I'm Curious!

[u/jess3pinkm44n]

Hi guys! This might be an annoying question, and please disregard if it is, but I am currently researching left libertarianism for a final project, which I was hoping to take in a creative direction.

To be precise, I plan on writing a manifesto. I want to lay out an economic alternative to capitalism, but I have to be honest, I am confused about/disagree with the "free market" aspect of Left Libertarianism.

I do not believe the "free market" is real (meaning, it is not free in the sense that most people think it is. Markets are all regulated to some extent). I'm curious if it offers a reconceptualization of the free market OR if there is a different approach to how a market system works.

Also, in terms of a stateless society, is there concern that it could devolve into an "Angels among men" situation, similar to what we see in capitalism, where individuals still might be exploited despite the absence of a state?

[u/spookyjim___]

I’ll tackle the first half of your question by clarifying that left-libertarianism/libertarian socialism is considered a broad school of multiple different socialist tendencies, some of whom want a free market socialist system, and others, mainly communists, who don’t…

The tendency I tend to identify with (autonomism), which is considered a part of libertarian socialism by most, is communist, so I don’t want any type of market system whether it proclaims to be “free” or not

But to try my best to answer in good faith on behalf of market socialists within the libertarian left, most of them conceive of a “free market” a little bit differently, I personally cannot go into detail about it cuz I just think it’d be more useful on your part to ask them directly, r/marketanarchism and r/market_socialism are probably your best bets (tho rmarketsocialism tends to have more democratic socialists than libertarian socialists)… but ye most left-libertarian market socialists (really mainly individualist anarchists/left-rothbardians) perceive of the free market as only possible within a socialist society (which they conceive of as a stateless society with worker/cooperative and individual artisanal ownership of the means of production)

[u/Coises]

The thing is, we don’t have any real-world examples of working libertarianism (left or right) in a modern context. (I suspect that if there are any historical or anthropological examples, they would be in societies vastly different in scale and economics than our own; but I don’t know.) So any intellectually honest approach to the potential of left libertarianism must begin with the understanding that we can only suggest avenues for exploration. We can’t say what would actually work. No one knows that.

Just a thought: Perhaps, if there is really no such thing as a “free market,” we should instead try to conceive of a “fair market” (analogous to “fair trade” vs “free trade”).

Perhaps I’m not a “true believer”; but I don’t think a completely stateless society is likely to be possible at scale. There will always be variance, and human nature thus far suggests some of those variants will have a lust for power. Without some form of organization, some of those power-seekers will succeed in aggregating power (whether through wealth, influence or violence). Whether you call it a state or something else, I think there has to be a constrained, “least of evils” power that exists to prevent the rise of more obnoxious power. I don’t like that, but I don’t see that it’s realistic to expect that it can be any other way.

I don’t know if that’s any help. I’m not a scholar.

[u/FunkyTikiGod → u/Coises]

Modern Zapatista society is a popular example of IRL left libertarianism. It has lasted for over 30 years with around 300,000 people.

It doesn't have a free market (I don't think that's actually a very common idea on the left) but a mix of cooperatives and mutual aid.

Zapatista communities blend money-based exchange with communal access and barter, depending on the region and what’s being produced or needed.

So you may work in a cooperative and get paid a wage, but this is primarily to purchase rare commodities that can't be produced locally. You get most of your needs for free from the communal supply. The "profit" from your cooperative trading with the outside world is also equally invested back in the whole community, rather than individuals accumulating wealth.

[u/jess3pinkm44n → u/FunkyTikiGod]

This really helped me out-- thank you for sharing!!