r/Damnthatsinteresting • u/ActualInstance2195 • 3d ago

Video Fascinating growth made by China!

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u/Euphoric-Potato-4104 3d ago edited 3d ago

I was in shenzen in 1995, and it looked even worse than that 1980 picture of it. Dirt roads, dusty, dilapidated infrastructure, shoeless children wandering the streets, open sewer pits, etc. Now it makes nyc look like a third word country.

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u/FullmetalGin 3d ago

This is the state of most major cities in India right now and it's depressing

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u/rohmish 3d ago

China acknowledged that they have issues and worked to solve them. Indian culture is thinking everything about India is already the best. broken roads with nobody following traffic laws, no lanes, people driving in the wrong direction, no helmets, driving on foothpath..all is normalised. inferior and cumbersome solutions in the name of "homegrown" alternatives? don't worry we'll say it's better than western and Chinese solutions. Pollution in cities? we'll just ignore it and call people who try to talk about it weak!

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u/Chedditor_ 3d ago

That's nationalism. Same thing is happening in the United States, honestly.

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u/rohmish 3d ago

For sure. things that are going on in the US have a lot of parallels to Indian politics and social climate.

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u/Chedditor_ 3d ago

I'm not Indian, but I've been deeply concerned about the level of international acceptance of Modi and the BJP; they give me the damn creeps.

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u/rohmish 3d ago

I wish I could say it was a loud minority but honestly it's not. They're good at understanding what the people want to hear. to the point that people will cheer and celebrate things that are harmful to them because they are extremely good at framing things in a way that people find it easy to digest

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u/Chedditor_ 3d ago

Yep. Very much the same here too.

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u/russbam24 2d ago

Exactly the same situation with the current administration in the US. Literally the story of tariffs announced today lol

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u/Beast_Viper_007 3d ago

Religious extremism is on the rise here. One cannot even joke about some politician even if he does not take his name.

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u/scarabic 2d ago

How interesting. I would not have guessed that India has a predominant “we are the best” attitude.

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u/CantoniaCustomsII 1d ago

It is, because they place being the "best" in metaphysical and unquantifiable attributes. Just like how American evangelicals pride themselves in being virtuous when their entire religious beliefs is Sola scriptura (aka deliberately misinterpreting the Bible)

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u/scarabic 1d ago

I think this “only we are us” attitude is deeply embedded in a lot of cultures. If you think back to a time when the world was larger, a person from the other side of the planet was, then, like an alien from another planet would be to us today: strange, from a faraway place that can barely be understood, totally unlike everyone you know. I think people had a hard time seeing someone so alien as even a human being. To this day it lingers as racism, even very modest forms of it, like thinking immigrants from other countries and people are “all well and good, but not real Americans.”

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u/CantoniaCustomsII 1d ago

I think the thing is if you've got something measurable to be proud of, you absolutely should. But if you can't measure it, don't bother.

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u/scarabic 1d ago

Being proud of your identity is okay, as long as that doesn’t include thinking it makes you better than others. Everyone has their culture.

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u/CantoniaCustomsII 1d ago

Well, if I dare so say myself, I am certainly better than most Yankees on intelligence and education.

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u/El_Grande_El 3d ago

It’s called capitalism

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u/CosmicCreeperz 3d ago

I don’t think it’s nationalism. China is the poster child for nationalism. I’d call the US problem the increasingly unwarranted obsession with “exceptionalism”.

Thinking that there is an inherent superiority to the US has overall made us lazy and ignorant, to the point of disregarding all of the ACTUAL scientific exceptionalism that made the country great and brought some of the brightest minds in the world to work at our universities and companies.

China got where they are as an authoritarian meritocracy prioritizing education and science over religion and petty partisan issues. The US got there 50 years ago with basically a free democratic version of the same meritocracy. But it’s clear today it’s rapidly devolving into a culture somewhere between anti-science theocracy and anti-intellectual nepotism and crony oligarchy. Leading rapidly to flat out Idiocracy.

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u/Chedditor_ 3d ago

BJP is explicitly Hindu nationalist. It's in their charter.

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u/CosmicCreeperz 3d ago

Yes, but what I said was nationalism isn’t in itself the root cause of Indian (or more so the US) issues compared to China.

Certainly not saying I approve of nationalism, though, regardless of whether it has a Communist, exceptionalist, or religious basis.

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u/Chedditor_ 3d ago edited 3d ago

Communism is not nationalism. China also hasn't been a true Communist country since before Deng Xiaoping took over.

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u/CosmicCreeperz 3d ago

Missing my point here. Nationalism is a symptom or a byproduct, the current roots are in authoritarianism related to the control of the one party Communist party system (yeah it’s an authoritarian neo capitalist state blah blah).

Though China has had STRONG nationalist movements since Sun Yat Sen’s Three People’s Principals. Eg. it’s not so much rooted ethnic superiority… which is a bit ironic as he got it from American progressive Nationalism, which predated the current US right wing racist nationalism.

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u/blackstarr1996 3d ago

Our government has been deliberately engineered to be essentially useless. The argument is that this allows the market to innovate, but what the market seeks is the opposite of innovation. It’s just larger and larger monopolies extracting larger profits while providing as little benefit to society as possible.

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u/somersault_dolphin 2d ago

Yep, getting rid of the scientific funding is arguably the stupiest and most harmful thing done to the US so far. It's basically burning all the cards in your hand.

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u/CosmicCreeperz 2d ago

That and the general persecution of universities. “Wokeism” or extreme liberal bias or whatever may have been a problem in US universities. But at least it was based on free discussion and individual actions.

The government coming in and punishing people for their opinions and actions is literally what the 1st Amendment was trying to prevent, but Republicans are completely trashing the intent by sidestepping the Constitution.

This is going to have HUGE repercussions on the scientific leadership of the country. The brain drain is starting already, and will continue until scientists feel safe again.

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u/Outside_Scientist365 2d ago

Yeah tbh you're already on a razor thin margin with a PhD. You may not have to pay for your schooling (at least in the hard sciences) but there's not much cushion. Now with this whimsical administration withholding funding and gutting departments left and right I can't see someone talented from a developed nation finding it worthwhile to come here.

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u/waj5001 2d ago

Excessive financialization contributes a lot to what you are saying as well. When ever increasing lazy money can be extracted from an economy without the underlying value to support it, enterprise innovation suffers.

Most people will always seek the easiest route to their cultural markers of success, and the quickest way to make a lot of money in the US is by making big bets in derivative markets. Not spending the time to get good grades, not building the next greatest thing, or starting a business.

The only way out of it is to make stock/options trading less attractive via increased taxation and to completely upend SBLOC instruments..

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u/CosmicCreeperz 2d ago

True. And rent-seeking (both literal rent and the general economic practice).

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u/PureObsidianUnicorn 2d ago

This is so good. Accurate isn’t a good enough word.

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u/scarabic 2d ago

There are many exceptional things to point to in America but I tend to think that they are the product of geography most of all, and not some kind of inner soul superiority. America’s natural resources, arable land, navigable rivers, and oceans protecting both shores all add up to a god start in the game of civilizations.

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u/CosmicCreeperz 2d ago edited 2d ago

It is absolutely beyond a product of geography. Despite some past anti immigration nationalism and some rural racism that continues, for the most part American cities are the most diverse in the world, and the US has traditionally been the most welcoming to immigrants. Case in point, the US and Canada are the only “Western” nations with birthright citizenship.

That’s why what is happening now is just so fucking stupid. America’s biggest advantage in the past 70 years was science, technology, and industry that was significantly driven by immigrants (both white and blue collar). It’s so damn obvious but a bunch of lazy or ignorant “citizens” who won’t study history just want to blame some else for their failures. And it’s even worse than just halting immigration - the brain drain is already starting. Unfortunately it’s being proven true that education and science have a liberal bias…

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u/scarabic 2d ago

All true. It doesn’t get any more American than diversity. Which is why it’s pathetic to watch this administration crawl around killing any proud displays of it.

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u/TorontoGuyinToronto 1d ago

Idiocracy is a documentary - not a movie.

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u/Not_a_real_ghost 2d ago

I was born in China and nationalism is part of your life. But you work towards a common goal that benefits everyone in the long run.

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u/IssaJuhn 2d ago

This could not be farther from the American lifestyle of “stay in your own bubble and don’t come out”. Individualism in America’s hurting and killing more people than we realize.

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u/scarabic 2d ago

There are indeed many downsides to American individualism. But for contrast, the idea that everyone in China is working together for everyone’s benefit is laughably naive. There is gross and growing wealth inequality in China and their history of subsuming cultures and ethnicities all into one is a destructive and terrifying one, not some vision of unity (unless you look at it through Han colored glasses).

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u/ijehan1 3d ago

Busses are filled tighter than clown cars, inside and out.

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u/CrimsonBolt33 2d ago

You are so fucking wrong lol...China is not fixking its problems...you say India doesn't follow traffic laws? Drive in China for 5 minutes, no helmets? China, Driving on footpaths? China...Pollution...China...

Also Why does China only show a handful of cities...despite there literally being hundreds of cities with over 1 million people in them....hrmmmmm probably because its propoganda.

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u/deleteandrest 2d ago

Except you won't like it if indian govt solved it the way China solved its issues.

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u/nenulenu 2d ago edited 2d ago

Not being rhetorical here. What do you propose as a solution? The govt can’t make up laws and enforce them unless those laws are viable and the public culture has shifted. The grass is greener on the other side. US has a vast land and massive resources. china has natural resources as well and a brainwashed public under a dictatorship. And you know what India has. Its resources and wealth had been stripped over 80 years ago, primarily by the English. Very few resources, natural or otherwise. Hostile nations all around it that are encroaching every day. The govt does the best it can in my opinion. If you have viable ideas, take the civils and make a difference.

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u/gretino 2d ago

Funnily this is everywhere including China. The only difference is that in China they don't get to vote

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u/UrbanCyclerPT 3d ago

India will never be like China. Chinese are less religious. Religion is an evolution deterrent

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u/TH_Dutch91 3d ago

Adding to this. A country that treats woman as housewives or slaves will never reach its full potential. That's +/- 50% of your population wasted.

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u/raikou1988 3d ago

Its always above 50% of women in most developed countries

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u/MainCharacter007 2d ago

India is not a developed country. Female infanticide is still practiced in rural areas.

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u/PoopsWithTheDoorAjar 3d ago

Not quite in China. They aborted a lot of female fetuses

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u/raikou1988 3d ago edited 3d ago

Okay but the one child rule was intact for 30 some years . Who was making the hundreds of millions of kids since all this time in china? It sure as shit isnt a bunch of 50+ year old women

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u/CosmicCreeperz 3d ago

China’s population has DECLINED for the 3rd year in a row.

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u/PoopsWithTheDoorAjar 3d ago

I was only responding to your comment about developed countries having women for more than 50% of the population.

But never mind that. I don't consider china a developed country. They have futuristic cities and rich people, but I don't think they are quite up there yet if you consider the per capita figures

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u/raikou1988 3d ago

Ah . I see

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u/herefromyoutube 3d ago edited 3d ago

Don’t forget they treat their streets and rivers like trash cans and their beaches like toilets

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u/PantZerman85 3d ago

Plenty of trash rivers and pollution in China aswell. Like factories dumping chemicals in the rivers and polluting it for people downstream.

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u/tolndakoti 2d ago

I felt the same about Japan, when I visited 10ish years ago.

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u/TheEnlightenedPanda 2d ago

That's +/- 50% of your population wasted.

With our caste system, it's 90% I would say

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u/Unlucky_Buy217 3d ago

Oh man bugger off with this stupid virtue signalling you bad faith commenters keep doing. Yes people are aware, there are movements and protests larger than country populations that take place, and yes there are a hundred more things to fix but to claim that no progress has been made or it's some Afghan style bullshit is insanely disingenuous. Yes it's not ideal or as good as the West or even several other countries but the comparison has to be with oneself and there has been significant progress since 1947. We have discussions dialogs and significant movements, there are women leading many companies and sectors, women representation is normalized and things are improving. It's not the best, and shit ton of progress needs to be made but so has a lot of progress already been made and it's important to highlight that people don't believe this shit to the same extent they did in 1947 and it will get better. No country was born perfect, it will get better and has gotten better. India for example has the highest proportion of women pilots, higher than the West, and that's awesome. Stop discounting women have done to uplift themselves and change the future for so many millions. Sick of you good for nothing idiots passing judgements all the time acting like the holder of morality.

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u/toastedtomato 3d ago

Once you realise that a lot of commenters here are 13 year olds with a marvel movie level of understanding of politics, who gain their worldview from TikTok and Instagram reels, you’ll realise it’s not worth engaging with them.

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u/KarelKat 3d ago

*China is less religious today because of the cultural revolution.

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u/Mysterious_Fun4403 3d ago

It’s not just religion. Corruption, caste based politics.

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u/nicannkay 3d ago

Oh the corruption is still in China make no mistake. They aren’t showing the poor who work like as slaves in factories.

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u/Dr-McLuvin 3d ago

It’s funny people will make a huge deal about workers in America not making a living wage but these same people buy tons of shit from countries that are basically built on slave labor.

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u/Fun_University_8380 3d ago

It's more like most people don't uncritically buy the state department propaganda that these countries are using slave labor

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u/Sure_Station9370 2d ago

Wait you don’t think China has sweatshops? What reality do you live in lmao.

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u/wacdonalds 2d ago

The sweatshops are Amazon warehouses

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u/exbiiuser02 2d ago

They live in ImagiNation

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u/TicketFew9183 2d ago

Most countries have sweatshops so it’s nothing crazy.

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u/IssaJuhn 2d ago

……. America was literally built on slave/low cost labor…. This is the pot calling the kettle black.

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u/Dr-McLuvin 2d ago

That was 160 years ago.

I’m talking about today.

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u/IssaJuhn 2d ago

Doesn’t matter if the pot is 160 years old and the kettle is brand new. Both are fucking black.

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u/Objective_Drama_1004 2d ago

Also being devastated by centuries of brutal colonialism

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u/ayymadd 3d ago

Weren't they already despising and rejecting religion way before (like from the late 40s when the Communists took over)?

Confucianism was brought to heel in a similar manner to the Orthodox Church in Soviet domains IIRC.

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u/KarelKat 3d ago

Fair. My comment wasn't nuanced and played on the CR. What I was trying to say is more that this isn't just some innate thing of one people being fundamentally less religious than another and that there is context for why that is. One society went through a massive change to become what we see and another could also.

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u/UrbanCyclerPT 1d ago

yes, it is a type of thing that takes some generations. India won't be able to get rid of religion with a snap. It will take time.

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u/Early_Body_8306 2d ago

Wow, rare smart opinion on reddit

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u/radioinactivity 3d ago

Sounds like the cultural revolution did something good then

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u/longiner 2d ago

Once you hit rock bottom, there's no other direction than up.

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u/Sorry_Sort6059 2d ago

The Cultural Revolution lasted only 10 years, so how could it make religion disappear? Objectively speaking, Chinese people originally didn't believe in religion much; they mainly believed in Confucianism, but Confucianism is not a religion, it's more like an ideology.

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u/D3ly0 3d ago

*Largest genocide in human history

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u/reginhard 2d ago

It really doesn't has anything to do with cultural revolution. If you look at HK Taiwan Macau and Chinese communities in South East Asia you'll know. Religion didn't really play a very important role in everyday life in the past.

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u/PlainNotToasted 3d ago

Religious Conservatives are the number one problem facing the planet. Just like they've always been.

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u/Tagmemic 3d ago

I’m an atheist so I agree with the general sentiment about religion being a deterrent to evolution. But, I don’t think it plays a role in deterring the development of infrastructure. Some of the most advanced cities in the world all through out history til modern day have been built by extremely religious people. I would even argue that it could work as a powerful motivator for such things.

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u/SirLaughsalot7777777 3d ago

Also because it can truly only take communism to propel 1.4Billion+ people toward one common goal. India has so many opposing parties that they purposely stall progress to make the ruling party look like no work was done. Also, corruption is at another level even at grassroots level

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u/Ember_Roots 2d ago

Oh yea be a communist country like china who has billionaires!!!!

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u/[deleted] 3d ago

[deleted]

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u/El_Grande_El 3d ago

Not without a communist government it wouldn’t. India would take a similar but less successful path the US took. Completely owned by capitalists. Manufacturing would leave to cheaper places as soon as the cost of labor went up.

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u/SirLaughsalot7777777 3d ago

No chance buddy. You forget how Indians will unionize and strike. How Indians are more lazy in terms of work. I know because I was born and raised there, and I visit China on biz every single year

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u/that_guy_ontheweb 3d ago edited 3d ago

Chinese are religious though. The CCP isn’t but most Chinese people believe in folk religions and what not.

Also this “religion is a deterrent” argument falls apart when you look at places like Poland.

Edit: Ireland is also the prime example as well, they’re like 80% Catholic and yet have one of the fastest growing economies in the world.

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u/Stampy77 3d ago

Ireland has a fast growing economy due to becoming a tax haven for massive corporations. For the average person it's still becoming more and more unaffordable to live there. 

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u/Ironic_Toblerone 3d ago

Australia is in a similar boat, giving all our resources away for free due to corrupt pollies

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u/igotshadowbaned 3d ago

Yeah it's more of an ability to build on a fresh slate. In Poland (and a lot of Europe), much of its infrastructure was destroyed during WW2 so they were able to rebuild it better without having to consider what was already there. In Chinas case, the CPP will essentially just move people away to tear down the area and rebuild it better.

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u/Parallez 3d ago

I agree. It's fresh slate. Same thing with Japan and South Korea.

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u/demonofthefall7537 3d ago

Tbf they don't just forcefully move people, they buy the land at very generous prices. Everyone I know who's family 'Shenzhen local' is absolutely loaded. You can look up nail houses to see people who refused to be bought out.

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u/Gamer_Mommy 3d ago

Which was absolutely not the case. People actively rebuilt major cities mostly in accordance with their historical design. Literally using pre-war photography to be able to actually match the original design.

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u/Mental_Blacksmith289 3d ago

"Spiritual, but not religious"

Many people argue that Chinese people aren't religious because they don't consider what they practice to be religions.

Thats a philosophical debate though. Just like how many people call others fake (insert religious group) because they don't actuvely practice their religion.

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u/li-_-il 2d ago

Also this “religion is a deterrent” argument falls apart when you look at places like Poland.

I am Polish and I don't really agree.
Religious people in Poland are one of the biggest hypocrites in our society, mostly stupid, uneducated and not keen to learn beyond their limited horizon.
Most of them visit church not, because they like, but because there isn't anything better todo... and because they're afraid of their being judged by their neighbour living similar poor life.
No all of them obviously, but vast majority.

It was horrible in the 90s, early 00s, it's getting better though.

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u/Desperate-Care2192 3d ago

He said less religious, which is still true.

Poland is also less religious than India, in a sense that religin plays a much smaller role in the politics.

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u/TheEmpireOfSun 3d ago

Religion plays much smaller role in politics? Poland had ruling party religious fanatics for many years. Also mentioning Poland as some good example of growth despite religion is bullshit.

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u/Desperate-Care2192 3d ago

Are different religous groups murdering each other in the streets?

I agree with that last sentence.

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u/Gamer_Mommy 3d ago

Poland is experiencing an economic growth and at the same time religious attendance and people actually describing themselves as religious is getting lower and lower every year. Coincidence? I think not. We are currently the fastest secularising country in the world.

https://notesfrompoland.com/2023/09/29/proportion-of-catholics-in-poland-falls-to-71-new-census-data-show/

We also have one of the lowest unemployment rates in all of EU at the moment. It's below the EU median. Let's not forget that EU was a game changer for Poland and this combined with people having a great work culture comes down to exactly this result.

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u/Responsible_Man_369 3d ago

Yep main issue arises when you let relegion have more influence on politics.

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u/nono3722 3d ago

China is the second largest christian country in the world.

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u/SectorEducational460 3d ago

44 million which seems a lot but in comparison to a country with a 1.2 billion people. It's only 3% of the population

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u/that_guy_ontheweb 3d ago

10,000 converts per day iirc.

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u/raikou1988 3d ago

Wait what ??? How

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u/that_guy_ontheweb 3d ago

What do you mean how? People are turning to god. Pretty simple. Also reminder that it is a large population

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u/raikou1988 3d ago

I meant more of if there was a movement or a certain reason . If its just happening naturally then right on 🤙

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u/that_guy_ontheweb 3d ago

It’s happening naturally. Hell the largest church in the world is in South Korea.

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u/raikou1988 3d ago

Did not know that

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u/DisoX01 3d ago

Whats the biggest? I tought both Brazil and USA have more? Russia aswell?

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u/nono3722 2d ago

USA is the biggest with China challenging Brazil for second. China's numbers aren't reported correctly due to the CCP frowning on non approved group meetings. They say by 2030 China will be the biggest Christian country.

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u/gods_tea 3d ago

Poland? 🤨

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u/that_guy_ontheweb 3d ago

Yeah, their GDP is one of the fastest growing in Europe. And they are very religious.

Same with Ireland.

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u/Mistic92 3d ago

We are not very religious anymore

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u/gods_tea 3d ago

I did not know that.

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u/misterjyt 3d ago

it think it also depends on the religion. I think most chinese religion are mostly about wealth I think. that is why almost a lot of chinese are business man

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u/Vincent_VanAdultman 2d ago

Source for contemporary "Ireland" (which? Republic? NI?) being 80% catholic?

X to doubt

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u/that_guy_ontheweb 2d ago

https://data.cso.ie/

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u/Vincent_VanAdultman 2d ago

Yeah if you make a claim I'm not doing your work for you

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u/FluffySloth27 3d ago

The names of some fervently religious people - Newton, Copernicus, Faraday, Maxwell, Volta, Pascal, Kelvin, Heisenberg, Ampere…

Believing that there’s something greater out there is not antithesis to progress. Modern science is built on the bones of theologicians.

So, mystical beliefs are not themselves poisonous. Belief in unrealistic ideals like justice, morality, and equality guides us towards betterness. Religions are, in essence, stories of hope.

The folks who pervert that message to divide, conquer, and separate are the problem, and they exist among Jews, Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, etc.

Demagogues and populists will find commonalities and use them to categorize an amoral ‘other’ - religion is just one of the most used commonalities, it being widespread. Wealth, language, skin color… many others exist.

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u/UrbanCyclerPT 2d ago

Name some religious scientists nowadays

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u/FluffySloth27 2d ago

65% of Nobel Prize winners in the 20th century identified as Christian. I could name numerous scientists, from those who make spaceflight possible to those who developed the COVID vaccines and everything in between. Scientists are just as religious as us everyday folk.

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u/UrbanCyclerPT 2d ago edited 2d ago

yes, academia is full of religious

they pray instead of studying and doing

basically what you are sayin is not related with what I am saying. I am saying Religion is a deterrent of cientific development.

because IT IS.

And religion works always better by maintaining people ignorant. The ignorant don't question, dont try to find solutions outside of their GOD that provides for everything.

You are basically burying your head in the sand. Religion is the exact opposite of science. And science creates development, religion only sheep. Look at the most religious countries and the most religious areas of north or south america, they are ALWAYS th least developed and instructed ones.

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u/Rahm89 2d ago

Lack of education and critical thinking produces sheep. You’re a fine example of a secular sheep.

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u/UrbanCyclerPT 1d ago

I am sorry but that is a shitty argument.

you are talking about centuries old fairy tales. We called the old days the Dark Ages for a reason. What you are doing is whataboutism. it was not because of religion that they discovered what they did, it was despite religion.

So, stop the bullshit of saying it was religion that did anything

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u/Miserable_Bike_6985 3d ago

HAIL SATAN!

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u/Own_Active_1310 3d ago

I'm honestly okay with a china world order. 

My only problem with them is the lgbt rights at this point. They're better than our regime on everything else. They aren't friendly to religion but religion isn't friendly to me so guess what? I don't care lol 

I feel like they will come around to lgbt rights thru reason. It's more likely than the religious nut jobs ever coming around. 

Sucks that it is this way but we can't change it. Those people will always hate us. China may not, but they have every reason to hate the US hegemony world order and I don't blame them. I'd rather appeal to them and pry them away from Russia.

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u/Accomplished-City484 2d ago

Where are they at with LGBT rights?

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u/No_Mention777 2d ago

不支持也不反对，不要宣传和鼓励lgbt，除此之外想当同性恋还是变性人没有人在意

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u/Own_Active_1310 2d ago

We need to be outspoken about lgbt rights here because we are surrounded by religious lunatics who want to burn us all to death. I mean imagine if you had colonial brits passing out opium everywhere. It's just bad blood.

China is a different culture and as long as they don't tolerate those crazy religious people, I'd see a lot less need to be so out spoken about it. The Chinese state has the right idea about re-educating them. I don't believe the anti china propaganda demonizing it. I think it's coming from the same nuts churning out propaganda to demonize us. And in turn, I don't tolerate these anti china nationalist views.

I don't blame china. They have been treated very unfairly by a corrupt world order, and I am one American who welcomes a Chinese / EU world order to move away from the Russia / US one. There's a beautiful planet here waiting for an intelligent civilization to prosper. But the US and Russia will never get us there.

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u/Own_Active_1310 2d ago

Well they are light years ahead of those religious nuts that think we are demons. China can be reasoned with as they are pragmatic and sane. 

Religion can't be reasoned with or coexisted with. It's an existential threat to innocent people and that will never change.

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u/UrbanCyclerPT 1d ago

lgbt, press, right to rebel, there are lots of things wrong, but being not religious is not one of them

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u/Own_Active_1310 1d ago

I've heard the lgbt situation over there isn't so bad tbh. It's not glorified or anything. But people don't care that much who does what in the bedroom. 

They don't have these religious nuts shrieking about god hating people and wanting to genocide them over it. 

China can be reasoned with. They are rational actors. Religious people are not and can't be reasoned with. 

I'm 100% behind a sane EU/China world order despite the draw backs, because it's still infinitely better than a US/Russia lead chrisofascist world order

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u/Vincent_VanAdultman 2d ago

What about state sanctioned ethic cleansing of Uyghurs? Violent repression of democracy and free press? I admire much of Chinese culture and its natural environment but let's not overlook the crimes of the CCCP.

Not that the 'west' has much to brag about ofc

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u/Own_Active_1310 2d ago

Religious people call me a demon. They are dangerously insane and I don't blame china for taking religion seriously as the existential threat it is. 

They will get no sympathy from me. Religion is a mind virus

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u/Rahm89 2d ago

If you’re just casually justifying genocide, maybe people are right to call you a demon, but not for whatever reasons you made up.

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u/Own_Active_1310 2d ago

genocide is what religious people want to do. China is re-educating demonstratsbly delusional people. 

It's a different culture and they have a lot of bad blood with religious extremists. It's not an unfair stance for them tbh. And since all the people who want to genocide me are religious and not Chinese.... i mean what do you expect? I'm not gonna come to the defense of people who want to genocide me. I don't necessarily agree with the heavy handed approach china is using but an age restriction or something would a good compromise. But I see their concerns. 

And so do all the other people these religious people have historically oppressed. And they can try, but they can't erase history.

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u/Rahm89 1d ago

Oh yes of course, I forgot about how religious Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, and all the dictators were. You know, all the people who committed actual genocide.

I forgot what a bunch of humanists the communists are. The people who gave us the gulags!

I had also forgotten that the Romans obliterated their enemies and wiped Carthage off the map for religious reasons.

Genocide is what hateful people like YOU do. Religious has been an excuse in the past, yes, but by no means the only one.

Abysmal ignorance like the one on display here also helps to dehumanize others.

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u/Own_Active_1310 1d ago

95% of nazis were Protestant and Catholic

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u/Rahm89 1d ago

Yeah, 95% of the Allies were culturally Protestant and Catholic too. 95% of resistants were Christian.

Guess what, most people here going on a crusade (heh) against religion are also culturally Christian.

So what’s your point exactly?

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u/Own_Active_1310 1d ago

also lying about these things doesn't help your case. I'm sick of the endless religious lies. Christianity alone has tortured and killed 100 million and oppressed countless more brutally..

And they never try to change, they only try to erase history so they can try again. 

Yeah sorry no. They are a grave threat to innocent people and nobody is doing jack about it. But china is. So go china.

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u/Rahm89 1d ago

What exactly is the great lie? Concentration camps? Gulags?

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u/PM_ME_UR__ELECTRONS 2d ago

That's what they said about China in the early 20th century too.

Chinese were viewed as too "superstitious" but the sentiment is the same.

Most Chinese thinkers believed that China would have to throw off this way of thinking, and we can see that they China has managed to modernise and improve the country despite spending half the century in abject poverty, ignorance, and superstition.

There is no good reason why India can't do the same.

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u/UrbanCyclerPT 2d ago

They will be able I believe, but first they must get rid of ultra religiosity and especially that caste system where people can't move up from the caste they were born

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u/PM_ME_UR__ELECTRONS 2d ago

Exactly, fuck the backwards caste system, India must get rid of that.

All I am saying is I don't think "India will never be like China". I say "never say never". India can and may well change; China did!

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u/UrbanCyclerPT 2d ago

i believe we won't have a world when that happens.

china has been working on that for many years. they have been fighting superstition and religion for long. it is paying dividends now. Off course there's a lot of other superstition going on, especially gambling, which has deep roots in its culture, but that is not a deterrent to development. the caste system is

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u/THE--GRINCH 3d ago

Uhhh poland?

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u/steaminghotcorndog13 3d ago

Can say the same for Indonesia

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u/bjjtriangle 2d ago

That doesn’t make any sense.

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u/UrbanCyclerPT 2d ago

name a country/state where religion plays a major part that is a developed one.

Then to India add the Caste system

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u/bjjtriangle 2d ago

All of europe

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u/waffles153 2d ago

It's not religion, it's central planning

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u/everbescaling 2d ago

Lmao now it's religion fault? Was it atheism fault that china looked worst and on par with indian in 1950? It's only religion fault when it's suits you😂

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u/UrbanCyclerPT 2d ago

In 1950 Mao Zedong was ruling

I think you should read a bit https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2023/08/30/government-policy-toward-religion-in-the-peoples-republic-of-china-a-brief-history/

And please ask your sky daddy first before commenting. I just don't cave into bullshit. My country (gladly) has a majority of non-believers, and we are doing fine without fairytales.

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u/everbescaling 2d ago

In 1950 Mao Zedong was ruling

And mao was Christian? You're so uneducated it's crazy

And please ask your sky daddy first before commenting

Who's this sky daddy? As we see in history atheists always pick a person like mao, seems like mao is your sky daddy or something,

My country (gladly) has a majority of non-believers, and we are doing fine without fairytales.

Lmao sure thing buddy, only reason your country exists is because USA protects it, otherwise it's gonna be worst than south sudan

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u/UrbanCyclerPT 2d ago

Dude, learn to read.

MAO was the GUY who blocked religion. Fucking illiterate americans. and You think Norway exists because of your child for country?

damn you dumb!

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u/everbescaling 2d ago

You think Norway exists because of your child for country

Norway exists because USA protected it, unless you wanted it under atheist USSR, surely atheist Germany was better than religion christian civilized Germany,

MAO was the GUY who blocked religion

Make sense why china turned upside down and was in ruins for so long

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u/Rahm89 2d ago

Wow. That such a blatantly inaccurate and ignorant comment could garner so many upvotes is mind-boggling. Apparently, NOT being religious does not necessarily make you better educated.

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u/Pajjenbo 1d ago

nah, India is rife with corruption, the Chinese althought not perfect wont tolerate corruption.

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u/Fromundacheese0 3d ago

Being dirty has nothing to do with religion my guy

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u/karnage86 3d ago

It's not just religion, it's corruption.

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u/ProfessionalMovie759 3d ago

Not due to religion, it will be due to corruption and diversity. We got too much diversity.

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u/MercenaryBard 3d ago

“I’m being butt-fucked by rich people while they distract me with religious and racial divisions” starter pack.

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u/Xepobot 3d ago

I thought is more like corruption taking advantage or using religion to advances its agenda?

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u/catbutreallyadog 2d ago

Diversity is no where near the issue, it’s literally just corruption

Diversity is just the boogeyman ruling parties use

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u/ProfessionalMovie759 2d ago

I don't think so.

I agree that major reason is corruption, however diversity is also one of the reasons.

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u/catbutreallyadog 2d ago

Yeah major reason is corruption for sure plus it’s impossible to address diversity with this level of corruption.

Nobody trusts any institution to work in good faith. It just exacerbates the problem.

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u/toastedtomato 3d ago

Do you recommend India treats its minority religions like China too then?

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u/UrbanCyclerPT 2d ago

Have you ever heard of the Untouchables. India has a stupid caste system where millions of people have no rights at all. What are you talking about?

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u/catbutreallyadog 2d ago

Especially in rural areas where they are less educated about their constitutional rights

Not to mention the corruption

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u/UrbanCyclerPT 2d ago

off course there's also corruption in China, it exists everywhere, but religion makes it worse, every single time

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u/catbutreallyadog 2d ago

I’d say it’s different for India’s political climate in terms of which one’s worse.

Religion is more of a scapegoat to detract from the wrongdoings of the politicians.

Corruption is deeply institutionalized, even at the level of the Supreme Court.

Social welfare schemes aren’t imported effectively due to siphoning of funds. Then there’s the politician-bureaucracy nexus too.

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u/UrbanCyclerPT 2d ago

India in terms of democracy is way better. At least they have elections. in China the CP is eternal and the only one. But the challenges are enormous. China has been combating religion and superstition for a long time. It is paying dividends now.

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u/El_Grande_El 3d ago

They should. China has affirmative action policies for minority groups. They get cheaper education. They were exempt from the one child policy.

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u/toastedtomato 3d ago

India has affirmative action policies too.

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u/JustNormallyExisting 3d ago

Want me to show you pictures of Saudi Arabian cities in the same timeframe? Please, just stop your bullshit dude

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u/9bpm9 3d ago

They actively genocide religious people. That can't be our goal as a species.

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u/PM_ME_UR__ELECTRONS 2d ago

If anything, that's an encouraging thought for India.

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u/rSingaporeModsAreBad 3d ago

You talking about a country whose river is so sacred and holy, you dump as much shit, human bodies, chemicals, and plastic into it.

Then they go drink some cow piss because the cow is a holy and sacred animal.

Then they go publicly execute a Muslim because they don't worship the same 7627 deities as you.

Then there's the rape.

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u/Reasonable-Aerie-590 2d ago

I was in India (New Delhi) in 2017 and again in 2023 and I already noticed progress in 6 years. Be optimistic

Edit: just checked, my first visit was 2016 but point stands

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