r/Cartalk • u/Expensive-Dealer1640 • 1d ago
Exhaust Is 5000$ for a catalytic converter replacement even close to reasonable?
[removed] — view removed post
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u/isellusedcars 1d ago
That is the biggest ripoff price I’ve ever seen in my entire entire life. at that point, you’re better just selling your Explorer to Carvana and then buying a car in California.
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u/imprl59 1d ago
Do you have the 4 cylinder engine or the V6? That makes a HUGE difference.
I have found the best way to handle this is to find a local independent exhaust shop and get them to quote the work. A lot of mechanic shops, especially chain ones, are going to only deal with bolt on factory specified parts where an independent exhaust specialty shop is willing to source aftermarket and weld them in.
The big gotcha you're dealing with here is that in California the cats have to be CARB compliant and very few of the aftermarket ones are so while you might see a $200 generic cat available for the rest of the country you're stuck paying for $1k converters (plus the shops markup) from Ford.
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u/Expensive-Dealer1640 1d ago
Sorry forgot to include that. I believe mine is the 3.5 litre V6
Edit: I did also research factory parts and couldn’t find anything over 1200$. Could they really mark it up over three times the price? They also mentioned labor would be about 2 hours and I can’t see that factoring in this much.
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u/imprl59 1d ago
On the V6 there's one on each side. Plus we don't know if the rest of the system was mangled when someone put in the aftermarket cats and you're always dealing with bolts and O2 sensors that are a total bitch to get out / probably going to break when you're dealing with an exhaust system, even more so as they get older.
For my market that price is ridiculous, that's why I would look for an independent exhaust shop, but if you're looking at two cats and some pipe and some broken bolts and some California labor rates then it can get really expensive really fast.
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u/Expensive-Dealer1640 1d ago
When you lay everything out I suppose I can understand the price. I had no idea I might need two converters instead of one so that does make more sense. I still feel $5000 is a bit high but i’ll take your advice and look for an exhaust shop. Thank you!
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u/EffectiveRelief9904 1d ago
Absofreskinlutely not, but, welcome to CA and the ridiculous carb / smog requirements. If the cat isn’t a carb approved one, you automatically fail. Even though it passes the emissions test. Your only choice is to buy the expensive California approved one with that “carb compliant” stamp on it
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u/standardtissue 1d ago
Why is that ? Do the CARB compliant cats remove something that they can't test for, so they rely on the assurance of it being CARB compliant ?
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u/stoned-autistic-dude 23h ago
It's just regulated to meet emissions standards. I think it's annoying as I need a new cat for my S2000 right now so I can register it, but I also grew up in the '90s when we couldn't go out and play due to heavy smog so I just suck it up and deal with it. The alternative is way worse.
I just wish we had better programs for the state to help people replace worn catalytic convertors for those who can't afford a new cat.
Also, all these people throwing tantrums about cats are hilarious. Just remove the cat(s), run a test pipe, and replace the cat(s) before a smog and take it off after you pass. Is it extra work? Yes. Does it allow you to keep driving the car? Also yes.
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u/ruddy3499 1d ago
Go to fordparts.com enter your information and that will give you what the dealer charges for your cat
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u/Ayeitis 1d ago
Cheaper to give some tweakers $100 and a sawz-all!
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u/Expensive-Dealer1640 1d ago
I wish we could certify those tweakers to give smog inspections. I’ll slip them a 20$ to pass mine lol, thanks for the laugh
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u/PPVSteve 1d ago
Did you just move or is this a renewal you are doing? Do you know if your car is a CA built car 50 state? Or an EPA certified Car 49 State?
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u/Expensive-Dealer1640 1d ago
Yes I just moved from Wisconsin in late January/ Early February of this year. I’m not sure on what standards it was built but from the way things are going i’m guessing EPA certified 49 state.
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u/PPVSteve 1d ago
So if you can go outside and pop your hood and see if you can find your emissions sticker and that will say on there if is CA or EPA.
If its EPA you may be able to get a waiver from the State Smog Referee (Yes we have those) that will allow you to register itbut if you even need to replace them while in CA you have to replace them with CARB approved Cats.
If however the car is built to CA standards then you need CARB approved parts off the bat to get it in.
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u/Expensive-Dealer1640 23h ago
Sorry i’m a bit confused by your wording. Wouldn’t either option still require it to be replaced?
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u/PPVSteve 23h ago
No if it was a federal car and it had federal aftermarket cats on it the referee would give you a sticker that would get you through the initial and future smog checks. Until they went bad and had to be replaced. At that point if you are still seeking to renew your CA registration then you would need CARB compliant cats on it.
On that sticker they would describe the part numbers that are on there now. So if you ever had a diffrent part number that was not CARB compliant then that would be a fail.
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u/Expensive-Dealer1640 22h ago
Ohhhh, that’s really good to know thanks! I’ll double check and see what’s on the hood. I don’t mind getting them replaced eventually but it’d be very nice to have some extra time and money to do it.
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u/Brett707 1d ago
At summit carb compliant cats are $2k+. And it looks like you may need two so 4 k for parts and you have to remove the manifolds as they are built in.
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u/NotAPreppie 1d ago edited 1d ago
Part of the issue is the requirement for CARB certification. You can't just get any inexpensive catalyst off Jeggs or Summit Racing and weld it in.
But yah, that seems extreme.
Also, only refunding $100 of a $250 diagnostic fee if they do the work seems off. Everywhere ive been to refunds the entire diagnostic fee.
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u/Expensive-Dealer1640 1d ago
I wish I could but unfortunately it’s under financing. I still have to deal with registering it in another state which I also don’t look forward to doing.
Yeah I mean even if I had to pay $150 for a diagnostic I would’ve been fine with it, but making me pay 250$ and holding 100$ over my head is pretty scummy if you ask me.
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u/MightyPenguin 1990 1.8 swapped Turbo Miata 1d ago
You've been to not good and parts cannon shops. The shops that actually put the hard work in to trouble shoot and provide hard testing results to base their recommendations on charge for it. Every shop I ever have been in, assisted with it worked with that gave away the diag for repair were either just code scanning and guessing on most common repair based on that, or they were buffing up the repair bill to hide it and try to appease the customer. The practice needs to die. Modern vehicles are so complicated and any code could have 50 different causes, testing prices for actual research and testing need to become the norm.
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u/tnygigles66 1d ago
Was the converter replaced previously?
And please forgive my reading comprehension. Was the smog shop and the auto shop the same place?
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u/Expensive-Dealer1640 1d ago
I believe it was replaced by the dealership at some point and I don’t believe Wisconsin cares where they got the converter from so I think the problem is there is no paper trail for it.
The smog test was done at a different place. They showed us some prices on converters and even printed them out for us. The converters they showed us were nothing over 200$. It just can’t be ordered online because of California regulations.
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u/hourlyslugger 1d ago edited 1d ago
So if it was replaced by a Ford/Lincoln/Mercury dealership then you can get a copy of the work order from the Ford Owners website and check the part numbers versus the CARB compliant ones.
Also you can easily look under the hood for the emissions label and see if it specifies California/CARB emissions or not.
If it does then the Ford converters installed by the dealership should be CARB certified and compliant.
Exhaust Manifold with Integrated Converter 3.5L engine WITHOUT Turbo
Front—FB5Z5G232A
Rear—-FB5Z5G232B
Converters 3.5L engine WITH turbo
Front———FB5Z5E213A
Rear With California Requirement——-FB5Z5E212E
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u/Expensive-Dealer1640 23h ago
Thank you for this information. I’ll check the hood and see what I can find.
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u/tnygigles66 1d ago
Those converters weren’t CARB certified. Can you see the converters and see if they’re genuine ford parts?
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u/Morscerta9116 1d ago
Go to an exhaust shop. Tell them what you want. To pay a diag fee when you're telling them what you want down and no diag is being done is wild.
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u/CraftyCat3 1d ago
Talk to an exhaust shop and get a quote from them. Seems a bit high, but keep in mind it's going to be expensive - a quick check shows it'll be at least $2k just for the exhaust manifold cats, and that's without any markup or labor.
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u/Quake_Guy 23h ago
Sell your rust belt vehicles if possible in the rust belt, the value drops in half in non rusty areas.
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u/Low_Willow_746 23h ago
My son had a universal cat put on for $600… labor and cat included. We live in California.
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u/Scixzor 20h ago
Speaking as someone who had to replace both cats on a 2016 explorer, at home and in my garage, that price is not exorbitant. You have to drop the drivetrain if it's the same 4wd as mine, plus the engine mounts to get the clearance, and it'll be at least a few labor hours. The parts alone are like 3k, or at least they were when I did mine last year.
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u/Creeping-Death-333 1d ago
You do know the dollar sign goes in front of the amount, right?? It’s $500 not 500$
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u/maufkn_ced 17h ago
Register that mf in Montana and keep pushing. I keep getting the ad here on Reddit.
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u/dmbgreen 12h ago
2017, wouldn't it have to be a stock cats, this seems so wrong. How can replacing something functional be good for the environment.
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u/listerine411 9h ago
You're getting raped, and mandating CARB numbers on things is lethal to consumers in CA. Especially with all the catalytic converter theft going on.
Can you call some salvage yards?
Regardless, $5k is just absurd.
https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=13746517&cc=3434547&pt=5808&jsn=1278
It would be AWFUL if someone figured out a way to stencil that CARB number on an existing catalytic converter that was working perfectly fine. A real shame.
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u/Galopigos 3h ago
They are not stenciled on, they are either laser etched or stamped to a tag that gets welded on with a traceable number on the service tag that a shop has to file when changing converters. Get caught falsifying any of it and you might as well close up the shop.
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u/Galopigos 3h ago
Ok V6 3.5 book time to change both units is 3.9 hrs on the 4X4 version. 2.6 hrs on 2WD.
The parts are FB5Z5G232A @ $950 and FB5Z5G232B @ $944 online BUT most of the prices online that don't include the core charge or shipping in the price. So a part shown @ $767 also has a $250.00 core to add to it.
In my shop you would be at $744.00 in labor and shop supplies, $2,400.00 for the convertors (my price through the Ford dealer)
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u/MWMWMMWWM 1d ago
Hello, former CA smog technician, service advisor, service director here. It is common for a shop to quote you a diagnostic charge that is completely seperate from the repair bill. Its is also common to reduce the repair bill to offset the cost of diagnostic. It really depends shop to shop. It is VERY uncommon for an OEM catalytic converter to be cheaper than an aftermarket part. The reason being is, A: dealerships want to make money and B: with an aftermarket cat, the tech will litterally cut your exhaust and weld in a new catalyst only where on some vehicles, a new OEM catalyst will include all the associated exhaust piping and somwtimes more than 1 catalyst. (I.e much more metal/work than just a catalyst). I cant comment directly on the price of this quote as im not sure what is included, but hopefully you have some piece of mind regarding diagnostic vs repair bills and feel confident to ask whats included in the repair. Worst case, now that you know the issue, find a reputable specialty exhaust nearby, call them and ask for a quote.
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u/Expensive-Dealer1640 1d ago
I get the point of diagnostic fees and i’m totally okay with the 150$ price, but I find it scummy that I have to choose to give them the job in order to reduce my diagnostic to 150$ or eat the 250$ cost in order to go to another dealership so I can get another quote. If it was a flat 150$ i would’ve been all for it. I’d be fine with asking questions but I know very little to nothing about cars so I wouldn’t know what specifics to ask for unfortunately.
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u/MWMWMMWWM 23h ago
Your misunderstanding. The diagnostic fee is $250. The repair bill is seperate. They want your business so are offering you a $100 discount so you dont need to drive all over town.
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u/Expensive-Dealer1640 23h ago
I understand the diagnostic bill is $250. That price is too high for a diagnostic in my opinion, and if I felt their pricing wasn’t sincere for the repair estimate I would like the option to take the extra $100 to drive around town and pay someone else to give me a different quote so I can compare.
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u/MWMWMMWWM 23h ago
Im sorry but why not just pick a different cheaper shop to begin with instead of signing the $250 estimate then getting upset with the shop? Your ask seems a bit unreasonable here “i agree to give you $250 to diagnose my car, oh I think your estimate is too high, nvm idw pay you” sorry mate 10 out of 10 times you lose this in court. Not trying to be confrontational, just trying to level with you.
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u/Expensive-Dealer1640 23h ago
Yeah that part’s on me. I saw their ratings and it seemed trustworthy so I rolled the dice and they gave me that estimate next. I’m not gonna fight them on it what’s done is done, but i’m still gonna vent about it. It seemed like you were defending their price and claiming I was misunderstanding so I was just explaining my view on it.
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u/MWMWMMWWM 23h ago
Makes sense. Honestly, $250 diag isnt that bad. BMW be charging $500/hr around where I live. Looking forward to a solution: find a reputable exhaust shop and ask for an estimate for an aftermarket carb compliant catalyst. You dont even need to take your car to them for a quote. Hopefully youll save some money.
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u/Expensive-Dealer1640 23h ago
Thanks, from the comments it looks like that’ll be my best bet if the number they give me tomorrow is still too high.
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u/UrielseptimXII 21h ago
Can't you just register the vehicle in another state under an LLC. Would probably be cheaper in the long run and less hassle. CA requirements are garbage.
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u/Main_Couple7809 1d ago
You can shop for used one on eBay.
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u/Expensive-Dealer1640 1d ago
Unfortunately it’s hard to buy one online and have it shipped to this state. Believe me i’ve been looking and I can’t find a single one that ships here.
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u/Life-LOL 1d ago
Haaaa id straight pipe the bitch and call it a day
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u/Artistic_Bit_4665 23h ago
They are in California. They will literally impound and crush the vehicle if it does not meet California emissions standards.
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u/UrielseptimXII 21h ago
Sounds like a shit hole.
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u/Artistic_Bit_4665 13h ago
People live there for the weather. Otherwise..... Well, I would not live there. I had enough of Seattle. The sales tax there was crazy. More than double what I pay at home.
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