r/solotravel • u/hardcore-self-help • Oct 05 '22
NEW and updated guide to LEGALLY stay 180 days in the Schengen area (Bilateral Agreement hack)
2023 additional info by another user
7 months ago, I made a post here outlining how I was LEGALLY able to stay in Denmark for 90 days after traveling 90 days in the Schengen area. Certain Schengen countries have the Bilateral Agreement law, which allows you to legally stay there for additional 90 days on top of the 90 days you spend in the Schegnen area. There are many EU countries that have this law but the problem is that most don't actually seem to honor the law because it's so old. There's been more online discussion on it now with Reddit, but the common knowledge seems to be based off of my guide, which concluded that it's only actually possible for Denmark and Poland.
There's been a pretty big update thanks to u/david8840, who took the time to email every country with a bilateral agreement. It took him 35+ emails over the course of 2 months. I also spent 20+ hours researching this prior and writing up a guide to share on Reddit. We wanted to share this new and updated info with the travel community.
He was able to get confirmation that the bilateral agreements may be used from the following countries:
- Denmark (You don't need to fly from a non-Schengen area. More details here)
- Poland
- Portugal
- Belgium
- Netherlands
- Norway
- Italy
- Latvia
- Hungary
- France* (They confirmed its validity but said the border guards have sole discretion to apply it or not.)
Notes:
Spain: does not seem to honor the bilateral agreement. More details here
This is for US citizens, but I'm sure it's similar if you're from a different country. As long as you know the bilateral agreement exists, then these are the countries that honor it.
This is 9 countries (excluding France) total, which is a lot more countries than what most of us thought previously (only possible in 2 countries: Denmark and Poland).
November 2023 ETIAS:
In November 2023, everyone traveling to Europe will need to have a travel authorization called ETIAS. The ETIAS will cost 7€ for applicants over 18.
This is really good news! For only 7€, we can still enter Europe but now they are more clear on the bilateral agreement rules. In November 2023, most countries should be honoring the agreement:
https://www.etiasvisa.com/etias-news/eu-bilateral-visa-waiver-agreements
For US citizens specifically: https://www.etiasvisa.com/etias-requirements/americans
Bilateral agreements between the US and EU:
- Belgium - 3 months
- Denmark - 3 months
- Spain - 90 days
- France - 90 days
- Italy - 3 months
- Latvia - 90 days in any half-year period
- Hungary - 90 days
- The Netherlands - 90 days
- Norway - 90 days
- Portugal - 60 days
An easier way:
An easier way to get around this 90-day Schengen limit is to just spend 90 days in a Non-Schengen area and then come back. You can go to Non-Schengen areas like the UK/ Ireland, Balkans, Turkey, Georgia, Cyprus, or African countries like Morocco or Egypt. But the Bilateral Agreement hack helps you extend it further. You can spend 90 days in Schengen, then 90 days in a bilateral agreement country, and then 90 days in Non-Schengen. This way you get 180 days in Schengen, 90 days in Non-Schengen, and you can repeat.
Other alternatives to stay past 90 days in Schengen:
Nomadic Matt's blog: this is where I first heard about the bilateral agreement 'hack' but he goes over other alternatives as well.
Edit:
FAQ:
- Let’s say I do this for 180 days, to reset the “Schengen clock” do I have to wait for 180 days or 90 days?
- 90 days
- Can I spend 90 days in one of these EU countries and then spend 90 days traveling through the EU afterwards?
- No, I don't think you can. This only works one way: 90 days in EU and then 90 days in the EU country.once.
- So theoretically, could one stay in let's say Italy for 180 days?
- Generally, no. You can only stay in 1 country for 90 days. You will have to spend the other 90 days in different Schegen countries prior.
I have received conflicting answers about this. The Italian embassy in New Zealand has published a statement which makes it perfectly clear that New Zealand citizens can stay 180 days in a row in Italy by combining the bilateral agreement with the regular 90 day limit. However the information they provide to US citizens is that they cannot combine the two to stay 180 days, even though the language of the bilateral agreement is basically the same. u/david8840
- Can I stack the bilateral agreements? Do 90 days in Schengen, then 90 days in 1 bilateral agreement, country, then another 90 days in another bilateral agreement country? Update:
If you spend 90 days in Schengen (any country) followed by another 90 days in a bilateral agreement country, then you must leave Schengen OR go directly to a different bilateral agreement country. The bilateral agreements work in isolation like that, because when they were created there was no Schengen. They are not in any way interdependent on each other or on your regular Schengen counter. If you use a bilateral agreement it doesn't matter how many days are on your regular Schengen counter, and it also doesn't matter it you just finished using a different bilateral agreement. So actually it is possible to stay in Schengen an infinite amount of time, IF you limit your travels to these 11 countries with bilateral agreements and move on to a different one every 90 days. In fact, many US citizens living in Hungary and Poland for years make "border runs" every 90 days to get a fresh 90 day stay. u/david8840
Although it seems safe to use the bilateral agreement hack in the countries listed above from what their embassies said in the email and anecdotal evidence of people successfully trying it, it is always best to get confirmation by doing your own research and contacting the country’s embassy yourself.
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u/avonva Oct 05 '22
Thank you so much for both your efforts! This was exactly what I needed. How would I request to stay at a EU country listed above using the bilateral agreement? Do i show up at the airport? Go to the police station? Request for it online?
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u/hardcore-self-help Oct 05 '22
The best part is that you don't need to do anything (as a US citizen and most Western countries). No need to do anything extra in the airport, police station, or online. For Denmark, I just showed up at the airport and at the Schengen control explained to them that I used the bilateral agreement to stay another 90 days and got to leave.
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u/avonva Oct 05 '22
Oh wow. So you just tell them (I’m assuming you are a US citizen) when you are leaving the Schengen country (after you spent another 90days there)? So i only need to explain to them when I am leaving ? If they ask me before should I explain this to them?
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u/smohyee Mar 24 '23
Don't even tell them. It invites risk. I didn't tell anyone unless asked, and I was never asked.
Just show up like you've no concern about exceeding any stay limit. Answer their questions honestly but with the least information needed.
They will likely stamp you with no questions asked.
The first time to even mention 'bilateral agreement' is when the border guard is directly stating a concern that you've exceeded your legal stay.
I've done it 3 times now and it's never come up.
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u/david8840 Oct 06 '22
You don't need to apply or ask to use the bilateral agreements. However you do need to print out some sort of documentation about the agreement in case you encounter a border guard who has never heard of it.
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u/hardcore-self-help Oct 05 '22 edited Oct 06 '22
A couple more things to note.
And to anyone teling me that it's not a "hack" since it's an existing EU law:
It's technically not a hack since it's part of the law. It's a hack in the sense that it challenges most people's presumptions that you can't stay past 90 days in the Schengen area. I included a clickbaity "hack" in the title so it gets more engagement and visibility, especially to help anyone in the future come across this post, saving them from the many hours of research that it took me.
Edit: Moved most of these to the FAQ section of my OP.
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Oct 05 '22
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u/hardcore-self-help Oct 05 '22
No, because you get your passport stamped every time you enter/ exit the Schengen area. So you can spend 180 days with this bilateral agreement, but then you need to exit. If you have 270+ days within the Schengen area, then you will face trouble when exiting the Schengen area since you overstayed your visa. It can get you banned from the EU, depending on what country you exit from.
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Oct 05 '22
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u/hardcore-self-help Oct 05 '22
Exactly, I think the bilateral agreements were signed around the 1990's if I'm not mistaken.
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u/david8840 Oct 06 '22
I don't think that is correct. If you exit from a country which has a bilateral agreement, and at the time you exit it has been less than 90 days since you entered that country (evidenced by a stamp OR hotel/transportation receipt) then it shouldn't be a problem if you have been in Schengen for more than 6 months.
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u/hardcore-self-help Oct 06 '22
it shouldn't be a problem if you have been in Schengen for more than 6 months.
Can you explain this? Why isn't it a problem if you spend over 180 days in Schengen? I thought you had to exit after 90 days in Schengen and 90 days in your bilateral agreement country.
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u/david8840 Oct 06 '22
Normally, when not using any bilateral agreements, one can only stay 90 days in Schengen, not 180.
If you are using the bilateral agreements, then you can stay in Schengen indefinitely. For example 3 months in any country, then 3 Denmark, 3 Poland, 3 Italy, 3 Denmark etc. However you would need to keep some record and proof of your movements and copies of the bilateral agreements, so that when you finally exit Schengen (must be via a country with a bilateral agreement) you can explain to the border guard that you didn't overstay, but rather utilized multiple bilateral agreements.
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u/darkmatterhunter academic nomad Oct 05 '22
Don’t you think people would search “bilateral agreement” and not “hack” though if they’re looking for past threads? It’s just semantics, but I don’t think it adds anything to the title imo because it’s already very informative.
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u/hardcore-self-help Oct 05 '22
Okay that's fair, although I wrote "bilateral agreement hack" so if they used Google to search Reddit posts, then it should come up fine.
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u/buffalo_Fart Oct 05 '22
You could stay around 5 years in Sweden by applying for a residential Visa instead of staying there on your tourist visa. I did it to stay an extra month with a woman I met. Cost 120 bucks 5 years ago. She was my sponsor and I had to have at least 10k in the bank. The loophole was, once applied for the backlog is about 5 years according to the immigration office. The catch was if they voted against you which they usually did you had 24 hours to leave the country and Sweden's a pain in the ass to leave quickly.
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u/TricolourGem Oct 05 '22 edited Oct 05 '22
Sorry, your convenient loophole takes 5 years? Some countries hand out citizenship in less time, lol
Or the part that's missing is you can stay there while your application is stuck in the review process?
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u/a_mulher Oct 06 '22
Are you allowed to work while you wait? And what are the requirements for the sponsor?
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u/buffalo_Fart Oct 06 '22
Got to go to the the office of immigration with your sponsor. You had to show them proof of a bank account and your passport. Then you had to get a mini interview which I bombed but I didn't really care because I was only staying for a month. The sponsor has to be a swedish person obviously and they have to have a job. You can't work legally in Sweden but I'm sure if you were say a digital nomad you could get away with it. I'm not sure about State healthcare. You can go to the doctor but you have to pay for it, that's what I'm thinking.
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u/claud_ma Oct 05 '22
So theoretically, could one stay in let's say Italy for 180 days?
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u/hardcore-self-help Oct 05 '22
I'm not sure which countries require you to fly in from a non-Schengen country so you get a stamp and they have a date so you don't stay past 90 days. I just know Poland does require that and Denmark doesn't. Not sure about Italy.
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u/david8840 Oct 06 '22
I have received conflicting answers about this. The Italian embassy in New Zealand has published a statement which makes it perfectly clear that New Zealand citizens can stay 180 days in a row in Italy by combining the bilateral agreement with the regular 90 day limit. However the information they provide to US citizens is that they cannot combine the two to stay 180 days, even though the language of the bilateral agreement is basically the same.
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u/lookthepenguins Oct 05 '22
Great work guys, super interesting! I wonder if that would apply for Aussies too.... It’s a DANGED long way for us to just go back ‘home’ for a few months before another return...
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u/FuckYeahCarbs Oct 05 '22
There is! Smart traveller has a list of the places we have a bilateral visa waiver with
https://www.smartraveller.gov.au/before-you-go/the-basics/schengen#bilateral
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u/crackanape Oct 05 '22
Australia and NZ each have their own sets of countries where it works.
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u/Tortoiseshell007 Oct 05 '22
Do you know the NZ countries where it works?
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u/JacobAldridge Married, Father, Aspiring Nomad. Both Solo and Family Traveller Oct 06 '22
It's in OP's second-to-last link, the ETIAS one - has sections for each of Australia and NZ.
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Oct 05 '22
Australians get 180 days Schengen and 180days UK plus there’s working holiday visas
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u/TricolourGem Oct 05 '22
Couple Qs:
Do you normally have to spend 90 days outside the Shengen zone to renew your visa, unlike SE Asia where you could literally do a return trip the same day?
You state you can't travel for the 2nd 90-day period from your target country, but isn't the point of Shengen to be borderless? I mean I took a bus that drove through a couple countries and at no point was my passport checked.
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u/hardcore-self-help Oct 05 '22
- Yes, you have to spend 90 days outside the Schengen area for your clock to reset.
- Yes, Schengen is borderless. It’s about the passport stamp. Countries like Poland need you to fly from Non-Schengen into Poland so you get a stamp and they know you haven’t overstayed your 90 days there in Poland. Whereas Denmark didn’t care and took my word that I spent 90 days there and 90 days in other Schengen countries.
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u/wanderingdev Fully time since 2008 - based in Europe now. Oct 05 '22
Fwiw, I know q couple who entered Poland overland and dis it no problem. They got gas right at the border and kept their receipts to prove the day they entered Poland. But, I think it's better to just fly in from a non schengen country to avoid the potential hassle.
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u/hardcore-self-help Oct 05 '22
Okay good to know. I guess it could work if you're driving in there. I'm using the bilateral agreement this year for Poland and just flying in from non-schengen to avoid the potential hassle but flights are like $100 more since it's hard to find cheap flights from East Europe. The budget airlines to Poland usually leave from Budapest, Prague, or Vienna.
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u/wanderingdev Fully time since 2008 - based in Europe now. Oct 05 '22
fwiw, a couple years ago i got a flight from malmo to gdansk for $8. :)
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u/generall_ Oct 06 '22
Thank you so much for this! Bookmarked it.
I do have a question: Let’s say I do this for 180 days, do I then need to only spend 90 days in a non-Schengen country and then I’m able to do it again for another 180 days and repeat?
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u/Peripatetic_Virgo Oct 07 '22
Thanks so much! I had no idea about the bilateral agreement. Good thing I finally joined Reddit! I've been traveling to Europe for 30yrs and as a full time nomadic pet sitter for almost 5 yrs, have been using the Schengen Visa calculator religiously. Had I known about this sooner, could've stayed in Denmark way longer - the country I feel most at home.
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u/okstopitman Oct 27 '22
Hey,
Say I've entered through France and travelled around the Schengen for 90 days, after the 90 days have passed, could I continue to stay in France for another 90 days and upon departure I explain the bilateral waiver agreement. Or must I leave France after 90 days and go to the UK for example and then return and try to prove the bilateral waiver agreement at entry like you have explained for Poland?
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u/Sea_Particular1393 Nov 06 '22
@david8840 do you have these official confirmations in a link/shareable document? Thanks!
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u/r-bitcoin Oct 13 '23
But do we need to ask for "permission" first?
"The non-EU citizen should ask for permission to stay in the country longer."
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u/nomadicjulien Mar 21 '24
It worked twice for me with my Canadian passport.
Sweden : I overstayed my schengen time by 2 weeks in Sweden and I showed them my paper of the Eu documents and the treaty from Canada treaty and it went all good after they analyzed documents for 5 minutes.
Italy : I also just left Italy by overstaying the Schengen time by around 50 days and they didn’t stopped me at all. Ive been able to use the automated passport check and got stamped by the agent. They didn’t look at my documents even if I had them with me. One of my guest is that all my time in Sweden got deleted when I showed them my documents.
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u/No-Chip5390 Aug 23 '24
Hi your information is so useful, I am planing to stay in italy for sometime after my shengen time runs out. what kind of EU documents do you have to prove the boarder controls. thank you so much
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u/Big-Exam-259 Mar 24 '24
I wonder if I could enter with my passport A and leave and Re-enter with my passport B for another 90 days. Is it tied to the passport the 90 days?
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u/Key-Let8610 Jan 06 '25
Did you ever get an answer to this? I'm wondering the same thing.
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u/Big-Exam-259 Jan 06 '25
Yes, you cannot it is tied to your Bios. They know
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u/Key-Let8610 Jan 06 '25
Thank you. Just trying to figure out how to stay in italy for 94 days while going to other countries on weekends. Thanks again.
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u/Big-Exam-259 Jan 06 '25
Remember it is a rolling 90 days
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u/Key-Let8610 Jan 07 '25
Like I have to remain in italy the full 90 days and can't travel elsewhere?
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u/Master-Appearance277 Sep 02 '24
Be aware that with the EES things may change in the way it is done (while still being possible) :
https://www.eumonitor.eu/9353000/1/j4nvhdfcs8bljza_j9vvik7m1c3gyxp/vk31g2jnskz5
See article 60 (Article 20 being replaced)
It seems it will be "upon request of the alien" now (so not automatic anymore ? need to wait the application [also every country will have their way of doing it I guess :/ ])... ?
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u/boarding_llamas Feb 07 '25
If you keep reading the insertions into Article 20, after the language you quote about "upon request of the alien", it says:
"Where the alien has not lodged a request during the 90-day stay in any 180-day period, his or her stay may be extended pursuant to a bilateral agreement concluded by a Contracting Party and his or her stay beyond the 90-day stay in any 180-day period preceding that extension may be presumed lawful by the competent authorities of that Contracting Party, provided that that alien presents credible evidence which proves that during that time he or she stayed only on the territory of that Contracting Party."
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u/PseudonymousMaximus Mar 26 '24
I presume all of these apply to U.S. citizens. Are they similar for Canadian citizens?
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u/Ready_Invite_2163 May 16 '24
Anyone have experience with doing the bilateral agreement for Hungary?
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u/hardcore-self-help May 16 '24
I heard Hungary has the unlimited visa runs. You just leave the country and re-enter ASAP every 90 days. I did it for Poland and many of my friends also do it as US citizens. Not completely sure about Hungary though.
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u/Connoisseur777 May 22 '24
Just to be precise, when you say leave and re-enter, you're talking about leaving both Poland AND Schengen, right? To that end, which (non-Schengen) country do you find cheapest for Poland visa runs?
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u/Objective_Duty_4040 May 20 '24
Just wanted to comment on this thread for exact information (I haven't looked at all the comments to see if someone has already said this).
To stay extra 90 days in a bilateral agreement country you must stay there and leave from there, or else the other schengen country that you fly from out of schengen can look at this as you have overstayed 90 days in schengen. In addition, look at the agreement carefully where you are going to use your extra days because every country has different rules and maximum days allowed to stay. Also it depends on the country of origin which schengen countries have an agreement and how long that foreign traveler is allowed to stay.
Most countries want you to inform and apply for this extension at their immigration office,to let them know that you want to use your 90 days. Some countries don't need you to apply. They will give you all the necessary documents for the allowance of these extra days. It is important to know that if they haven't yet accepted the application and your 90 days are up,to leave so you won't overstay. Therefore it ia best to apply with good enough advance so it will be approved befoee your initial 90 days are up. You can be asked for proof that you actually used the bilateral agreement and stayed the whole time in that country at the border and now with entry-exit taking effect your movements are monitored and border security in scehngen is stricter
You can stay in one country the total of 180 days with the agreement, don't have to travel to another country to do so. Again, you must travel out of schengen from that country
The Nordics have a special agreement for this where you can stay in all of the Nordic countries using the extra 90 days (or the days sllowed in your bilateralagreement) (for example, 20 in Iceland, 30 in Denmark, 10 in Finland and 30 in Norway). You might ve aaked to proof that you were in fact only in the Nordics and have to leave schengen from there.
In addition, the extra days you stay with your bilateral agreement do not count as the 90 days you are out of schengen as if you would only stay 90 days. Therefore when you leave after the days of the agreement is over, you will have to wait the time needed out of Schengen to be able to re-enter, or 90 days. You can not go to another Schengen country after this day and start all over again. You must leave the schengen country you stay longer in
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u/Ok_Conflict_6012 Jul 15 '24
Thx for all your info!! I am planning on using the bilateral agreement days in Hungary after mid august when my schengen days are up, but have a trip to iceland planned late september I'm hoping I can do too. I am curious where you have found the info on the nordic countries special agreement? I can't seem to find it but that would solve my problem! Thanks!
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u/Friendly-Cause-8454 Nov 04 '24
Can i stay in Norway for 180 days straight or Denmark for 180 days straight ?
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u/Smart-Guess6268 Jun 07 '24
Not sure if anyone else has posted this link (and too many posts for me to carefully look through), but it is an official EU website with specific information on countries with bilateral agreements allowing stays beyond the Schengen 90/180 rule.Bilateral Agreements
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u/AdSame1947 Nov 01 '24
Just to let you know, you cant rely on this document since not all countries following them unfortunately.
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u/NumerousRelease9887 Nov 02 '24
I got the info from an attorney in Budapest. There are only a few EU countries that have this bilateral agreement, but Hungary/US is one that does. It is best to download/print in Magyar/English just in case someone questions it at the border.It does not include all Schengen countries. You can't leave Hungary through a Schengen country after the initial 3 months are up. You must leave through Serbia or fly directly out of the Schengen area.
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u/SeatFar3690 Jan 16 '25
Hi,
Thanks for this post, for clarification(I’m in Budapest), my 90 schengen days are up in about 2 weeks, do I need to leave Hungary and then come back, or can I start my additional 90 days right away? I was thinking of a run to Albania…
Thanks
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u/NumerousRelease9887 Jan 16 '25
My understanding from the attorney that I spoke with is that you are fine in Hungary for 180 days, but you are NOT free to go to/through other Schengen countries after the initial 90 days are up. You should be able to travel to Albania, but only if not going through a Schengen country. Be prepared to show the documents regarding the bilateral agreement (preferably in Hungarian) in case questioned. My last visit to Hungary was for only 2 months so I didn't have to deal with it. My next trip is for 6 months, and I intend to just stay in Hungary after the 90 days is up and fly out through London when I eventually leave. I normally fly through Munich, but that would be asking for trouble.
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u/SeatFar3690 Jan 16 '25
Thanks for the quick reply-
So the only reason to go to Albania was to reset the 90 day clock so to speak. If we don’t need to do that, we will likely just, fortunately Budapest to Tirana is direct and fairly cheap.
It sounds like what you’re saying is there is no reason to even go to Albania, as we have not started our ”second” 90 days, we can simply stay in Hungary for 90 additional days, or until we are ready to leave, whichever ones first?
Thanks
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u/SeatFar3690 Jan 16 '25
BTW do you have a copy of the docs?
Thanks!
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u/NumerousRelease9887 Feb 10 '25
Here is another reference. You may have to register/ log in to see everything. Publications Office of the European Union
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u/SeatFar3690 Feb 10 '25
Hey, yea so we are now in our “90 days of bilateral agreement”, my lawyer went to immigration and point blank asked how it works:
Yes we can stay in Hungary, no we don’t have to leave an come back transitioning from Schengen to bilateral agreement.
After 90 days of bilateral agreement, we need to leave Hungary, but can come right back(cannot remember if need to leave Schengen).
During bilateral 90 days cannot travel to other Schengen countries officially as far as Hungary is concerned though many other EU countries have their own bilateral agreements(this is not under HU’s preview).
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u/NumerousRelease9887 Feb 11 '25
So you are supposed to use the bilateral agreement first and then the Schengen 90/180 rule? I thought it was the opposite. I'll definitely check back with you in another 6 months! I had hoped to be going back to Hungary in March, but my 93 year old father probably has only a few months left, and I have an "ancient" cat that will be 22 years old in April. I'm guessing it will be summer before I leave. I was in Budapest for 2 months last summer and am anxious to return.
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u/SeatFar3690 Mar 04 '25
No, you expire your Schengen 90 first(in any EU/Schengen country) then you continue “into” the 90 days bilateral agreement. After that 90 days the Schengen 180 will expire and you leave and come back…
That is what I have been told.
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u/openatlas Jun 11 '24
If anyone sees this — if you stay 90 days in Schengen, leave to a non Schengen area for a few days. Then re-enter back into a Schengen area with a Bilateral agreement (ie Nordics/Belgium/etc), and receive an additional 90 days. Can you move around Schengen in that extra 90 days? Given there is no strict border control? Just ensuring you do finally leave from the chosen bilateral country at the time of 90 days? Would this work??
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u/drsilverpepsi Jun 30 '24
If you want to break the law, of course it will work as long as you don't get caught.
The question is, the entire point of these agreements is to be able to stay longer LEGALLY. If you want to be an illegal, you already could do that by just overstaying.
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u/boarding_llamas Feb 07 '25
Practically speaking, you could probably do this without issue, BUT it is illegal and if caught outside the country with the bilateral agreement after your initial 90-day tourist visa period you could face deportation and restrictions on future entry into the Schengen area.
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u/happydaze27 Jun 20 '24
Hi! Quick question here- I just spent the last 90 days studying abroad in Sweden under a tourist visa, and was informed I won a trip to Italy in August. I am now back in the US and hoping I could use the bilateral agreement when I land in Italy. Is this possible? I see that Italy has an agreement of 3 months. Any advice would be much appreciated
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u/drsilverpepsi Jun 30 '24
The agreement exists, whether or not they'll let you use it may be a matter of luck. You have to contact the embassy or consulate. If they write you in an email that it is "ok" then you can try to use the email at the border to be allowed in, it should help a lot
Mind you you have to be ABSOLUTELY SURE you are flying direct, you cannot touch down anywhere else
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u/No-Chip5390 Sep 02 '24
hi did you contact the italian ambassy at last, I was trying to visit italy for three weeks at the end of my shengen time, I am wondering
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u/Professional-Wafer-2 Jul 31 '24 edited Jul 31 '24
Question on my situation. I'll spend 90 days in Spain, Italy, and France (in that order) and return to Spain to use the bilateral agreement for about 80 more days. I need to travel to the USA during the 80 bilateral agreement period for about a week. If I fly directly out of Spain to the US and directly back into Spain, will I be good to go? Or does this reset something and I won't be able to return to Spain? Thanks for the help! P.s. I'm from the USA.
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u/ignorantjellybean Aug 08 '24
It seems you are quite an authority on this topic, and as a stranger from Australia, I'd greatly appreciate your insight. I have DM'd you, but I thought I might have a better shot if I write to you on here.
My questions, your insight says, that travelling from either non shengen, or from other shengen countries with a bilateral agreement, that I will be able to 'stack' bilateral agreements so to speak. Is that correct? ie. go from germany, to italy, to spain, all hopping via a bilateral agreement.
What about if after doing the 90 on Shengen, and then doing 30 days with bilateral agreements in the Nordic countries, before heading to UK/Ireland for 60 days, and then I headed back to Europe? Would I be able to enter on Bilateral agreements or would too much time have surpassed, or would it be the 90 days shengen floating under the radar with the use of 30 days of bilateral and 60 days outside of shengen?
If it I do have to use the Bilateral to renter, would I then hypothetically need to leave Shengen for another 30 days to get back onto the Shengen Visa, or would my 90 days having to be outside of Shengen restart?
Can the bilateral agreement only be used after the shengen has expired, or before?
In your experience, did you get prior approval specifically, or do you just cite the link posted that shows the legislation on an offical EU website?
Would you potentially provide for me, the written confirmation from consulates that confirmed their use of the bilateral agreement, and information on them allowing to enter from another country on a bilatral agreement while being over the traditional 90? (Understand that might be a big ask)
Context: My fiance and I are travelling on Shengen Visa 90 days starting December 2024, then planning to enter Nordic Countries for a further 30 days on Bilateral (Denmark, Sweden, Norway -- you've mentioned them being on a bloc and allowing this kind of thing), then leaving to the UK/Ireland for two months, (this is the tricky part of the scenario) -- we were planning to go back into Italy in June (Our original plan was that this would reset our Schengen, being 6 months from our original arrival, but now I've seen that bilateral doesn't necessarily reset and we could have 30 days left on our gap). We plan to spend the month in Italy, then take road transport across the border into the South of France for a month (no bilateral agreement exists with Australia for France to my knowledge), then our plan was onward to Spain and Portugal for another Month, each supposedly having Bilateral agreements.
Question is, would our Shengen reset coming back in, or would we have to rely on bilateral agreements? I do hold a New Zealand and Australian passport, so i could always try and interchange these strategically at the right countries but I know the Entry Exit System being introduced later this year would likely make this impossible, but might solve issue for France. Obviously if our Shengen is seen as reset, then we will have no issue. Your insight is greatly appreciated.
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u/NormalRock4739 Aug 24 '24
I had heard anecdotally that if you are in a Schengen country and contact the immigration office for an appointment for the extension, your Schengen 90-day countdown is paused until your interview and approval or denial is decided. I haven't found any documentation to back this claim up...anybody here know if there's any validity to this?
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u/seunghunlee1 Sep 09 '24
Official doucments for additional 90 day stay in Europe
list of bilateral agreements in EU
https://op.europa.eu/en/publication-detail/-/publication/c067e92d-5a8b-11e9-9151-01aa75ed71a1
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u/Bright_Inside2759 Oct 29 '24
For anyone who uses the bilateral visa
Im looking to try and use it when visiting Slovakia
How does the reset happen ?
And if I need to show any proof where do I go? Should it be done through Vienna airport or do I need to visit the foreign police ?
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u/RacistTraveller Dec 15 '24
ETIASVisa.com is an informative website and does not belong to, nor is it affiliated, with the European Union.
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u/monosuave Oct 05 '22
Thanks for the info! But the "only for US citizens" should have been in the title or among the first phrases of the post
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u/hardcore-self-help Oct 05 '22
Definitely, I forgot to post that upfront, but many countries have EU bilateral agreements like Australia, Canada, Chile, Israel, Japan, Malaysia, New Zealand, Singapore, and South Korea. The countries I listed are specifically for US citizens, but your specific country may have a similar list.
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Oct 05 '22 edited Oct 05 '22
You are massively over complicating this. If you’re American and under 35 just get a working holiday visa.
Boom 1 - 2 years. No working required.
Edit: American and under 30 get an Irish WHV… most modern liberal democracies have a pretty decent number of WHV arrangements but sucks to be American
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u/hardcore-self-help Oct 05 '22
Yeah but it's between $200 and $400 usually, and you have to go through the visa process. My method doesn't require any additional paper/ visa work (depending on your citizenship).
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Oct 05 '22 edited Oct 05 '22
- Most working holiday visas are like one form and 1 hour of effort…. But it’s… easier… to spend 20 hours figuring this scheme out. With no guarantee they’ll admit you on the bilateral agreement anyway? Ok.
- Who’s WHV is USD400??
- And how much more are you going to spend bouncing between countries to try and “hack” the system
1.1 How do you transfer between bilateral and Schengen when inside a country? If you go through immigration and they register you as in the Schengen area you’re on Schengen time. If you only get bilateral registered you’re going to have to personally re register through an immigration system no longer designed to accomodate this which is probably going to be a major headache. Unless your plan is to just overstay and then argue with border guards… which sure that sounds SO much simpler and easier than just getting a visa (sarcasm alert) and TOTALLY doesn’t risk a stay in a detention facility.
And the cost of getting this weirdly complicated hack wrong is being deported. And not back to the nearest friendly country but to your home nation. On the next flight. Paying all of the costs yourself flight, detention etc which can be tens of thousands of dollars, AND never being eligible for visa free ever again.
Totally sounds worth it
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u/hardcore-self-help Oct 05 '22
Just to clarify, the bilateral agreement method does not involve any additional paper or online work. You don’t need to register for the bilateral agreement. It’s not weirdly complicated since I already spent the 20 hours researching it and made it into a simple guide.
I agree that working holiday visas are another good option. I originally got these solutions to stay past 90 days in Schengen from Nomadic Matt’s blog, he mentioned both options.
There is no better option, just better options based on the specific individual and their needs. The downside of the bilateral agreement method is that it just gives you just 180 days and then you still need to wait 90 days outside to reset the clock. If you want to stay in Europe for longer, working holidays are better. If you’re a RTW backpacker like me and on a budget, then 180 days with the bilateral agreement method could be enough.
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u/MONSTERTACO Oct 05 '22 edited Oct 05 '22
Americans don't get WHVs in Europe (other than the Irish one which is college students only) and none of them are for people over 30...
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Oct 05 '22 edited Oct 05 '22
Last time I checked Ireland is in Europe.
And Canadas age limit is 35.
But man! Sucks to be American. You only have 6 countries to choose from. Australia has like 30 and a bunch are for up to 35. I wonder why that is?
Edit: good job editing your comment to make yourself look less ignorant
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u/MONSTERTACO Oct 06 '22
If you’re American and under 35 just get a working holiday visa.
This is a factually incorrect statement, so let's not be so sanctimonious about ignorance.
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Oct 06 '22 edited Oct 06 '22
Which is why I corrrected it.
But last time I checked Ireland is in Europe.
Let me just double check… yep still in Europe
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u/StopUsingThisWebsite Oct 05 '22
Don't know where you get that info from. Do you have a source? That may be true for Canadians, but for US citizens it doesn't seem to be.
According to https://twomonkeystravelgroup.com/guide-working-holiday-visa-europe/
Only Ireland and Portugal have working holiday visas, both require you to be a student or recently graduated (according to their embassy websites.)
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u/clitorides Oct 05 '22
There is a blogpost (NZ specific) that lists all the countries and which includes confirmations of validity. If I recall right Italy does NOT consider it valid, and it is dubious in Switzerland. I am unsure if that would also apply in relation to other countries eg US-Italy
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u/wasporchidlouixse Oct 05 '22
Amazing work! Could you clarify for me - if I spent 90 days in France then 90 days in Latvia could I then go spend 90 days in Italy? Is it a maximum of twice I can stay 90 days for?
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u/hardcore-self-help Oct 05 '22
Nope, 180 days max. Then you have to exit Schengen zone for 90 days.
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u/david8840 Oct 06 '22
I don't think that's true, as long as they exit from Italy and have proof that they were in Italy for less than 90 days it should be fine.
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u/IwantAway Oct 06 '22
Thanks for putting this together! I've heard about them but not enough to be comfortable.
but now they are more clear on the bilateral agreement rules. In November 2023, most countries should be honoringthe agreement
So you know if there is an official source for this? The linked website isn't official from the EU or member states, AFAIK.
Do you have to not spend time in the specific country during the first 90 days, or could someone spend 6 months in one of these countries, essentially?
An important note, I believe, is that your flight/travel plans leaving from the bilateral agreement country can't stop in any other country within the Schengen Zone. I think that's something people could easily mess up with layovers.
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u/hardcore-self-help Oct 06 '22
You're actually right that the linked website isn't official. I may have to be fact checked here, but I assumed the bilateral agreement laws will be more clear once ETIAS pass in Nov 2023, but my assumption could be wrong.
Generally 90 days, not 180 days. I updated my OP to include FAQs.
This is from my older guide:
Entering Schengen area as transit passenger:
After doing this, you will have used up all 90 Schengen days. Can you still enter the Schengen area just as a transit passenger to get back to the US?
Flying directly from Denmark to the US was expensive. There were cheap flights to the US from Portugal, Spain, Paris, Amsterdam, etc. I could not find any info on this online because it’s such an outlier case.
Most of the responses told me it’s not worth the risk. However, when I called the Denmark immigration services, they said it should be fine, I just need to call the specific country to check if I can. I didn’t want to risk it so I flew from Copenhagen to Dublin, and then Dublin back to the US. Flights were pretty cheap. If you also travel hack, you can get flights for around 30k miles. However, it may be possible if you actually call the specific country you are flying out of as a transit passenger.
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u/Ordinance85 Oct 06 '22
I spend a lot of time in Norway, always 90 days....
So I can stay there for 180 if I just remind them of the bilateral agreement.
How does this work for returning though? I have to be out of the country for 180 days now? Or just the Schengen 90 days and I can return?
Also, thank you so much for this information!
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u/david8840 Oct 06 '22
You can definitely spend 90 days in Norway after having already spent 90 in another Schengen country. However do not assume you can combine the two options to stay a continuous 180 days in Norway. Write to the embassy first if this is your plan.
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u/bravo4 Mar 05 '23
I’d love to understand this about Norway as well. I’ll try to find embassy contacts and see if I can get an answer and post here.
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u/hardcore-self-help Oct 06 '22
But Norway you may only be there for 90 days. So check if they require you to fly in from a non-schengen country to prove that you haven't been in that specific country past 90 days. When returning, you have to wait 90 days, not 180 days.
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u/SirBigRichard Oct 08 '22
Schengen Area (area comprising 26 European countries that have officially abolished all passport and all other types of border control at their mutual borders):
- Austria
- Belgium
- Czech Republic
- Denmark
- Estonia
- Finland
- France
- Germany
- Greece
- Hungary
- Iceland
- Italy
- Latvia
- Liechtenstein
- Lithuania
- Luxembourg
- Malta
- Netherlands
- Norway
- Poland
- Portugal
- Slovakia
- Slovenia
- Spain
- Sweden
- Switzerland
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u/Charming-Flight2153 Oct 18 '22
Hi! I’ve stayed almost 90 days in Greece and I was thinking I’d need to fly out to a non Schengen country after my 90 days was up and spend 90 days out of the zone before returning. However, as an Australian with the bi lateral agreements in place, could I spend 90 days in Greece, travel to the Netherlands on the bi lateral agreement for 90days and then need to leave the Schengen zone? Would i be able to spend 90 days in each of the bi lateral agreement countries consecutively? I.e after 90 days in Greece, 90 days in Netherlands and then 90 days in France? Thanks so much
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u/1CarefulOwner-NotMe Oct 28 '22
I cannot find any information online about a bilateral agreement between the Netherlands and UK.
I am from the uk, I have used up (bar 4 days) my 90 day allowance, currently back in the UK. Can I fly back to the Netherlands under the bilateral agreement? If so, how?
Would be really grateful for an answer, thanks.
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u/hardcore-self-help Oct 28 '22
I think so. I don’t know specifically about Netherlands since I never tried it, but it should work for those Schengen countries with the bilateral agreement.
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u/Remarkable_Story7169 Nov 01 '22
Sooo technically since I just return to my home country (Singapore) and spent around 84 out of the 90 days in Europe in the last 180 days. I can technically fly into Norway via a connecting flight through Germany using the remaining 6 days and continue spending 90 days afterwards in Norway based on the bilateral agreement and when I eventually leave Norway, I just mention about the agreement when I am at the custom?
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u/Individual-Pause8195 Nov 04 '22
Wow thanks so much man, this is super helpful!
Just wondering do you have any knowledge at all (from research or talking to others about it) whether bilateral agreements between these countries and Australia is pretty similar? Also just wondering, do you know if these bilateral agreements are stackable? I.e I spent my 90 days in Schengen, then I subsequently do 5 days in Italy using BVW and then 6 days in Norway straight after Italy also using the BVW?
Thanks so much!
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u/Sea_Particular1393 Nov 06 '22
I asked in a different thread about stacking but wanted to do it here as well. Can you stack these bilateral treaties to go from one with a treaty to another indefinitely? I would think so and you are not running afoul or the rules. Any thoughts?
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u/hardcore-self-help Nov 07 '22
No. You have to leave the Schengen area after you use the bilateral agreement once.
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u/drsilverpepsi Jun 30 '24
Your comment literally contradicts the legal text of the bilateral agreements which make no reference to the existence of whatever other random countries
Can you seriously imagine the French law that says "Americans may stay 90 day" says "as long as they weren't previously in Poland for 90 days past their Schengen limit"? This isn't even coherent - since the Schengen Zone didn't exist
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u/chucklazarus Nov 09 '22
Kudos to you OP, this is a great guide. I just landed in France last week, and am hoping to stay here for the next 5 months. Am I running both my Schengen area clock and my bilateral agreement clock simultaneously right now? I saw on another post if I fly out of Spain/Italy I may not have any problems come the spring. Any testimony one way or the other? TIA
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u/FingerAnxious9724 Nov 15 '22
Okay, a few questions! 1. Wanting solid confirmation that once I hit the 181st day since my first day of arrival in the Schengen zone - that I can now spend another 90 days in the Schengen zone. (Obviously ensuring I’ve only spent 90 days in the 180 day period) 2. If I’m already in a country (Italy) and I didn’t specify that I wanted to utilise the bilateral agreement, do the days I spend in Italy count towards my 90 days in the 180 day period? Or are the 90 days only counted in countries without a bilateral agreement? Love youuuuu pls help
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u/Holiday-Beautiful-47 Nov 23 '22
Hi, I’m a Canadian looking to extend my stay in Hungary via ‘Bilateral Waiver Agreement’. This is the response I got from Hungarian Immigration:
“ Under a bilateral agreement Canadian citizens are entitled to an additional stay of 90 days after the 90 days visa-free stay in the Schengen region, but in this case they can stay only in the territory of Hungary, and they can leave the EU from here. When they leave Hungary (and the Schengen region), the competent police service will check the duration of their stay at the border crossing point. There is no administrative procedure needed to enjoy this additional 90 days period as the Hungarian immigration authorities are aware of the bilateral agreement. “
Can someone please help me interpret this? Does this mean I can just go about my daily business as the agreement takes effect and not have to leave Hungary and back by the end of my Schengen stay?
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u/AdTasty711 Nov 28 '22
Thanks to u/hardcore-self-help & u/david8840 for the comprehensive work on a really helpful post.
I wanted to follow up to see if anyone out there has actually successfully used the bilateral agreement to stay in Portugal for up to 60 extra days? The Portuguese embassy confirmed that the bilateral visa waiver exists and can be used as long as you enter Portugal before your 90 days in the Schengen expire. I just have not been able to confirm with them that no additional steps are required to use it, like having to obtain some kind of extension from Portuguese immigration/SEF or anything, which I’ve read elsewhere is needed in certain cases. So I’m hoping someone here might be able to confirm having successfully used the bilateral agreement to stay in Portugal up to 60 additional days. Please let me know if you have.
The scenario is as follows: I will have spent approximately 85 days elsewhere in the Schengen region immediately prior to arriving in Portugal. Upon arriving in Portugal, I anticipate not having my passport checked as I’ll be arriving from another Schengen country. Then I would stay in Portugal for up to 60 days as permitted by the bilateral visa waiver. And then I would depart from Portugal and the Schengen region no more than 60 days after arriving in Portugal. At immigration upon departure, they’d have no way of knowing when I arrived in Portugal, so I’d bring my travel/accommodations receipt from the dates I arrived and stayed in Portugal. And then the customs officer should clear me to leave, having correctly utilized the bilateral visa waiver between the U.S. and Portugal. That is, as long as the Portuguese custom officers are aware of the bilateral waiver and allow people who use it correctly to depart without any issues. If it’s a situation similar to the situation in France, where it’s up to the customs officers to honor the agreement on a case by case basis, that’s probably not worth the risk for me. So I’m hoping to hear of someone successfully using the bilateral waiver in Portugal and departing without issue.
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u/david8840 Nov 28 '22
You will be fine. You don't have to take any additionally steps. You can PM me if you need a copy of the bilateral agreement or embassy confirmation of its validity.
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u/Big_Cattle9780 Dec 11 '22
Can I stay 90 days in a schengan country on my Canadian passport and then 90 days on my US passport in another schengan country?
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Dec 31 '22
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u/hardcore-self-help Jan 06 '23
Interesting, I may make a follow-up, updated post soon so I can include this as well.
u/david8840, what do you think?
You told me before in my other post:
The US-Spain bilateral visa waiver agreement exists and is still in force. However I wrote to 3 different Spanish consulates and they all are completely incompetent and say that all travellers must abide by the regular 90 day Schengen limit, even after showing them proof that the agreement exists.
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u/david8840 Jan 06 '23
Sounds like the border guard just didn't care. Highly unlikely that he knew about the bilateral agreement.
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u/Medical_Lettuce_3087 Jan 03 '23
I am an American. My fiancé is polish. We have taken steps in order to get married and are currently awaiting to receive a court date. And then marry. However I visit him every year on a US tourist visa (for 90 days)
I just learned that I can leave Poland for one day, go to the UK for a day, then return to Poland.
But my question is, do i have to leave on the 90th day, go to the UK, and then return to Poland?
Or can i leave anytime between now and the 90th day and then "reset" to have another 90 days?
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u/david8840 Jan 06 '23
You can reset it any time, it doesn't have to be the 90th day.
Also it's not a tourist visa, it is visa-free travel.
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u/Economy-Night-2631 Jan 10 '23 edited Jan 10 '23
Among those who have used this 'hack' (or whatever you want to call it) - have you ever been asked to provide proof of your accommodation for the duration of your stay? (either upon arriving or departing)
Obviously one is not meant to then travel to onward countries...but I imagine some have tried, and hence would have thought you might need to have all accommodation proof at hand to show you'll be/have been in the bilateral country the whole time? would love to hear confirmation.
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u/connor_dballard Jan 15 '25
Hey have you received an answer to this? This is also my biggest question. Say I showed proof of a train ticket of entry to Hungary and 1 or 2 days of receipts at a hotel or hostel, would this be enough or are they going to check for the entire stay?
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u/a_n_n_a_banana Jan 13 '23
For US passport holders, I recently emailed and compiled a list of responses I received from either embassies in the US or border agent authorities: https://www.reddit.com/r/digitalnomad/comments/10axkuk/2023_updated_staying_in_schengen_zone_legally/
Basically from OP's list, received confirmation of 90 days extension from Denmark, Poland, Latvia and Hungary.
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u/Sad-Web2513 Feb 04 '23 edited Feb 04 '23
Quick question regarding the ETIAS thing.I'm using the US-Poland bilateral agreement thing to stay indefinitely in Poland. But how will ETIAS effect it? Will I be unable to continue using the agreement, or will I be fine and be able to continue using it? I do the stay nearly 90 days thing, take a one day trip to ukraine and head back to stay another 90 or so days in poland. So far I've done it twice without much issue, though I'm worried that ETIAS may complicate things, or straight up make me unable to do this anymore. And, well, I'm hoping no complications will arise since I'll be applying in Poland, yet my home address is still in the US. Thank you in advance!
Edit: Added more details
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u/hardcore-self-help Feb 04 '23
I'm also doing the US-Poland bilateral agreement one currently, though it doesn't apply to me because ETIAS aren't in effect until May 2023. My guess is that they won't affect the bilateral agreement since that is seperate.
But in the link I had:
https://www.etiasvisa.com/etias-requirements/americans
This one didn't include Poland. I think they just forgot to include it. This is not the official website actually. I think from May 2023, you just need to apply for the ETIAS and then you can still use the Poland bilateral agreement. Just pay €7 and it will last for 3 years. I can't guarantee anything since there's not much information online on bilateral agreements in the first place. If you want confirmation, you can contact the Poland embassy. I think we'd all appreciate if you can post an update here on the information you find.
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u/NoStand5949 Feb 08 '23
Question, as a USA passport holder. I have gone through this thread and it seems no one has asked or answered this questions.
My 90 days in the Schengen is coming up to an end. And I am going to the Balkans for to reset. According to this thread I can invoke the bilateral agreement to extend in a country that accepts mentioned in the thread.
My question is: if I go back into say Denmark and invoke my bilateral agreement I thus will have 90 more days I can use in Denmark. If I then fly from Denmark - UK - to Portugal and invoke my bilateral agreement I then have 90 days as well in Portugal. Does this mean I have to stay in one country at a time for 90 days that accepts or can I travel within the countries that accept my bilateral agree as long as I do not go into a country that does not accept it? If this works correctly in theory I could fly back to Denmark, fly to Portugal, Poland, Norway, Netherlands etc… as long as I do not touch into Schengen. Is this correct? Would I be able to re-enter say Denmark if I spent only 8 days in Denmark and then left to Portugal, spent 10 days in Portugal and then back to Denmark?
The following scenario is a second thought. Technically once your in the Schengen zone your passport is never checked. I went to 18 countries and never had it checked unless I left the zone. In theory I could invoke my bilateral in Denmark which is also Schengen, travel around Schengen, go back to denmark before 90 days and then leave from denmark on my 90 days…. As long as I take public transport I should be fine as I have never had to show my passport while in Schengen on train, bus, or flight.
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u/hardcore-self-help Feb 09 '23
Theoretically, yes. You can keep stacking the bilateral agreements indefinitely to stay in these 11 Schengen countries forever.
Practically, I'm not sure. I've only tested using it once, I never tried stacking it. You will have to get anecdotal evidence from the people who actually have tested stacking it.
Keep in mind that there are internal Schengen passport checks. I know Germany has them. So you're taking a big risk if you go around in public transport and hoping you don't get hit by the internal passport checks.
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u/bravo4 Mar 05 '23
Does anyone have any recent experience with Norway and using the bilateral agreement?
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u/Peripatetic_Virgo Mar 29 '23
Thanks for this very helpful info. I was oblivious about this for the past 30 years I've been traveling to Europe.
I'm a U.S. passport holder, currently in Europe, and my 90 Schengen days will end in Iceland in May. I'm planning to take the ferry to Faroe Islands (a Danish territory but non Schengen?) and then to Denmark in early June to use the bilateral tool. I wanted to split my time there with Norway. So after reading the posts here and some researching, my understanding is if I take the ferry from Copenhagen in July to Oslo, I can't return to Denmark? Has anyone tried something like this?
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u/CC_1138 Apr 08 '23
April 2023, this still works for Poland?
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u/hardcore-self-help Apr 11 '23
Yeah I just did it in Poland. Poland also allows (US citizens) to stay indefinitely by doing a visa run every 90 days. So I was able to do 90 days Schengen, then 180 days in Poland by combining bilateral agreement + visa run.
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u/Peripatetic_Virgo Apr 13 '23
I've been messaging The Netherlands, Norway, and Denmark regarding the bilateral agreement.
For The Netherlands, I contacted via WhatsApp and each time, a different rep responded. The last word was that there is no bilateral agreement. I sent them a link and now answer for 2days.
Norway - filled out online form and got a response that indicated the person didn't understand my questions. They suggest to limit 90 Schengen day. I filled out another form, rephrasing my questions, hoping I get a better answer.
Denmark - no answer yet but sounds like it is one of the easiest countries to use the bilateral agreement.
I want to travel between Denmark and Norway under bilateral agreement and after research, it's not clear if they're treated as one country so I can only stay in one or the other, or 90 days total between the two Nordic countries. Can someone clarify this?
Thanks!
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u/SER_DOUCHE Apr 14 '23
See this trip advisor thread, it suggests they are treated as one bloc.
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u/Peripatetic_Virgo Apr 15 '23
Thanks for response.
Yes, I understood that Denmark & Norway as one bloc, but I'm unclear (and officials don't seem to understand my question) whether I can use the 90 days to travel between the two countries or must stay in one. Wondering if anyone has had personal experience.
I agreed to a pet sit in Oslo and don't have enough Schengen days. I have a "friend" in Copenhagen that is waiting for me.
As of now, I have thought of 3 options, first 2 a gamble, the third option is the safest one to not get into trouble.
1) Arrive to Norway from U.K. and hoping I can travel to Denmark via ferry from Oslo to CPH. Sounds like they do scan passports for ID purpose, but unsure if it alerts the visa office. I've traveled in the Nordics enough to know the only place I've seen random passport checks are conducted is in Malmo Hyllie station, arriving from CPH. Otherwise, they don't even look at IDs at airports in Norway. If I do get into Denmark because no one checked, I will probably have to return to Norway to fly out of Schengen.
2) Ferry to Denmark from Faroe Islands (I'm pet sitting in Iceland for a month prior to this) and try to get into Norway via ferry. Then return to Denmark to fly out.
3) Cancel Norway and go to Denmark.
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u/SER_DOUCHE Apr 14 '23
Hello /u/david8840 and /u/iamjapho and any others who may know, While going down the rabbit hole of researching bilateral agreements I have seen you have significant experience with them.
My big question is one of showing proof that you have stayed within country. What kind of proof have you been asked to show? I will be on an extended bike trip, so not using public transport, and mostly camping and couchsurfing. I guess some countries are far stricter than others about showing proof.
Also /u/david8840 I saw in this thread: (https://old.reddit.com/r/digitalnomad/comments/z7nvu2/us_citizens_looking_to_use_bilateral_agreements/iy8mvts/?context=10) that you have had written confirmation from Italy that they respect the agreement.
Would it be possible to share? I have not tried contacting them personally yet but it seems like it is difficult to get confirmation.
Thank you for the help
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u/david8840 Apr 14 '23
You don't need proof for every day, just for when you change from one country to the next. For example if you spend 89 days in Greece (no bilateral agreement) and then 50 days in Italy (bilateral agreement) and then exit Schengen from Italy, you may need to prove to the Italians 2 things:
A: That on the day you entered Italy your stay in Europe was legal (before the 90th day, unless you came directly from another bilateral agreement country)
B: That you didn't stay in Italy for more than 90 days continuously.A plane ticket for your flight from Greece to Italy would satisfy both of these. By bike is a little more work to prove but not that hard. A receipt/ticket/invoice from Greece from the week you left plus another from Italy for the week you arrived will do. Ideally it should be something with your name on it but there's no official rule for it.
You can PM me for the copy of the embassy email. You're right, it wasn't easy to get.
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u/Emotional_Physics643 Apr 16 '23
Hello
I am a US citizen currently in Germany and I am almost reaching my 90 days limit. Can I travel out of Germany to the UK for 2 days and then travel to either Poland / Denmark / France then travel back to Germany and then leave back to USA from one of the countries I've listed above after two months ?
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u/JamesCOYS May 07 '23
Hi there. Hoping I can get an answer to my question even though this post is kind of old now!
I am from Australia, and Australia has a bi-lateral agreement with Germany.
I am travelling around Europe this year, and Germany is going to be the final country I am in - ie. I will be flying back home to Australia from Germany.
By the time I get to Germany, I will have spent 84 days in the Schengen region. I plan to be in Germany for 9-10 days, this will take me to 93 or 94 days (over the 90 days in Schengen).
Would this bi-lateral agreement between Australia & Germany allow me to do this? Or would I still be in breach of exceeding the 90 days, and breaking the law? I am just a little bit confused.
Thank you in advance!
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u/iamjapho Oct 05 '22 edited Oct 07 '22
Very well summed up. I have been taking advantage of these bilateral agreements for over 20 years and I can confirm it has worked without a problem Poland, Netherlands, Denmark and Hungary. Also agree that the word “hack” although incorrect, is a way more searchable term.