r/technology • u/ourlifeintoronto • Sep 10 '23

Transportation Lithium discovery in US volcano could be biggest deposit ever found

https://www.chemistryworld.com/news/lithium-discovery-in-us-volcano-could-be-biggest-deposit-ever-found/4018032.article
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190

u/stromm Sep 11 '23

Big oil companies own something like 96% of green energy including the resources.

145

u/rabidbot Sep 11 '23

Big oil will only resist green energy until they can replace or surpass profits of oil with it. The moment that equation works out for them it will become the most important thing in the history of mankind for us to immediately switch to green energy.

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u/davetronred Sep 11 '23

Yep, a bunch of hardline climate denying companies will suddenly be all about reversing carbon emissions. You love to see it.

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u/deathschemist Sep 11 '23

i don't care what the motive is, we need to move away from oil.

it's been high 20s celcius in fucking september in the UK, this is NOT normal!

7

u/uzlonewolf Sep 11 '23

Well, it is now.

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u/roxzorfox Sep 11 '23

The sun is going through its final stages in its cycle and there are more solar flares...it kind of is normal, we will probably have a very cold winter as well because the warmer summer...think back to the beast from the east.

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u/davetronred Sep 12 '23

I don't understand what Goosebumps books have to do with climate change

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u/[deleted] Sep 11 '23

At this point I'll take it.

15

u/Efficient_Jaguar699 Sep 11 '23

Really hope this equation tips a little faster so we can get this show on the road sooner. It needed to happen like twenty years ago.

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u/broniesnstuff Sep 11 '23

The second a single cell on an Excel spreadsheet somewhere turns green, then the energy revolution will begin.

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u/Langsamkoenig Sep 11 '23

Problem is that will likely never happen. Since renewables are functionally infinite and everywhere you can't control the market as effectively. Which is why while they are trying to diversify, they'll also try to keep us on oil for as long as possible.

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u/jmlinden7 Sep 11 '23

Renewables require storage to be effective at a grid scale, and storage requires raw materials which are not infinite

1

u/Langsamkoenig Sep 12 '23

They are functionally infinite. Iron, sodium, aluminium, carbon, a few other trace elements. The most abundant elements on earth. It's not like you need platinum like for fuel cells. Also once the battery is dead, everything can be recycled. It isn't just gone like oil is.

Oil giants won't be able to corner the market like they did with oil. That's just a fact. Which is why they won't let go until we make them.

1

u/jmlinden7 Sep 12 '23

There's a finite number of locations where it can be profitably mined, which is the same exact business model that oil uses.

It also requires extensive refining to recycle, guess who has the most experience refining stuff?

1

u/AlexB_SSBM Sep 11 '23

Which is already happening. There's a reason solar and wind growth has been absolutely explosive, and it's because battery technology has evolved an insane amount such that renewables make more money than oil.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 11 '23

Sounds good, so we just continue destroying the planet until it’s convenient and sufficiently profitable for some random assholes?

You realize it’s actually profitable to do right now but they want it to be just as profitable, that’s never going to happen and it shouldn’t have to happen for us to be able to respond to this crisis that will kill billions in the near future

1

u/MetalGhost99 Sep 12 '23

Big oil wont go anywhere for hundreds of years. To many important things as well as crucial things are made from oil. Even if we quit using it as an energy source we still need it.

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u/n4zza_ Sep 11 '23

What do you mean? If BP owns the sun im going to write an essay

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u/TheJDUBS2 Sep 11 '23

how does one harvest the sun? through solar panels. how are solar panels made, who makes them, and who gets the materials? Thats how

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u/regoapps Sep 11 '23 edited Sep 11 '23

You can actually produce energy from solar using only mirrors, lenses and a steam generator. Just angle the mirrors and lenses to focus the sunlight onto a thermal receiver, similar to a boiler tube. The receiver absorbs and converts sunlight into heat. The heat is then transported to a steam generator or engine where it is converted into electricity.

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u/ComputingWaffle Sep 11 '23

Way off topic but I did not expect to see the creator of the 5-0 police scanner app while scrolling through Reddit. I’ve had the app downloaded for years and I instantly recognized your profile picture. Anyways, I appreciate the work you put into creating it.

Have a good one!

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u/regoapps Sep 11 '23

Aww, you’re too kind. Thanks for using my app! You have a good one as well.

5

u/katarjin Sep 11 '23

This right here is why despite all the issues social media has I still love it. (Never heard of that app, I'll have to check it out.)

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u/thebornotaku Sep 11 '23

Like so: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivanpah_Solar_Power_Facility

Downside is sometimes the intense, focused sunlight cooks birds that fly through.

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u/regoapps Sep 11 '23

Free electricity AND a free meal? Where do I sign up?

5

u/BioshockEnthusiast Sep 11 '23

brb buying stock in KFC

4

u/doyletyree Sep 11 '23

Kilowatt fried

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u/Gavroche_Lives Sep 11 '23

Yup birds die sometimes. Next.

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u/kimbabs Sep 11 '23

Pretty insane how many birds that thing kills for not reaching its advertised capacity, even into 2020.

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u/CrimsonMutt Sep 11 '23

6000 a year is nothing compared to cats

1

u/buckX Sep 11 '23

How many bird kills were advertised?

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u/brianwski Sep 11 '23

focused sunlight cooks birds that fly through

I heard that they invented home microwave ovens after they noticed birds that fly in front of military radar were cooked in flight.

Now in full disclosure, I heard this from a drunk stranger in a bar, so it deserves to be checked out for certain.

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u/jeffjefforson Sep 11 '23 edited Sep 11 '23

I think the first "microwave" was actually used to wake small rodents from cryosleep which is just as insane

Edit: I am wrong, guy below me right

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u/[deleted] Sep 11 '23

[deleted]

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u/brianwski Sep 11 '23

I saw these posts and realized there was no consensus between these comments and nobody was actually citing any sources

Haha! Now I am doing Google searches and I'm still not sure. This page: https://www.si.edu/newsdesk/snapshot/microwave-oven (and the Wikipedia page) claims a guy named Percy Spencer was working with military radar during World War 2 (1945) and noticed a chocolate bar in his pocket was melting. (I'm a little worried about what that was doing to his dangling man parts.)

vacuum tube radio waves were used to heat sandwiches at the 1933 Chicago World's Fair

Huh, yeah, other Wikipedia articles reference that. Plus say it can't be earlier than the 1920s because the first radio wave generators were invented then.

There are several references to the United Kingdom inventing the "cavity magnetron" but it was explicitly for things like radio transmission and military radar, they didn't realize it heated things containing water.

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u/jeffjefforson Sep 11 '23

Thank you for the correction! Awesome info!

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u/blade740 Sep 11 '23

The story I heard was that a guy working at Raytheon was trying to invent some sort of death ray, but it wasn't working very well. Then someone walked in front of it and the chocolate bar in his pocket melted.

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u/sadbr0cc0li Sep 11 '23

Thanks for the super interesting read!!

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u/uzlonewolf Sep 11 '23

Still fewer bird deaths than by outdoor house cat.

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u/thebornotaku Sep 12 '23

Still not a reason to hand wave away actual tangible impacts things have on the environment.

1

u/uzlonewolf Sep 12 '23

And yet hand-waving away the bird deaths caused by the pollution from fossil fuel plants is fine?

Also, surely you have a source showing the number of birds cooked is statistically relevant? Because that whole argument is just FUD if not.

1

u/thebornotaku Sep 12 '23

And yet hand-waving away the bird deaths caused by the pollution from fossil fuel plants is fine?

When did I ever state that? Please quote the specific sentence. I'll wait.

Also, surely you have a source showing the number of birds cooked is statistically relevant? Because that whole argument is just FUD if not.

https://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-solar-bird-deaths-20160831-snap-story.html

1

u/[deleted] Sep 11 '23

New supply of rotisserie for supermarkets

1

u/danielravennest Sep 11 '23

It is the Nevada desert. There aren't that many birds. The top killers of birds in the US are (1) domestic cats, (2) windows, (3) power lines (4) coal pollution. Wind turbines and solar farms are way down the list.

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u/TheJDUBS2 Sep 11 '23

yes and individuals and other companies could do that, fact of the matter is that the oil companies are actually the ones investing the most into green energy

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u/Consistent_Wave_2869 Sep 11 '23

They are likely investing in lobbying against it as well

1

u/InsufferableMollusk Sep 11 '23

Also, freshly baked birds on the ground below 🍗

-1

u/ProRustler Sep 11 '23

Hell yeah, let's really get this global warming started by making it day all the time!

1

u/[deleted] Sep 11 '23

[deleted]

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u/ProRustler Sep 11 '23

I'm missing an /s, but nothing is 100% efficient. Plus, we're just gonna build one power plant?

1

u/sombrerobandit Sep 11 '23

well, some of it

1

u/texinxin Sep 11 '23

Concentrated solar is sweet tech! Check out molten salt thermal storage and ditch that silly old school steam generator for a whiz bang supercritical C02 generator and you are cranking out electricity only when you need it! It’s solar that can run 24/7 if it needed to!

1

u/spez_might_fuck_dogs Sep 11 '23

Cool, who's investing in the infrastructure to create the mirror field and giant suspended heat globe?

1

u/[deleted] Sep 11 '23

You can, it just way harder and more expensive.

1

u/Cyberlout Sep 11 '23

Nestle gonna figure out a way to make you pay for that boiler water!

1

u/Karatekan Sep 11 '23

Steam doesn’t transport well and has high maintenance costs, turbines are difficult to make/expensive and work best at larger scales, and higher ambient air temperatures dramatically reduce the efficiency of relatively low-temperature systems.

For heating water for residential use it’s ok, but even there the dramatic price drop in PV panels mean it’s usually better to directly produce electricity and run heat pumps.

3

u/SirBMsALot Sep 11 '23

I mean didn’t other suns technically make the materials needed to make the panels?

1

u/Eponymous_Doctrine Sep 12 '23

if it's heavier than Iron, it came from a supernova

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u/pablogott Sep 11 '23

Isn’t it better if BP finds more profits from solar than oil? Either way it’s going to require a large company to organize the research, production, and distribution of energy.

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u/[deleted] Sep 11 '23

Ok, but nobody is every going to make as much money on panels that last 40 years vs constantly supplying fuel, sooo who cares.

At the end of the day the green tech is more efficient and easier to maintain, not just cleaner. Blaming fossil fuel companies for consumer demand is weak. We all did it, live up to it and work on solution vs waste time pointing fingers.

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u/TheJDUBS2 Sep 11 '23

not sure if this is a wrong reply or not, I was just pointing out that big oil can make money on green energy

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u/rigored Sep 11 '23

That is one of the constants we can be fairly confident about. All anyone truly cares about is the $$.

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u/Love_Lettuce_8380 Sep 11 '23

I'm fine with that it means we know how to best incentivize them into doing what we need them to do.

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u/JinFuu Sep 11 '23

I'm fine with that if we can convince some people that long term, continuous/stable flow of money is better than trying to wringe out as much as you can in the current quarter/financial year. : V

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u/Love_Lettuce_8380 Sep 11 '23

you said it way better than me I 100% agree

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u/[deleted] Sep 11 '23

As soon as energy storage is a little cheaper wind and solar will rather easily beat anything but natural gas and then given a bit more time it will beat natural gas and that will be that.

EVs are even easier because that's like 100 times less moving parts to deal with so as the batteries keep improving at a pretty rapid rate the EVs blows past fossil fuel vehicles in affordability.

It's hard to say there really is any significant need to incentivize a transition when we don't quite have the energy storage to make it work. Because solar and wind is already cheaper than any fossil fuel power generation the energy storage hurdle finally being overcome will be like a flood gate of adoption being opened.

Any taxes on fossil fuels DIRECTLY makes the transition to green energy more expensive, incentive or not. Really they already have tons of incentives IF the damn energy storage was just a bit better.

It's like generally people always switch to electric when they can because electric is always more convenient if it can do the job, not unlike electric yard tools. Once you don't have to deal with gas and oil lawnmowers, that's it, you'll never go back. Most corporations feel the same way and don't care what the oil and gas companies think, they will move to electric because it save THEM money in operation cost and maintenance.

At some point solar is like your setting up a panel that can produce gasoline in your backyard and if such a thing existed there's nothing the oil and gas companies could really do to stop it and all the naysayers would shut their mouth and start getting "free gas from the sun".

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u/rigored Sep 11 '23

Buy electric everything. There’s the incentive

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u/Love_Lettuce_8380 Sep 11 '23

I want to saving up for my first EV here soon!

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u/Joe_Jeep Sep 11 '23

All anybody who's rich cares about is money, and by extension, power.

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u/TimX24968B Sep 11 '23

so theyre actually just "big energy"

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u/CantReadGood_ Sep 11 '23 edited Sep 11 '23

Do you have any sources for this? I'm skeptical af about this claim. We get sources pointing to big oil shirking on their green energy investments and promises every year. Something close to half of all green energy produced on the planet is being produced in China, and not by oil companies....

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u/Helkafen1 Sep 11 '23

Yeah it's not true at all. All the major solar panels and battery and wind turbine producers are independent. The only significant exception is Ørsted, which transitioned from fossil fuels into wind power a few years ago.

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u/Helkafen1 Sep 11 '23

Doubtful. Source?

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u/rigored Sep 11 '23

I don’t know about the stats, but big oil is in that space now. Lithium extraction seems like a natural extension of the drilling, fracking, and refining process they’ve got down.

https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/exxon-mobil-expands-lithium-bet-with-tetra-technologies-deal-2023-06-28/

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u/magkruppe Sep 11 '23

big oil has always been in the mining sector. who else is gonna mine for minerals? I'm sure all the biggest mining corps also drill for oil/gas/coal

the question is if "big oil" is also the biggest players in solar/hydro/nuclear etc. I very much doubt it, especially when you consider how big china (and others like Spain?) are in the renewables sector

1

u/[deleted] Sep 11 '23

Not true, but is that a bad thing ?

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u/rawbamatic Sep 11 '23

Big Oil does not own the sun, the wind, or the oceans. Anyone can join the fray, they just need money.

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u/MaizeWarrior Sep 11 '23

I'm skeptical of this, sounds too crazy, you got a source for that?

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u/Helkafen1 Sep 11 '23

It's not true at all. All the major solar panels and battery and wind turbine producers are independent. The only significant exception is Ørsted, which transitioned from fossil fuels into wind power a few years ago.

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u/MaizeWarrior Sep 11 '23

Yeah pretty much what I thought

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u/spaceS4tan Sep 11 '23

I'm going to assume this is only if you call an energy company that owns a natural gas plant an oil company because otherwise lol, no.

1

u/anormalgeek Sep 11 '23

They're hedging their bets as they know it's an inevitable move. But they're also going to drag out the fossil fuel as LONG as possible to maximize profit.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 11 '23

Evil never dies, my friend. It exits the stage only to reappear in the next act with a new mask.

1

u/1521 Sep 11 '23

I was going to say, meet the new boss, same as the old boss