r/vegan • u/Comfortable-Nail5364 • 1d ago
Curious
How do you deal with the societal backlash of being vegan? Is it tricky eating out? I am not vegan myself but looking into it. There are quite a few things I believe would be easy to swap out, but many things have additives or traces of dairy and the like. Do you shop vegan exclusive stores only? Looking for stories and suggestions, thanks.
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u/Androgyne69 veganarchist 1d ago
Society has made it so that solidarity with other animals comes at a societal cost - this is across everywhere. Some issues are regional though, so vegans may or may not face problems 'eating out'. Most of us don't shop exclusively at vegan stores - they broadly don't exist.
The only thing we can do is lean on each other, take personal accountability when we fuck up and continue.
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u/MassiveRoad7828 1d ago
Watch dominion
The very minor inconvenience of being vegan is nothing compared to the 1 trillion individuals tortured and killed for food every year in the animal holocaust
There has been societal backlash against every group of people that sought to change society
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u/h3ll0kitty_ninja friends not food 23h ago
This. Any minor inconvenience is literally nothing compared to the nightmare that animals go through.
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u/True_Requirement3 abolitionist 12h ago
“There has been societal backlash against every group of people that sought to change society.” Such a good reminder.
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u/IntrepidRelative8708 vegan 1d ago
I'm three years into veganism and haven't experienced any backlash whatsoever.
I'm not preachy and my family and friends are respectful people who I guess know me well enough to understand that if I take a decision such as this, I've thought it through thoroughly and know the topic well enough to make an informed choice. Specially since I'm the one with more knowledge of human biology and health among my friends and relatives, and the only one with a Science degree.
Personally, although I try to avoid products that contain any animal product, I don't obsess about trace amounts. And I buy my food in regular supermarkets mostly.
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u/Livid-Description799 2h ago
I hardly get any backlash either. I also don’t go around saying I’m vegan all the time. I just say I don’t really eat a lot of meat and then move on.
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u/Specialist_Novel828 1d ago
Out of curiosity, what do you mean when you say you "don't obsess about trace amounts"?
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u/IntrepidRelative8708 vegan 21h ago edited 17h ago
Well, I live in a country where veganism is still in its infancy, so it's still difficult to find vegan products or products which are labeled as suitable for vegans. So, in the long list of ingredients some processed products have (which I buy only sparingly, because I'm mostly whole food plant based) there might be something I don't fully understand and is sourced from animals.
I consider myself an imperfect vegan. As long as probably 99% of what I eat is vegan, I don't care much about that accidental 1%.
I think that approach is much more sustainable in the long term for the kind of personality I have.
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u/Exact_Mastodon_7803 20h ago
100%. If we were all like this, veganism would have a better rep, and therefore a broader reach, which would be better for animals. That’s the reality. Way too many vegans making the perfect the enemy of the good.
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u/Specialist_Novel828 20h ago
What other positions would you say it's alright to not try and go all the way?
Is 1% of child abuse ok? Are people calling for an end to all domestic violence making perfect the enemy of good? Is it only 99% of Black lives that matter?
If you care about the cause, go all in. Learn about it, don't hide behind ignorance when you have technology at your fingertips. Why compromise your values where you don't have to?
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u/Exact_Mastodon_7803 19h ago
It’s not a compromise. Of course your examples are silly. That’s not what I’m saying. I’m saying it’s about being realistic. I keep reading folks talking about “cross contamination”, and “I won’t eat a vegan patty grilled on the same grill as the meat one” and “I inadvertently swallowed some animal fat, am I a bad person?!”
I’m talking about THAT. There’s a LOT of that. And it’s -silly-.
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u/Daphne-odora 16h ago
I totally agree with you- my main goal is to not support the meat or dairy industry but not purchasing meat or dairy. I don’t like that cross contamination is a thing, but it’s not me contributing to those industries bc I am still ordering the vegan menu items.
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u/Specialist_Novel828 19h ago
The person you agreed with '100%' said that they couldn't be bothered to learn about whether the ingredients they ingest come from animals - How is that not a compromise?
The examples you're providing don't seem to align with the one they did for themselves. You're raising one argument while agreeing with another.
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u/Exact_Mastodon_7803 19h ago
“I don’t obsess over trace amounts” seems pretty clear to me.
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u/Specialist_Novel828 19h ago
It didn't seem clear to me, which is why I asked them to clarify.
Now that I've heard their answer (the one you agreed with 100%), it seems they're more comfortable with the chance of ingesting animal products than they are checking to see if the products they're ingesting are actually vegan or not.
That seems like a pretty clear compromise of values to me. If you're on reddit, you can search a couple ingredients, no?
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u/eJohnx01 vegetarian 13h ago
As an adult survivor of extreme child abuse, I would have been over the moon if my mom had settled for being abusive only 1% of the time. It’s all about perspective, isn’t it?? 😉
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u/Specialist_Novel828 12h ago
Thank you for sharing some of your experience, sincerely. I'm sorry that you had to go through that.
I don't mean to suggest that being 99% of the way there isn't better than nothing - My intention here has simply been to say that we should always try to be open to growth and improvement, that we should always be willing to learn that next bit of information that will help us to treat ourselves and our planet (people, animals, environment, etc.) the best we can.
No amount of child abuse should be acceptable. No amount of animal abuse should be acceptable. Every step towards eradication is obviously a wonderful thing, but the goal should be eradication, shouldn't it?
Do you not want to see a world where no being needs to endure even a single ounce of that pain, callously inflicted by others for their own needs?We don't need to be inflicting that pain, but in an age where the vast majority of people have been brainwashed from birth to consume animal products, it starts with being informed.
Most of the time, the person I've been speaking with can solve their problem by looking up 'Is [insert product] vegan-friendly?' - I simply don't understand why doing the bare minimum research is considered unreasonable and radical when it comes to preventing the abuse of other creatures.
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u/eJohnx01 vegetarian 2h ago
Still, it’s about perspective. Looking up loads of things on your phone in the middle of the grocery store while just trying to get your shopping done might be exciting and invigorating for some, but an annoying p.i.t.a. for another.
When the result is someone being 99% vegan, instead of 0% vegan, that seems like a win for the vegans. Telling someone that the amount of effort that they’re willing to put in isn’t enough or could be better sounds like the stuff vegans get a bad reputation over. ☹️
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u/eJohnx01 vegetarian 13h ago
It’s refreshing to hear from a vegan that doesn’t spend 24/7/365 obsessing and stressing and freaking out about keeping every molecule of animal based products out of their life. I’m sure we’ll both be attacked mercilessly for being honest about it. 🙄 Watch.
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u/IntrepidRelative8708 vegan 10h ago
Thanks a lot for that.
To be honest, I don't care one bit about criticism from random online people. I guess I've reached an age where I'm the only judge of my behavior.
Have a nice Sunday!
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u/Specialist_Novel828 20h ago
The device you used to send out your response can almost definitely be used to look up any ingredients you're unfamiliar with in order to make sure you're well-informed of how what you're eating is produced.
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u/IntrepidRelative8708 vegan 17h ago
I could indeed. I don't feel the need to do so, though.
I don't aim for perfection, just for long time sustainability. The way I'm eating right now I feel comfortable enough to keep it for a lifetime. If I overcomplicate things, I risk very much getting overwhelmed, losing momentum and eventually give up.
Luckily, I don't care at all about what other vegans might think of how I do things. I'm the only judge of my behavior, and I approve of it
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u/Specialist_Novel828 17h ago
Luckily for you, I suppose.
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u/IntrepidRelative8708 vegan 17h ago edited 17h ago
Luckily for me and for the animals, because my attitude probably will mean a lifetime of veganism for me and an example for people around me that veganism doesn't need to be obsessive and dogmatic, and as such, much more doable than they might think.
Reasonable, relaxed vegans like me are so much more likely to allow non vegans enter into conversations with us about what veganism is like for us, how they could move in the direction of eating less animal products, what practicalities and health concerns they need to learn about, etc.
Personally, when I wasn't yet a vegan I would have never dared addressing those topics to a dogmatic vegan.
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u/Specialist_Novel828 17h ago
What's unreasonable about searching up the ingredients on the thing you're buying and confirming they're actually vegan?
You just said you don't care about due diligence, but now you're concerned about helping people move in the direction of eating less animal products - Why should they care about learning if you're not? What makes you think ignorance and apathy are more inspiring than unwavering conviction?
I know you don't care what anyone else thinks, but since we're already chatting, keep putting in the work, keep learning. Doing the right thing isn't always easy, but that's ok - It's not just about us. No one's going to be perfect, but if you make it as far as 99% of the way there, don't let that last 1% fall by the wayside because of apathy, because you've shut yourself off. Grow as you can, but keep growing, and be the example it seems you'd like to be.
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u/IntrepidRelative8708 vegan 17h ago
Unreasonable is having to stop a hundred times while I'm doing my groceries to check Google for every ingredient I'm not sure about, and making grocery shopping a chore I will hate and will might eventually push me to giving up.
I am learning. Your definition of learning is just a different one to mine.
I'm certainly not "shutting myself off" because of that 1%. I'm not apathetic in any way. You seem to be projecting your own personality traits onto me.
I'm not perfectionistic, I'm not obsessive, I'm not dogmatic, I'm not radical, I'm not preachy, I don't strive for purity, veganism is not the center of my life. "Unwavering conviction" sounds awful to me and I certainly don't want that in any area of my life.
I'm rational, reasonable, an extrovert who manages to influence other people through my easy going, friendly approach to different topics, including nutrition.
I've already influenced many people among my friends and family to reconsider how they eat and start reducing their animal product consumption. So much better use of my time and energy than researching every tiny little item in an ingredient list.
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u/Specialist_Novel828 16h ago
I'm sorry to hear making sure you're actually vegan makes you want to stop being vegan, and that looking up ingredients is too radical for you.
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u/goodvibesmostly98 vegan 1d ago edited 1d ago
Hey that’s awesome you’re thinking of going vegan! I would highly recommend it, I literally never regret my decision and only wish I had done so sooner.
Honestly people haven’t made a big deal about it at all, a lot more people are vegetarian or vegan these days, so it’s not unusual.
It’s easy to find vegan options or fully vegan restaurants on Happy Cow
I don’t shop at vegan only stores, just the normal grocery store. While you do have to check labels at first (or you can just swap stuff out gradually), now I don’t have to check labels when shopping most of the time because I know which staples are vegan or not.
If you’re interested, here’s my copy/paste of resources for getting started:
- Beginner’s Guide to Veganism
- Plant-based protein – A simple guide to getting enough
- Balance Your Vegetarian /Vegan Plate
Free recipes!
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u/Solid-Owl134 vegan 10+ years 1d ago
I really don't experience it, but then again I'm an old guy and I think people defer to me because of my age.
Give it a try, take it slow. Every little bit helps.
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u/rabidmillennial 23h ago
I got good at this. The reason's I give for being vegan are "I've heard it's good for my health, the planet, and I don't know but maybe the animals". Humor. You'll find a set of people want to argue with you and make you justify your diet repeatedly. They are annoying. Start nice since other people can here you. After recognizing these people you can start short cutting it by saying "can we just get to the part where you say you don't care and you like the taste of meat?". Another line I hold dear is "I've learned a good way to make friends is telling people what to put in their mouths". This goes both ways, our values won't change the world in a day, but our values are ours to hold.
I suggest you strongly avoid a few types of restaurants: the new burger or chicken joint. Most every place with house and sometimes shack in it's name, e.g. Seafood shack, Fish house or Steakhouse. While your friends will want to assure you "I'm sure there's something you can eat or they can make something special for you" you will almost certainly end up with maybe fries and a mediocre-to-bad chopped salad. It's not worth it to sit around and watch your friends gorge themselves while you are overcharged for bad food and need a second meal after. Ask to meet afterwards or leave early to take care of yourself. Real friends will start to consider your diet when suggesting a restaurant. Let the ones who don't disappear quietly into your past.
Don't split meals with carnies. You didn't eat it you don't have to pay for their gluttony. They will claim you're the problem and people are more chill to just go along. We'll get you next time. Your food will almost always cost less. Ask the waitstaff for a separate check up front. If you can't have one, let your pals know you'll sit it out.
I don't shop exclusive vegan stores, but plant based restaurants or restaurants with the gumption to put actual Vegan label on meals are good. I call myself a lazy vegan not because I want to support the animal abuse industry, but because sometimes it's just not possible to find food that isn't made in a factory that uses other ingredients. If it doesn't explicitly contain animal, I'm good at that. If we're honest, insects and rodents end up in a lot of processed foods. That doesn't negate our veganism, only a troll believes it does.
For groceries you'll have to try a lot of alternatives to find those you like. Some people like Daiya some people can't stand it. Same with coconut vs tofu vs almond based and so on. Aged cashew cheeses are tasty, if you ask me. Most of what people consider tasty about many meals actually come from the plant or mineral based seasonings and microbes like yeast and bacteria. If you find a favorite meat substitute when dining out, ask them what they use. Sometimes you can buy the same thing at a grocery or restaurant supply.
If you're into fitness I recommend Brendan Frazier's Thrive Fitness book.
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u/NeighborhoodNo60 1d ago
It's exhausting trying to eat out, especially where I live now.
If people make rude comments, I tell them that I don't think anyone needs to be murdered for me to eat lunch. Usually shuts them up. Nice, genuine people I actually talk to and give my reasons in a nice way, maybe I'll make them think.
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u/NoCountryForOld_Zen 1d ago
Generally, society doesn't give a shit that I eat plants.
Those few rubes that do care, I ruthlessly make fun of in public.
I have very few problems eating. Your typical Walmart has a produce section full of fresh food to eat. Most restaurants will have something vegan to eat if you ask nicely but I try to find vegan restaurants or restaurants that have vegan options. It's not as hard as it used to be .
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u/fiiregiirl vegan 1d ago
When you personally decide to no longer see animals as commodities, it becomes very easy to avoid animal products.
Any grocery store will have a vegan covered: grains, nuts, veg, fruit, beans, lentils, usually tofu, vital wheat gluten for seitan, oats, cereals, plant milks
Navigating social situations can be difficult in the beginning, for sure. You’ll be met with lots of questions and concerns. It’s okay to say you don’t know the answer to some questions! “Avoiding animal products just feels right for me.”
You’ll get used to looking at ingredients. Many nonvegan ingredients are allergens so a quick check of contains: …. at the bottom of the list is convenient. I do not worry about may contain lists, this means the processing plant has this allergen and none is actually in the product.
Check “vegan” on your city’s subreddit for eating out suggestions. Look at fast food or chain restaurant guides to vegan options . Search “vegan” in your map app for reviews with the word vegan at establishments. It does take some learning and planning. All life changes at hard at first.
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u/Bay_de_Noc 23h ago
Eating in restaurants can be hard. I usually check menus ahead of time. I know the places that have the things I like so I tend to go to them more often. I don't even know what a vegan exclusive store is. I just shop at normal grocery stores ... Publix, Sprouts, even the big box stores like Costco and BJs. It seems like every store has a decent variety of vegan items now ... not only fruits, vegs, beans, lentils, rice, but tofu, vegan butters, cheeses and milks. Most stores have meat substitutes ... from burgers to wings to "shrimp". Yesterday I bought vegan queso dip. There are many vegan frozen prepared meals that are really good. You might have to read some labels in the beginning, but once you get rolling, its pretty easy to be vegan these days. I'm a pizza lover and there are several pizza places around me that make vegan pizza. I make pizza at home at least 3 times a month and it is delicious. The vegan cheeses are wonderful ... my pizza favorites are Violife Mozzarella shreds together with Miyokos pourable mozzarella ... that combo on my pizza is divine!
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u/extropiantranshuman friends not food 22h ago
not sure what 'backlash' you speak of - unless it's people selling animal products - in which I do my best to help them find vegan alternatives, which does lead some sellers to change to the vegan way.
I can't do it alone - so I ask others to help me out with it.
Most other people just don't know what veganism is and tries to figure it out - and I try to help them, if that's what you also mean.
I do try to and advocate for others to shop at vegan only stores (I made a whole list in r/veganknowledge ), but I might also forage, do r/vreeganism , trade, etc. to get what is needed and let others know about alternatives too, so people aren't without.
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u/yellowduckie_21 21h ago
The best thing to do in social situations is to just bring food and offer some to people. If they make comments, don't let it get to you. You're choosing what to put in your body, and it just happens to not include dead animals.
Honestly, depending on where you live, it might be tricky to eat out at 100% vegan places. Just do your best and ask them for the vegan options.
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u/kjfacilities-maint 20h ago
I've been vegan for 8-years. I don't enjoy eating out because I find people loud, rude, and annoying. I don't have any problem finding vegan options, and I eat more variety now as a vegan than I did eating the S.A.D. I shop for groceries at regular stores, no problem.
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u/Exact_Mastodon_7803 20h ago
What kind of backlash is there realistically? People laugh at you? Make them understand that they would never ever find it ok if it was dogs being treated like that. To which they might reply some bs along the lines of “but dogs are companions”, to which you say it’s not about what WE think of them. It’s about their own lives.
There are easy comebacks for all the dumb shit people say: “bUt PrOTeIn”, “it’s unhealthy”, “tell that to a lion”, “plants have feelings”, “you’re killing just as many bugs harvesting crops”. All easily debunked bs. Just stay factual. They love to paint vegans are overly emotional. In reality the facts are absolutely in veganism’s favor.
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u/FreckledCackler 20h ago
I haven't experienced backlash, but I had always always always been one of the most "go with the flow" "eat whatever" "do whatever" personalities. So it has taken some time for me to get used to it, and for others to, but I don't think it has been backlash. Awkward & uncomfortable at times, for me, but I'm getting used to it. I stopped drinking alcohol 2 years before going vegan, so had experience with a pretty significant lifestyle change.
I shop at any store. I'm learning more about best restaurant options. I've learned to try to prep in advance if needed, and the more I travel as a vegan the better I'll get at communicating with people I'm traveling with or hosts, etc. and the more confidence I'll build.
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u/Comfortable-Nail5364 18h ago
Haven't been able to reply properly but I am reading through everything. Thanks so much everyone! This is really helpful.
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u/Daphne-odora 16h ago
I don’t get much or any backlash from my friends or family. Not too hard to eat out, I look at menus before I go so I can weigh in on which restaurant we choose, I am the only one eating vegan in my family so we usually choose places that have both options. I will say though that I probably have it easier as I live in a city in the NW US. I have found that the acceptance and offerings vary by location. Even in other places though, there are plenty of good and easy options from the grocery store. So I would say don’t let fear of the “difficulty” of it stop you.
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u/Aretoblame 5h ago
No need to go “out”. If you crave or think you need to be near and liked by other people, better grow about 2 extra inches of skin and wear ear plugs. (Vegan for 15 years.. wish it was 50).
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u/PickReviewsMovies 1h ago
I still shop fairly normally, I'm just more careful with labels. I hold my breath in certain areas or stores that reek.
As far as socially, the smells are the most difficult for me. I don't want to really smell meat or even dairy most of the time and I definitely don't want to eat near it so that's pretty limiting and I go out way less than I used to, but I consider that a good thing. Having to be more cautious about random ingredients in general I think helps you get to a more grounded and practical lifestyle because eating out all the time is egregious anyway and a lot of chain places that have plant-based options are still not the greatest places to give money to and they are not that healthy.
As far as general interactions with people, I usually just ignore them when they talk about going to the zoo or aquarium and I really don't engage with people much about the moral reasons why I'm vegan I just tell them I don't want to consume animals. I'm still surprised myself at how disgusted I am by animal products so usually if I convey any personal feelings when asked that's what I say because I think it resonates harder with people anyway and makes them less defensive when you bring up moral imperatives.
My job helps me a lot socially. I move heavy furniture that nobody else wants to move and I almost never get crap for being vegan because I look like I play football and eat a lot. I still get people saying really stupid stuff to me but it's more few and far between then a lot of other people's experience based on all of the negative interactions I read about on this sub.
For me when I started just trying a plant-based and realize that it was not only possible but pretty easy that's what opened the door for me to realize that I don't have to participate in a system that to me always seemed cruel and unusual. It wasn't even something that I thought in the front of my brain like I need meat and dairy to be healthy, it was mostly something I felt, and I grew up in the '90s when I had never heard of a vegan and like half of all the vegetarians I'd met were unhealthy looking, but we're all kind of malnourished in the southern US just because we are all so dumb about basic nutrition and some people are just fatter or tanner and some are skinny or pale. I also just drink a ton of dairy milk growing up and couldn't imagine not drinking it, but years later maybe it was just all those hormones that made me a 6'2 goliath lol.
After a couple of weeks of plant-based at a moving company I used to work for I felt lighter but I did not feel weaker and was just as strong as always and even felt like I was recovering faster. It's not important that I feel like a plant-based diet made me better it's more like I felt less unhealthy. I still reserve the right to eat like crap for a week until I realize I feel so much better when I'm eating like veggie chili instead of just junk food heated up in the oven.
Probably interacting with other vegans is just as weird because I just feel like in my region and my upbringing it's a bit more fringe so a lot of vegans I meet are into other kind of outlier philosophies.
Also I'm more paranoid now because of how many times I've accidentally consumed milk just because it was in something I would have never guessed would need to have milk in it.
Overall even though nobody really gives me a hard time there are so many little things that are just still awkward. Like I know there are lots of animal products I can't avoid and I know a lot of cheap furniture just uses fake leather but I still don't like using it and at work I have to be really careful with people's leather if they have any and occasionally some a****** has a huge stuffed animal or a bunch of bleached antlers that they expect me to move for them or they will start cooking bacon while I'm working in their house and I don't hide how grossed out I am. I hate driving or riding in other people's cars for a lot of reasons but hate the feel of leather car seats and steering wheels. My truck steering wheel is just a bunch of hockey tape lol
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u/moonsal71 1d ago
I saw written on a meme:
"Kill a dog: animal abuser
Kill a pig: normal
Kill neither: extremist"
If showing compassion means being an extremist, putting up with some scorn and hostility, then so be it. At least, when I go to sleep, I'm at peace, as I'm living according to my values. Trolls are irrelevant. It's been over 30 years for me and I never wavered once, as I could never eat my friends.
Remind yourself of the why and the execution won't be that hard.