Tariffs shouldn't really Hurt us

[u/Sensitive-Pie-6595]

Those who live in Yard know that for so long we have been creating our own products, and buying from anywhere but the US. This goes back to the 1980s when America would give us 'string loans'... that is... they loan us $X but it can only be used to buy American products.

There was a time when in a supermarket big loooong aisles full of US stuff.

Over the years we started to quietly replace them with local products so that we didn't those loans.

We also started buying from other islands so that we had stuff from T'dad and of course, China.

Just before Trump did his tariff thing I looked at where my stuff came from.

Okay, everything that plugs in comes from China. Almost all my clothes come from China.

Now, my groceries.

I buy local stuff and stuff that comes from T'dad and every where else. Like this yogurt I use on my cereal comes from France, the other from Spain and the cereal is Jamaican. The coffee is Jamaican and I use Lasco instead of coffee mate.

The kind of flat breads/wraps i use are made in Jamaica as are the vegetables, soup, porridge, chocolate... in fact... I read labels before purchase.

if you look on the roads we have Toyota, Sukuzi... I haven't seen a US car since some years ago this Dodge.

I think Jamaica is not going to suffer very much because we wisely moved to standing on our own.

[u/xraxraxra]

The United States are far and beyond our biggest trade partners in both imports and exports. There are verifiable numbers behind this fact that appear in the gleaner every week. This will definitely have an effect on us.

[u/Sensitive-Pie-6595 → u/xraxraxra]

not if we don't buy stuff from the US. I just had cereal that is made here, coffee that is grown here.

[u/No_Cabinet7357 → u/Sensitive-Pie-6595]

We would have to find a new supplier for fuel, electronics and machinery though, as the US is currently our biggest source for those things.

On the export side, our exports are going to be more expensive for US consumers, meaning they'll probably buy less from us.

[u/sus_on_deeznutz → u/No_Cabinet7357]

What would they purchase as a substitute for Jamaican goods? A lot of other countries got hit by tariffs and it's not like America can actually supply themselves with produce without it being very expensive just like the tarrif goods

[u/No_Cabinet7357 → u/sus_on_deeznutz]

They don't necessarily have to substitute, they could just buy less. If goods are more expensive you'd expect demand to reduce.

You're preaching to the choir about the prices being high in the US, but the president has spoken.

[u/Sensitive-Pie-6595 → u/No_Cabinet7357]

what if we get it direct from China? the stuff is made there, they can bring here directly

[u/AndreTimoll → u/Sensitive-Pie-6595]

We currently do that but they still use US Ports when shipping so that's going increase the price ,and they use Mexico ,Jamaica and the Panama Canal that's going put a strain on those ports leading to delays which will increase the shipping costs and that's going to lead to higher prices.

The entire region will be affected one way or the other until the alternative ports can increase their storage capacity and effiency in processing the containers.

[u/Freethinker3o5 → u/Sensitive-Pie-6595]

What if you just let china just own all of Jamaica? U think the Chinese will let you keep your culture?? Didn’t they ban bibles in china? And controlled the women’s reproductive rights?? Com on now…stop feeding yourself with American democrat/socialist propaganda…

[u/Wolfiie_Gaming → u/Freethinker3o5]

Sigh. A bunch of misinformation in your comment.

1) China isn't trying to erase other countries cultures. There's plenty of countries that have worked extensively with China, especially under Brics, to be an alternative to the US dominated markets and the reign of the US dollar and they still have all their autonomy.

2) I won't comment too much on the Uyghers, as I do believe they've done things to that group including sterilization. But for Chinese citizens, that's just straight up propaganda. They don't sterilize their women. What they did is that during the height of the 1 child policy, they'd put monetary and social restrictions on families who did have more than one child to disincentivize having more children. Having 2 children is already expensive enough as is, and not being able to use government programs will run the average family's pockets.

3) They restricted every religion. It particularly has to do with its ties to colonialism and they decided that it causes too much division amongst people, so they developed a culture around secularism. You're not gonna get pinned down and arrested for having a Bible on your person tho. I know this cause there's Jehovah's Witnesses that operate in China, though they don't have huge facilities like what they have here and in America.

[u/Jamaica-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

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[u/Freethinker3o5 → u/Wolfiie_Gaming]

Thanx for taking time out of your day to further elaborate what I basically said..however, buying a Chinese product and stamping it with a Jamaican flag for a Jamaican dollar..doesn’t make the product less made by china

[u/frazbox → u/No_Cabinet7357]

Which can also be a positive for Jamaicans. If they don’t buy out goods, we in Jamaica will have surplus making that item cheaper on the local market

[u/tallawahroots → u/frazbox]

That describes less foreign currency earning capacity. Yay, I feel so old remembering how my parents jumped hoops in those days when a bicycle for Christmas meant finding USD for the store and then it was stolen on Boxing Day.

[u/zapotron_5000 → u/tallawahroots]

Jah kno....

[u/Ali_Cat222 → u/tallawahroots]

Preach 😮‍💨 some people on here never lived in Jamaica and it shows.... Liek dat one mon tryna cause discourse pon deh chat 😂

[u/Calm_Guidance_2853 → u/frazbox]

"If they don’t buy out goods, we in Jamaica will have surplus making that item cheaper on the local market"

Goods will still be bought, but not as much as they could without the tariff. Producers will just decrease production for the decrease in sales.

[u/Sensitive-Pie-6595 → u/frazbox]

that would be fantastic... I am 'addicted' to blue mountain so you know that if the price came down....

I think Trump has shot himself in the foot. The gov doesn't seem too worried.

[u/robyculous_v2 → u/No_Cabinet7357]

Venezuela has fuel.

[u/Freethinker3o5 → u/robyculous_v2]

Venezuela?? Lmao

[u/SAMURAI36 → u/Sensitive-Pie-6595]

Breden, JA imports nearly 50% of our products. What you're saying is a moot point.

[u/Sensitive-Pie-6595 → u/SAMURAI36]

well not in my yard. But then i am kinda local focused

[u/SAMURAI36 → u/Sensitive-Pie-6595]

That's still irrelevant tho. You said Jamaica. Not just your yard.

[u/Sensitive-Pie-6595 → u/SAMURAI36]

let us start from China NOT shipping to the US which ships to us. China uses Mexico as it's middle.

So, China evades tariffs, Mexico gets its take, and we don't feel a thing

[u/SAMURAI36 → u/Sensitive-Pie-6595]

This is a lot of wishing that you're doing, Bredren. And honestly, I don't think you have the best grasp of the topic.

It's true, the US is JA's biggest exporter, but the other countries put together outnumber the US by almost twice.

https://globaledge.msu.edu/countries/jamaica/tradestats

[u/xraxraxra → u/Sensitive-Pie-6595]

Separate and apart from what others have said, you are also focusing on your individual situation and ability to buy locally. Putting aside that it is impossible to buy everything we use locally or in a way that doesn't consist of economies that are intertwined with the US in some way (we don't make phones or computers in Jamaica so what you're communicating with didn't originate from here) you're just focusing on your peculiar situation. This extends to the greater economic reality of the entire country.

[u/Sensitive-Pie-6595 → u/xraxraxra]

when you go to a supermarket here look at where the stuff comes from. Notice how few American products are on the shelves.

[u/frazbox → u/Sensitive-Pie-6595]

Similarly, you can go to America and see Grace products and they were not made in Jamaica 🤷🏾‍♂️

I don’t see the point you’re trying to make

[u/AndreTimoll → u/Sensitive-Pie-6595]

You view on this is very narrowed minded ,first off yes we can buy foods from local and regional partners the cost those foods will still increase because these tariffs because the raw materials either come from countries affected or have to go through US ports and due to this trade war shipping cost will increase.

You might say ok they can go through the Panama Canal that will also increase the cost of shipping because there is currently a battle of ownership of canal.

Second you only mentioned that we have alot of local replacements for food ,what about eletronics, cars,construction materials that can't be made here due to not having the raw material and factories here,clothes,and shoes.

We can replace clothes and shoes but that's going take alot of time and land space to build the factories and train the staff to make them because we don't have enough tailors/dressmakers and shoe makers.

For everything else those come from China,Japan,South Korea,America and Europe.

China,Japan and South Korea all US Ports to reach the Caribbean,Central and South America so the price of their products will increase for us because of this trade war.

For America assembled eletronics, cars,and construction materials just to name a few all get their raw materials from China so again shipping cost for those companies like Apple,GE,Whirlpool will pass those increased shipping cost on to us the consumers.

[u/tallawahroots → u/AndreTimoll]

We can replace clothes and shoes but that's going take alot of time and land space to build the factories and train the staff to make them because we don't have enough tailors/dressmakers and shoe makers.

Andre, I don't have much time but this stood out to me. There never has been textile production in the true sense thanks to our history. Sea Island cotton is beautiful fibre (I work with different forms of cotton from seed, ginned and the combed-slyver). My understanding is that it's all sold to European buyers, and demand is already high. That market isn't available to us basically. The only Sea Island cotton I could source is from a US company.

That's our only fibre production. Once, I tried to urge hemp fibre production and got shouted down. So even if you could do a first time textile mill in Jamaica, train mill staff, process and spin fibre competitively you still now need capital and industrial knowledge for the looms. Importing everything. For a market that loves textiles and has a very high appreciation for quality. It's such a hard business that it got almost fully wiped out in Canada, and the US and Europe. They have the diversity of growing flax (just efforts to rebuild) and the industrial complex that is a worldwide protein fibre market (wool and hair fibres we can't feasibly grow).

And shoes. I know a lady who stopped making her popular sandals because of materials cost and availability. Then there's all the problems of factories and cost of electricity, being targets of crime.

This is something I wish we had government buy-in for but am frankly saying that clothing self-sufficiency is both hugely important and bigger than piecework by sewists which we can do for sure.

[u/AndreTimoll → u/tallawahroots]

I said the same thing in a concise way so I don't understand your disagreement with what I said.

[u/tallawahroots → u/AndreTimoll]

Your point was not the same. What I noted is that we agree about clothing, shoes as imports but that the enterprise for actual self-sufficiency in textiles is more than either clothing or simple garment construction. There is a huge vale add from that we pay when we don't produce the fibre, yarn or cloth. It's a bigger scope. Sheets, sailcloth, linens, furnishings, etc. are also all imported. The only mill I ever heard of was the carpet mills.

[u/Sensitive-Pie-6595 → u/AndreTimoll]

why should China continue to use the US as the 'middle man' when they can come direct? Think of the hefty tariffs on China, think of all the stuff China sells here and in South America.

cut out the uS and set up to come to the southern hemisphere direct.

Or use Mexico as the middle.

[u/AndreTimoll → u/Sensitive-Pie-6595]

Even if they come directly Jamaica as the central hub for the region,or use Mexico or The Panama Canal that's still going to increase shipping costs because increased demand will lead to delays which companies have to pay and they are going to pass those extra fees on to us.

The mainly point here is none of the alternative port can manage the increase demand so that's going to lead to delays which will lead to companies paying more duties and taxes and that's going to be added to the cost of products so there is no way around this for the foreseeable future.

But on the other hand this is a huge opportunity for Africa and the region mainly Jamaica because we are the gateway to the rest of the islands to start trading and building factories to make cheaper durable replacements.