r/unitedkingdom • u/BestButtons • 1d ago
Keir Starmer to relax rules on electric car sales
https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/electric-car-rules-ev-tariffs-5h82kjwpv65
u/ashyjay 1d ago
"The revised measures are still expected to ban “mild hybrids”, which use a battery-powered electric motor to support a petrol or diesel engine to improve efficiency and reduce emissions."
that is the best thing out of this, as mild hybrids are pointless, there's no electric only propulsion, just some coasting and a small amount of torque fill between gear changes.
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u/ProjectZeus4000 1d ago
They aren't pointless, they reduce fuel consumption.
You don't solve climate change by driving as many miles as possible in electric. You just need to burn less fossil fuels
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u/ashyjay 1d ago
You're talking fractions of MPG, and singular grams of CO2. a proper full hybrid or PHEV are better options. mild hybrids exist as a bolt on for existing engines and some like the 12v and 24v mild hybrids barely even change the emissions or economy.
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u/Nice_Database_9684 1d ago
My hybrid gets 60 mpg on the motorway and 70-85 around town. I can’t afford an EV and have nowhere to charge it.
I’m doing the best I can.
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u/britnveeg 23h ago edited 23h ago
That sounds like a PHEV, not MHEV.
*Love being downvoted by people who think a MHEV is getting 85mpg anywhere, let alone around town.
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u/Nice_Database_9684 22h ago
It’s a 2016 Yaris. I’m just a fucking beast at hypermiling it. I literally treat it like it’s a game and I’m getting a high score. I’ve seen up to 90s before on short specific runs.
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u/cheapskatebiker 1d ago
Having had one, I would like to note that the mild hybrid can have more acceleration than the engine would suggest. Under relaxed driving with the occasional overtaking, or motorway joining, you can get away with a smaller engine. So I would not compare a 1.4 mild hybrid with a 1.4 ice, but with a 1.6 or 1.8 litre equivalent ice.
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u/CulturalAd4117 16h ago
So I would not compare a 1.4 mild hybrid with a 1.4 ice, but with a 1.6 or 1.8 litre equivalent ice.
We already have that, it's called forced induction
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u/ProjectZeus4000 1d ago
I haven't read the details but I don't think the regulations can distinguish between a "mild hybrid" and a full hybrid.
They can only distinguish whether it has a plug or not
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u/themcsame 1d ago
Electric-only capabilities seems like the logical way to distinguish between the two.
MHEVs can't drive on electric only, HEVs can, even if only for a mile or so.
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u/EdmundTheInsulter 1d ago
That's like stop start though, an expensive feature that shaves some puny amount off mpg, partly relying on ignorance of how engines work.
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u/Future_Pianist9570 1d ago
You take that and apply it to a million vehicles and it’s not insignificant. Of course PHEV or full hybrids are better but they aren’t always an option
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u/ClockOwn6363 17h ago
It isn't just a fraction if they sell 100s of thousands. It's all about scale.
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u/grey_hat_uk Cambridgeshire 1d ago
I think the problem is they get sold instead of actual hybrids, it's cheaper to turn existing petrol car designs into mild hybrids.
So the minor benefits on an individual basis is swamped be an overall negative effect.
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u/Logic-DL Scottish Highlands 23h ago
Also we don't have the convenience of petrols yet.
Hybrids are the best way to get people to switch, because they're coasting on electric on motorways and dual carriageways, and people can still fill up at petrol stations in 5 minutes max.
Fully electric will never work until we have chargers capable of charging the car in that timeframe, it's a fucking pipedream to think people will just say to their bosses "yea sorry boss I'll be 30 minutes late the car has to charge and I'm having a latte while it does that" or that'll just be the norm.
Who tf wants to hang around a charging station or services for 30+ minutes on a journey outside of missed lunch/breakfast?
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u/Eric_Olthwaite_ 6h ago
You won't solve CC by buying a EV either. The big polluters are laughing at you.
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u/ProjectZeus4000 5h ago
Bla bla bla "big polluters are all evil companies you don't have any impact"
Around 20% of co2 emissions are from transport so obviously electrifying cars is an import part of it
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u/Eric_Olthwaite_ 4h ago
Transport. That's not ICE's. Your EV is making no difference when Taylor Swift and Elmo's private planes are negating the impact of thousands of EV's every week...
Stop being a mug, enjoy your EV and its plummeting value , but stop kidding yourself it's making a difference. The rich are just laughing at you.
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u/ProjectZeus4000 2h ago
https://ourworldindata.org/ghg-emissions-by-sector
Road transport is 6 times bigger than aviation so the millions of cars do make a difference..
Obviously 1 normal persons car is less impactful that one mega rich persons private jet. That's not a radical insight you have
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u/takesthebiscuit Aberdeenshire 1d ago
They are, the extra weight and resources required to make them more than out weighs the negligible fuel savings
These things only exist as a dodge to get round emissions rules by saving fuel in narrow edge cases, a legal version of the Vw dodge.
Electric cars are good enough for 99% of us now
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u/Wattsit 1d ago
Electric cars are good enough for 99% of us now
UK infrastructure is absolutely nowhere near ready for all vehicles to be electric.
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u/theaveragemillenial 1d ago
You don't want to be using public charging anyway.
I drive an EV it costs me 7p per kWh at home, if I'm out long distance that's 85p per kWh at a super charger.
The vehicles themselves and the range is good enough, the number of chargers and the time it takes to charge is not.
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u/ChemistryQuirky2215 1d ago
I saw a video where James May described it as "charger anxiety" and thats its not "range anxiety" because if you knew you change when your range is low it wouldn't be a problem. Which I think describes it perfectly.
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u/theaveragemillenial 1d ago
At home I charge overnight every night, I wake up with 300 miles of range daily.
Most people don't start with that much range daily and will fill up as needed, which is fine in petrol cars because it takes minutes.
From 20% to 80% in an EV is 30 minutes on a fast charger, despite what people want to admit it is a complete cultural change.
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u/brazilish East Anglia 1d ago
At home I live in a flat with no outside charging infrastructure. But there is a petrol station 2minutes away..
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u/chukkysh 1d ago
I'd love an electric car, but like anyone who lives in a terraced house or flat (or anyone without a personal driveway), the charging at home issue still hasn't been addressed. I think that problem affects much more than 1% of the population.
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u/pashbrufta 1d ago
Spoken like a true middle class man with a driveway
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u/Independent-Band8412 1d ago
65% of households in the UK have off street parking.
The areas with little off street parking also have the lowest car ownership rates. Still almost half of Londoners have off street parking too so definitely not some rare privilege
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u/Tiggywiggler Kent 1d ago
No they're not. At least 1% of people live in flats or other accommodation that makes electric vehcile ownership unworkable.
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u/Interesting_Try8375 1d ago
Tbh something needs to be done about parking around a lot of terraced housing anyway but generally no one really wants to because making it better for people would be unpopular.
Cars get more rights than humans.
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u/Spooky776 1d ago
Rubbish I'm afraid, not great unless you're in a city.
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u/takesthebiscuit Aberdeenshire 1d ago
Of course the cars are good enough, the infrastructure isn’t great but it is improving and the government only just changed the law in December 24 to lower the planning requirements for on street and increased residential charging
Plus as more rapid charging is fitted and more importantly sped up charging an EV will be closer to the experience of refilling a tank of fuel.
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u/ProjectZeus4000 1d ago
Very narrow edge cases?
I suppose that's why 80% of Uber drivers drove a Prius then?
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u/chukkysh 1d ago
They're not the greenest cars on the road, but they're not pointless. The point is that they store energy from momentum that would otherwise be wasted by decelerating and let you deploy it under acceleration. In regular city driving that does save energy, but doesn't do a huge amount for motorway driving.
Full hybrids are always going to be more expensive as they're more versatile and have more powerful motors, so mild hybrids give some of the benefits at a fraction of the cost.
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u/ashyjay 1d ago
You'd reduce emissions and increase economy by a larger margin, by getting a more aerodynamic and lighter car, i.e not a crossover.
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u/chukkysh 1d ago
Completely agree, but it does depend how you use it. Not much aero benefit if most of your driving is around town. As I said, they're not the most eco option compared to anything that you plug in, but given a model of car, mild hybrid is going to save a marginal amount of fuel every time you accelerate. Once you're up to speed, you're ticking over unless you're going fast. I don't think they should be advertised as green either. They're just not.
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u/mynameisollie 1d ago
They’re also cheaper compared to an electric or full hybrid. Not everyone can afford to go electric yet.
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u/Jarocket 20h ago
Or just a smaller engine too. But it’s a competitive market. People don’t like underpowered cars.
I personally don’t love the idea that climate change is a result of everyday citizens though. Commercial emissions are the issue. We can’t just al buy EVs and have the problem solved at all.
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u/ashyjay 18h ago
"People don’t like underpowered cars." oh honey, they do, there's reasons cars like an Audi A3 comes with a 1.0TSI, and you could get a BMW 3 series with a 1.5 3 pot, and cars like the Pug 5008 comes with a 136BHP 1.2.
These are cars far too large for their engines which means you need to drive them harder which uses more fuel. instead of an engine with the right amount of torque for it's weight and size.
People in the UK like cars with all the toys and gimmicks instead of an adequately powered engine.
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u/tradandtea123 1d ago
I don't think pointless, I drove a courtesy hybrid (Yaris) and effectively got 75mpg driving up and down hills around Bradford and north Yorkshire for work, in a similar sized petrol (corsa) I get about 45-50mpg. It seemed to run on electric about half the time but obviously not going uphill.
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u/GMN123 1d ago
Yaris isn't a mild hybrid, it's a full hybrid, or, in marketing parlance, a 'self charging hybrid'.
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u/tradandtea123 1d ago
Ok, not really sure the difference tbh.
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u/kharma45 Northern Ireland 1d ago
Bigger battery pack, generally a MHEV cannot run on battery alone.
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u/Capital-Reference757 1d ago edited 1d ago
Sorry that's wrong, the combustion engines in ICE cars work differently compared to pure ICE cars as typical ICE cars use the Otto cycle compared to hybrid ICE cars which use the Akinson cycle.
The Akinson cycle is more efficient compared to the Otto cycle but has a lower power output so hybrid cars can use the electric motor to compensate. This is also why you tend to see hybrid cars topping the car reliability rankings.
https://www.pakwheels.com/blog/otto-vs-atkinson-cycle-engines/
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u/ashyjay 1d ago
You're confusing Mild hybrids with Full hybrids (Toyota/Lexus calls them "self-charging hybrids"). Toyota, the most prevalent manufacturer of Atkinson cycle engines, uses a modified variant that can switch between Otto and Atkinson and has never made a mild hybrid system.
Mild hybrids are a normal Otto or Miller cycle engine with a 12-48v belt driven ISG to aid restarts during stop/start, enable coasting while cruising at a steady speed, and moderate torque fill during gear changes on forced induction engines all depending on application and system used.
I will concede that there is one mild hybrid set up that actually works, and is used by Porsche and Mercedes as they use it to spool the turbo charger to aid performance in the 911 GTS T-Hybrid and AMG C63.
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u/Capital-Reference757 1d ago
Right, thanks for correcting me - I didn’t realise there was a ‘mild’ and ‘full’ variant of hybrids. I thought those were your description of hybrid cars! I also assumed the car manufacturers would produce full hybrids given how efficient the Atkinson cycle is
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u/Public-Guidance-9560 1d ago
Assuming this relates to 48V mild hybrids and not Toyota style hybrids. The latter are actually very good. The former are really not worth the squirt.
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u/Creative-Problem6309 2h ago
The Prius from the 2010s is still a landmark car that uses half to a third of a conventional ICE car. How is that pointless?
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u/kharma45 Northern Ireland 1d ago
Not the case for all. This astounded me https://x.com/richardaucock/status/1788469335238885802?s=61&t=kmswgh7u83U9yT4DcMEL7Q
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u/Ryanliverpool96 1d ago
Translation - JLR’s stupid, incompetent and lazy management have failed to make any competitive EV so now they’re begging politicians to save them from their own stupidity because they’re being completely out competed by Chinese EVs which are cheaper, faster, better handling, more reliable, have longer range, better quality interiors, are more comfortable and safer.
The government should be taking the side of the British people over idiotic executives with over inflated egos, if they can’t make a product that people want to buy then they deserve to go bankrupt.
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u/Nice_Database_9684 1d ago
It’s worth noting BYD has received mass subsidies from the CCP for like 20 years now. Their cars are half the price because of that and slave labour.
It’s literally economic warfare.
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u/Ryanliverpool96 21h ago
Even if that was true, why on earth would anyone turn down free money off a car, courtesy of the Chinese government?
If China want to send us foreign aid and excellent electric cars whilst paying half the price for us, why the hell wouldn’t we take as many as we can get our hands on?
The British people are not beholden to JLR shareholders or any other shareholders, they are free to choose the best car for their hard earned money. Why would anyone pay more money for a worse car?
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u/Nice_Database_9684 19h ago
Because china is a shithole country. Do you want your only vehicle choices to be Chinese CCP spy machines?
Why don’t we have any British car manufacturers any more?
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u/droiddayz 1d ago
None of the luxury European car makers can sell their electric cars. Porsche can't sell the Taycan and Audi can't sell the e-tron GT. The kind of people who buy theses cars just aren't interested in electric cars. JLR is looking pretty smart at the moment, with all the other manufacturers having wasted bucketloads of money developing cars that simply don't sell.
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u/I_love_running_89 United Kingdom 22h ago
There’s a reason why Chinese EVs are cheaper, faster, more advanced.
It has very little to do with ‘stupid, lazy, incompetent management’ at JLR.
Much more to do with China having different (read - limited to no) labour laws, health and safety laws, emissions/environmental regulations. No IP laws. And regional access to metals/minerals needed for BEVs.
All that = vastly accelerated development and superior technology. At the expense of some of the above mentioned points; if one cares about those things.
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u/Bladders_ 20h ago
Not heard of the I-Pace, it was way ahead of a lot of other manufacturers in 2018.
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u/Comrade-Hayley 1d ago
So they're cutting back on net zero targets like they said they wouldn't
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u/Hollywood-is-DOA 1d ago
A lot more is dictated by the general public in terms of what the government has to drop and what they can legally get away with implementing.
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u/Comrade-Hayley 1d ago
They don't have to drop anything they're choosing to
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u/AnotherRightDoc 1d ago
They are choosing to because of the feedback from the general public. Welcome to democracy.
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u/Logic-DL Scottish Highlands 23h ago
EV Redditors truly in shambles realising that people don't wanna sit for an hour at a services waiting on a car of all things to charge, and thus the government has to listen to that and change plans accordingly.
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u/Comrade-Hayley 20h ago
No they're choosing to because their corporate doners said so
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u/Swimming_Register_32 5h ago
Out of touch idealist failing to realise people value things differently. Who knew.
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1d ago
[deleted]
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u/Swimming_Map2412 1d ago
Don't forget the fact they are still going ahead with the car tax changes for EVs instead of reversing them as well. Hardly relaxing rules in an environmentally friendly way.
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u/TheMountainWhoDews 1d ago
The taxpayer should not be subsidising EVs. If someone wants one, they can go and buy one without the rest of us chipping in some cash for it.
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u/Acceptable-Heron6839 1d ago
I’m an EV driver and I agree with this. The 0% car tax was an incentive to act as a gateway to get people to buy electric. Now that momentum has begun EV drivers should pay their way for road maintenance etc.
TW: ULEZ
If you want to further incentivise the move to electric introduce ULEZ zones throughout every major city in the UK with high quality public transport - but only for cars built after 2025/2026. That way anyone purchasing a new non-compliant vehicle after that date is doing so fully informed and no one with an existing petrol/diesel vehicle gets unfairly punished. Then use the ULEZ income generated in each city to further upgrade their public transport.
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u/Swimming_Map2412 1d ago
The expensive car supplement is a massive break to that momentum though. I'd be fine with it if the threshold was higher or it didn't apply to 2nd hand vehicles bought after this year.
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u/Acceptable-Heron6839 1d ago
Agreed but that’s where the secondhand market comes in. You could still buy used petrol/diesel cars built before 2025/2026 without being penalised but anyone insisting on buying new is highly incentivised to buy electric.
You can get new electric vehicles starting from £20k currently and that price will continue to come down in the next few years if demand continues to increase, the network continues to get built out and electric becomes the standard.
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u/Swimming_Map2412 1d ago
People should be incentivised to buy 2nd hand electrics though and in 3 years time there's going to be a load of 2nd EVs coming off lease that are going to cost more to tax than a brand new petrol car which is madness if the country wants to cut air pollution.
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u/Acceptable-Heron6839 1d ago
Isn’t that supplement only on electric cars initially registered after April 25 and with a list price over £40k? If I have understood that correctly then purchasing a new electric car worth £40k+ is a discretionary decision, especially with a buoyant used car market and an ever increasing range of new electric vehicles coming to market under £40k.
We still need to make secondhand fossil fuels cars appealing until the environmental impact of disposing of a <5 year old fossil fuel car far exceeds the environmental impact of building and running a brand new EV (many are still charged using fossil fuels and the mining process for lithium, nickel etc has environmental impacts) whilst not putting people in hardship who rely on very low cost fossil fuel vehicles (<£5000) to live.
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u/Logic-DL Scottish Highlands 23h ago
Using ULEZ funds to fund transport is a pipe dream though
Council/Gov would just fund the army/drug parties instead.
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u/0x633546a298e734700b 1d ago
Right but it makes no sense for an EV to cost nearly two hundred quid a year but a good number of petrol and diesel engines less than forty
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u/Logic-DL Scottish Highlands 23h ago
EV's are heavy, they don't make emissions sure but they sure as shit destroy the roads faster.
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u/TheMountainWhoDews 1d ago
It makes no sense for fags to be £18 a pack, but here we are.
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u/0x633546a298e734700b 22h ago
Quite the straw man. Well done
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u/TheMountainWhoDews 7h ago
My point is that taxes make no sense across the board. If you were trying to maximise treasury income, you'd do things differently, so mere greed isn't a sufficient explanation.
The regime are stupid and don't have a clue. They're happy to tax for the sake of tax, and don't care if the consequences fly in the face of their stated aims.
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u/Logic-DL Scottish Highlands 23h ago
Also they're fucking heavy.
Pay the damn road tax, ever since pissing EV's got brought in I've seen WAY more potholes in a very short amount of time, came off my bike because admittedly, I stupidly thought a pothole in a layby was shallow.
Was it fuck, threw me off the damn bike, thought a cunting lorry had parked there because I've never seen a regular car make a crater in a layby.
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u/BestButtons 1d ago
Article contents:
Ben Clatworthy, Transport Correspondent | Steven Swinford, Political Editor, April 4 2025, The Times
The prime minister will relax rules on the sale of electric cars next week as he seeks to avoid the industry being decimated by tariffs.
Sir Keir Starmer has given the green light for the zero-emission vehicle (ZEV) mandate to be watered down after President Trump hit the auto sector with 25 per cent tariffs on exports to the US, which came into force on Thursday.
Plans to ban hybrid vehicles from 2030 will be dropped and the sale of plug-in hybrids, which can be powered by a petrol or diesel engine and battery, will be allowed until 2035.
Motor manufacturers are growing more concerned that the UK could become a “dumping ground” for cheap electric cars made in China.
Even before Trump’s blanket tariffs, Britain was the only western country not to have imposed duties on Chinese models. The EU levies tariffs of up to 35.3 per cent on Chinese electric car imports.
The changes to the mandate will give car manufacturers more flexibility on meeting annual electric vehicle sales targets. It is believed this will allow manufacturers who do not meet the requirement in one year to make up for it in subsequent years without facing fines.
Under the existing mandate, 28 per cent of new cars sold in the UK must be electric this year. The annual targets rise gradually each year until they reach 80 per cent of sales in 2030, when sales of new petrol and diesel cars will be banned.
If carmakers miss targets they face fines of up to £15,000 for every vehicle above their quota of petrol and diesel cars. However, the rules already contain loopholes, or “flexibilities”, which allow them to earn credits by reducing the emissions of the petrol and diesel cars they sell.
The government ran a consultation until February 18 to “seek views on proposals to support the UK’s transition to zero emission vehicles”. The results of it will be published next week.
A senior automotive source said: “It is good news that they are getting on with it but we still need to see that the changes work when they meet reality. The industry in the UK is under huge strain. We can only hope that the measures go far enough given the financial pressures.”
The revised measures are still expected to ban “mild hybrids”, which use a battery-powered electric motor to support a petrol or diesel engine to improve efficiency and reduce emissions.
Bringing forward the announcement to next week will also give Labour some political cover, allowing the relaxations to be tied directly to the harm caused to the industry by Trump’s tariffs. The Labour manifesto at last year’s election pledged to “restoring the phase-out date of 2030 for new cars with internal combustion engines”.
Figures show that UK sales of electric cars rose to a monthly record in March, although their market share remained below the 28 per cent target for this year.
Last month 69,313 electric cars were sold, 43 per cent more than a year earlier, according to the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders. However, that only represented a market share of 19.4 per cent, up from 15.2 per cent last year, in what is traditionally the busiest month of the year for car sales.
The row over Chinese imports is also expected to intensify in coming weeks. One source said: “As it currently stands, the Chinese are winning on every front. There are no restrictions on imports to the UK and as it stands manufacturers that don’t meet their ZEV targets can buy credits from those who do, namely the electric-only brands, such as BYD [the Chinese company].
“It’s going to need serious consideration or the UK could become even more of a dumping ground for the Chinese.”
A Department for Transport spokesman said: “We remain committed to the EV transition and are working urgently to restore clarity to the industry. That’s why we consulted with the sector earlier this year, and the government has been preparing a response in the usual way.”
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u/Hollywood-is-DOA 1d ago
The high cost of non electric, second hand cars now makes sense. They don’t want you buying them, hence the sky high cost.
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u/DoireK 1d ago
Supply and demand. COVID significantly reduced production for a few years and after that targets meant that they weren't producing as many ICE cars.
So a consequence of government policy but they don't have any control on the second hand market beyond that. I've been looking at a new car (to me) around 4 or 5 years old and it's starting to get hard to justify getting an ICE car when you can get really low mileage EVs for similar money that won't give emission filter faults or gearbox or engine/turbo problems. Obviously they won't suit everyone as you need access to chargers but if you have a driveway or charging at work they make an awful lot of sense.
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u/Turbulent_Art745 23h ago
I got an EV this week. not because im a fan per se, but because there was a good deal on a lease and we wanted an automatic. How on earth did this become part of the culture wars.
the tech is absolutely solid and were finally at the point where all car sizes are covered. the Renault 5 and Hyundai inster this year are new small EVs which arent a crazy amount of money, especially when you see how much all cars cost now. even the picanto is insane, starting at £16k for an engine not overly suitable for motorways etc.
the thing they need to crack ASAP is charging for people without home access. Sort that out, offer at cost leasing for people on low incomes and you will make progress naturally. The govt could introduce a payment plan that lets people use public chargers for the same as they pay on their home EV tarrif. being able to charge our EV to do 200 plus miles for £6 is something that needs to be shared with all people if they are going to benefit from the change over. otherwise its just a car that does car things, with less overall pollution after a short while if your electric is renewable and zero local emissions for the asthma people.
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u/Travel-solo- 1d ago
Still waiting for Keir to answer the charging dilemma. It's not possible to charge at home where I live and it be impractical to fight over the 2 EV charges at the local Tesco.
I'm not opposed to an EV but I think it's a poor solution because recycling the batteries is not exactly a planet friendly or people friendly process with the amount of toxic chemicals there are. Yes technology will improve over time but alternative options should not be dismissed either such as E-fuels and Hydrogen.
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u/Brammerz 23h ago
This! Infrastructure is not present in the UK for a massive switch to electric. As long as it's a burden to use compared to ICE it's never going to work.
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u/Optimaldeath 1d ago
By the time European manufacturers get a grip and stop living in a fantasy the Chinese with their 150 car companies will have utterly destroyed them.
What happened to post-war miracles? Did we just give up?
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u/OTribal_chief 23h ago
its not the selling of the cars thats the issue
they really need to pass legislation for on street charging. i dont have a charger on my terraced street but i'm quite lucky i can charge at work. however this week i've been off. my initial plan was to charge it at the local lidl but that was taken then i had to drive to a service station which had Ionity chargers. i had to stay there 40 mins till it got where i wanted.
how great would it be to just run a plug from my house across the footpath and to my car. whether the council charges to dig a covered drain or i get to place some rubber weights across it, something needs to be done about this
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u/Own-Advance1307 21h ago
This is actually good news. It’s basically handing the car industry to China. I’ve never understood why we had an earlier ICE phaseout than mainland Europe given they have better public transport therefore less car dependant which would mean they would have an easier switching. But even then it’s killing the German car industry.
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u/TakenIsUsernameThis 21h ago
Mandate that all road vehicles must have an electric drive train with both the means and enough energy storage to recover the full kinetic energy of the vehicle at max speed and load and redeploy it for acceleration (less any acceptable losses)
Leave the rest to industry.
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u/pepthebaldfraud 1d ago
Who cares when Taylor Swift flies to the next village on her private jet and burns more fuel than millions of people over their entire lifetimes? Crazy that regular people have to pay the price and be inconvenienced just because of the environment when there’s more important things to worry about
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u/13esq 1d ago
This is a silly comparison.
Banning private jets isn't going to fix CO2 emissions. Whilst they are obviously entirely unhelpful, it's a piss in the pond in the greater scheme of things and comes across as crabs in a bucket and what aboutism rather than actually contributing to the debate.
It sounds as if you think it's not worth encouraging the move over to electric vehicles unless billionaires take a hit first.
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u/pepthebaldfraud 1d ago
I just don’t think that me driving an electric car makes any difference at all. It’s so pointless. China pollutes like crazy, Germany burns coal like crazy. Taylor Swift flies on a private jet.
What does me driving an electric car actually achieve? Especially for those who are poorer, why should they face unnecessary costs? I can afford to switch but I’d rather drive my pollutomobile in an act of defiance.
I just think it’s a joke how we’re supposed to care about reducing our carbon footprint and all that bullshit when there’s big freighters and ships and all that. Even if everyone in the UK cut to 0 it makes zero difference. Environment is just people wanting to be holier than thou
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u/13esq 1d ago
No one rain drop causes a flood: As more people move to electric, the benefits grow.
Saying "well they're doing it so why shouldn't I ?!?!?" Is toddler level logic and defeatist.
If you truly think we're past the point of no return and that we're fucked anyway, then yh, why bother. But some of us retain hope no matter how slim the chances seem.
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u/Rowdy_Roddy_2022 1d ago
I think there's still a debate to be had here though.
It's true that on a global scale, private jets contribute far less to climate change than road transport (approximately 1% versus 10%). But their per person impact is disproportionately higher. A two hour private flight is the equivalent of someone driving a petrol or diesel car for 6 months. So your average return private charter is the equivalent of an average person driving their car for a whole year.
So yes, while we all need to play our part, I think it's a reasonable question for your average worker to ask. Those with the broadest shoulders need to bear more of the burden and so HEAVILY taxing private flights - and using that money to invest in electric car infrastructure - would get far more people on board with the change.
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u/No-Tooth6698 1d ago
It sounds as if you think it's not worth encouraging the move over to electric vehicles unless billionaires take a hit first.
It isn't.
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u/Interesting_Try8375 1d ago
Carbon tax, hit everyone. Double it on luxuries like flying. Yes I know it will make some things like cars more expensive, that is the point. Pay for the damage you are causing.
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u/13esq 20h ago
I'm not against that.
For instance, I think it'd be a good idea to scrap road tax and move the duty across to fuel. That way, the people who use the roads the most, pay the most, and big gas guzzlers will also be hit much harder than small, fuel efficient cars.
If an equivalent of this idea could be applied to private jets, I think that'd be great, it's not like these things would be cost prohibitive to billionaires.
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u/Own_Chocolate_6810 1d ago
Car tax on new ICE cars going through the roof which will ease them out as it will cost to much to tax a brand new ICE car in the first year of ownership. The end is nigh 🤣
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