Because America is the only place that allows businesses to not pay their employees a fair wage. That and honestly I feel minimum wage hasn’t been revised since 2012 which is pathetic and probably intentional in some way. Booo America im sure others have lost as much faith as me too
the minimum wage has been ignored since the focus of american capitalism moved to shareholder value. the people who make rules don't give the tiniest little shit about people who make anywhere close to minimum wage.
when the concept of the minimum wage was created there was an entirely different capitalist mentality such that the name itself is misleading. It was originally intended to be the minimum wage one could support a family on (one earner) - but in our current era it is defined as the least amount an employer is allowed to pay an employee.
it doesn't have to be this way. this way benefits very very few people but they have enough money to keep enough of us from figuring it out.
Most bartenders and servers that work in the high end service industry where tips are available would have a fit at getting paid a flat rate. A good server or bartender can make way more by being tipped than a set rate. I’m sure you’ll find something else to trash on America about because you’re probably unhappy, but this is a fact.
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Bar High Five in Ginza. They don't have a menu, you just tell them the flavor profiles you like and they will mix something amazing. Keanu Reeves went there and loved it.
No and is really dangerous to be pouring it into a drink like that to be served. Ingesting it can damage the throat and even the stomach lining, resulting in a very expensive medical bill.
The only danger is the liquid nitrogin touching your skin because its soo cold. He should be wearing special gloves. But pouring it into a drink and serving it isnt. Because of the extreme temperature differences it evaporates so fast that u dont ingest it. It cools the drink and is gone, so its safe to use that way.
Source: im a physicist and we make ice cream using liquid nitrogen when we host events in summer lol
Edit: i was making a general statement about the comment above saying that its "really dangerous". I wasnt saying that there are no risks at all. Yes, it can be dangerous and yes there is a lot of proof for that, but it is not always dangerous. Of course you have to be careful preparing food or drinks with liquid nitrogen, but if its done correctly it is safe.
The only danger is the liquid nitrogin touching your skin because its soo cold. He should be wearing special gloves. But pouring it into a drink and serving it isnt. Because of the extreme temperature differences it evaporates so fast that u dont ingest it. It cools the drink and is gone, so its safe to use that way.
Source: im a physicist and we make ice cream using liquid nitrogen when we host events in summer lol
Note: This is misleading!
The liquid nitrogen will not evaporate quickly from the drink (because of the Leidenfrost Effect).
Also, even if cold (−196°C or colder), liquid nitrogen touching the bartender skin is not an immediate danger (also because of the Leidenfrost effect)
As RenaissanceGiant is pointing out, the liquid nitrogen (LN2) will linger for a long time, floating on top of the beverage: it is thermally isolated from the beverage by a thin layer of nitrogen gas produced because of the Leidenfrost Effect.
Have a look at this video, you can clearly appreciate how long LN2 floats on top of lukewarm water. Very roughly from the video, a volume of a few milliliters (say 1-3mL) easily takes more than 5-10 seconds to completely evaporate.
In a restaurant and bar setting, there is plenty enough time for an unsuspecting bar patron to grab the drink and attempt to ingest the drink, including several milliliters of cold liquid nitrogen still at a temperature of −196°C or −320°F.
There are have been numerous numerous reports of severe injuries (a quick Google Scholar search returns about 20-30 relevant results) including gastric perforation that are caused by these kinds of drinks where liquid nitrogen is used for entertainment purposes. At least 17 peer-reviewed case reports of LN2 exposure and/or consumption have been reported as of 2021 in the scientific literature.
There are many mechanisms of injury in action here:
This phenomenon can be explained by the mechanism of barotrauma. In other words, rapid expansion of the evaporating liquid nitrogen is the most significant cause of injury. Liquid nitrogen has a volume ratio of 1:694 (liquid:gas), which generates a large amount of gas even in small quantities. This volume expansion contributes to the rapid distension of any hollow internal organ and ultimately causes their perforation.
Thermal contact injuries upon ingestion or inhalation. There will be a Leidenfrost effect temporarily protecting a biological tissue, such as the external skin or the internal membrane of the mouth/oesophagus/stomach. But the protective effect is weaker and shorter-lived inside the body in contrast to the beverage. If the LN2 becomes trapped, those tissues cool down much quicker: because they are solid, the atoms cannot move around much and their temperature quickly falls down to a value where they do not have enough heat to evaporate or sublimate. Also, the heat capacity for wet human tissues is lower by a factor of 25% compared to water. It takes less LN2 to cool down the same mass of tissues compared to beverage. (This is because of the extensive network of hydrogen bonding inside water that aqueous solutions have a large heat capacity.)
Other mechanisms for the patient’s rapid onset of neurological compromise include a potent stimulus from gastric distension or simple asphyxia from nitrogen gas replacing inspired oxygen in the bloodstream.
Please note: You are correct to say that, in a laboratory setting, LN2 is often appropriately handled with cryogenic gloves, especially with large quantities of LN2. However, when research tasks require dexterity, it's recommended to proceed without gloves as the Leidenfrost effect protects the naked skin for a few seconds against exposure to small quantities of LN2. Regular plastic lab gloves (latex, vinyl, nitril, etc) need to be avoided with LN2 because they block the protection of the Leidenfrost effect. In a bar/restaurant setting, cryogenic gloves like these or these would not be used by the bartender and bare hands are fine with appropriate precautions.
Thanx for the clarification and all the information! My comment wasnt supposed to pla down the risk. I was comenting on the "really dangerous" part which is also misleading. Ive editted my comment to make that clear and refer to this one :)
I hope that if people understand well in which situations there are risks and why, they will be more comfortable and more responsible when they use hazardous substances. Be it to prepare a homemade ice cream, to use it in a research lab, or to prepare a fancy cocktail in a bar. Cheers!
I am a chef of over 10 years, I’ve made ice cream with liquid nitrogen myself. There is a difference between mixing ice cream with liquid nitrogen and just pouring straight into a drink like that.
There are many (more than I care to link) articles outlining the dangers if handled improperly.
Just because you are a physicist and understand the composition of it and how to use it properly, doesn’t mean that millions don’t and will look at this and be like “this is cool, anyone can do it”
Lol exactly. It was adjacent to “there are no dangers with swimming, everyone drinks water and they are all fine”
Sure some of those things are cool, but there are a lot of people that see these things and don’t do any research and end up hurting themselves, or worse, others.
I had the unfortunate luck to watch a man damn near lose his hand to liquid nitro. Luckily, his instincts and the distance from was enough to not freeze it solid when it dumped over. Not exactly the best end to a Saturday night service having to explain to your exec chef why the closing bar tender is in a gurney in an ambulance because we had to have a nitro cocktail for the spring menu.
Needless to say, hide nor hair was seen of anything that dips below -20 (pressure distilled water) has been used afterward.
But that wasn't your original argument. You said it's dangerous to be pouring it into a drink and serving it, not that others would get the idea and start trying it themselves. I would assume (big assumption though) that someone serving these drinks would have the proper training required to handle the liquid nitrogen and make sure the drinks are safe to ingest. To NOT have that would probably open up the establishments to lawsuits.
My argument was plainly that serving it as depicted here is very dangerous, not just because of the average joe wanting to try it with how easy it looks but that if not done right, can cause a lot of damage, if not death.
Being in the industry I’ve seen so many “trained”
Individuals use many techniques, including liquid nitrogen improperly.
You can find plenty of evidence of what you would assume to be trained individuals doing stupid stuff behind a bar, hurting their guests.
There are many people that see these videos and will try this themselves with zero training whatsoever.
Yup, I won't even let our bar use gluten containing ingredients (aside from beer, I mean more stuff that it might not be obviously gluten containing or easy to cross contaminate surfaces with, like a garnish) because I don't have trust that it will be handled with the care necessary to not accidentally fuck up a coeliac persons week (or mine, as a coeliac person myself) so the idea of something that potentially dangerous is just a hard nope.
I understand, but I don't think the "other people will attempt this too" is a very valid argument. That can be said of almost everything on social media - from people parkouring on High-rises, to food challenges, to street fights, to the entire show of Jackass (back in the day). That's not to say it isn't a very real danger, it is (evidenced by the people who ingested tide pods a few years back).
But in regards to how the person in the video was preparing the drinks, was anything done incorrectly or dangerously as filmed? And what should a normal person know about before drinking something like that to reduce the dangers (I'd assume waiting a while for all of the liquid nitrogen to evaporate)? The waiting and just avoiding it in general are the only things I've found during a quick search that can really help.
But in regards to how the person in the video was preparing the drinks, was anything done incorrectly or dangerously as filmed? And what should a normal person know about before drinking something like that to reduce the dangers (I'd assume waiting a while for all of the liquid nitrogen to evaporate)? The waiting and just avoiding it in general are the only things I've found during a quick search that can really help.
In the context of the video, the liquid nitrogen is used to create an opaque and bubbling "fog" and the bartender is splashing the liquid nitrogen around for theatrical effect. The way the liquid nitrogen (LN2) is handled increases the associated risks instead of mitigating them:
The creation of the thick bubbling "fog" (opaque gas floating above the beverage) makes it difficult for the bartender and the patron to evaluate whether the entire liquid nitrogen has finished evaporating in the beverage. This can drastically increase the risks of LN2 inhalation and ingestion for the patron, leading to serious injury.
As a liquid, LN2 is transparent and its gas (gaseous nitrogen, N2) is without odor. The opaque fog can appear as soon as LN2 starts to evaporate (the opacity is due to condensation of ambient moisture) but will persist after the LN2 has fully evaporated so there are no clear visual or sensorial indications to tell that the beverage is ready for consumption.
The quantities of LN2 poured into the beverages are not measured. The amount of time necessary for complete evaporation will be each time different so there is no consistency on which this bartender can rely.
The splashing around of LN2 and the careless pouring of LN2 on the bar countertop increase the risks of thermal injury by contact with LN2. Amounts of cryogenic liquids can become trapped in the clothing of patrons and staff. Cryogenic LN2 can splash in people's eyes and other orifices and become trapped, causing thermal injuries.
No personal protective equipment is employed. Normally, at minimum glasses are employed when handling LN2; no open shoes should be worn; tight sleeves should prevent liquid from entering the shirt, and no skin should be exposed except for the handler's hands. Definitely, the patrons in a bar do not follow minimal precautions.
Objects in contact with cold LN2 can become extremely cold (below freezing temperature) and can cause thermal injuries upon contact, for example, the utensils used to handle the LN2. This is important for materials such as metals, plastics, and wood.
Objects in contact with cold LN2 can become extremely cold, can cool down rapidly, can become brittle, can then fracture easily, can break up in an explosive fashion and project small sharp debris. This is especially important for materials such as glass and plastic.
It is unclear whether cryogenic-safe containers are employed for transport and storage of LN2. Unsafe containers can over-pressurize and explode. Unsafe containers can also break and spill liquid cryogens unexpectedly. Many Dewar and thermos are OK for insulated liquids (hot or cold) but they are not necessarily safe for liquid cryogens. People need to be trained on how to use closed containers to avoid over-pressurization.
It's unclear whether the larger stock of liquid nitrogen is stored safely. Storing LN2 for long periods in an uncovered container leads to the condensation of oxygen from the atmosphere. The liquid oxygen can build up to levels which may cause violent oxidation reactions with organic materials. LN2 should be stored in a large and well-ventilated area with a oxygen monitor and alarm activated to prevent asphyxia by displacement of oxygen in the room.
Hot temperature materials (such as the flaming alcohol) are employed in the same context as the cold cryogenic liquid. Contact between hot objects/liquids/gases with cold cryogens results in rapid expansion of the cold liquid to form a gas with much larger volume, an explosion.
It's unclear whether food-grade LN2 is used.
Those are some few clear mishandlings that I can quickly think about, and there may be more.
From reading a recent report, the United States does not prohibit the use of LN2 in foods; its use in food and beverages requires no training and sales are unregulated, but it's encouraging to see that the FDA has issued a warning in 2018. The report has clear recommendation on how to reduce the dangers.
There should be better regulations around this kind of usage. It is very risky, and the risk needs to be much better managed.
Also, re-watching the video, throwing all that flaming alcohol seems dangerous and unnecessary (it contributes nothing to the beverage). All of those effects are looking beautiful.
It's OK to feature them as tricks in promotional videos for the bar, but it would be careless to perform them with patrons present.
the chef. physicist great if I want to know what the middle of our galaxy smells like (raspberry apparently) but for food that I eat. chef every time....unless it's experimental food. then not a chef but a good chemist
Darkmeown is incorrect when they state that "[...] it evaporates so fast that u dont ingest it. It cools the drink and is gone, so its safe to use that way."
RenaissanceGiant is correct when they state: "I would absolutely monitor it in a drink to ensure it had fully evaporated before serving." and "[...] the nitrogen would remain intact for a surprising amount of time as the evaporation insulates the liquid nitrogen from the surrounding water."
I will go with the physicist on this one. If anyone is stupid enough to drink liquid liquid nitrogen because a guy on reddit said it's safe then that's on them.
Darkmeown is incorrect when they state that "[...] it evaporates so fast that u dont ingest it. It cools the drink and is gone, so its safe to use that way."
RenaissanceGiant is correct when they state: "I would absolutely monitor it in a drink to ensure it had fully evaporated before serving." and "[...] the nitrogen would remain intact for a surprising amount of time as the evaporation insulates the liquid nitrogen from the surrounding water."
Also a liquid nitrogen enthusiast, and agree with you about drinks. We'd pour liquid nitrogen into fountains and pools, and the nitrogen would remain intact for a surprising amount of time as the evaporation insulates the liquid nitrogen from the surrounding water. Also similarly to pouring it out onto a hard surface.
I would absolutely monitor it in a drink to ensure it had fully evaporated before serving.
We also tried freezing various alcohols, and basically reinvented fractional distillation. Water froze before the alcohol, and basically super concentrated it. You definitely wanted to let quick-frozen granitas warm up slightly.
I believe I mentioned it in one of my comments, it doesn’t matter if it’s a bartender, chef or anyone off the street. This stuff can be dangerous to use if not used properly.
You are insinuating that just because they are a bartender, doesn’t mean they know how to use it properly, pouring it at the end like he did could still leave residuals that can be ingested accidentally.
I have in no way, shape or form said that it shouldn’t be used at all.
I have also stated that as a chef, I’ve used it before and that it needs to be used carefully.
And I’ll add that just because you have used it for “sciencey” stuff, it hardly compares to using that as a talking point as to how it can be dangerous to ingest.
Those kinds of comments are how people lose sight of precautions and end up getting hurt.
“I used it in science class once and I was ok, let me pour this into a drink for cool effect and drink it, Aslong as it doesn’t touch my hands I’ll be ok” which is wrong.
A “physicist” commented above saying that it’s completely safe Aslong as it doesn’t touch your hands, which is completely wrong.
I have not insinuating anything, you are insinuating that I did.
I was pointing out that it is clear that that bartender knows what he is doing.
Yes it can be dangerous but not in the volumes this man is using it.
But you are wrong about it not letting it touch you.
Have you heard of the leidenfrost effect?
If liquid N2 is splashed on you , it will not burn you.
The N2 boil8ng point is so low that when it comes in contact with your skin , it is like throwing ice in a volcano.
It will create a vapor layer that will protect you from getting burned.
This is also the reason why ingestion in this bar is verry verry unlikely. The little amount that he poors over the food and drinks instantly boils off.
And that sciency stuff I was mentioning , I use it everyday in large dewars holding around 50 liters.
I had specific training todo so.
And it is apparent you don't really know how N2 behaves.
I found a verry nice explanatory video for you on the Leidenfrost effect.
It depends on what you do. Drinks that contain a high volumetric percentage of alcohol can be chilled to a very unhealthy temperature. Certainly lower than is safe to consume. Unlike ice-cream that solidifies and becomes to hard to for consumption much sooner.
It’s not the liquid nitrogen that’s the issue. Dry ice is the problem. One small ingested pellet can kill you. It’s happened and that’s why no one should use it except for show. It’s irresponsible to serve dry ice in a drink since that day the lady got a peeler stuck in her throat and died.
You should look up the physics teacher who had an honorable mention for a Darwin Award when he tried to demonstrate the safety of swallowing liquid nitrogen. Really funny stuff 😂.
Only danger is keeping you bare hand in nitrogen for more than a few seconds or using inferior gloves. It evaporates so fast that you get a protective layer of nitrogen steam for almost a minute. Source: working in a biolab and having lots of local traditions of having fun with it.
“I turned to the man and asked if it was okay to drink. He said ‘Yes’,” she said. Moments later she knew something was wrong, she told the court. “Smoke was coming from my nose and mouth. Straight away I knew something was not right. My stomach expanded.”
Scanlon spent three weeks in the hospital, where a large hole was found in her stomach. The organ was removed entirely and her esophagus connected directly to her small intestine. Her attorneys say she now suffers from “episodes of agonizing pain” and can no longer enjoy eating.
I saw ice cream trucks called "Atomic Ice Cream" that serve liquid nitrogen ice cream. Its really a nice thing to try, doesn't top real ice cream but it's worth to try!
Assuming you're not being sarcastic, no, you don't drink that. It's gas really and if handled improperly, could cause harm. I don't imagine much of the liquid nitrogen will stay there when the drink gets to the customer.
I was about to comment that as well (it's almost the same price as gasoline in my lab), but then remembered it's still a bar and still will mark it up a hell of a lot.
He pours it from an insulated and open topped container, uses a spoon or other utensil, or has it on some kind of plate or glass. He's not handling it directly, and any minor splashes are inconsequential enough they'll roll off him or evaporate off his clothing quickly.
I'd far prefer to work with liquid nitrogen like that rather than, say, hot oil.
I'm definitely not a fan of him flinging burning alcohol down the bar.
Judging by his speed, most of the liquid nitrogen might be gone when it gets to the customer. There might be 15 additional steps not shown in the video before it's served.
Definitely a show piece. I'm mad I don't have have a reasonably priced hobby supplier any more, my dewar is collecting dust. When I started it was $2 USD/liter, and I stopped when it was going over $10/liter. It was about a 1:1 ratio of LN2 to frozen ice cream, so a $20 fill on my dewar could be good fun.
I'm sorry you didn't dig the drink! Maybe that drink just sucks, maybe it was poorly executed by the person who made it and was undiluted or ingredients were left out.
Those acknowledgements on deck, an old fashioned is basically a straight up glass of whisky diluted with a little sugar and bitters (unless you are in Wisconsin in which case thoughts and prayers be with you).
Whisky is the whole star of the show in that one and if a guest came to complain about there being too much whisky in their old fashioned it would be quite the bridge to navigate.
Asking for an Old Fashioned that doesn’t taste like whiskey is like ordering a pizza that doesn’t have cheese. It’s possible but it defeats the purpose of ordering that drink. There are plenty if whiskey drinks that don’t highlight the whiskey as the main flavor i.e. Whiskey Sour, Mint Julep, John Collins, or Irish Coffee, etc…
You’re right, but it’s more like asking for a pizza that doesn’t taste like flat dough, baked hot and fast: whiskey is the absolute foundation without which you have something different. Maybe good, but not a pizza/old fashioned.
Well said. Former Wisconsin bartender here, every Old Fashioned that was ordered was always followed by me asking “do you want a Wisconsin Old Fashioned or a normal old fashioned?”
An Old Fashion is the perfect balance of ingredients. It is NOTTTTT "just a whiskey with a hint of syrup"
What makes a good cocktail is the balance of the flavors. They create a harmony together.
If you unbalance it, you fucked up.
Might as well just drink a high quality whiskey NEAT.
If you're a bartender who thinks "everything has to be super alcohol-flavored" then you don't know bartending, what you know is how to pour liquor, you never actually learned mixology.
Hahahahahahahahahahbwahahacoughcough why are you so invested in this?
You aren’t even referring to the drink by the right name 😂 but please tell us more about the ethos of what it is as you are clearly an expert. I’m sure you’ve made several.
An Old Fashioned is not a glass of whiskey. That's the entire purpose of the Old Fashioned, is that it is a perfect balance of ingredients that creates harmony. It is not simply "a dash of bitter and a dash of syrup." That's just whiskey with you putting a hint of something that no one can taste.
Whiskey is the star of the show, but it's perfection is the balance. That's the point of mixology. That's the point of bartender school. If I want a whiskey, why would I add anything to it? I'd get a high quality whiskey or bourbon and drink it NEAT, nothing added to it.
Do you also laugh at someone who cuts their alcohol with some ice or water? That's what experts do when tasting bourbon, are they also "diluting it"? No they know how to extract the flavors as a sommelier to understand the subtle flavors in the drink.
Get this some bartenders will use 0.25oz syrup, some 0.5 oz syrup, some will use teaspoons or one cube, some will use 120proof or 115 proof. So there are some different tasting buds involved.
But you know, try it for a while, you'll find through experience, 120proof is silly for mixed drinks. no sweetness is gonna be a drag. If you only taste bourbon or whiskey, what does it mean? It means the alcohol is overpowering your drink.
Oh you put a dash of bitter in it? Who can taste it? No one. You might as well be one of those people who think the orange peel is for flavor rather than garnish. It's a total lie. People have simply messed with the original recipes to ruin the balance.
If I want bourbon or whiskey, I can tell the bartender "hey there expert drink mixer, can you just get me a glass of bourbon neat, i.e., thanks for being a waiter rather than a bartender"
We're so used to believing this lie. Grandma says "a dash of paprika for flavor in this dish"... except no one can taste any smoke flavor from the paprika. It's a ritual, a tradition, an act of pretend--it's not actually flavoring anything.
Sometimes folks will say "yes if you put a lot of sugar into a drink, you are turning it into a drink for fatties or women" or something of that nature... Alcohol turns to glucose in your blood and is already high calorie. You need the kick of the bourbon or whiskey, you don't want it to be just bourbon/whiskey with a dash of nothing.
TL;DR: Balance for the harmony of the flavors. You didn't scam the customer with mostly sugar... And you didn't overwhelm the customer with 3oz 120 proof whiskey with a quarter-of-a-dash of bitter and a hint of lemon and a microspoon of sugar...
I bought a smoked old fashioned, I specifically asked for the smoked version.
They did the smoke, and then I tasted it and it was way too much whiskey.
Old-fashioneds have the same amount of bourbon smoked or nonsmoker. If you order your drinks correctly, maybe the bartender would know what to make you.
Next time ask for a fruited of or more simple or brownsugar depending on the bar.
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Bartender at a place I used to work told the story of a cocky patron who pompously ordered "the most expensive stuff you've got." He blanched when he got the bill and learned he'd ordered a $400 shot of Papi van Winkle.
Dude complained to a manager and got his drink comped. Still, funny story. Some booze is expensive, man.
You're going to pay 100 dollars for that shot of Hennessy that is only 40 dollars for an entire fifth and all because he doused the counter with 2 dollars worth of ignited Everclear.
You could pay less less, but then you might have a bartender who will miss the counter.
... for getting the access code to the website that sells the merchandising. There you can buy another 500$ access to the website that sells the tickets.
You mean $75 x $10 = $750 drink,
Or even $75 x $100 = $7500 drink,
Neither would surprise me,
These drinks, when they are made like this,
Always seem real pricey.
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u/Mango_Tango_725 Nov 09 '23
-Puts flower on top- “that will be 75 dollars”