r/Cartalk • u/One_Reporter8274 • 9d ago
Engine Performance If i change the spark plugs can that make the P0011 go away? And what if it doesnt?
I’ve just bought this porsche cayenne 2006 and I’m worried i may be damaging my vehicle. I’ve only driven 3 days and the car has stalled 3 times and im not sure if i didnt catch it or if im just now hearing a clacking noise (not quite a knock). The person who sold it to me did advise i needed spark plugs but not urgently, he is a “friend” that i don’t think would lie to me like this (ik dumb) and autozone gave me these codes. Not looking for a diagnostic but is it possible that camshaft code may have made this purchase a bad one? And am I possibly damaging my vehicle now that the clacking has begun and/or gone unnoticed? I will replace the spark plugs tomorrow so i will update. Thanks everyone!
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u/walkingman24 9d ago
Whoever sold this to you did one over on you. It's not a "eventually replace spark plug" issue, that's every cylinder misfiring. Its a timing issue. Don't drive it further.
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u/Impossible-Lie3115 9d ago
And this is why you ALWAYS get a pre purchase inspection. $150 would've saved thousands
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u/dinosaurbong 8d ago
How would one go about that?
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u/Impossible-Lie3115 8d ago
You arrange with the seller( whether a dealership or a private person) to have them or you transport it to another mechanic shop. Ask them for a pre-purchase inspection. Usually about an hour to an hour and a half of Labor. And they give you a full report if there was any codes any areas of concern like rust, discolored fluids, leaks, and anything like that. If the seller refuses to do it that is an absolute red flag because of a situation like OP. A shop would've found all this.
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u/MightyPenguin 1990 1.8 swapped Turbo Miata 9d ago
Your noise is coming from the timing chain problem. Spark plugs will not fix that and it likely is what is causing your misfire codes. It may ALSO need spark plugs, but that has nothing to do with the P0011. Sorry bud, used old porsche will be VERY expensive to keep going.
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u/One_Reporter8274 9d ago
It has 101000 miles would it maybe be worth the fix?
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u/MightyPenguin 1990 1.8 swapped Turbo Miata 9d ago
I wouldn't. There is a reason older german vehicles values drop like a rock. You could spend several thousand dollars fixing this issue correctly potentially, and 6 months or a year later likely need to spend several thousand or more again.
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u/Acceptable_Twist_565 9d ago
There's a saying "If you can't afford a new BMW, then you definitely can't afford a used BMW."
Also works for Audi, Porsche, Jaguar, and most sports cars.
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u/alive_nerd 9d ago
Probably better to get it done from outside there’s a guy who did the same repair on his Porsche if you need a reference point
Samrac on yt
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u/somethingonthewing 8d ago
That’s an excellent video. Problem is OP did not get this one for “scrap price”
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u/SeaDull1651 5d ago edited 5d ago
Im going to tell you now, it is not even remotely close to being worth it. Theres a reason luxury cars depreciate faster than any other type of vehicle. They are money pits once the warranty expires. I think youve gotten yourself way in over your head with this one if youre going to autozone and asking reddit if spark plugs will fix that. From my experience as a mechanic, youre looking at potentially a timing issue, or a fuel delivery issue… so big bucks and a lot of work. Idk what you paid for that car, but man cut your losses now and get rid of it. Dont get yourself wrapped up in a money pit. Ive made that mistake. Im still paying for it years later.
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u/One_Reporter8274 5d ago
I agree i let myself get screwed over and im just doing everything i can to get the most life out of this thing but we’ll see
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u/SeaDull1651 5d ago
From what it sounds like, she may not have any life left to give unfortunately. Clacking sounds in an engine are never a good thing, especially if timing issues are involved. Usually thats rod knock, or your piston is going whacky whacky to your valves. Neither are good. Both involve extensive engine tear down. I think youre opening an expensive can of worms. Just trying to warn you. It may be better to just eat the cost of what you spent buying the car, than put more into it to try to nurse it along with questionable outcome. I dont want to think your friend shafted you, but i rather think your friend didnt understand what was wrong with it when they sold it to you (at least from what you stated in your post that they said it just needed spark plugs). You made a bad buy. You live and learn.
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u/One_Reporter8274 5d ago
I see, would it make any difference to drive it till the engine blows or just sell it now and not drive it anymore?
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u/SeaDull1651 5d ago edited 5d ago
Sell it now. Let someone else fuck with it if they have the money/time. Dont drive it any further if you can avoid it.
Id honestly ask if your friend will take it back if you explain the issues with it are far more serious than it just needing plugs, though im guessing the answer will be no. But it doesnt hurt to try if theyre actually your friend. If i found out a car id sold my buddy had issues like this, id either help him fix it if he wanted to keep it, or id buy it back from him. Screwing over your friends isnt cool.
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u/One_Reporter8274 5d ago
Yea youre right im gonna reach out to this guy and hopefully just give it back since i havent paid everything yet but we’ll see so far im 1100 in with 1700 to go
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u/One_Reporter8274 5d ago
I doubt hell give my money back but i honestly rather not pay the rest but we’ll see
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u/SeaDull1651 5d ago edited 5d ago
I guess it depends on his reaction to asking, but be careful if you say youre not gonna pay the rest. If you signed a sales contract with him or bill of sale, youre obligated to pay the balance unless he agrees to take it back and release you from it. You dont want to invite legal issues on top of this whole thing (disclaimer: im not a lawyer, this is not legal advice, please contact a lawyer if you need legal advice for your specific case).
Worst case, you pay him the remaining balance, then turn around and sell it, trade it in, or something along those lines. Get back what you can.
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u/Itz_DiGiorno 8d ago
Get ready to spend 9-10k usd to fix that. Porsche? Nightmare.
And what is really fun about these cars is once you fix the timing, something else will go wrong :)
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u/UsedState7381 9d ago
Doesn't sounds like a spark plug problem, check your engine's timing chain and guides before doing anything else on your car because it's likely a timing issue...If it is then you need to fix it ASAP.
It's could be a expensive repair, but it can turn into a insanely expensive repair later if you ignore it now.
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u/chathobark_ 9d ago
Friend no longer . LOL
This timing code is a timing code 100% of the time
I had it in a 2001 bmw 540i with a v8. It went another 50,000 miles like this then I sold it. But it came after the dude tried to DIY timing chain and guides in his backyard over 2 months with his grandfather
But my timing was close enough and it ran like a top
Yours is not
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u/Evening_Horse_9234 8d ago
VAG group 2.0T engines had similar issues when the magnetic cam position adjuster would fail and it would not keep up with the asked position from ecu. Running rough and stalling from idle/crawl. But anyhow it's 100k miles it's due timing chain in nearest future on a good day and it won't be cheap. Here in Europe we drive our cars a bit longer and chain work would probably set you back 1.5-2k usd with work included.
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u/DadWatchesWrestling 9d ago
P0011 directly isn't really related to the plugs. Yes timing affects when they fire, but changing the plugs won't change or fix timing on its own
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u/Acceptable-Fix-7745 9d ago
Timing chain is stretched, or the chain tensioner is aged. If it makes noise guides are in need of replacement please see a German auto garage unless you have dealership money.
And yes get ready to spend
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u/1337haxoryt 9d ago
Sounds likely mechanically totalled if I had to take a guess, timing jobs aren't cheap especially on something like this
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u/bobroberts1954 8d ago
This is your opportunity to really learn about car engines. A multi cylinder misfire can be one of the most difficult problems to diagnose. Lots of people are saying it must be the timing chain and maybe their experience with this particular engine gives them good reason to think that. But to just dive straight into that is just throwing parts at the problem. There are other possibilities and they should be ruled out before anything is disassembled. First step is a complete tuneup, you have to start with that known good. Then you test compression, and verify spark and fuel firing and sensors. Get a Haynes or Chilton repair book for your engine and follow their diagnostic sequence and see what that reveals. You will want the book if you end up replacing the timing chain or rebuilding or repairing the head anyway. The process isn't insurmountable, just take it one step at a time. When you are done and everything runs great then you will truly own the car instead of the car owing you. Good luck on your voyage of discovery and enlightenment.
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u/EnvironmentalAd1405 8d ago
I can appreciate the "diagnosis before throwing parts." However, based on the codes, step 1 here is checking the timing. If it were an older vehicle with an adjustable cam sensor, I might start there. But on a modern vehicle, nothing is adjustable. Doesn't matter what vehicle with this list of codes a complete tune-up will do nothing. Compression test will show low compression most likely(timing being off does that). This problem is timing related 100% of the time does not matter what engine.
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u/redditsuckshardnowtf 8d ago
No, not a spark plug issue, I'd try a vvt solenoid unless there's a way to check for timing belt/chain stretch, tooth jump
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u/CapnDogWater 8d ago
The thing to note is that if one maybe two cylinders were misfiring then it could possibly be a spark plug or coil issue, but the fact that this many are misfiring tells you it’s very likely a timing chain issue.
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u/Kstotsenberg 9d ago
Low or dirty oil is the like first diag I choose with this code. I would test the VVT solenoids if I wanted to get really serious but looks like you have other issues.
Also I have seen people with terrible habits (never changing the oil) have cars that throw these codes that also cause misfires.
I can’t imagine what your valve covers look like.
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u/TheKuMan717 9d ago
Stretched timing chain. Noise it probably cylinder hitting the valve. It’s done bro.
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u/Mr_Snowbro 9d ago
Looks like someone tried to DIY the timing and had no idea what they were doing.
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u/SnuffRooster186 9d ago
I had the same code a few years ago. Ended up having to replace the timing chain. Good luck.
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u/Wise-Activity1312 6d ago
lol you got fucked over just trusting some person rather than doing due diligence.
It's not plugs.
It's not an air freshener.
It's your timing chain/gear.
Enjoy your $3k lesson that you asked for.
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u/Superb-Tonight-8065 6d ago
You need attached to scanner to car and watch cam cam sensor A. Rev engine and watch cam readings
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u/BlueProcess 9d ago
To add to what everyone else is already saying: Plugs wouldn't all fail at the same time. They might fail around the same time-ish, but not all at once. P0011 is where you need to focus your attention.
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u/skylinesora 9d ago
Have fun spending a good 3-4k on this repair. Hopefully you didn't buy a car you could barely afford.
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u/LargeMerican 8d ago
The...no, spark plugs will not help camshaft out of time lol.
these are not good codes. and it's a Porsche? Oh fuck.
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u/clockwork_blue 8d ago
Timing chain is off. If you are hearing clacking/knocking then changing the timing chain is going to be the least of your worries.
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u/LarxII 8d ago
Your timing seems to be off. Essentially, the spark plugs timing to fire is not aligned with the cylinders being in the correct position when they do so. This allows for more unburnt fuel and an inefficient transfer of power from the fuel being ignited.
Focus in on getting the timing corrected first, spark plugs may need to be replaced due to "fouling" (getting dirty from the unburnt fuel and carbon essentially). Definitely do not drive until it's been corrected. Else you risk some pretty serious engine damage.
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u/OCsray42 8d ago
That “friend” just knowingly sold you a fairly expensive ticking time bomb that they definitely knew was on the fritz of a major issue, like the timing chain. If that cam position sensor code wasn’t involved and there’s was only one or two misfires, I’d say spark plugs could be logical, but this is very clear it’s a lot more than spark plugs. I’d recommend a seeking a mechanic, not driving the vehicle anymore, and finding a new friend.
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u/phasttZ 8d ago
1) it's not a spark plug issue
2) it could be a camshaft adjuster (solenoid), but both banks are misfiring
3) it's a timing issue
Please go to a euro shop. Explain your issue. They should be able to check your timing chain tensioner. These things back out over time unfortunately. If so, you might need to shell out some money.
Stop driving it. You drive a Porsche suv and need to be logical about maintenance. A 3k dollar problem can be a 15-20k engine if you keep it up.
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u/Background-Fault-821 8d ago
This could be timing chain, VVT solenoid or camshaft solenoid. The position sensor could be at fault as well but not likely. The circuitry could also be at fault for the sensor/solenoids. Your friend may or may not have had ill intentions
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u/ImprovementCrazy7624 8d ago
Either timing chain / belt issue or fuel delivery issue as its happening in all cylinders
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u/Rude_Guarantee_7668 8d ago
Go get your money back from your “friend.” That car is absolutely cooked and will likely cost more to fix than what it’s even worth
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u/Jackthedragonkiller 8d ago
All cylinder misfire, camshaft position code, and a clanging sound?
You need a new timing kit and at this point, there’s a solid chance that the camshaft itself, valves, lifters, and pistons have suffered damage from it being out of time.
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u/lovepontoons 8d ago
Timing is out for sure. Every cylinder misfire with cam code. That chain is super stretched.
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u/Ponklemoose 8d ago
When a seller tell you "it just needs this one cheap easy fix" they are either lying or so very lazy that you still don't want their car.
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u/tnygigles66 8d ago
Exactly. If it was such an easy fix they would fix it and charge more.
Looking at that over advanced code says this car was dumped on someone.
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u/Sub-Evol 8d ago
What makes you think changing something that has nothing to do with timing would fix a timing issue
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u/ToilumClogger667 8d ago
No. Changing your plugs wont fix anything. You have a cam phaser, oil solenoid or timing bekt/chain issues.
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u/GoonieStesso 7d ago
I wouldn’t pay more than 2k for an 06 cayenne. I hope your good friend sold it to you for less than that
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u/DavidinCT 6d ago
Let's just say, I hope you didn't pay too much for it.... as a replacement motor might be needed here....
Wow, sorry for your loss...
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u/Any_Flower7521 9d ago
No, but an oil change might
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u/One_Reporter8274 9d ago
I did an oil change recently with a somewhat known shop but now I’m thinking maybe they used the wrong oil or possibly another oil change could clear debris and therefore the issue?
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u/Nice-Bodybuilder-579 9d ago
Unfortunately you are beating a dead horse, timing chain is shot if you hear the noise the job is not cheap to get fixed and the vehicle itself is nearing what’s considered the end of its life before it’s just another beater, personally I would either drive it till it blows up and sell it or replace the motor then or pay the 4-6k to have the car fixed properly and be prepared to spend another couple grand every 6 months to a year to keep it running
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u/One_Reporter8274 9d ago
I’m not sure if this’ll change anything as it seems the verdict is set but i did an oil change before this is it possible they didn’t use the correct oil therefore giving me that timing issue?
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u/ATVisic 9d ago edited 9d ago
The timing of the engine is off. Stop driving it or it'll make it much worse. It's probably already toast if the clunking/knocking sounds from the engine are getting worse. You bought the vehicle running fine with no CEL->Then changed the oil->then the engine light / rattling came later? If that timeline is correct, it's possible the engine was not filled with enough oil. Reduced oil pressure affected the hydraulic timing chain tensioners, leaving slack in the timing chain and slipping.
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u/Individual_Map_7392 9d ago
Glad I’m not the only one that thought this. Sounds like it’s skipped timing.
I know that the turbocharged mazda 2.3 likes to eat timing chains (and the rest) for much of a same reason… lack of maintenance tends to gum up the small orifice that feeds the hydraulic tensioner, slap slap timing gone. Wonder if this is what has happened here.
Also aren’t the timing chains on the back of these motors? If it’s the 4.2 v8? Sounds $$$$
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u/Easy-Youth9565 9d ago
No! The error code has nothing to do with spark plugs. But the issue related to the code could fuck in the spark plugs. Get your timing checked.
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u/dale1320 9d ago
Fix the P011 code (most likely timing chain and related parts) and many if the other codes may get "fixed" by doing that.
Changing spark plugs will NOT make the P011 code go away by itself.
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u/curtass7 9d ago
Most likely a timing chain issue. Pretty major engine issue.