This might be old news, but I am just seeing it now. Apparently this artist was hired by Miguel to do concept art for the original outline of the series.

Kind of irritating to know we could have had a good adaptation.

Found this bust of Caraxes at a Collectors store and wanted to share it! It was honestly tempting haha

A lot of people are talking about how certain changes from Fire & Blood—whether in pacing, character focus, or altered events—may have shifted the tone or diluted the tragedy and complexity of the Dance.

Some fans feel that these choices hurt the original intent of the story, or made key characters feel less layered. With Season 3 on the way, what are your biggest worries? And what do you think the writers need to do to get it right?

Let’s talk book vs show, what worked, what didn’t, and how S3 can avoid slipping.

I mean i always wondered how rich would they be realistically 😭. Sounds dumb but i wondered would they be billionaires? Considering they have dragons and rule over westros Talking about dance of the dragons era when targaryens were at their peak

Tbh idk i always headcanon them to be worth billions of dollars Like 20 billion dollars Now idk so thought it'll be a fun discussion, I'm interested in money

I just wanted to discuss the potential appearance of Nettles in Season 3, whether this is still possible and whether this was always Ryan Condal’s intention. I have sources to back up the claims I’m making but this subreddit won’t let me post the URL’s in this post without it being removed by an automated moderator bot, which is super helpful lol.

All the evidence suggests that they have decided to merge Rhaena and Nettles, though there is some debate as to whether this was the intention since Season 1 or whether this is a recent development. I personally think this is a recent development. In the interest of being thorough, here is the evidence that suggests this was always the plan. Most of this is subtextual but it’s definitely there.

For example, in Season 1 episode 6, Laena has a candid conversation with Rhaena about claiming a dragon. The quote is as follows:

Laena: "There is more than one way to bind yourself to a dragon. I was without one until I was 15 years old and now I ride Vhagar, the largest in the world. You (Rhaena) have a harder road. Baela’s dragon was born to her, but if you wish to be a rider you must CLAIM that right."

In Season 1, this was in my opinion designed to set up Rhaena’s anger towards Aemond for claiming Vhagar. However, this could have been retroactively used to justify merging Rhaena and Nettles.

The other piece of evidence is based on the visual direction of the camera in Season 1 episode 10. The scene in question is Daemon discussing which dragons belong to each side of the conflict. The quote is as follows:

Daemon: "We have Syrax, Caraxes and Meleys" (Camera cuts to Rhaenys) "Your sons have Vermax, Arrax and Tyraxes" (Camera cuts to Jacaerys and Lucerys) "Baela has Moondancer" (Camera cuts to Baela) "There are also unclaimed dragons; Seasmoke still resides on Driftmark, Vermithor and Silverwing dwell on the Dragonmont, still riderless." (Camera cuts to Rhaena as Daemon continues) "Then there are the three wild dragons, all of whom nest here."

Again, in Season 1 I believe this was innocuous editing, but it could have been retroactively used to justify merging Rhaena and Nettles.

Moving on to Season 2 Things start to get messy. We know that WB Discovery issued the mandate which reduced the number of episodes in the season to 8 sometime in March 2023. This was one month away from the start of principal photography, and by this point 10 episodes had already been written.

Then there is the writers strike which came in to effect in May of 2023. I believe that HBO would have operated under the assumption that a strike was imminent and that they only had one month to rework a 10-episode season into 8 episodes. We now know that the Battle of the Gullet was in episode 9, so I think once they realized they didn’t have the budget to do it justice in Season 2, as well as the time constraint before filming began, they opted to lop off the last two episodes entirely and rework the ending.

Despite a strike preventing script rewrites, HBO wasn’t precluded from cutting scenes altogether in post-production. In fact, we know of several that were cut. For example, Tom Taylor, who plays Cregan Stark, filmed a scene with the Winter Wolves crossing the Twins at the end of Episode 8.

We also know that Bethany Antonia, who plays Baela, prepared for a scene with Daemon who gives her his sword, Dark Sister. This scene was also cut, but the actress remarked:

“Then there was a moment on set when I was presented with my character's weapon, the Valyrian steel sword Dark Sister. It was a thrilling experience and stands out as one of the coolest days I've had on set.”

We know that Rhaena was always supposed to meet Sheepstealer in Season 2 Episode 8 based on leaked storyboard images.

The question is whether these storyboards were made in preproduction before the season was cut to only 8 episodes or whether they were revised storyboards created once a 10-episode Season was off the table. I’m afraid we may never know the answer. But what gives me pause is the fact that these storyboards also show the cut scene of Cregan crossing the Twins with his Winter Wolves.

My educated guess is that these storyboards were the originals created for a 10-episode Season. I think Cregan’s scene was cut because they were no longer certain about him being in Season 3 due to a reduced episode count. Likewise, I think Rhaena’s story would have been much more involved in Episode 8 and possibly led to the introduction of Nettles.

The reason I think this is because of filming reports from Bourne Wood, where Phoebe Campbell and her stunt double were spotted.

We know that this scene was from Episode 8 because Wake the Dragon, a reliable leaker, spotted Geeta Patel and her Director of Photography on the Bourne Wood set. Patel directed episodes 3 and 8 in Season 2, but we know that this scene is from 8 because of the outfit Rhaena is wearing.

Local observers described this scene as “a Targaryen girl falling down.” What’s odd is that this was filmed in Bourne Wood in Surrey, not in North Wales where the Vale scenes were shot in episode 8. In fact, Bourne Wood is where they filmed the Battle of Rook’s Rest. We can see the battle going on in the background of these images, but we also know this was a separate filming unit because episode 4 was directed by Alan Taylor and had no scenes with Rhaena in it. This leads me to conclude that this was perhaps a dry run of a stunt. Rowley Irlam, the stunt coordinator, was in charge of the pyrotechnics at Bourne Wood, and he can’t be in two places at once.

There was nothing in the episode 8 that aired which warranted a stunt double—everything we saw was Phoebe Campbell herself. So what was cut? I think the “fall” was her failing to claim Sheepstealer, which would have been the launchpad to introducing Nettles, who had already claimed him.

They could still do this in Season 3, but I don’t think this is the plan anymore—if it ever was. Firstly, no Black actresses who could conceivably play Nettles have been announced for Season 3. But then again, the Daeron actor hasn’t been announced either, though we at least know he is in the season.

What’s really telling are the comments made by Ryan Condal when asked about the potential merging of Rhaena and Nettles:

“I think that’s a ‘please stay tuned and keep watching the story,’” he said. “I will say we love Rhaena as a character and we’ve really done a lot of legwork to set her up from the beginning as somebody in this Targaryen household who does not have a dragon and we see how powerful an idea it is … we’ve seen how with Aemond’s character, somebody that grows up in a family, even at the time of peace, when you don’t have a dragon, how it changes how you’re identified even within the family and how how desperate Rhaena is for that sort of self identification as a dragon rider and is willing to go to fairly dangerous lengths to try to see that realized … We’re providing the television version of one objective truth of this history and anybody who reads the book is free to interpret it however they want to, but there is a there are a lot of paths to interpretation through this and I think the the Rhaena story, as we’re seeing it unfold, is potentially one of those interesting interpretations that we have to offer and I would just say that we don’t do any of this stuff lightly”

“I think a lot of this story is still kind of in progress, so I don't want to say too much to preserve the experience for the audience that's watching," he said. "I would say that we don't do anything on the show without long discussion and consideration. And I would just say we understand these stories that have kind of risen to the top. They get talked about a lot online. Even before I was involved, we understand how important they are to the audience. And I think it's our job to adapt and render them in a way that it might not be exactly what you expect but is satisfying and hopefully, in some cases, exciting and surprising. And I think this story is something that falls into a nice area where you can do something that is faithful to the history as written, but also do something very unexpected and different.”

I hope I’m misreading this, but to me Ryan is avoiding answering the question because he has decided to merge Rhaena and Nettles for the sake of brevity and to give Rhaena something more to do. I hate the decision if this is indeed what he has decided because it undercuts Rhaena’s story arc later on and shorts an actual POC character from the books. No hate to Phoebe Campbell—she’s a wonderful actress and I’m sure she’ll do a good job with whatever she’s given.

What do you guys think the plan was or is, and do you think the shortened seasons have impacted the inclusion of Nettles?

I certainly find her behaviour in this scene frightening. The casualness with which she was willing to stab Alicent to death...

This is a sept. A holy place, a hallowed place, a sacred ground. Committing murder in this holy place is sacrilege against the gods. It's a sin.

I don't know... the way she is just so casual and care-free about telling Alicent that she'll gut her to death in a holy place is creepy. Dark, creepy stuff.

I think the writers are setting up something with this scene. They are definitely showing a dark side to Rhaenyra... perhaps this is the "true side" of Rhaenyra, even.

I'm actually kind of excited to see where Rhaenyra's character will go in S3. 😀

Dragons, appearing in the art, mythology, and folklore of many cultures, have a rich and diverse history, with some of the earliest depictions resembling giant snakes, particularly in the ancient Near East. They have been symbols of power, good fortune, and even evil, depending on the culture and time period. Here's a deeper look into the history of dragons: Ancient Origins: Mesopotamia: The earliest known depictions of dragons appear in the art and mythology of ancient Mesopotamia, where they were associated with water, sea, and fertility. For example, the goddess Tiamat, sometimes portrayed as a dragon or serpent, was the mother of the gods and embodiment of the sea. Ancient Near East: Draconic creatures, often resembling giant snakes, are first described in the mythologies of the ancient Near East and appear in ancient Mesopotamian art and literature. Ancient China: In ancient China, the dragon was synonymous with the emperor, often used to symbolize imperial power and celestial authority. Dragons were also associated with good luck, power, and strength. Ancient Egypt: Apep or Apophis, a giant serpentine creature, resided in the realm of the dead or below the horizon and was the opponent of light and Ma'at. Ancient India: Ancient Indian sources like the Rig Veda speak of the great dragon Vrtra, who had to be killed by the god Indra to release the waters of heaven onto earth. European Dragons: Greek & Roman: The Greek word "drakōn" originally referred to any large serpent. In Greek mythology, dragons were often depicted as powerful, winged serpents with the ability to breathe fire. Medieval Europe: In medieval Europe, dragons were usually depicted with wings and a barbed tail and as breathing fire. They were often portrayed as evil, guarding treasures or princesses. Christianity: Christianity, in some interpretations, associated dragons with Satan and evil, leading to the depiction of dragons as symbols of evil and sin. Cultural Significance: Chinese Dragons: In Chinese culture, dragons are revered as symbols of strength, power, and good fortune. They are also associated with water, rain, and the control of the weather. Western Dragons: Western dragons are often depicted as fire-breathing, winged creatures, sometimes guarding treasures or as symbols of evil and chaos. Dragons as Guardians: In some cultures, dragons are seen as guardian spirits, protecting the land and its people. Evolution of Dragon Imagery: From Snakes to Dragons: The concept of dragons may have evolved from the depiction of giant snakes in early mythologies. Influence of Real-World Animals: The appearance of dragons may have been influenced by the observation of real-world animals, such as giant lizards or extinct animals like dinosaurs. Fossil Records: The discovery of fossilized bones, particularly in Asia and Europe, may have contributed to the belief in the existence of dragons from an earlier age. Modern Dragons: Fantasy Literature and Media: Dragons continue to appear in modern fantasy literature, films, and television shows, often as powerful and fearsome creatures. Symbol of Power and Mystery: Dragons remain a powerful symbol of power, mystery, and the unknown, captivating audiences across cultures and time periods.

So, in season 2, we watch Rhaena track Sheepstealer through the Vale. From the books, we know that Sheepstealer is claimed by Nettles, whom we have not yet seen in the show. We also know (from the books) that Rhaena acquires the dragon Morning as a hatchling. From the show, we also see that Rhaena is sent to the Vale with 4 dragon eggs, three of which may be the eggs that Daenerys is gifted and later hatched in GoT. What of the fourth? I propose this (though it may be unlikely but could be a neat surprise, therefore I am officially calling it at this moment): Rhaena stumbles upon Sheepstealer and finds that he already has a rider—Nettles. This is when she is introduced to the show. Rhaena, while disappointed that Sheepstealer is already claimed, returns to either the Vale or the caravan travelling Rhaeneyra’s children. But where are the eggs? Do they remain in the Vale or are they being transported with the Princes? Wherever they are: Morning is born and Rhaena claims her, and Nettles joins the fight whilst riding Sheepstealer.