r/MuayThai 1d ago

Cardio seems to never get better

Post image

Been training 5-6 days a week majority 2 sessions per day for almost a year consistently. Still, no matter what gym I go to I always seem to have the worst cardio there.

I am 25, 6'0' weight about 71.5 kgs or 159 lbs, always eat good amount of carbs before training, sleep at least 7-8 hours before training, eat relatively clean.

My max HR is around 195 and my resting is around 55 but whenever I do any basic things that should only get me up to zone 2 (shadow boxing, skipping, slow running) I find myself at 80-90% my max.

The image I included is from a short 3.5km run (where I started walking around 10 minutes in). My hr seems to rise fast and decline slowly. Here is another image of my HR for 30 mins of sparring.

Has anyone experienced this or have any advice for me.

13 Upvotes

29 comments sorted by

18

u/perkidddoh 1d ago

You’re not doing enough to be at a lower intensity.

If it’s slow running, go slower.

If it’s skipping, skip slower.

Are you measuring this through a wrist watch hr monitor or is it a chest strap? Chest strap are usually more accurate.

1

u/SwagLord125 1d ago

I am using a chest strap. For me to stay in zone 2 I would have to walk only and not really possible for skipping.

Should I be forcing myself into zone 2 by just walking/fast walking instead of running?

11

u/nickygw 1d ago

yeh apparently just keep walking in zone 2 until ur body adapts to it

2

u/SwagLord125 1d ago

Alright, I'll start forcing more zone 2 training.

I should have included outside of the gym I am very sedentary, so I don't get a lot of steps in and it might make sense that my aerobic is worse than my anaerobic.

9

u/PerformativeLanguage 1d ago

Careful OP

The app you're using is a Polar. It's heart rate zones are extremely inaccurate. It's very good at measuring heart rate, but it's zones aren't properly measured.

Plug your max heart rate and resting heart rate into the karvonen formula. Those zones tend to be a more accurate measurement.

There's even more detailed ways of doing it than that. But part of the reason you're not in zone 2 is because the polar app places zone 2 heart rate parameters much lower than they should be.

1

u/SwagLord125 1d ago

Zone 2 is just 60-70% of your maximum hear rate you input to the app.

4

u/PerformativeLanguage 1d ago

As I said. Look up Karvonen formula.

If you try and train in zone 2 of that app then you'll fail what you're trying to accomplish.

My zone 2 upper heart rate is 147 for example.

1

u/SwagLord125 2h ago

Yesterday I did a lot of recording and it's better than I thought. I was able to jog very slowly and stay in zone 2 with some walking.

Maybe from that run or coincidentally the class right after my cardio felt a lot better. I was also forcing zone 2 while skipping, going as slow as possible and as fast as possible in the last minute. During the padwork, the trainer gave me opportunities to breathe, so my hr wasn't as high but I still felt a lot better than usual.

Running heart rate Class heart rate

1

u/perkidddoh 23h ago

Do a run/walk program until it becomes a run program. Talk to someone while you are running, if you find yourself having to take big gulps of air to form sentences, it might too hard but if you can keep talking without feeling you need to take in extra air, you could be at that gucci spot.

I forgot to mention that you should calculate your heart rate zones yourself. There’s various ways online. Most often, you should base it off your resting heart rate.

If you’re only wearing your heart rate when you work out and it’s basing your zones off that heart rate data, there’s a high chance that since it doesnt know your resting HR, it doesn’t really have the complete data to go by. I could be wrong.

I run (primary activity) and do most of my runs in zone 2, it’s hard and annoying to always track it but data gets you results assuming it’s accurate.

7

u/Fan_of_cielings 1d ago

If your rest, nutrition, training and everything else is all good, but you're unable to keep up, it might be a good idea to go talk to a doctor. There might be something medical going on.

6

u/_Metal_Face_Villain_ 1d ago

yep maybe something is wrong with his heart or lungs or even his nose. i think this is the best advice cuz working out this much consistently, with a good diet and enough sleep and not seeing any improvements on your cardio is not normal.

8

u/combinecrab 1d ago

Shadow boxing really shouldn't be getting you near 160bpm. Practice really low intensity for a long time

2

u/TheDotNetDetective Human Punching Bag 1d ago

I have very similar stats to you (other than age) and to me it looks very similar to when I was much less fit and when I havent given my body time to adjust to whatever workout Im doing.

I'm a fair bit older than you so it does make me worry about your heart health (are you a smoker by any chance?) but I have a very similar behaviour but as I continue past 30 odd minutes my heartrate will tend to drop and my body clearly adapts better to the exercise.

I would consider showing this to your doctor.

1

u/SwagLord125 1d ago

No I don't smoke or drink or take any drugs. Just water and milk.

I've never had any (apparent) medical issues, never been to a doctor so I'm not even familiar of the process of talking with a doctor 😭. Can I just go to a patient first?

2

u/moofthedog 1d ago

Maybe controversial but you could be overtraining at 2x a day, 5-6 days a week. I’d consider dropping down to 8-10 total training sessions per week or potentially less, giving yourself two full mandatory rest days where you walk at a moderate pace and stretch only, dialing back your intensity while doing skill focused activity like drills, shadow boxing, pads, etc. and reserving maximal exertion effort for higher intensity conditioning or sparring.

Tldr: more isn’t always better, see if you can make the most of less total time training

1

u/SwagLord125 1d ago

Also, I did get bloodwork done a few months ago, and everything was good except for low red blood count and hemoglobin. I just attributed excess training at the time since I was doing fight camp. I will get more bloodwork done to see if it's gone or not.

2

u/Fan_of_cielings 1d ago

Hemoglobin is the protein that is crucial for transporting oxygen. If it's low, that's most likely the issue with your cardio. I'm no doctor, but that seems odd since those counts should be improving with more cardio.

1

u/davy_jones_locket Adv Student 1d ago

I'm... At a loss.

Mine is opposite. I get into like 130s-140s while sparring. Barely over 100 skipping rope. Shadow boxing. 

But I run outside of training. I run between 2-10k 5 days a week. I cannot run in zone 2 at all. My z3 is a very slow pace, most of my run is in z4, regardless of distance or pace. I also use chest strap and wrist trackers. Been running consistently since covid times when gyms were closed too. 

Resting HR in mid 40s, max HR in 190s. 

1

u/NewTruck4095 20h ago

Are you a smoker? This could be playing a huge factor if you are a smoker.

1

u/MikeDoesEverything 19h ago

Doing too little of each one. Try just doing one exercise for a long time.

I was skipping regularly and wondering why my cardio has been up and down. Traded it for slow running for 30 minutes twice a week and had noticeable increase in cardio in the first couple of weeks.

I'm heavier and older than you although probably had the same problem of red lining heart rate instead of keeping it low and steady.

1

u/Pliskin1108 1d ago

So you mention training 5-6 days a week, but you also mention shadow boxing and a short 3k run where you also walked.

It might sound like a dumb question but, are you actually working your cardio? Like running a 10+k multiple times a week, going for 2-3 hours bike ride with good intensity, etc.

You will ramp your cardio up with sparring and shadow boxing, but marginally. To get better cardio, you need to do cardio.

And by the sound of it, you’re not doing enough of it.

2

u/lilchildsupport1 1d ago

how is he going to run 10k+ multiple times a week if he cant finish a 3k? have you missed the point entirely?

1

u/Pliskin1108 1d ago

By ramping it up. You are the one that missed my point it appears.

There is no way you can’t run more than 3k without having to take a walk when you trained for almost a year 5-6 days a week (?!). Unless OP is in an advanced phase of cancer or something, but let’s assume not.

My point is that OP does not actually work their cardio and that’s why it’s still shit a year in.

1

u/lilchildsupport1 1d ago

taking a guess from the post i'd say hes been training at an expectable intensity, his resting heart rate doesnt indicate hes sedentary, i think the issue stems from his respiratory system, which even if youve been training for a year, and you dont have good breathing technique, your body doesnt have good co2 thresholds, his vo2 max etc etc, it could definitely lead to him not being able to run or have abnormally high heart rates while sparring/shadowboxing. i could be wrong tho, but ive suffered from the same issue when i wasnt controlling my breathing properly

0

u/Pliskin1108 1d ago

There could be something underlying for sure. But OP did not even share their training regimen.

That’s exactly where I would start.

If someone says “I’m not getting strong” but they don’t lift weights and do nothing but run, you wouldn’t assume they have a muscle or skeletal issue, you’d tell them to lift.

So until OP proves me wrong with a proper cardio training regimen he’s followed diligently, then I’ll keep assuming he isn’t actually training his cardio the way he should.

-1

u/brickwallnomad 1d ago

Watches are not very accurate. I actually remember seeing a post recently about somewhere did a study on the accuracy of them? I don’t remember exactly what the study was or who did it, but they were off by quite a bit. Seem to think they tested quite a few brands and none of them were accurate.

3

u/TheDotNetDetective Human Punching Bag 1d ago

The chest strap this person is using is actually extremely accurate. I know because I have the same one.

1

u/GroundbreakingHope57 1d ago

how much do they cost? curios for my self.

2

u/SwagLord125 1d ago

I'm using a chest strap, I've tested it against my pulse a couple of times, and it's always dead accurate.