The Watcher

[u/AdAgreeable8926]

How t’f do I beat the spire???? I tried following guides and utilizing the proper cards for setups. I got to the spire many times in a row just to die again and again with the watcher. There is something I’m missing. I try to mix it up and have some blocks or more blocks (I always remove the starter block cards btw.) The other fighters were relatively easier IMO, but when it came to the watcher, I don’t even have a chance after the third or fourth rotation.

[u/Same_Plant_5973]

Watcher is managing stances, my suggestion is try to get stance dancing down before trying to pick up mantra cards, take exits(empty cards) and calm, you gain two energy when exiting calm and do double damage when in wrath(take double as well), use this to your advantage. Watcher can have some issues with blocking, and I personally end up either using mental fortress(the greatest block card in stance dance decks) talk to the hand(great when you have a lot of attacks playing) or wallop(the harder you hit the more block you get). Finally watcher has really good draw like scrawl and rushdown, always take rushdown in stance dance decks

[u/AdAgreeable8926 → u/Same_Plant_5973]

I hear you, stance dancing isn’t the issue for me and the card selection. I think what I’m missing is scrawl and rush down. What is the optimal number of cards you keep in the deck?

[u/AdAgreeable8926 → u/AdAgreeable8926]

I will try to take more calm cards as well, usually I’m not too worried about those on my runs. That could be the very problem and I rely on mantra depending on the relics and power cards.

[u/Unnnamed_Player1 → u/AdAgreeable8926]

Yeah, it's pretty important to be able to exit wrath as well. One of the main ways you lose as watcher is getting stuck in wrath as the enemy attacks you for like 30 damage which gets doubled to 60. Inner peace, fear no evil, meditate, and empty mind are generally the best wrath exits, but something like empty fist is also excellent in the early game.

I also wouldn't worry too much about going for a specific deck size. You can win with any deck size, really - watcher can quite easily go infinite and win with like 3 cards, but i've also recently won a silent run with a 58 card deck. I know this is unhelpful, but you really just want to be adding the cards that will help you win the run, and skip the cards that don't. Sometimes that leads to having a large deck, other times it does not.

[u/AdAgreeable8926 → u/Unnnamed_Player1]

I agree, it really varies on what is given. With the other characters, I know what I can use to win runs solely because there is no stance dancing to worry about. I remember doing silent runs with bigger decks to ensure a win. I just feel like when I set up these awesome decks they end up being shuffled to the point where I have no chance of getting the proper attack/block scenarios

[u/TheMausoleumOfHope → u/AdAgreeable8926]

If you want to get the basics of Watcher down, just mostly ignore mantra. Take a balance of wrath and calm cards. Calm is super important and you usually want slightly more of those (depends, though). Inner Peace and Meditate in particular are very good. Pretty much all the Wrath and Calm cards are good though except for Simmering Fury, which usually is not especially good.

It’s also important to take neutral cards. Empty Fist is best early on. Empty Mind is very good but gets better as you get more cards. Empty Body isn’t great but sometimes you do need it.

[u/AdAgreeable8926 → u/TheMausoleumOfHope]

I keep hearing about meditate, I’ll add that to my deck as well. Thanks!

[u/TheMausoleumOfHope → u/AdAgreeable8926]

It’s kind of like adding another calm and wrath card all in one. One way to think about your deck as Watcher is, “How many times can I enter calm and wrath per deck cycle?”

You want to be able to enter wrath more than once. One way to achieve that is picking up another wrath card, obviously. Or you can take Meditate and use it to pull Eruption back into your hand. It’s just a hugely impactful set up card.

[u/working4buddha → u/AdAgreeable8926]

If you end up with Meditate, Establishment is a good pick because then the cards you put back in your hand can cost 0 (or 1 if it's Vigilance etc). Don't pick Establishment without it and try to build a "retain" deck around it, that can work but it is tough.

[u/Same_Plant_5973 → u/AdAgreeable8926]

Well if you want optimal, id say you want less than 10 total cards in your deck thats in play, preferably less than 7 so statuses cant hurt you that much that has 1 wrath enter that does damage and 1 calm enter that’s unconditional and 1 cost calm enter(unless you have violet lotus which then 2 cost calm also works). That plus at least 1 rush down preferably 2, 1 or 2 copies of mental fortress or talk to the hand, then add in cards like scrawl or vault that’s one time utility or other powers that you may want and you have an infinite basically and that could look like a 15-18 card deck. Otherwise anywhere in the mid 20s to 30 cards can work with multiple calm and wrath enters with rush down

[u/AdAgreeable8926 → u/Same_Plant_5973]

That makes a lot of sense, thanks! I will try to set it up 💪🏻

[u/Jacketter]

Honestly Wallop and basically just staying in wrath will get you through the first few ascensions.

[u/working4buddha → u/Jacketter]

This is the way. Too many people give advice to beginners that you don't need until higher ascensions.

But mostly you just want big hits and Wallop gives you a big hit AND damage control. You would be surprised how many times you can just stay in Wrath and not even "stance dance" much.

[u/AdAgreeable8926 → u/Jacketter]

Sometimes I wish I got the necronomicon relic to help my case with wallop and talk to the hand.

[u/BaLance_95]

Just adding. A lot of my watcher play is about pop off turns. Scry is very useful to fix what cards are coming next turn (and throwing away curses), or draw more with [[rushdown]] Stay in calm, and enter wrath if you can kill off all attacking targets (or have boss do no attacks) or if you can enter calm immediately after. My previous run, I got the powers [[Establishment]] [[Battle Hymn]] and [[Master Reality]] which gave me a 0 cost, retained, 16 damage card every turn. This did bonkers damage when I enter wrath.

[u/AdAgreeable8926 → u/BaLance_95]

I will keep that mind, thanks! With all this feedback, I could possibly beat it after two years.

[u/TheMonsterMensch]

There's a great Baalorlord video on playing the Watcher. That's what finally made her click for me

[u/AdAgreeable8926 → u/TheMonsterMensch]

I will watch his runs and try to get more clarity. Preciate it.

[u/working4buddha]

People are going to tell you to go infinite but you don't need to do that when you first start playing Watcher.

The infinite will teach you the basics though... basically Watcher does double damage + you get extra energy so you want to be able to draw your best cards to play after that, which aren't defends or even strikes, though they are twice as good as with the other characters.

I would take cards like Cut Through Fate (scry gets you to the good cards), Empty Fist (huge attack upgraded when in Wrath and it saves you from taking damage if you don't kill), Bowling Bash (can kill a Slaver or other multi-enemy fights in Wrath).

Scrawl and Vault are the best two cards but you can win without them on early levels. Of course you want some stance cards, don't over-do them but def grab Tantrum, Fear No Evil, Inner Peace, Empty Mind etc when you see them. You don't usually need more than two of each kind. If you have a lot of stance cards then Flurry is good.

For block, Mental Fortress and Talk to the Hand are great but you don't need them at early Ascensions tbh. TTTH is mostly good if you have a lot of stance dancing with Flurry (also Weave with Scry is good). Wallop and Halt are the easiest block cards to use and will save you. Third Eye is good too. Scry is really good in general, if you don't quite get it, even just skipping Defends and Strikes will get you started.

Watcher is by far the easiest character so once you figure it out you'll realize how OP it is. There are a lot of threads like this so search for those too.

[u/fulowa]

• take pyramid (crazy strong on watcher especially)
• add 1-3 big dmg cards
• add wrath entries and exits in equal amount
• block plan: wallops + vuln, talk to the hands, etc (often u want multiple block strats)
• meditate very strong (upgrade asap)
• take vault

[u/AdAgreeable8926 → u/fulowa]

I will try this, thanks!