r/Detroit • u/Alan_Stamm • 13d ago
News Wayne State stops students, faculty from holding pro-Palestinian vigil
https://www.metrotimes.com/news/wayne-state-stops-students-faculty-from-holding-pro-palestinian-vigil-3892967731
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u/T1mberVVolf 13d ago
Clearly targeting pro-Palestine protests. They have 0 policy on who can or can’t protest on campus, and the only one they shut down is this one. Pathetic by the university.
Same university that let “cops” in civilian clothes drag students out of their board meeting, and 100 of their own staff members called it out for being racist.
40,000 civilians lost to Israeli blood lust.
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u/space-dot-dot 13d ago
The great part is all the boot-lickers replying to the comment above will point to Tiananmen Square as some sort of "gotcha" against authoritarian communism. But then completely miss the point that it was student led.
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u/doublecalhoun Detroit 13d ago
way more than 40k
it's a real time holocaust with geographic devastation that looks like the remnants of a nuclear explosion
fuck the state of israel
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u/Judg3Smails 13d ago edited 12d ago
What would have happened if Hamas didn't attack first?
I'll hang up and listen.
EDIT: Fixed English.
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u/T1mberVVolf 12d ago
For that to happen, Israel would have to not be in complete control of and killing their population. I don’t condone hamas attacks, but don’t act surprised when they finally resort to violence after being beaten down for 80 years.
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u/Judg3Smails 12d ago
I'm pretty ignorant to the whole situation, but it seemed odd to me to sympathize with the initial aggressor whereas Ukraine gained the sympathy for being attacked.
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u/T1mberVVolf 12d ago
Russia/Ukraine is more clear cut on the aggressor, I think that’s valid for sure.
The Israel situation is more murky, however. There are people who believe that Palestinians have been removed from their homes/killed for 80 years, and that would make Israel the aggressor. Others would say that the Hamas terror attack a couple years ago was the starting point, making Hamas the aggressor.
Either way, Palestinian civilians (not Hamas) have taken the hardest hit over the last 80 years and continue to do so, that’s obviously my personal bias.
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u/Emotional-Aide3456 12d ago
There are people who believe the Palestinians have been removed from their homes/killed for 80 years
You’re saying this like it’s not historic fact
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u/T1mberVVolf 12d ago
I’m saying it like I’m just trying to convey a point to the other guy. I agree with you.
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u/doublecalhoun Detroit 12d ago
if October 7th was some 'first attack' then why have people been saying FREE PALESTINE since as long as I can remember and i was born in the 80s
we on the right side of history have been screaming FREE PALESTINE since way before October 7th 2023
if you are ignorant to the situation, do yourself a favor and read. there are plenty of Israeli born scholars who tell the history well. I'd suggest reading A Hundred Years War on Palestine by Rashid Khalidi or any book by Ilan Papi
free palestine, fuck israel
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u/bz0hdp 12d ago
Let's pretend Hamas did attack first. How many dead civilians is enough before it seems like overkill?
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u/BigData8734 12d ago
Who cares the Middle East has been fucked up fighting themselves back-and-forth for thousands of years and now they want to bring this bullshit here, I’m sick and tired of having to pay tax dollars to police the fucking world because these people can’t figure out how to get along. If you don’t like the United States go back to your fucked up country and solve your own problems there.
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u/_whyarewescreaming 12d ago
Try re-reading your comment and maybe edit it so that it makes some sense?
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u/mabhatter 12d ago
Israel killed 400+ Palestinians immediately the day after the ceasefire ended last week. I'm sure those were very dangerous people that needed to be attacked unprovoked and unwarned.
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u/booyahbooyah9271 13d ago
A group of 20 people. Some of whom likely have zero ties to the university like so many other protests don't speak for the university or it's student base either.
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u/FragrantEcho5295 12d ago
A State owned university is public property. There is no one that doesn’t belong there. It is public. Any member of the public is welcome and has the right to be on its campus.
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u/Vanrayy12 13d ago
Right. I’m an alum. And I guarantee that should something happen due to a protest the support would be lacking.
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12d ago
I'm an alum too. I support people practicing their first amendment rights to gather and speak freely.
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u/Vanrayy12 12d ago
Never said I didn’t. I did say that as an institution of learning, there is more to WSU’s calculus than it appears.
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u/Vanrayy12 13d ago
They are an institution of learning. I know this is personally hard, but this is what good institutional risk management looks like. WSU has an obligation not just to pro Palestinian students, but anti Palestinian students, and students that just want to graduate.
What would happen if they allowed protests, and students got deported to El Salvador without due process? Or if the Trump administration shuts off federal funding to WSU? There is more in the calculus for WSU than it seems.
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u/T1mberVVolf 13d ago
Being exposed to different opinions is part of growing up, and going to college.
Again, it’s a vigil with one plastic table, so if you don’t want to be exposed, walk literally anywhere else on campus.
I promise you aren’t smarter than the kids and they know the risks. You either have free speech or you don’t.
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u/Vanrayy12 13d ago
And when ICE shows up with the white vans and WSU students are in deportation centers headed to South America what will be your argument then?
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u/spitfire_pilot Windsor 13d ago
Self censoring to appease Fascists tends to not go very well down the line. I'm not advocating for people to be deported but avoiding the confrontation is acquiescence. That just kicks the can down the road for them to be more emboldened to further restrict free expression.
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u/Vanrayy12 13d ago
Not to mention the most affected communities by the Palestinian issue in Metro Detroit voted to put the fascist in office. Make it make sense.
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u/T1mberVVolf 13d ago
Did they? Or did they not vote at all? Seems like you think you have a lot of assumptions that you think are truth.
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u/KookyMenu8616 Detroit 12d ago edited 12d ago
https://foreignpolicy.com/2024/11/13/michigan-dearborn-trump-harris-arab-gaza-israel-vote/
With that said, I agree with others. It's 80 years of Israeli attacks & land theft. However if we want to actually get our country out of fascism & headed back the right direction we need honesty. Many folks did flip & vote for trump in our greater metro region & within the cities. Dearborn in particular was busily banning books in 2022. Which is to say attacks on race & gender are always the canary in the coal mine. We need to get religious folks of all backgrounds to stop voting with their religion. Everyone needs to be free. If you wanna hate someone based on your special book, do it at home. Not w your vote. On the issue of Dems are also bad, they support Israel as well. Agreed. Common sense & logic easily tells us all that Kamala would not have been..for instance trying to move Palestinians to an unknown country & create a "riviera" of the middle east. Sometimes we have to choose the LESSER evil - or we get full fascism
Stop using religion as a cudgel - it leads to this. He used and uses people's hate of others to get votes.
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u/Vanrayy12 13d ago
Your free speech isn’t infringed. You can still protest. Just not on Wayne State’s Campus. WSU has protected rights as well.
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u/spitfire_pilot Windsor 13d ago
It's not the free speech I'm concerned about. It's the capitulation and sacrificing integrity which is my issue.
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u/T1mberVVolf 13d ago
Then it’ll be the next group that republicans hate. And eventually so many people will get their rights stripped away that they’ll start to do something about it.
You say this like a huge GOTCHA, like protesters haven’t been met with violent force throughout all of human history.
If only there was examples of this happening throughout history so we could see how those situations ended up.
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u/Vanrayy12 13d ago
Okay. God bless. Let me know how that helps your cause.
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u/T1mberVVolf 13d ago
There will always be people like you, always has been.
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u/Vanrayy12 13d ago
You’re damn right. I’m a black American. The history of my people is about surviving.
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u/T1mberVVolf 13d ago
Crazy that you say that but don’t see any connection to another group of people struggling to survive. You don’t know shit.
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u/lemmyrogers 13d ago
Fun fact, avoiding the line as it’s continually moved is not how you stand up to authoritarianism.
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u/matt_minderbinder 13d ago
This can and will end up in court regardless and the school is allowing fear of Trump's brown shirts to force them into acting unconstitutionally themselves.
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u/NoHandBill 13d ago
I totally see where you're coming from, it seems like common sense to ban protests for the sake of student's wellbeing, but it's a slippery slope. If a public university is allowed to restrict student speech, what's to stop all public parks, public buildings, all public spaces from disallowing protest for the sake of risk management?
University students have the right to advocate and educate on campus, taking that right away would have great repercussions. Historically, college campuses have been leaders in cultural movements, from the suffragettes to civil rights advocacy to anti-war protests, there's a case to be made that progress wouldn't have happened without coalition building protests on college campuses.
Lastly, I want to reiterate that I totally understand wanting students to be safe, but that cannot be at the expense of their rights. The lesson that Sophie Scholl and the White Rose teaches us is not that students shouldn't protest when faced with violence, but that is all the more admirable when they choose to do. If students and others are willing to take part in protests that have the potential to bring them harm, that is an individual's decision to make, I applaud all who stand up to fascism.
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u/General_Pen_760 13d ago
Protesting is fine but most college protest cross the line. Cannot use the first amendment as cover for hate crimes and civil rights violations.
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u/T1mberVVolf 13d ago
What line was crossed?
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u/matt_minderbinder 13d ago
No real line was crossed but the amount of lines they imagine will be crossed is infinite.
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u/labellavita1985 St. Clair Shores 12d ago
What are you even talking about, dude?
Hate crimes and civil rights violations
I think you made this up in your head.
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u/General_Pen_760 12d ago
Plenty of evidence of physical and verbal assault. You can choose to bury your head in the sand. Gladly the feds are now enforcing Title IV of the Equal Protection Clause. Expect more
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u/bestfast 12d ago
But blanket statements like this hurt the freedoms that are protected under these amendments. The right to assemble is a key tool on both sides of any isle.
Saying things like this is like saying we should stop people from driving because some people are bad drivers. The laws should work how they are written and punish anyone that breaks those laws through the due process that has been laid out.
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u/General_Pen_760 12d ago
When protestors uses violence and intimidation it is not protected by the first amendment, sorry the first amendment is not absolute.
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u/ParadiddlediddleSaaS 12d ago
So those Kent State protestors shot and killed by the National Guard back in the day, “had it coming”?
Please elaborate on these over the top violent college protests you are speaking about. While you’re at it, maybe share how J6 was a “day of love” 😂😂😂, per DJT himself.
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u/General_Pen_760 12d ago
Obligatory you can be against hate crimes being perpetrated on US campuses and still remain a democrat. It is still possible.
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u/ComprehensiveTill736 9d ago
Its wild to me how these universities cos play with progressive ideals, then fall in line asap when fascism starts creeping in. I suspect most of the public will simply fall in line.
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u/derisivemedia 12d ago
Whatever your perspective on this - the article is terrible reporting with no guise of objectivity. A journalist should have, at least, attempted to present the other/university's view.
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u/QuadraticElement Sherwood Forest 12d ago
This is the Metrotimes. It's more of a political blog than a journalism outlet
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u/derisivemedia 12d ago edited 12d ago
Granted. Though they used to do serious news reporting; I realize that was a long time ago.
Still, even in it's current state - they have separate sections for news and opinion. This is presented as news, not opinion. But it's pretty naked in its bias.
EDIT for typo.
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u/Careless-Cake-9360 12d ago
What possible justification could they have for this, some times both sides don't have valid perspectives
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u/derisivemedia 12d ago
That's a good question, in fact, this is an obvious question a reader would have (hence the dereliction of duty from the journalist here to not try to answer it).
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u/justjess8829 13d ago
What a bunch of bootlicking bullshit. Fuck that Wayne state. Time for another protest it sounds like.
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u/JorjePantelones 13d ago
All those “uncommitted” voters upset they can’t protest..smh
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u/bz0hdp 12d ago
Ask any one of them if they're more upset they can't protest or that Palestine is undergoing genocide. Don't trivialize their perspective.
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u/JorjePantelones 12d ago
You are missing the point maestro. Want to change the system (said genocide)? Then participate (by voting) and get ACTIVELY involved. Otherwise, it’s just hot air. Thats the way a democracy works
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u/Mayaanalia 12d ago
What makes you think protesters don't vote? There is no mainstream party which strongly defended the people of Gaza in their right to life. Both Democrats and Republicans support Israel with limited guardrails for humanitarian concerns.
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u/JorjePantelones 12d ago
Never said that. What I’m saying is why was turnout so low? (My guess, in part cause those “uncommitted” voters never bothered to mobilize or strategize. They just screamed into their echo chamber. The larger question you should ask..Why has US supported Israel since its inception and what can we do to change that policy
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u/Mayaanalia 12d ago
Apologies, I misread your note.
Turnout was average in 2024, though lower than the exceptionally high turnout of 2020.
I believe that some voters who were not passionate about either candidate stayed home in 2024 because they did not understand that failure to vote in this election would threaten our democracy.
See voter turnout chart: https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/statistics/data/voter-turnout-in-presidential-elections
I support all civilians in this scenario - both the civilians of Israel and the civilians of Palestine/Gaza. I do not support the Israeli military when it harms Gazan civilians' right to life.
I think there are lobbies in the US which are preventing us from having a fair conversation on humanitarian support for Gazan civilians.
We need to get money out of politics to ensure fair consideration of all perspectives. I also think we need to separate church and state.
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u/Lilificent 12d ago
You realize that the First Amendment includes a right to assemble for a reason, yes? Protests are part of democracy.
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u/jaggedcanyon69 12d ago
They should be stomping on the front lawn of The White House at this point.
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u/Detroit-ModTeam 12d ago
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u/Empty_Afternoon_8746 13d ago
You just have to stop going there the only thing they understand is money so stop giving them yours if this is a cause you feel strongly about. We have other problems to deal with sorry!
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u/post_makes_sad_bear 12d ago
Somebody three years and $60,000 into their degree is definitely going to stop going because Wayne State shut down a protest. 👍
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u/Empty_Afternoon_8746 12d ago
I wasn’t aware you’re not allowed to transfer anymore my bad. But like I said we have bigger problem to deal with take care of it yourself what ever way you think is best, I mean that’s what you did when you helped Trump get elected right!
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u/post_makes_sad_bear 11d ago
There is a credit transfer limit which most schools impose. For most schools, that's between 60 and 90 credits.
I voted for Kamala Harris.
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u/Empty_Afternoon_8746 11d ago
like I said fight your battle what ever way you want it’s none of my business, I’m more worried about my own freedom then someone else’s half way across the world from me, it’s called priorities.
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u/post_makes_sad_bear 11d ago
We won't have to worry about this Israel Palestine situation the next time around. That'll be nice.
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u/JGFromTheD5 12d ago
This is the most ironic thread of all time as the Israeli civilians are protesting, without issue, against their government daily.
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u/ComprehensiveTill736 9d ago
This is what I never understood. There is more criticism of the state of Israel within Israel then is allowed in the US. Bizarre
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u/No_Telephone_6213 11d ago
I think the pro-Palestine movement burned through the goodwill they had from sympathetic voters during last year’s presidential cycle. Now, public interest has faded. Wayne State is wisely defending its position under the current administration.
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u/ComprehensiveTill736 9d ago
This opinion suggests what I’ve suspected; many of those protesters didn’t actually give a shit about Palestinians
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u/Judg3Smails 12d ago
Hamas didn't kill any children?
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u/nitegxd 12d ago
i see its justified for you
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u/Judg3Smails 12d ago
Who said that? That's a super weird assumption.
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u/nitegxd 12d ago
Wonder why Hamas would be pushed to such actions, not saying its justified.
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u/Detroit-ModTeam 12d ago
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u/SenatorAdamSpliff 13d ago
I’m have nothing left for these people. They could have voted in their better interests in November but instead what we saw was another poor decision in a long line of poor decision making from this community.
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u/Downtown_Key_4040 13d ago
the pro palestine types are a great counterpoint to the civil rights movement for anyone who wants to study the effectiveness of organized activism. it's hard to come up with things they DIDN'T do wrong
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u/SenatorAdamSpliff 13d ago
What? You mean the face covering blockading directly accosting crowd might have done it differently? Shocked I tell you, shocked!
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u/Downtown_Key_4040 13d ago
it does make one wonder about the leadership and organization of this movement and what their goals actually are
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u/SenatorAdamSpliff 13d ago
Well I think we all know deep down what they all want for the area and what they want for Israel.
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u/post_makes_sad_bear 12d ago
The Green Party appears once every four years to split votes off the Dem ticket. We'll see Jill Stein again in 2028. Until then, Palestine is without her great leadership :(
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u/blaimjos 12d ago
Well there's little to wonder about once one stops choosing to ignore the total transparency of their dog whistles.
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u/Vanrayy12 13d ago
You should see r/leopardsatemyface
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u/TeacherPatti 13d ago
That subreddit goes hard for Dearborn. Holy mackerel, they find things I didn't even see in the local news threads.
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u/Vanrayy12 13d ago
Leave it to redditors to be detectives.
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u/jimmy_three_shoes 13d ago
Easier to look for schadenfreude on the Internet than do something worthwhile in between walking dogs 10 hours a week
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u/Detroit-ModTeam 13d ago
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u/SenatorAdamSpliff 13d ago
Yep. These people don’t want to hear that they fucked up bigtime; perhaps even permanently.
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u/Seekerofthetruth 13d ago
A lot of folks voted for what they got and yes I include those who voted for Jill Stein. No need to rub it in though, things are not going to get better with the current federal regime.
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u/Seekerofthetruth 13d ago
I don’t think it should but that’s exactly what is going to happen with the current chucklefucks in office. Like they can fight back but Isreal is fully backed by Dump so that probably doesn’t go well for them.
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u/SenatorAdamSpliff 13d ago
I think we can safely say that the grave concerns, protests and letter writing campaigns failed miserably.
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u/T1mberVVolf 13d ago
People have been saying this for as long as protests have been going on. There will always be people like you.
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u/SenatorAdamSpliff 13d ago
Ya. We’re called realists.
Now, as a realist the next thing I’m going to say is going to really upset you:
I don’t support the current Administration in many things. But one thing that helps me rest at night is that we aren’t going to be importing more of these people’s problems to the Detroit area.
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u/T1mberVVolf 13d ago
The problem of not wanting their friends and family to die? Or the problem of them not looking like you?
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u/T1mberVVolf 13d ago
Violence? 😂 we’re still talking about Wayne state students holding a vigil right?
you’re sitting back and doing nothing. At least they tried, and who cares who they voted for. I’m sure you love making Reddit comments about “they get what they deserve” but shocker, that’s you assuming who the students voted for.
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u/Detroit-ModTeam 13d ago
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u/Detroit-ModTeam 13d ago
Your submission was removed per Rule 2 which states, "Submissions should relate to the Detroit area, culture, events, or people."
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u/exceptionalfish 13d ago
They suck for free, but only if you're posting something out-of-step with the liberal, gentrified Detroiter mindset.
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u/Detroit-ModTeam 13d ago
Your submission was removed per Rule 2 which states, "Submissions should relate to the Detroit area, culture, events, or people."
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u/Vanrayy12 13d ago
I would imagine this is for the safety of the campus community. Given how this administration is using any pretext to detain and deport anyone without due process I think there are valid reasons.
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u/luckyshot98 13d ago
That's an awful justification. If you protest, you do so understanding the risks, especially given current circumstances.
The quieter we are now, the more long term damage we'll see, and the more people will get hurt.
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u/Vanrayy12 13d ago
Im sorry you feel that way. I didn’t say I personally agreed. I just stated that I am sure the university has valid reasons.
ETA: I also didn’t justify it either. But thanks.
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u/luckyshot98 13d ago
The way you put it is understandable, but we have to consider long-term safety vs short-term right now. Protecting students and faculty now might mean concentration camps in your backyard later.
It's an evil choice put upon us.
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u/Vanrayy12 13d ago
Whose long term safety? As a black man in America, if I had children at Wayne State, I’d tell them to keep their asses in class and focus on school and avoid the protests. Especially in this political climate.
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u/luckyshot98 13d ago
My Lebanese neighbors whose uncle was killed by a pager while visiting family overseas. Green card holders nationally that are being deported for having soccer-related tattoos. Differently abled students that could lose their support without the DoE.
This administration isn't hurting people with good reason, it's out of a drug-addled hatred for the world around them.
And yeah, as black person, you and your kids are more at risk, especially at a protest. But less than a hundred years ago protesters fought for all people's right to education and safety, and if we're quiet now then more and more rights will get stripped away.
If you and yours show up though, I'll stand with you.
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u/Vanrayy12 13d ago
Why should any american citizen risk being deported to El Salvador on flimsy pretexts, deprived of due process, et cetera, all on behalf of Palestine?
If people choose to do so that fine. But don’t assume that everyone will be so willing.
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u/T1mberVVolf 13d ago
There are Palestinians with family in Palestine that are American citizens, that’s why they would risk it.
Nobody asked everyone, it was a group of students and professors standing up for what they think is right, nobody made you go down there and hold up a sign.
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u/luckyshot98 12d ago
Because you're paying for it. Your taxes pay for these crimes against humanity. I want to live in a country that's better than that, and I'll get imprisoned or shot for my neighbors in a heartbeat.
If you can live with yourself on the sidelines, more power to you. But they'll come for you one day too.
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