_Itoshiki Feb 23 '25
I got every achievement and a20 with everyone I suck ass bro it took me months to do a silent a20
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u/TuhTuhTony Feb 23 '25
I just keep the game on A9, random character, collect all keys, and force myself to path for the most elites each floor unless I will clearly die. It's a comfortable level of difficulty
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u/Gabagod Feb 23 '25
Ive done a20 on all characters but not beaten the heart on all of them. It’s insanely hard. I’ve only managed that with the watcher and silent
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u/Rakna-Careilla Feb 23 '25
Take Rupture for a masochist build, instead of the block card that should be taken.
If dies because low HP:
Take Rupture AGAIN!
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u/reichplatz Feb 23 '25
sometimes i mix up the paths and accidentally do one elite less than max
its incredible how much easier the run becomes
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u/Notmiefault Eternal One + Heartbreaker Feb 23 '25
After getting A20H on all characters I dropped down to A16 and never looked back - A20H is just too much brainpower for me, I much prefer a more forgiving meta where I can mess around with fun-but-weak cards and still make progress.
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u/Oberonkin Feb 23 '25
If you haven't won on A20 with an Act1 Prismatic, you are not good.
This is not bias. I haven't done this. I am also not good.
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u/skywalker_fit Feb 23 '25
Oh the dream. Prismatic shard guarantees I see the worst set of cards possible but I’m always taking it lol
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u/Nearsighted_Madman Feb 23 '25
My routes consist of as many elites and question marks as humanely possible.
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u/Chiatroll Feb 23 '25
I almost miss memes in this format because of how aggressively this was used in ads that I can't avoid from the app.
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u/Potential_Pen_6176 Feb 24 '25
I have A20 streaks of 2 on clad, 3 on silent, 1 on defect and 7 on watcher. Some of the streaks ended because I forgot to take the third key sadge.
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u/Sadsquideyez Feb 24 '25
I actually do have a lot of fun restarting fights to see if im able to squeeze out a win against a difficult elite/boss fight :3 i beat A20 on ironclad, and got all the achievements. im tryna get all the base characters to A20 and thennnn try the heart kills
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u/Hypocritical_Sheep Feb 24 '25
If my run couldnt survive all my maximum greed actions then it was simply not meant to be.
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u/bartlesnid_von_goon Feb 22 '25
AKA 'Beating the game on A20H with all characters'? Not certain what the meme is here.
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u/ThomTomo Feb 22 '25
im gonna be completely honest if someone has done a20 on all the characters im going to assume they're better than 90% of the playerbase. either that or they have incredible dedication to getting the run, which is probably nearly as impressive anyways