Benedict Arnold was a fucking American General. Servicemen and vets should be held to a higher standard, not be given leniency because of their uniform.
This, 100% this. I am an American veteran myself, there are rules and regulations, we are giving intensive training... I've been preaching that when a police officer commits a crime they should get a harsher punishment than the common man (or woman) for this exact same reason. We should know better. We have the training or the authority to do these things easier.... so when it happens and we have to deal with the consequences it should be worse for us.
ah yes the " Held to a higher standard" and being beyond reproach thing... only drilled and reiterated everyday in some shape or form in military and im absolutely dumbfounded when people toss that aspect when they leave military (or worse when at the end of the day and up on the blotter).
I also found that the "held to a higher standard" thing only applied to junior enlisted. Maybe that's just a navy thing, but senior enlisted who would lie or get caught in a DUI, would get off scott free, only to reprimand some poor E-3 before taking half months pay from them.
Former Army here. In the same week, a petite, skinny, white, female SGT was given extra duty for a DUI, whereas the tall, muscular, Black, male SGT was demoted to SPC. I’m not saying it was about race or good looks, of course.
Meanwhile, a SPC was court martialed for adultery. Technically they did him for FTR when the siren went off, but it was only a drill. So, he rolled the dice, declined non judicial punishment, took it to court martial, and lost.
Problem with US police, they get less training than comparable police forces around the world. Months compared to years. So, I think based on basic internet searches. Could be wrong.
I believe it. Unfortunately, here in the good ol’ USA, the bar can be low.
Side note, Iceland. Because of that Eurovision movie, I’m totally into Gagnamagnid(sp?). Can we have more awesome music this year, in general. I think we need it 😕
I serve the people of the United States, and live the Army Values.
I will always place the mission first.
I will never accept defeat.
I will never quit.
I will never leave a fallen comrade.
I am disciplined, physically and mentally tough, trained and proficient in my warrior tasks and drills.
I always maintain my arms, my equipment and myself.
I am an expert and I am a professional.
I stand ready to deploy, engage, and destroy, the enemies of the United States of America in close combat.
I am a guardian of freedom and the American way of life.
I am an American Soldier.
Also.. those American Values? LDRSHIP, Loyalty, Duty, Respect, Selfless service, Honor, Integrity, Personal courage. These guys missed all their marks.
The real irony being that had he died at Saratoga rather than just being injured there is a good chance he'd have died one of the most famous American patriots of the Revolution.
He was quite literally a hero. He just lived too long.
Take my dam upvote, I feel the same about all Leo's doctors and people that are held in trusted positions that take advantage from being in that position
Don’t forget Lee Harvey Oswald, John Allen Muhammad (DC sniper), William Bonin (Freeway killer), Denis Rader (BTK), etc.
Edit: David Berkowitz (Son of Sam)
Also: Charles Whitman (the UT tower killer), was found to have a brain tumor and asked in his suicide note for an autopsy to be done to see if there was something wrong with him. He sought medical and psychological help several times.
Eh, depends how you play I suppose. Technically if you’re pretty good and correctly practice things like fields of fire and how to properly sweep rooms, it could be kinda useful.
To be clear, I understand that’s a big stretch. But myself and some of my other veteran buddies DO use and teach some techniques we learned to people in FPS games at times. Again, big stretch that any of that is at play here. But it’s not the most ridiculous thing I’ve read...well today I guess. It’s been a weird day.
Who is saying BLM or Antifa are patriots...? When have you heard them claim to be patriots? Also how is attacking the building that represents the most essential aspect of our democracy the same as rioting at a protest in some city?
Are you actually this dumb or are you playing a character online...?
All the democrats who were supporting them while they burned cities and murdered people. ...
Source any example of that....
This girl broke a window...
Broke a window after breaking into the Capital Building and being told to stop trying to break into the secure room where the Vice President was. You’re genuinely a complete moron...
She got shot because the tried to go in unarmed and without any support.
You think if more people would have gone in armed no one would have been shot...? Do you think before you write things?
Which makes her a foolish patriot.
You just laid out that people rioting are not patriots, you JUST said that about BLM, but she’s a patriot for doing it? I refuse to believe you’re this stupid...
I really hate the way the right wingers have christened themselves "patriots" when they are acting specifically against the definition of the word.
I think of it as the equivalent of some specific drug cartel just randomly deciding to call itself the US Marines for no apparent reason, and then getting all pissy when actual marines disagree.
Not just here. There's no real shortage. Yet. It's all artificial to keep people working hard in mostly bullshit jobs out of desperation not to starve. All so some billionaire fucks can feel like their money dicks are big.
I love when people call the USA the richest country in the world. That's an absolute joke. America has a whopping 31% of the entire WORLDS debt. Should people still get free meals who don't have access to food? Yes. Are we the richest country in the world. Fuck no. The fact that you think that means that the extravagant facade this country displays about their riches is effective and can fool a lot of people.
The debt is leveraged against their wealth (aka GDP). It'll be like comparing a guy with a 300k house and a guy with 3mil house, both put down 20% for their mortgage. Is the 3mil house guy poorer because he has higher debt? No.
Sure the 300k house guy has less debt but that's because the guy with 3mil house can afford to pay off the mortgage payments for their giant loan. Until they go bankrupt and can't pay back their loan or sell their house they are still wealthier.
I take it you haven't read the other response to your thread that sums it up pretty well. Governmental debt does not affect how much money is available in the country to use for stuff. In fact 78% of the government's debt is to US citizens. Another large chunk of it is money that is owed from one government agency to another, usually in the forms of investing surplus funds. So most US debt is owed to the US. Of the remaining chunk that is owed outside of the country, it honestly does not affect what is available to spend. There is no world organization that can tell the government they aren't allowed to spend money on X program because we owe Y country some money.
So we end up with a small percentage of the world's largest GDP being owed to foreign organizations to whom our obligation to repay is not set in stone. This means that the tax revenue (both current and potential from tax increases) is enough that we could easily pay for almost any possible project the government wants to undertake, if it had the political will to just make it so. There is more capital, and more money changing hands in the US than any other country, therefore, it is the richest country in the world.
Agreed (with the point of your sarcasm).
As an actively-serving member in the US armed forces, we should absolutely be held strongly accountable for our actions. Personally, I hate "veteran" discounts and hearing "thank you for your service." I joined because of what I believe in what this country is supposed to stand for and I really hope we can get there someday.
This woman may have been a veteran but she missed the point. We swore an oath to the constitution not to a person. I'm truly disturbed that any current or former veteran could look at what Trump has done to this country and support him.
Oh please, like they actually believe in free meals for vets. They probably just think real hard about buying a vet a free meal without ever actually doing it.
On a serious note here. I don't understand this defence that she was a vet, so what? Surely that should mean she would be held to a higher attitude? Let me put it this way
In the UK if you're a vet you have to avoid any confrontation because you're trained. so if a vet in the UK hits someone they'll be done under gbh not assault charges. There's a few times I've had to lay someone out for a military friend coz the outcome for them would be 10 times worse.
Oswald got off three rounds with an old Italian bolt action rifle in only six seconds and scored two hits, including a head shot! Do any of you people know where these individuals learned to shoot?
Nidal Hassan was a Major in the US Army, actively serving at the time. I had friends that were there during the attack, and I mobilized out of hood twice. My first mobilization, we had to use the alternate premises because even years later, the building shot up was still closed due to the investigation
Edit to clarify that he was actively serving at the time, not still serving now
You just named a bunch of people who did mass murders. Ashli crawled through a window. She did not kill anyone, she did not threaten anyone, and she did not hurt anyone. You have no right to tie her to any of these people.
Nobody's saying she mass murdered anyone. Just that being a vet doesn't make her a saint.
The post is right that she didn't deserve to die. There is a reasonable expectation, though, that if you break into the Capitol, you might get shot, even if you're unarmed.
Yet a free ride for all the BLM protests because it fit the agenda. It was a bunch of adult diaper wearing cry babies using the victims card just so they can get an extra TV they don't need, or destroy black owned businesses that backed them in their movement. Nobody cares anymore and it should be disturbing that this is the path America has chosen to go with. It's a good thing for China, as a house divided makes it easier to take everything over.
The therapist didn't want to help, they wanted to live the experiences vicariously through his stories so they'd ask for details they shouldn't have.
That's what therapy is – you talk in great detail about whatever bothers you so that your therapist can get a better understanding of your perspective, and then they suggest the scientifically-proven coping mechanisms that are most likely to work for you. They usually start with behavioral suggestions like taking deep breaths while counting to 10. Then if that's not enough, they'll start putting you on medications until they figure out what does.
There is no hypnotic combination of words that a therapist can say to take away all your mental anguish. If you go into therapy unwilling or unable to talk in great detail about whatever landed you there, then it will always feel like they're just winding you up and throwing pills at you. It's scary and you end up reliving the worst parts of your life, but it's a necessary step in processing things and moving forward.
Yeah I don't think you understand how much the VA avoids the first prt and jumps straight into meds. And they do a terrible job of not mixing prescriptions that interact with each other. I've had too many friends go for help, get no help, get medicated, have shit side effects from the meds without support. Not a good combo.
You're right – I have no experience with the VA. My comment was a response to the notion that a therapist asking for details is unnecessary or harmful, when it's actually a standard part of the job. If we're ever going to normalize mental health treatment, we have to stop acting like therapists are assholes for wanting to talk about things.
We can also acknowledge that therapists are assholes when they aren't good at their job. If you're going to ask for details, you have to understand how to help the patient understand the details and how to package them back up in a healthy way. Just asking for details for the sake of details without helping understand and cope, is not effective. Don't really need a therapist to expose those thoughts, they're there already. Need them to help work through things.
The VA is notorious for medicating and over medicating, without actually providing therapy.
We can also acknowledge that therapists are assholes when they aren't good at their job. If you're going to ask for details, you have to understand how to help the patient understand the details and how to package them back up in a healthy way. Just asking for details for the sake of details without helping understand and cope, is not effective. Don't really need a therapist to expose those thoughts, they're there already. Need them to help work through things.
Agreed, and I'm not at all saying that bad therapists don't exist – I've had a few myself.
The VA is notorious for medicating and over medicating, without actually providing therapy.
This is also true, and is the distinction I was ultimately trying to make. I didn't want anyone to read complaints about the VA's version of therapy and assume that's how it is for everyone who seeks help.
Thats because our military is disproportionately made up of the poor and minorities that we use as "cannon fodder" as needed. They are seen as more "disposable" than others.
Once they make it home, we don't have much use for them, especially if they are now burdened with lingering physical and mental health issues.
We need to do better by our veterans. That said, every adult needs to be accountable for their own actions. Sadly, the rioters from yesterday were responsible for their actions but they were also lied to by their leaders for their own personal profit and power.
Had it not been for this and the encouragement to march to the capitol by the president yesterday, Ms. Babbit might still be alive today. Sad.
Gunnery Sergeant Hartman: [referring to Lee Harvey Oswald and mass murderer Charles Whitman] Do any of you people know where these individuals learned how to shoot? [Private Joker raises his hand.] Gunnery Sergeant Hartman: Private Joker? Private Joker: Sir, in the Marines, sir! Gunnery Sergeant Hartman: In the Marines! Outstanding! Those individuals showed what one motivated Marine and his rifle can do! And before you ladies leave my island, you will all be able to do the same thing!
Charles Whitman was his name, and he had a brain tumor. He had tried for about a year to be treated for personality changes that included fits of rage, confusion and violent impulses, none of which he had prior. His is a far more tragic story, because he was actively trying to avoid the very kind of thing he wound up doing. Mcveigh was just a whiny bitch.
Can't speak for Castle, but while we're here discussing domestic terrorism, there isn't much coincidence to seeing McVeigh's name. He blew up a federal building in 1995, killing more than 150 men, women, and children.
If anyone here ever has to go to Oklahoma City for any reason I would encourage you to go to the Oklahoma City National Memorial & Museum. Be forewarned that it is a pretty heavy place, and a stern reminder of what happens when we let white nationalism fester in our country without checking it.
Super heavy stuff, couldn’t help but shed some tears for the senseless act of terror carried out against innocent people. The worst for me was seeing the empty chairs for the young children.
Not an American so didn't hear/read about it... until today. I recognized that name but I thought the Castle just used a fictional one in their episode.
Horrible. I almost wonder if I was better off not knowing.
Fair point - it's not something that would be studied outside the US. As the deadliest act of domestic terrorism in U.S. history it's something most Americans know about, and if old enough, remember.
Tbh I wouldn't be surprised at all if a very significant amount of americans who weren't alive then aren't familiar. Extremely little US history post ww2 was taught in schools IME. Maybe glossed over at best.
There's a tremendous amount of people who don't even know a lot of details about 9/11 or the origins of wars we are still involved with etc.
While this isn’t something I would travel countries to visit, I used to live in the area and the memorial is very beautiful. Theres a few images on the national park site. The original street that the Murrah building was located on has been turned into a memorial pond. The building itself has been replaced by 168 glass chairs, symbolizing those that lost their lives. In addition, a tree located across the street, dubbed the survivor tree, is still standing.
Despite the tragedy that occurred, I’m so thankful of the memorial in giving it a new life.
Yeah. I was a kid. I don't remember the year. McVeigh and an accomplice filled a rental truck full of ammonia and blew the front off the Oklahoma city federal building. It was terrifying.
168 in total. There was a daycare in the building for the people who worked there, and why kids died as well. McVeigh denies knowing about the daycare, I honestly think that makes it worse.
He was executed in June 2001, about 6 years after the bombing. It was big news, I remember I was at my grandma's house when it (the execution) happened. Not the only date in that year I remember exactly where I was...
I watched the coverage of the execution live that day from Europe and was sickened by it. Added the last argument that capital punishment is inhuman and that I oppose it vigorously
I also oppose capital punishment. It's not only inhumane, it doesn't even serve as a proper punishment. The entire process leading up to it is psychologically fucked so that if someone is determined to be innocent (or, at least not "guilty enough" to be executed) is traumatized for life. And for what? They're dead, peaceful in the grave, no longer needing to deal with the consequences of their actions? Hell, for a lot of the people most likely to commit such heinous crimes, that's an attraction. Timothy McVeigh got what he wanted.
It's just a way to save money compared to keeping someone for a life sentence. Capitalism at its finest.
I did a research paper in highschool about the death penalty and found that it's actually more expensive to execute them because 1. Death row is just more expensive than general population and 2. Tax payers end up paying for god knows how many appeals, etc. Idk about nowadays but 20 years ago, it was much cheaper to hand out a life sentence.
Now that's interesting! I would think food and security for 40-80 years would add up to more than 6 years of death row (in the case of McVeigh, and I'm not sure he was DR the entire time but will say he was because I'm just napkinning anyway) food and security does.
You would think that life in prison would cost more but here's the thing - all death penalty cases must go all the way to the Supreme Court if the prisoner does not waive their right to trial. And most of them are indigent so the government is paying for both the prosecution AND the defense (if it's not pro bono). Then on top of that, it's not a straight line to the top, an appeal drops the case down a step or two and things restart from there. It is very expensive and long process to execute someone, as it should be, not that I support the DP. IANAL so maybe I have some details wrong and someone who knows more can correct me.
Ironically, the only reason McVeigh was only on death row for 6 years is because he waived his rights and asked for a speedy execution.
I was a high school junior. I remember clearly the image of a firefighter taking a baby from the wreckage (she didn't survive). It was in the newspaper and aired on the nightly news and broke my heart. One of the first times that I really processed how evil some humans can be.
Babbitt, according to published reports, was part of a mob that, after being incited by President Trump’s fraudulent claims of a stolen election, overran barricades and stormed Congress as lawmakers were debating the counting of electoral college votes to confirm President-elect Joe Biden’s election.
Eric Rudolph, the Atlanta Olympic bomber (as well as several abortion clinics) was too. Being a veteran doesn't make you immune to mental health issues, or just being ignorant or violent, or all of the above ffs. Veterans are to be honored, but not excused, and should be treated just like the general populous when they do something abhorrent.
Yeah I don't get the mental gymnastics they need to consolidate this with the fact that their Savior regularly shits on war heroes and thinks they are suckers and losers.
Nowhere does the definition of the word "terrorism" require someone to kill someone else. Intimidation can make you a terrorist, it's why "terroristic threats" are a thing.
But yeah sure whatever go ahead and make your own definitions that's not super disingenuous or anything
Timothy McVeigh detonated a fertilizer bomb that killed hundreds of people. She was crawling through a fucking window. If you can't see the difference, then you are all terrorist by definition.
Fuck off commie Nazi, that's exactly what you want to believe. You're never going to amount to anything but a failed abortion slithering out of the sad metal bucket.
Commie nazi? Wow, how will I ever respond to such an intellectual titan? You folks are so far gone it would be hilarious if it wasn’t so sad. I hope your brain worms get better soon.
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u/peepeeonmydoodoo Jan 07 '21
Timothy Mcveigh was also a veteran...