Last time I argued about school bus safety and kids running across roads without looking, I got ripped apart by Americans. In Australia we teach kids to hop off buses safely and look both ways before crossing a road after the bus has pulled away.
"Stop when red lights are flashing" on our school buses. Sure, like...the kid has right-of-way, but that doesn't mean you can just turn your brain off and cross.
Not that I don't see on average at least 1 person a day cross a street diagonally, slowly, looking at their phone or eyes straight-forward, letting Jesus take the wheel.
Anytime I cross a street, my head is on a damn swivel.
Yeah like by the same damn logic you wouldn't teach the kids to look both ways when crossing the street when you have a green light either. You do it always when you cross regardless of the situation because some people break the rules. There are plenty of dead people who had the right of way.
Same here. My classmate lost her sister just like this. Yes, people and drivers should be observant, but reality isn't a theory test.
I saw my classmate's face going from a happy young girl to this mask of absolute emptiness. There was nothing I could do being a very, very dumb boy other than staying away while her friends tried to support her.
I think about her every time I see a school bus stop. I follow the rules around busses like if I hat two police officers in the back watching me, but really it's just the memory of the sister sitting there.
Yeah I too remember a kid at my school got hit by a car and died back in the 90s. It was near the local soccer field and I still remember the pedestrian crossing that was put in the spot of the accident everytime I used to drive past.
I’m a school bus driver in California, USA and every driver I know absolutely emphasizes safety above all else. My state would require I exit and cross a student this young with my handheld stop sign, but not all states make this requirement. This driver seems to be blocking most of the road though.
All that said, it’s moments like these that make my day as a driver. Kids are gonna be kids and I do my absolute best to be sure they get home safe.
YES! I'm tired of everyone bashing the US in some of these comments. We have all been taught school street/bus safety since we were in preschool and it was hammered into us all the time the moment we started kindergarten! We also had it drilled into us in driver's ed to never pass a bus with flashing lights so anyone who does that must be an asshole or drunk. I just hate when people talk bad about Americans bc I think we do a really good job of educating street safety to kids! It's always that one idiot who makes us all look bad....
Why tf do America still use buses where you get out in the front? In my country (eu) we stopped getting off at the front of the bus 20 years ago, now all buses come with two doors and you step out in the middle/back and then there is no risk of running in front of the bus.
I'm not sure how that makes any difference. If the kid needs to cross the street it doesn't make any difference where they exit they still need to get around the bus
The difference is that kids wait for the buss to leave before crossing the street instead of taking the shortest path and speeding in front or behind of the bus like in the clip. It's just human psychology. In the eu we don't need forced stops behind busses cause of this, every bus has two doors. The danger is that car drivers don't see the kids.
So, in my scenario I can watch the child safely cross the street, give them directions, or even get out of my bus to help them cross the street. In your scenario, the driver is gone and on their merry way leaving the kid to fend for themselves. That wouldn’t fly here… below a certain age we have a legal responsibility to see the kids to their guardian.
I would rather the kid cross in front of the bus— after all it’s where people are expecting it to happen. There’s a required feature on our busses called a “crossing arm”, it projects out from the front of the bus at a stop and prevents kids from crossing in the first 6 feet in front of the bus. This provides visibility for me and other drivers. I can also simply block the road sometimes. But ultimately I do my best to put my door on the correct side of the road so no crossing is needed.
Our school buses are designed by legislation with safety in mind. That’s why they all look the same and are very different from our public transit buses which are designed around efficiency. Per mile, school buses are the safest form of transportation we have on the road, so I think we’re doing something right.
With that aspect I suppose it makes more sense, over here ain't no1 caring if you get home it's common for kids to bike by themselfs to the school bus pickup point
Bro, the point is that the drivers see the bus. It's the law to stop in all directions for a school bus in all 50 states. It works fine for us. The bus dropping off the kid and then driving away to let them fend for crossing the street themselves seems insane. The school bus is basically saying this whole-ass street is closed until my red lights go off.
I still fail to see how having doors on the side of the bus would make this any safer. He'd either be left on the opposite side of the road from his house (and have to cross on his own after the bus left, according to you?) or he'd be getting off literally into the opposing lane of traffic... and everyone would have to stop, just like they already do everywhere in the US.
Like, c'mon. So many other criticisms you can lay on Americans. We can take it. Our school busses are fine. It's literally the safest form of transportation in the US that any child takes.
What I am reacting too is that Americans here seem to be upset about that I pointed out that the kid did not look at either directions before crossing the road. Because of "You are supposed to stop your car when the school buss is stationary and flashing with lights". 1) There are people who brake the rules 2) Where I live you do not have to stop your car, but slow down and be cautious. 3) It is good to teach your kid some form of self preservation.
We, the rest of the western world, do of course also have some rather strong opinions about the US at the moment with your Cheetos in command. Though that hurts the MAGA folks feelings and they then cry for mods to step in. So I rather not do that here at least!
We teach kids to look both ways when they cross the street too, I don't know why you think that's different here (ironic, given your comment of Americans being close-minded and not open to how things operate elsewhere). The added measure of school buses having deployable stop signs and crossing arms, plus the steepest penalties possible for passing a stopped school bus shows, if anything, we take this safety issue VERY seriously.
We enforce the things we are able to enforce. I'm not sure what you think anyone could have done differently in this video to make a 6 year old kid look both ways before crossing in front of the bus. Unless you wanted the bus driver to literally walk out there with him, I'm not sure how you could do that.
The exit is on the right of the bus, which is the same side as which cars drive in the US: it would put alighting passengers on the sidewalk. But this bus is stopped in the middle of the road, possibly to discourage cars from trying to overtake.
Our school buses have stop signs with flashing lights attached that deploy when the driver stops and opens the door. So, yes, someone could just try to go around but it’s illegal and most people don’t because they know a kid is about to get out.
As a non American this is such a bizarre way of doing it.
Here in Australia the bus driver would actively stop kids from crossing in front of the bus cos they can't see what's coming.
But US kids just get to run blindly out onto the road and hope people stop??
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IoMekyvBkv0 every state's law varies slightly, but all require drivers to stop if a bus has its stop arm extended & flashing red lights (when kids are getting off the bus)... some states vary saying whether or not the opposite lane has to stop as well, but all of them at least say the same lane must stop... it's a major traffic violation if not. Kids should not be permitted to just blindly run out on the road so idk what the fuck this video is all about... Ughhhh :(
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IoMekyvBkv0 every state's law varies slightly, but all require drivers to stop if a bus has its stop arm extended & flashing red lights (when kids are getting off the bus)... some states vary saying whether or not the opposite lane has to stop as well, but all of them at least say the same lane must stop... it's a major traffic violation if not. Kids should not be permitted to just blindly run out on the road so idk what the fuck this video is all about... Ughhhh :(
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IoMekyvBkv0 every state's law varies slightly, but all require drivers to stop if a bus has its stop arm extended & flashing red lights (when kids are getting off the bus)... some states vary saying whether or not the opposite lane has to stop as well, but all of them at least say the same lane must stop... it's a major traffic violation if not. Kids should not be permitted to just blindly run out on the road so idk what the fuck this video is all about... Ughhhh :(
Genuine question, when are the kids supposed to cross the street in this case?
As a kid, my bus driver got upset with me one time for crossing behind the bus, because she said that she couldn't see me and couldn't know if it was okay to put the flashing stop sign down or not.
And hope that drivers stop for the big flashing stop sign that extends from the other side of the bus, yes. Nobody really wants to be the one who ran a kid over, you know? Also, running the school bus stop signs comes with a hefty fine, so even if they don't care about the children, they probably care about their wallets.
Also also, I remember being taught by the school to let the bus leave the stop before trying to cross. Granted thirty years was a long-ass time ago, but I'd certainly hope they still teach that to kids
(can't argue your point that things aren't normal or good here, though, yeesh)
Genuine question, how and when are the kids supposed to cross the street in this case, then?
As a kid, my bus driver got upset with me one time for crossing behind the bus, because she said that she couldn't see me and couldn't know if it was okay to put the flashing stop sign down or not.
I've seen driver who kept on driving with that bus stop sign lifted from the opposite lane. Got chewed out by the bus driver, point is some people just drive badly
Actually should have gotten a major ticket for that! highly illegal. Glad he got chewed out! If you ever kit a kid, it will haunt you til the day you die... My grandma always talks about one of her grandparents accidentally hitting a kid that ran in front of the car & they thankfully lived but it haunted them forever.
Former bus driver here. In my training the kids should be taught and made to wait in front of the bus outside and not to cross until the bus driver signals it's ok. Even then they were taught to look both ways before crossing and after the green light is given.
In other countries we educate our kids not to walk onto a street without looking both ways. Here, they're also taught to only cross when the bus has left, so their view isn't impaired.
Bus driver probably (hopefully) made sure the coast was clear. I remember my bus drivers as a kid would make sure the coast was clear and then wave us across.
this is the real answer. the bus driver looked to see that there's nobody coming either way and gave the kid the green light. its most obvious because he's sitting waiting for the door to open at the beginning.
You aren't supposed to run red lights or drive drunk either yet some people do. The point is, it is dangerous and dumb to assume everyone is going to follow all the rules, all the time. There's no reason for an adult (bus driver) to be encouraging this behavior regardless of how cute it is. Surely you've heard the expression, 'It's all fun and games until someone gets hurt'?
I'm absolutely positive that bus driver had eyes on his mirrors and made sure that there were no cars coming before he let that kid off that bus.
Would you bet your kids life on that? I'm sure the bus driver was looking too. But I would strongly prefer it if all people, especially kids, always looked both ways before crossing a street.
Yeah like what the fuck are these people arguing against? We're just saying that kids should look both ways when crossing the street and the Americans are flooding over arguing against it for some fucking reason.
My gut feeling is that they don't want to admit that there's a systematic flaw with how they raise their kids in this regard and instead of admitting it and fixing it by teaching kids to always look both ways, they just hide behind "it's not allowed".
I watched a 15-year old boy on rollerblades lose control going down a hill and zoom into an intersection against the light and get run over by a bus. Died instantly. It was very traumatic. This video is not an example of that.
I do, but would you bet your child's life that everyone does? To run a cross the road infront of a buss like that is an accident in the making. We are taught that at home and school from an early age ( not American).
The person you are responding to is saying they know this and observe this; but others don't. It's not a question about who is going to jail — the prime motivation here should be to make sure children don't get hurt even if dumbtards are driving on the road that day.
What does this mean? Right to due process is enshrined in the constitution. They may take you to jail immediately (which happens for many things), but you still get a court case.
well kinda they have cameras on most busses now and if it isn't a 100% yeah you will get a judge but the only time you see a judge in a case like that is when your being sentenced its a very odd crime
Source? Traffic laws like this are covered by the states, so you'll have 50 versions. In California, it's a fine of up to $1,000 and license revocation of up to 1 year. But those are max penalties. I didn't see anything about skipping trial, and that would violate the 5th and 14th amendments.
Sure, the bus had his hazard lights on so here you are allowed to pass the bus with walking speed (busses here don't have a "stop arm" like school busses in the US). Yet, the transporter hit the kid with ~20mph as it ran across the street in front of the bus.
sure, the kid passed the street without looking
sure, the driver of the car was way to fast to react to something he wasnt able to see in time. that's why he was also sued for involuntary manslaughter
nevertheless, there were to options to prevent the kid from dying. one was a driver less stupid and the other was a kid teached not to trust in the sanity of car drivers
And as we all know everyone in the US follows every traffic rule. /s
Sure people are supposed to, but I've seen a bunch of videos over the years of people not stopping for busses, crossing guards, red lights, etc. Either them just being in a hurry and not wanting to wait or being distracted like being on their phones. Kids should be taught to look both ways even if they have the right-of-way.
I live in the US and nearly got squished as a kid by a car running the bus stop sign. Stopping and looking before crossing the road saved my bacon.
What made it even funnier was that I always looked before crossing the street, and it really bothered the bus driver for some reason. He even scolded me for it a couple times and told me it absolutely wasn't necessary and he'd only tell me to cross when it was safe. He even scolded me the day I nearly got run over. He didn't do it after that, though, lol.
He even scolded me for it a couple times and told me it absolutely wasn't necessary and he'd only tell me to cross when it was safe.
What the fuck? I thought this was just people not teaching kids to look both ways, but some people actually endorse not looking? What the fuck is wrong with people? Are they trying to get kids killed?
We also have these ridiculous "crossing guards" at intersections near schools in America. They're supposed to direct traffic and stop cars so that kids can cross the street to/from school. I hate them because they're basically teaching the kids NOT to look.
One of my favorite videos is when a bunch of cops set up a bunch of dip shit drivers. A school bus stop on a busy road had complaints of drivers not stopping. So like 10 cops waited in a nearby parking lot, once the bus stopped a bunch of people flew by and they all got pulled over.
Drivers are obligated to stop for pedestrians in the roadway but that doesn't stop thousands of pedestrians being killed every year. Best to teach people to look both ways.
School Bus Driver in Illinois here. Not sure where the video is from.
Drivers are not allowed to film students. (The company or district is allowed to place permanent cameras however)
You need to be watching the road, the death zone (area 10 ft around all sides of the bus), and all of your mirrors while loading/unloading students.
You are supposed to remind kids to WALK not run while loading/unloading.
The driver is participating in and encouraging unsafe behavior that will either get them fired from this route, the district, or the company as a whole.
That’s the not point. A kid should always be taught to look before they cross the road, doesn’t matter that the law requires cars to stop. Someone near me was run over at a crosswalk with the right of way. The fact that they had the right of way doesn’t bring them back to life.
Nah, you can't overtake a school bus, he had the right of way, so if anything happened his broken bones would magically fix themselves and he would be ok, that's how traffic laws work bro.
In the video you hear the driver tell the child to look at him and give him a thumbs up. In NY at least that's law I believe, driver is supposed to make eye contact with student and then give the ok to cross. That's standard crossing procedure, it is incredibly hard to enforce with a bus full of young screaming kids. You see how the driver reminds him immediately before he gets off the bus and by the time the kid gets to the crossing arm its out of his head.
That's why there are redundant safety things, like the flashing lights, the crossing arm, the stop signs, and things like blocking this small side street entirely with the body of the bus.
Was a dispatcher and route supervisor from 2017-2022, people passing reds was not very common. Its one of those things that's not just illegal but also a socially unacceptable thing.
Driver did tell him to wait. Then he checked his mirrors and opened the door. You're right though I have seen plenty of tesla drivers blow the buses stop signs.
I honestly get so anxious when I approach a school bus. I rarely do. And so I'm not as mentally conditioned to stop for a bus stop sign as I am a stoplight or stop sign. Simply by virtue of doing one maybe 3 times a year, and doing the others every day for the past 20 years.
I've never come close to accidentally doing anything illegal. But it makes me nervous as fuck. Same with pedestrians and bicyclists. When you grow up in the country, you're not used to pedestrians on the road unless they're walking on the dirt alongside. Nobody crosses the road with the right of way, and there aren't many pedestrians in general.
Here in the states, a school bus with it's lights on and signs out has functionally higher 'authority' than an ambulance. EVERYTHING that could come near a school bus stops. Like even divided highways sometimes pause for them if that's what needs to happen.
Secondly I can tell that's a suburban neighborhood, (single stop sign, unmarked roads, 2 different asphalt, shady trees) max speed limit there is 30mph, and you'd get squinted at if you actually went that fast. AND everyone who lives around there knows when the busses are dropping off kids, probably to the nearest 10 minutes too.
And the cemetery is full of people who had the right of way. Yes cars should stop but that doesn’t mean they do. Still, the best practice is to have kids look first cause there may be some jack ass who just won’t stop.
auto stop sign on the side of the bus. Plus I'm pretty sure that the bus driver has a signal to give him, to let him know it's clear (i.e. won't even open the door until he sees all traffic stopped)
That’s why school buses have the stop sign that pops out and why everyone should pay attention and stop for it. I bi-weekly see a car pass a stopped bus with the stop sign out, I honk at them.
But there are. Murders shouldn't happen but they do. Should people not take self defense classes or carry defensive weapons because the law protects them sufficiently?
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u/finfisk2000 1d ago edited 14h ago
The kid never looked for traffic on either side and just ran infront of the buss. A passing car would never had any chance to react.
Edit: In my profession I do risk assesments and investigate accidents.