r/Jamaica • u/Sensitive-Pie-6595 • 2d ago
Economy Tariffs shouldn't really Hurt us
Those who live in Yard know that for so long we have been creating our own products, and buying from anywhere but the US. This goes back to the 1980s when America would give us 'string loans'... that is... they loan us $X but it can only be used to buy American products.
There was a time when in a supermarket big loooong aisles full of US stuff.
Over the years we started to quietly replace them with local products so that we didn't those loans.
We also started buying from other islands so that we had stuff from T'dad and of course, China.
Just before Trump did his tariff thing I looked at where my stuff came from.
Okay, everything that plugs in comes from China. Almost all my clothes come from China.
Now, my groceries.
I buy local stuff and stuff that comes from T'dad and every where else. Like this yogurt I use on my cereal comes from France, the other from Spain and the cereal is Jamaican. The coffee is Jamaican and I use Lasco instead of coffee mate.
The kind of flat breads/wraps i use are made in Jamaica as are the vegetables, soup, porridge, chocolate... in fact... I read labels before purchase.
if you look on the roads we have Toyota, Sukuzi... I haven't seen a US car since some years ago this Dodge.
I think Jamaica is not going to suffer very much because we wisely moved to standing on our own.
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u/xraxraxra 2d ago edited 2d ago
The United States are far and beyond our biggest trade partners in both imports and exports. There are verifiable numbers behind this fact that appear in the gleaner every week. This will definitely have an effect on us.
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u/Sensitive-Pie-6595 2d ago
not if we don't buy stuff from the US. I just had cereal that is made here, coffee that is grown here.
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u/No_Cabinet7357 2d ago
We would have to find a new supplier for fuel, electronics and machinery though, as the US is currently our biggest source for those things.
On the export side, our exports are going to be more expensive for US consumers, meaning they'll probably buy less from us.
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u/Sensitive-Pie-6595 2d ago
what if we get it direct from China? the stuff is made there, they can bring here directly
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u/AndreTimoll 2d ago
We currently do that but they still use US Ports when shipping so that's going increase the price ,and they use Mexico ,Jamaica and the Panama Canal that's going put a strain on those ports leading to delays which will increase the shipping costs and that's going to lead to higher prices.
The entire region will be affected one way or the other until the alternative ports can increase their storage capacity and effiency in processing the containers.
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u/Freethinker3o5 2d ago
What if you just let china just own all of Jamaica? U think the Chinese will let you keep your culture?? Didn’t they ban bibles in china? And controlled the women’s reproductive rights?? Com on now…stop feeding yourself with American democrat/socialist propaganda…
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u/Wolfiie_Gaming St. Catherine 2d ago
Sigh. A bunch of misinformation in your comment.
1) China isn't trying to erase other countries cultures. There's plenty of countries that have worked extensively with China, especially under Brics, to be an alternative to the US dominated markets and the reign of the US dollar and they still have all their autonomy.
2) I won't comment too much on the Uyghers, as I do believe they've done things to that group including sterilization. But for Chinese citizens, that's just straight up propaganda. They don't sterilize their women. What they did is that during the height of the 1 child policy, they'd put monetary and social restrictions on families who did have more than one child to disincentivize having more children. Having 2 children is already expensive enough as is, and not being able to use government programs will run the average family's pockets.
3) They restricted every religion. It particularly has to do with its ties to colonialism and they decided that it causes too much division amongst people, so they developed a culture around secularism. You're not gonna get pinned down and arrested for having a Bible on your person tho. I know this cause there's Jehovah's Witnesses that operate in China, though they don't have huge facilities like what they have here and in America.
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2d ago
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u/Jamaica-ModTeam 2d ago
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u/Freethinker3o5 2d ago
Thanx for taking time out of your day to further elaborate what I basically said..however, buying a Chinese product and stamping it with a Jamaican flag for a Jamaican dollar..doesn’t make the product less made by china
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u/sus_on_deeznutz 2d ago
What would they purchase as a substitute for Jamaican goods? A lot of other countries got hit by tariffs and it's not like America can actually supply themselves with produce without it being very expensive just like the tarrif goods
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u/No_Cabinet7357 2d ago
They don't necessarily have to substitute, they could just buy less. If goods are more expensive you'd expect demand to reduce.
You're preaching to the choir about the prices being high in the US, but the president has spoken.
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u/frazbox 2d ago
Which can also be a positive for Jamaicans. If they don’t buy out goods, we in Jamaica will have surplus making that item cheaper on the local market
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u/tallawahroots 2d ago
That describes less foreign currency earning capacity. Yay, I feel so old remembering how my parents jumped hoops in those days when a bicycle for Christmas meant finding USD for the store and then it was stolen on Boxing Day.
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u/Calm_Guidance_2853 Linstead | Yaadie inna USA 2d ago
"If they don’t buy out goods, we in Jamaica will have surplus making that item cheaper on the local market"
Goods will still be bought, but not as much as they could without the tariff. Producers will just decrease production for the decrease in sales.
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u/Sensitive-Pie-6595 2d ago
that would be fantastic... I am 'addicted' to blue mountain so you know that if the price came down....
I think Trump has shot himself in the foot. The gov doesn't seem too worried.
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u/SAMURAI36 2d ago
Breden, JA imports nearly 50% of our products. What you're saying is a moot point.
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u/Sensitive-Pie-6595 2d ago
well not in my yard. But then i am kinda local focused
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u/SAMURAI36 2d ago
That's still irrelevant tho. You said Jamaica. Not just your yard.
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u/Sensitive-Pie-6595 2d ago
let us start from China NOT shipping to the US which ships to us. China uses Mexico as it's middle.
So, China evades tariffs, Mexico gets its take, and we don't feel a thing
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u/SAMURAI36 2d ago
This is a lot of wishing that you're doing, Bredren. And honestly, I don't think you have the best grasp of the topic.
It's true, the US is JA's biggest exporter, but the other countries put together outnumber the US by almost twice.
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u/xraxraxra 2d ago
Separate and apart from what others have said, you are also focusing on your individual situation and ability to buy locally. Putting aside that it is impossible to buy everything we use locally or in a way that doesn't consist of economies that are intertwined with the US in some way (we don't make phones or computers in Jamaica so what you're communicating with didn't originate from here) you're just focusing on your peculiar situation. This extends to the greater economic reality of the entire country.
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u/Sensitive-Pie-6595 2d ago
when you go to a supermarket here look at where the stuff comes from. Notice how few American products are on the shelves.
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u/AndreTimoll 2d ago
You view on this is very narrowed minded ,first off yes we can buy foods from local and regional partners the cost those foods will still increase because these tariffs because the raw materials either come from countries affected or have to go through US ports and due to this trade war shipping cost will increase.
You might say ok they can go through the Panama Canal that will also increase the cost of shipping because there is currently a battle of ownership of canal.
Second you only mentioned that we have alot of local replacements for food ,what about eletronics, cars,construction materials that can't be made here due to not having the raw material and factories here,clothes,and shoes.
We can replace clothes and shoes but that's going take alot of time and land space to build the factories and train the staff to make them because we don't have enough tailors/dressmakers and shoe makers.
For everything else those come from China,Japan,South Korea,America and Europe.
China,Japan and South Korea all US Ports to reach the Caribbean,Central and South America so the price of their products will increase for us because of this trade war.
For America assembled eletronics, cars,and construction materials just to name a few all get their raw materials from China so again shipping cost for those companies like Apple,GE,Whirlpool will pass those increased shipping cost on to us the consumers.
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u/tallawahroots 2d ago
We can replace clothes and shoes but that's going take alot of time and land space to build the factories and train the staff to make them because we don't have enough tailors/dressmakers and shoe makers.
Andre, I don't have much time but this stood out to me. There never has been textile production in the true sense thanks to our history. Sea Island cotton is beautiful fibre (I work with different forms of cotton from seed, ginned and the combed-slyver). My understanding is that it's all sold to European buyers, and demand is already high. That market isn't available to us basically. The only Sea Island cotton I could source is from a US company.
That's our only fibre production. Once, I tried to urge hemp fibre production and got shouted down. So even if you could do a first time textile mill in Jamaica, train mill staff, process and spin fibre competitively you still now need capital and industrial knowledge for the looms. Importing everything. For a market that loves textiles and has a very high appreciation for quality. It's such a hard business that it got almost fully wiped out in Canada, and the US and Europe. They have the diversity of growing flax (just efforts to rebuild) and the industrial complex that is a worldwide protein fibre market (wool and hair fibres we can't feasibly grow).
And shoes. I know a lady who stopped making her popular sandals because of materials cost and availability. Then there's all the problems of factories and cost of electricity, being targets of crime.
This is something I wish we had government buy-in for but am frankly saying that clothing self-sufficiency is both hugely important and bigger than piecework by sewists which we can do for sure.
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u/AndreTimoll 2d ago
I said the same thing in a concise way so I don't understand your disagreement with what I said.
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u/tallawahroots 2d ago
Your point was not the same. What I noted is that we agree about clothing, shoes as imports but that the enterprise for actual self-sufficiency in textiles is more than either clothing or simple garment construction. There is a huge vale add from that we pay when we don't produce the fibre, yarn or cloth. It's a bigger scope. Sheets, sailcloth, linens, furnishings, etc. are also all imported. The only mill I ever heard of was the carpet mills.
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u/Sensitive-Pie-6595 2d ago
why should China continue to use the US as the 'middle man' when they can come direct? Think of the hefty tariffs on China, think of all the stuff China sells here and in South America.
cut out the uS and set up to come to the southern hemisphere direct.
Or use Mexico as the middle.
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u/AndreTimoll 2d ago
Even if they come directly Jamaica as the central hub for the region,or use Mexico or The Panama Canal that's still going to increase shipping costs because increased demand will lead to delays which companies have to pay and they are going to pass those extra fees on to us.
The mainly point here is none of the alternative port can manage the increase demand so that's going to lead to delays which will lead to companies paying more duties and taxes and that's going to be added to the cost of products so there is no way around this for the foreseeable future.
But on the other hand this is a huge opportunity for Africa and the region mainly Jamaica because we are the gateway to the rest of the islands to start trading and building factories to make cheaper durable replacements.
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u/tallawahroots 2d ago
Tell that to any company who worked for decades to build distribution for their exports to the Diaspora.
All I see in the media is car parts manufacturers pointing to factory shutdowns in a week. How things are traded via the US ports matters to this. Packaging alone can have a huge shock - the aluminum tarrif matters in different ways.
Plus the financial markets are integrated. How many people invest in USDand US stocks tto hedge….. it's ubiquitous. Pain and deportation spell a drying up of remittance money. It's going to hurt.
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u/Sensitive-Pie-6595 2d ago
we will find a way around... maybe direct from China...why not?
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u/tallawahroots 2d ago
Why not well China dominating a trade relationship with Jamaica is intolerable to this US (and all) administration for one thing. Do you remember the cold war?
For another look at the ability to really trade with an unfree system - human rights, quality control, environmental concerns aside (no regulatory enforcement to Bureau of Standards and dumping of substandard product to kill the local and Caricom initiatives you waxed poetic about) - you then can think about your business people getting scooped into their spy accusations. China just executed 4 Canadians like this. It's not just a plug and play with world powers. The North American trade system has been a bulwark against more inequality. This matters.
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u/Sensitive-Pie-6595 2d ago
every electrical item in Yard is made in China. Go look see if you can find a Microwave, fridge, computer here Not made in China
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u/tallawahroots 2d ago
Okay? The brands are not Chinese, and the tarrif regime has changed. This type of response isn't striking me as helpful. The status quo is something that I heard a certain US Cabinet member speaking out against publicly while waving a big stick with the word visas at the top end and the word tarrifs at the bottom end.
How the status quo has emerged is the way that we operated in a very different situation that had been stable across N. America for 30 years or so. It's being undercut. Yes, the Asian (not China only; that's just sloppy thinking about a continent + region of the world that isn't all mainland China) manufacturers are sold in Jamaica. That trade is coming out of the currency earning climate.
If you want to speak more fully, I am pointing to real problems with product dumping. It goes to safety such as the rotten drywall issue in the US, and why steel is being traced to country of origin when it wasn't before, corporate espionage, etc. You may never have eaten bad rice but I have. This stuff isn't something that large, developed, militarized nations finds easy to manage for their people. Shrugging about it isn't very responsible or incisive.
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u/Sensitive-Pie-6595 2d ago
Pretend we are China and our big trade is about to crumble because when you do the math it is like a 60% tariff...
if China can leave out the US and go direct... it would be in their interest. So I'll share the pop corn with you and we see what China does.
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u/tallawahroots 2d ago
Okay, I'm going to break this down for you. Commerce with Jamaica is not the reason they are moving in the region. It's geo-politics. The US wants none of this power projection in its backyard and is saying it loud & clear.
You might shrug off the effects of adding to trade irritants at a time like this but I hope it improves without putting us in that incredibly dangerous situation. Ask an island that tried to thumb its nose, and you will find a very difficult history after revolution squashed. This isn't us sitting at a Palace Amusement property. It's gotten real fast.
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u/Environmental_Tooth 2d ago
You also don't understand how tarrifs works. Or how Jamaica shopping for essentials has been moving. Everyone's shopping online for clothes and shoes because of the astronomical prices here.
Look at glasses. The eye wear companies are complaining. Because no one buys their over priced shit.
Not many people buy clothes here anymore. I don't remember the last time I did this. Prices are too crazy. They buy it on Amazon, Amazon gets it from china or Vietnam. It's shipped from the US to your door it will be affected by tarrifs.
Almost anything with a chip in it originated in Taiwan or Korea. China makes small appliances and TVs that sell well in Jamaica. Your computer your cellphone the car your average person owns has chips from Taiwan. Now increase the cost of of that chip by 35%. Buying anything with a screen or that has a chip means the cost is gonna increase two fold.
You have to also remember for the scale of most of our Jamaicans most of our vendors can't go directly to China. Not enough scale. So we go to resellers where? In the US. That will be affected by tarrifs.
So we're fucked on many fronts. I put in the order last week from some computer parts because I knew prices were gonna sky rocket after this fuckery. But let's see if they actually go through with these crazy increases in cost for everything.
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u/Samjm876 2d ago
I think you’re misunderstanding I read quickly through what you said so I may be missing some context but tariffs are paid by the purchasing country, the way it affects up is that instead of our products that are sent to the U.S. that would cost 💲 10 usd now with the 10% tariff it with be $ 11 to import , what that does it cause importers to seek cheaper imports sources reducing the amount of sales on imports we produce to the U.S. thus what happening. We have always had tariffs on US imports (we call it customs fee) with his executive order it states that anybody who has tariffs (customs fees) on us put it back on their goods that are coming in to our country. So the U.S. consumer pays the taxes not us. Side note thou yes for all the goods that are shipped into the U.S. as a secondary stop before it gets to us there will be tariffs (customs fees) applied however I’m not sure if there are exempt products bcz I know persons purchase on alibaba recently and weren’t charged any “tariffs”
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u/Environmental_Tooth 2d ago edited 2d ago
All our goods make that secondary stop In the US is what I'm saying. Amazon doesn't ship your goods directly from china to Jamaica. If it's sold by Amazon it's purchased by them imported to the US and stored in a warehouse.
We buy all our tech directly from manufacturers in the US and they will be paying those tarrifs which will be passed on to us.
Example. You want to buy a graphics card. You identify a 5080 from Nvidia MSRP before tarrifs 800. Let's say last week you could get this card from Nvidia a us company at that price. If Nvidia has to restock these cards they go back to Taiwan and say ok we need more 5080s. They say great and send them over. Nvidia then imports these cards to the US and pays the 35% tarrifs. They then pass that cost over to you the consumer who isn't buying anything from Taiwan. So your graphics card purchase of 800 is now 1200. Even though you bought a product off Nvidia the cost increases astronomically because of how broad these tarrifs are.
A lot of our used cars are even the US versions that will now be at a higher cost. If these tarrifs go through and stay.
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u/Sensitive-Pie-6595 2d ago
if you look around you'll find that there are many people from China who work on the roads. they bring their families who open shops and import stuff direct.
I don't know anyone who shops online. We go and try on stuff, touch stuff.
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u/Environmental_Tooth 2d ago edited 2d ago
No one? Where do you live? Cause the vendors and shops are complaining say Amazon and asos a eat them food.
There was meme going around a couple of months ago after a party cause 5 man buy the same shirt from Asos and wear it go the same party.
You no look pan the news? The issues the vendors were complaining about make it as far as TVJ. Nobody nah come by then stores and them stall Fi buy fake items fi real prices.
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u/Sensitive-Pie-6595 2d ago
guess I'm rural.. when in town I go to certain shops.. i never bought online...
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u/Environmental_Tooth 2d ago edited 2d ago
Amazon now delivers directly to your house and they're running a promotion for free delivery on orders over $35.
So I see people weh live innah deep rural St E weh stop buy clothes and Dem thing deh out yah long time. So idk man you might just be old.
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u/Sensitive-Pie-6595 2d ago
if the price on Amazon goes up... well... won't hurt our local businesses
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u/Environmental_Tooth 2d ago
It will hurt us as Jamaicans unnecessarily and it will hurt our economy. Imagine not being able to get the latest tech because you're priced out due to tarrifs.
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u/Sensitive-Pie-6595 2d ago
or imagine instead of shipping to the US it ships to Mexico. and the stuff comes from there to here... leaving out the US.
So china avoids all the tariffs, Mexico gets happy, and we don't have a problem
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u/Environmental_Tooth 2d ago
Scale. You're not understanding the scale of US ports. Mexico doesn't have 1/100th of the scale the US does.
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u/iriefantasies 2d ago
Did you miss the report last Christmas with the grand market vendors saying no one is buying clothes again? They are in competition with temu and shein. Lots more ppl are shopping online, especially after the duty raised to 100$.
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u/zenoslayer 2d ago
What are you talking about? This is going to affect us.
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u/Sensitive-Pie-6595 2d ago
so we buy more from Canada and other places... why not?
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u/Green-Jellyfish7360 2d ago
Switching buyers and exporters is not as simple as changing which gas station you get gas cause the one up the road is cheaper than your usual one… There are products lined up right now to be exported that will cost a lot more than they did one week ago to import/export. Global trade is not just a “oh it’s more difficult here, let me switch”. It’s millions to billions of dollars. Maybe go and read up on how tariffs work before making such blanket statements and assumptions. It’s the same assumption trump is making by saying US car companies can produce in the US for much cheaper. Which is just not true and if it were they would have been manufacturing in the US from the beginning. The tariffs will definitely affect us in more ways than one.
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u/zenoslayer 2d ago
America is our largest trading partner by far. This is not a overnight change. People are going to feel it.
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u/Sensitive-Pie-6595 2d ago
be positive... the gov doesn't seem too worried... there is prob. a reason
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u/zenoslayer 2d ago
Lol. There is nothing positive about this. Just unnecessary inflation across the board.
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u/Sensitive-Pie-6595 2d ago
but the gov isn't making a fuss.... nor is the opposition
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u/tallawahroots 2d ago
Do you mean the same government that is in a general election mode? Not publicly making a fuss means nothing. They are deeply concerned and so is the business community.
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u/zenoslayer 2d ago
Why should the government make a fuss? Pretty much no country was exempt ftom the tariffs. It's not something we can do anything about so why complain?
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u/Bigzzzsmokes 2d ago
Tariffs will indirectly affect tourism and remittances. We all gonna feel it
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u/Sensitive-Pie-6595 2d ago
As the gov isn't acting like it is a big deal, maybe there is something we don't know
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u/Freethinker3o5 2d ago
Bc ur only making it a big deal bc u listen to the us democrats as if they know what’s best…so if they’re scared..then yall scared too…
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u/Freethinker3o5 2d ago
Let’s see how much people stop lining up in those American fast food restaurants in Jamaica…ie KFC, Pizza Hut, Wendy’s etc…
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u/Infamous_Fig2210 2d ago
Jamaica should follow the lead of Captain Ibrahim Troare of Burkina Faso 🇧🇫 and start looking within and start weaning ourselves off imports. With unstable colonial powers who are losing their grip on countries they used to dominate,it’s high time to start looking after ourselves and create a mindset that is beneficial to our very existence. We are Jamaicans,a spirited and powerful ppl, we need to unite and realize that we need each other to survive as a country and people.
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u/Sensitive-Pie-6595 2d ago
exactly. take cereal... we make a great granola here, in yard. take ketchup... local. take chocolate... local... a lot of stuff is quietly local. If you went to a supermarket in 1980 it was full of US stuff. In 2000 there was still US stuff but also from T'dad and other places, as well as local.
Walk into a supermarket and take a check
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u/KriosDaNarwal Don Gargamel 2d ago
As a lot of these other comments have said, this a narrow-minded take. Our companies have built entire supply chains around diaspora exports etc and for many thing we cannot produce in Jamaica. The US is our biggest import and export market. This will definitely affect prices and the economy
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u/Wolfiie_Gaming St. Catherine 2d ago
Tariffs are gonna fuck us regardless but it's only 10% so it's not THAT bad
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u/lovimoment 2d ago
Toyota, Honda and other Asian car manufacturers have factories in the U.S. Just because it’s an Asian brand doesn’t mean it was made in Asia.
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u/Diligent-Cake5649 2d ago
Jamaica is heavennnn 💛💚🖤 I would do aaaanytging to go to a supermarket that’s not like a capitalist mukbang
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u/ToobRaiders 1d ago
American here. Just wanted to say this isn’t what any of us voted for. I’m not sure why Jamaica is being targeted. This whole tariff idea was sold as a plan to target our adversaries, not our partners. I hope there is still love between the people despite our government.
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u/dumbanfun 21h ago
I came to your beautiful country last year from America. It was great and I wish you all the best. At this time as an American and the state of things I don’t see us traveling abroad anytime soon. So, yes it does affect you, and I’m sorry. I did not vote for this fucking idiot
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u/soriano88 1d ago
It will be difficult be most will need to realign themselves away from USA they can’t be trusted, they will create unnecessary hardship across the world
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u/Sensitive-Pie-6595 1d ago
I always had a distrust of America... how they promised to help then left people behind. It gives them too much power when they can decree what we can and can not buy.
I think it will work positively .. we will buy from other places and make it ourselves.
It will be a bit rocky, yes, but we can, and a realignment is wise
a
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u/stewartm0205 Kingston 1d ago
I lived in the States and most of the stuff we buy is from China. The cars are from Europe and Japan. We only buy food and drinks locally. We are in for a world of hurt.
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u/Sensitive-Pie-6595 1d ago
oh yes.. all that has to happen is for China to leave out the US and ship directly to all other countries in the Western Hemisphere.
Instead of shipping from China to the US it ships to Mexico or another nation, then on to the other nations.
In my country they have been making a lot of local food stuff to avoid US.
This tariff thing is going to go extremely badly for the US, much worse than for other nations
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u/Sudden-Willow 2d ago
The tariffs will hurt commercial enterprises more than consumers.
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u/ExcitementRecent7337 2d ago
Another individual that doesn’t understand tariffs. It very well will affect them, key word affect but at the end of the day the consumer is the ones that the cost is past on to.
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u/Grimcharnn 2d ago
All of a sudden people care about tariffs because Trump is doing them. People need to go do some research on what the tariffs are for goods shipped from Jamaica to Canada or Jamaica to the UK.
Obviously it has negative implications on our economy, so I wouldn’t say I’m a fan of it. However why shouldn’t America match what other countries do?
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u/KriosDaNarwal Don Gargamel 2d ago
Tariffs arent as simple as u charge 10 I charge 10. Theres way more nuance to a trade agreement between countries with such a huge difference in GDP
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u/Grimcharnn 2d ago
I guess you think I meant match Jamaica. Not what I meant, Canada has tariffs on Jamaican goods, UK has tariffs on Jamaican goods, most countries do (huge difference in GDP from the countries I listed). So again why shouldn’t America do the same?
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u/KriosDaNarwal Don Gargamel 2d ago
UK/Eu has specific excise duties due to eu free trade deal. We have a trade deal with canada and we have a trade deal with the USA. trump's tariffs are outside the realm of that, damaging to the existing agreements and will hurt the country. This stuff is google-able if you didnt know, stop barking up the wrong tree. The US is both our biggest import and export market and you dont see where breaking existing trade deals and implementing widescale tariffs is bad? Economics isnt as simple as "you charge 10, we charge 10".
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u/Sensitive-Pie-6595 2d ago
For years and years I have been talking about local and buying from other countries, not the US. A few listened and we do have a lot of local stuff and from other nations, not the uS.
The way Trump make such a drama out of the tariffs got a lot of people worried. He did it on purpose... obviously...
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u/dearyvette 2d ago
While these are concerning and ambiguous times, for everyone, and being emotional about this is only human, please choose your words mindfully. Personal attacks, racism, and gatekeeping comments will be removed.
Fair warning.