r/FlashTV • u/maruf99 Captain Cold • Jul 20 '21
Discussion [S07E18] "Heart of the Matter, Part 2" Live Episode Discussion
Trailers
Episode Info
The Flash enlists a host of speedster allies, including Iris and his children from the future—Bart and Nora West-Allen – to end the speedster war and defeat a deadly new adversary: the villainous Godspeed.
Cast & Characters
Discussion
Spoilers:
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u/SerRonald69 Jul 21 '21
Iris: "Are the other forces coming too?"
Nora: "No. We don't have that kind of budget."
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u/wisconerd Jul 21 '21
Do they leave baby Jenna locked in her room at all times ?!
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u/BuckeyeGuy16 Jul 21 '21
Jenna from the future is the next villain because of this treatment
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Jul 21 '21
The singing lol... Why.
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u/Gold_Media_6195 Jul 21 '21
Yeah he should've killed his dad then did a back flip
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u/Gateskp The Flash Jul 21 '21
LMAO, Barry not anticipating Thawne KILLING Godspeed. HAVE YOU MET THAWNE, BARRY?
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u/AmazingTechGeek Zoom Jul 21 '21
Wallace said there would be a cliffhanger that teases Season 8 and leave viewers satisfied.
He’s just another Flash producer to me now.
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u/trakrad99 Jul 21 '21
Maybe Thawne was the tease for next season? I would be happy with the final season mirroring the first.
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u/CiceroTheCat Jul 21 '21
I really was wondering if they cut off an end segment.
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u/AmazingTechGeek Zoom Jul 21 '21
It happened to the Season 4 finale with a cut Cicada tease
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u/JK652035 Jul 21 '21
What exactly was the point of the Joe/Kramer subplot?
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u/Tandiaman Jul 21 '21
Jesse L. Martin has nothing else to do, so he needs a subplot or else he'll be completely useless.
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u/SchwarzerRegen123 Jul 21 '21 edited Jul 21 '21
I wished that they could have actually given August time to organically develop as a character to arrive at becoming Godspeed rather than force-feeding us a motivation in 5 minutes.
Edit: Removed a repeated word
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u/Silent_Bobert Barry Allen Jul 21 '21
Yeah if they would have placed him in the show once he was introduced in the comics just as a minor cop character just reoccurring here and there as a friend to Barry on the police force and then bam Godspeed it would have been great
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u/PlanckQuarkTheory 🩸 Bloodwork 🩸 Jul 21 '21
Fuckin hell it’s Power Rangers
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u/alphabet_order_bot Jul 21 '21
Would you look at that, all of the words in your comment are in alphabetical order.
I have checked 100,568,034 comments, and only 26,634 of them were in alphabetical order.
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u/snoogle20 Joe West Jul 21 '21
Why do they always go with production that sounds so obviously studio recorded? Make it sound like he’s singing live in that room.
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u/Sentry459 WE BACK BABY! Jul 21 '21
Barry's faster than Thawne
Proceeds to watch Thawne run away
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u/AP-FUTChemist Jul 21 '21
I swear the writers came up with as many ideas as possible and used darts to write the story
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u/BornAshes Jul 21 '21
Finally a Deus Ex Machina that kind of makes sense with the Speed Force juicing them up a bit
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u/Locke108 Jul 21 '21
Are Cecile and Joe not married? They know they have a kid right? That’s not rhetorical they haven’t mentioned him since Crisis.
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u/WizendSage78 Jul 21 '21
It’s been so long since they mentioned Jenna you forgot shes a girl.
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u/inksmudgedhands Jul 21 '21
By Grant's expression and his little head shake, that was Carlos adlibing the "10 points."
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u/BornAshes Jul 21 '21
Everyone forgot their lines and they just filmed it and kept it
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u/BornAshes Jul 21 '21
"I got faster, didn't you?"
Big Dick Barry in the house! The LOOK on Thawne's face holy shit!
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u/Welcome--Matt Barry Allen Jul 21 '21
Regardless of anything else, I think we can all agree that Barry absolutely clowning on RF after getting like 5 speed boosts was really cathartic to see
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u/CiceroTheCat Jul 21 '21
"Ours is a friendship that was struck by lightning" ok that was a damn good line, you go Iris
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u/SherlockBrolmes Jul 21 '21
So now Joe and Cecile have to pull an Oliver and Felicity
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u/BuckeyeGuy16 Jul 21 '21
I will take back every negative thing I’ve ever said about this show if Oliver and Felicity kick in the door and ruin this wedding again.
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u/inksmudgedhands Jul 21 '21
Wait, what? I want to know what went on in the writers' room.
"We need to end this season with a song!"
And where is the background music coming from? No one is playing any instruments.
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u/CaptainQuark420_ Jul 21 '21
To be fair, when you hire a Broadway star onto a show, you can't be surprised if some singing occurs
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u/Sentry459 WE BACK BABY! Jul 21 '21
Less let's give the psychotic villain what he wants, I'm sure this will work out fine.
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u/neoblackdragon Jul 21 '21
I know why he's not there but you know, you'd think Wally would be there as a big gun.
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u/Cubbles11 Jul 21 '21
Speedbuilding reminds me of being a speedster in a LEGO game
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u/TheLieLlama What the frack? Jul 21 '21
First killing the Hindu God of Speed, now the Punjabi God of Speed.
Flash really be hatin' India. /s
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u/dustyrc Zoom Jul 21 '21
Is this the first time we’ve never gotten a cliffhanger?
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u/twoonezeoro Jul 21 '21
so we just act like that wasn't weird when their future children attend their parent's wedding before they are even born yet, love that thawne is back but he will definitely make barry go nuts when he has a plan and time.
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u/Chad_D_722 Jul 21 '21
His Godspeed voice gives me Green Goblin in Spider-Man 1 vibes for some reason.
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u/Ygomaster07 Crisis On Infinite Wells Jul 21 '21
I'm really enjoying the performance by the actor playing August. Probably the mvp of this episode for me honestly.
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u/superbat210 Jul 21 '21
Now I love a musical number but like this seems like the sort of thing that should play over a montage of the ceremony rather than flashing to the character’s faces lol. This feels kinda awkward
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u/Travism1486 Jul 29 '21
Literally from clones to a big bad to a dead guy coming back to life to a light Saber battle to a renewal ceremony. Like what the hell.
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u/RockyLeQc Jul 21 '21
So, godspeed is faster than Barry but gets neutralized by Thawne and then Barry is faster than Tawne? What the....
Also, why did not the godspeeds get charged by the shurikens and other forms of lightning?
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Jul 22 '21
Season 7 episode 18 brought back a fan favourite villain who was the big bad in the first and most successful season of the Flash, The Reverse Flash also known as Eobard Thawne. Brought back in order to defeat Godspeed.
My Thoughts :
Although the battle itself felt underwhelming as it didn’t really show an actual link between Thawne and Barry its always nice to see Thawne as he remains unchanged physically and mentally through all the 7 seasons. Thawne continues to get people on the edge by constantly challenging Barry and Team Flash. However, this time Thawne was slower and dealt with fairly quick. Which leads me to my main point that next season will be the last season of the Flash as Thawne will now go into training or something of the sort to get faster and faster ultimately leading to a final showdown between The Flash and Reverse Flash. This would bring the show back in a circle as it would make Flash vs Reverse Flash the first and last big bad and honestly I would be delighted if that is the case since these 2 have a story and timelines backing up the extreme hate for each other and are always fighting through the entirety of time.
I would want to see a higher budget for the sake of the last season and to honour the legacy of the great cast and the characters they play. I would also like to see a deviating plan of Thawnes comparable to of that from the first season and I would like to see Thawne to do some real damage thus making Barry go over his limits.
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u/BornAshes Jul 21 '21
Daddy
Mommy
Big Woman
Little Woman
Was there a fucking gas leak in the writer's room during Quarantine or did the writers just lose themselves in a bunch of fucked up anime?!
......oh right I watch Evangelion....NEVERMIND!
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u/BuckeyeGuy16 Jul 21 '21
I really thought Joe and Cecile got married at some point
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u/Shane8512 Jul 27 '21
This whole season was a mess. Bits of Godspeed showing up every now and then. Then the last few episodes are just like, he's the big bad now. I feel like the writers were making up the script each week. Also this season was like 60% filler episodes. Not saying the show was ever the best but it really has declined over the last few years and exponentially in this last season.
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u/tangibleguy Jul 30 '21
Barry deflects first punch and throws Thawn “Sweet here comes a dope battle where Barry kicks ass” *Thawn runs away” 😐
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u/signum_ Jul 21 '21
My god this shit was all over the place. I'd kind of given up on the season with the whole forces fiasco but god damn.
August was such an amazing character in the comics, and the way they did him dirty here really disappoints me. Maybe this version could have been better if they hadn't done the introduction, plot and conclusion of the literal season big bad in just the finale. It really felt like they got a different team of writers for each episode and only told them the overarching plot. It's so weird.
And wtf was the final fight? Phantom Menace? It's so out of nowhere. The only redeeming factor of this entire season was the appearance of RF at the end, even if it wasn't executed very well(s).
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u/optimisticpsychic Jul 21 '21
I like hammyness as much as the next guy but it just seems out of place to me.
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u/-ThatGuy882 Jul 21 '21
“So how much insanity can you fit in this episode?”
Writers-“Yes”
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u/Sentry459 WE BACK BABY! Jul 21 '21
Was that the first season ending without some kinda cliffhanger?
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u/wawawanna Jul 22 '21
This was the worst season of the show. After the boring forces arc, we got excited for Godspeed, but August Heart was really bad. I find Eva McCulloch a better villain. The only good part was Thawnes appearance.
I really hope they make it like Arrow, after a crappy season to end it with a shorter but iconic season. Evrn Thawne is back and it should be great to base season around Flash and RF. I wouldn’t want it to last longer than Arrow.
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u/c00lcoolc00l Jul 30 '21
I thought it was a cute episode. Kind of random sure, but cute. I liked the vow renewal and the flashtime kiss, we've needed that. I even liked the kids because honestly Flash feels like a Dad now, a Dad who needs his kids in his life. I also liked Impulse because he's such a joyful character, and this show has lost a lot of joy with all the tragedy.
The main thing I really disliked was the lightsabers, it doesn't make sense. It's not Barry's aesthetic.
The whole Thawne thing was weird, I thought since Godspeed was now organically fast they could just trap him in the pipeline or Big Nora could zap away his powers. Or the still force could slow him down. Like a bunch of other things than Thawne, but his last look was sinster and promising.
I liked Cecile this season but why are her and Joe never together?
Tbh, the thing that got me this entire season is-- WHERE THE HECK IS CECILE AND JOE'S BABY?! Like she aint off meditating with Uncle Wally-- does anyone ever pay attention to her or worry about her while they're off gallavanting the world?
You'd think you'd see evil speedsters and worry about your baby. Be stuck in a mindjail--worry about your baby. Poor baby, no one loves her.
Also, does Barry....does he still work at CCPD?
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Jul 30 '21
This was painful like the whole season. So they don't have any budget anymore? How many flash episodes without the flash were there?
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u/NomadofExile Kid Flash Unmasked Jul 21 '21
Taking bets on how quickly this move is never used again...
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u/Creative-control Zoom Jul 21 '21
Whatever happened to Joe and Cecile’s daughter?
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u/SyedAwad Reverse Flash Jul 22 '21
Honestly I've seen power rangers shows better than the last 2 seasons
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u/worstthanpaper Jul 24 '21
how did thawn stab godspeed if his slower then the flash but godspeed should be faster then the flash?
why did the godspeeds that attacked vibe and frost just left and didn't come back after their shield went down??
what was that random explantaion of the speed force being able to delete memories from speedsters why would she not delete his memories of being godspeed and end the conflict?
the shows writing so so incosisent and makes 0 sense this season just proves how much they don't care about logic could have been much better.
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Aug 01 '21
I don’t want the lightning weapons to return they are horrible please don’t return them 😢
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u/Creative-control Zoom Jul 21 '21
Still don’t see the point in taking away Cisco’s re-given powers after COIE if you’re just gonna make him Mecha-Vibe the next season. Still happy to see Carlos back though
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u/KnockNocturne Jul 21 '21
Jesus, seeing Cisco just reminds me of how much we are losing by losing him as a cast member.
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u/JauntyLurker Jul 21 '21
Godspeed really did all this because his juicing didn't make him fast enough lmao
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u/Ygomaster07 Crisis On Infinite Wells Jul 21 '21
The actor for August is over the top and i love it. Just ham it up, I'm all here for it.
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u/Ygomaster07 Crisis On Infinite Wells Jul 21 '21
FLASH FAMILYYYYYYY!!!!!!!!! It was nice seeing Big Nora and Little Nora interact, plus those nicknames are cute. And Bart calling the Speed Force Speed Force Nana was cute.
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u/frankb3lmont Jul 21 '21
I've been watching flash since my early 20s in college and now i feel that I'm too old for this cause for the love of god this writing is insulting my intelligence.
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u/Sentry459 WE BACK BABY! Jul 21 '21
Superman & Lois is better than it has any right to be
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u/Gateskp The Flash Jul 21 '21
Godspeed is FANTASTIC. Damn.
Why the hell didn’t they build him up more before this point??
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u/jakesnake1005 Jul 21 '21
Well the Godspeed story (and pretty much the whole season) was anticlimactic and boring but at least we got another badass Reverse Flash scene 😅
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u/decarvalho7 RUN BARRY RUN Jul 22 '21
Man I can’t wait for the series to end. Terrible writing
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u/Gateskp The Flash Jul 21 '21
PLEASE tell me that Barry’s solution is to call in Thawne
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Jul 21 '21
Barry being too fast for thawne was awesome.
However they messed up the episode with all this wishy washy wedding, singing , everybody smiling and kissing junk.
Didn't even know it was the final until I read it here. I guess the war was godspeed's multiple personalities fighting for supremacy?
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u/soxbox_96 Jul 22 '21
Can someone here tell me if Bart and Nora ever acknowledged allegra as someone they know in the future because they do it for everyone else I think except cisco and if they don't why do you think that is because they made a point of it to tell chester that they knew who he was and is the smartest person they know Bart even telling him he helps him with homework.
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u/sirdody0804 Jul 27 '21
Had no one discussed the fact that they played with damn light-ning sabers..??
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u/tangibleguy Jul 30 '21
That just was too far fetched. Also there’s no way lightning could be made Into a lasso. Lol but speedsters totally obey the laws of physics
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u/vader344 i told you at the beginning... Jul 21 '21
BIG NORA:" I have unlocked your full potential Barry.
Barry:"I dont feel different...."
BG:"it wasnt that much"
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u/BuckeyeGuy16 Jul 21 '21
The speedster battle felt like a power rangers fight scene. I was waiting for the megazords
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u/AP-FUTChemist Jul 21 '21
Imagine not having moderate to severe plaque psoriasis
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u/Silent_Bobert Barry Allen Jul 21 '21
Damn I was hoping it was running home to you
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u/vader344 i told you at the beginning... Jul 21 '21
No dad..thats my line...you sound wierd
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u/gildhunter Jul 22 '21
Does episode really highlighted how little they try in terms of logic anymore. Its always been a show of little leaps, but now they contradict themselves in the same episode countless times. I think this is my last one. Its been a fun ride, I'm just fed up.
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u/SchwarzerRegen123 Jul 21 '21 edited Jul 21 '21
This is just turning into Power Rangers. Next they're gonna fight a giant Godspeed and have to get into their Star Labs mechs.
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u/Frontier246 Jul 21 '21
Nora, your dad risks his life every Tuesday at this point. It's nothing new.
August Heart is like every major Speedster villain at once. He has Thawne's Speedster envy, Zoom's world-conquering aspirations, and Savitar's God Complex. I mean, it makes him nothing like the August Heart from the comics who was spurred on by his brother's murder, but I guess we need a Big Bad to be a Big Bad.
Allegra is tired of pep talks but Chester has one last patented pep talk to let her know that Esperanza made her own (bad) decisions and Allegra shouldn't feel guilty about them.
I am glad that Kramer plotline is finally over. She turns out to be a Meta with copycat powers and it gives her a newfound understanding of being a Meta, so she leaves the CCPD so Joe can probably get her job back. I can't say I hope she returns next season.
"Big Nora" and "Speed Force Nana" feel appropriate way for the West-Allen kids to refer to the Speed Force, even if it's also weird that said Speed Force looks like their biological grandmother and Jay's wife. Granted, Jay also looks like their biological grandfather, come to think of it.
I'm not sure if I needed to see Speedster Iris again, but I guess in an all hands on deck situation we needed a full Flash Family.
Lightning shuriken's, lightning whip, lightning snaps, and a boomerang helmet...jeez, can this show start giving Barry more cool powers?
It was nice to see Jay and Bart finally meet.
Isn't it a heroes job to not give the villain what they want? Especially knowing they would then probably try and kill you? Although I guess if Barry plans for both villains to end up turning on him, it turns out okay in the end?
Barry is so desperate he has the Speed Force revive Thawne for the umpteenth time so Flash and Reverse-Flash can team-up against Godspeed as they duel with lightning sabers they just call up out of nowhere. Although it turns out Barry can't trust a Sith Lord in the end.
Of course Thawne wouldn't let anyone else kill Barry because that's what he's there for. Thankfully Barry has far surpassed Thawne, who hasn't level grinded in a while, and trounces him, although now Thawne has motivation to boost his power up so he can finally kill The Flash, but I guess that will probably hold over for a while, quite possibly unto the final season/series finale.
So Godspeed is in Iron Heights...shouldn't they be taking him back to the future? Won't this change Bart and Nora's timeline? Also, Speed Force can just mind-wipe people connected to the Speed Force? Huh. I wonder if Cecile is going to try to visit him in prison to try and get the amnesiac, innocent, August back because otherwise it feels like there was really no point to that interaction once he goes full bad guy again.
Barry just doing a roundabout way of saying that Nazi's and Olicity ruined their first wedding, but it did give them an excuse to have a proper Flash wedding with the fam (minus Wally and a Wells) and Cisco officiating.
Bart got his dad and his grandpa's beautiful singing voice.
I can't think of a better kiss between Barray and Iris than one enhanced by Flashtime.
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u/occupiedbrain69 Jul 21 '21
Loved the part when Reverse Flash showed up! And the season 1 background score! Though I didn't like the mini marvel copied action scenes I can say maybe.. the snap and the captain America shield throw!
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u/Serdna87 Jul 22 '21
Does Kramer have the ability to mimic multiple abilities or one at a time I think. It kind of reminds me of Peter Peterilli from heroes.
I kind of feel bad for her now.
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u/redjoker89 Jul 23 '21
I got faster Thawne. Thawne runs away. Flash except now where I could catch you and end this now.
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u/Arrow2019x The Green Arrow Jul 25 '21
Godspeed would have been so much better if we met the real August Heart before the final episode...
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Jul 25 '21
The show had already been a little corny for the last few seasons. This one reached new heights of corny and this last episode broke all records. I tought that iris acting like a 6 years old was annoying. Bearable but annoying. That big fat piece of cheese am getting served. I really wish I could think something else than "at least there's only 1 season left" but it is what it is. I hope this last season leaves me with a better taste in my mouth.
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u/Senatic Jul 21 '21
Holy shit was this the most cringe episode in all of flash or what?
This is some real dumpster fire level writing. The only good part about this episode was Barry slowmow super speeding Thawne's punch, but the epicness of that moment was vastly overshadowed by the fact that THAT SHIT SHOULD HAVE BEEN HAPPENING CONSTANTLY. And if Barry was that much faster then Thawne, and Godspeed was that much faster then Barry, then how the fuck did Thawne put up any resistance. Godspeed should have been able to do the same thing to Thawne like it was nothing.
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u/IDKwutToPutHereee Jul 21 '21
I can’t be the only one who enjoyed the Kramer/Joe subplot, right? Even if it was pointless.
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u/Tiamore97 Jul 21 '21
Me too, just when she started to become interesting with her newfound power, then she's leaving, that really doesn't make sense.
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u/CiceroTheCat Jul 21 '21 edited Jul 21 '21
"the impossible's your thing" I hope that line is included in voiceovers for promos next season
eta: also a nice callback to the backdoor pilot schtick/ season 1 "I became the impossible" voiceover
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u/inksmudgedhands Jul 21 '21
OPRAH VOICE: You got speed powers! You got speed powers! You got speed powers!
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u/JauntyLurker Jul 21 '21
"5 times their maximum strength"
Damn, Chester gives a good pep talk
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u/Silent_Bobert Barry Allen Jul 21 '21
I mean isn’t this giving the bad guy the means to kill your whole family?
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u/kingcolbe Jul 21 '21
Cool if that’s how write her off I’m ok with it. Let her go find herself or whatever and give Joe his job back.
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u/Frenzy04 Jul 21 '21
They were using the speed force like they were green lanterns I think they got a bit confused
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u/zeekar Jul 23 '21
So, uh, anyone else get a "I see your Schwartz is as big as mine" vibe from the wielding-lightning-bolts scene?
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u/Imaginary-Shine-5654 Jul 27 '21
So is Impulse SUPPOSED to be annoying or is that just the actor and his dumb face?
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u/thatoneguy112358 Caitlin Snow Jul 21 '21
No time to tease next season's threat, but there was time for a shitty pop song.
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u/TheLieLlama What the frack? Jul 21 '21 edited Jul 21 '21
Organic gluten free speed, with no added preservatives.
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u/SherlockBrolmes Jul 21 '21
So we're getting a significant info dump in the last episode? For the primary villain's motivation? Not great pacing!
This whole "two graphic novel" storyline thing has been a mess.
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u/sirnacreations Jul 21 '21
So is Chester saying that Ultraviolet failed this city?
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u/Silent_Bobert Barry Allen Jul 21 '21
I want her to stop calling everyone her boy
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u/inksmudgedhands Jul 21 '21
Now I wonder who really did his nails. I like the idea of kid's in a coma, let's pretty him up so he can have something positive to wake up to.
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u/AIHacKMal Jul 21 '21
The speed force is pretty useless even though "it" is the most powerful member of the group.
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u/neoblackdragon Jul 21 '21
Well if August get's organic speed then he's linked to the speedforce who can manipulate his powers.
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u/maruf99 Captain Cold Jul 20 '21
In case you missed it, come check out r/NaomiTV, for the new show premiering next year!