r/PoliticalCompassMemes • u/Crimson_GQ - Lib-Center • 15h ago
Agenda Post "they can switch to android"
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u/Horrorifying - Lib-Right 15h ago
Not so sure about the market, but the iphone thing is bunk. They would cost in the 2500 range, I believe. That article is speculating about something else, and was written in 2018.
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u/TheTardisPizza - Lib-Right 15h ago
That is assuming that they maintain the extreme mark up they currently enjoy which the consumer market would never bear.
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u/dynorphin - Lib-Center 12h ago
This is the secret recipe.
Making things overseas with cheap labor in lax regulatory environments might make certain basic products more affordable for consumers (fast fashion etc), but the primary reason to offshore is to make it cheaper for companies so they can return more profits to their investors.
When was the last time you heard a company offshore jobs and then cut prices?
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u/TheTardisPizza - Lib-Right 12h ago
Yup. Cost of manufacture is disconected from MSRP for lots of thing. Companies sell products for what the market will bear.
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u/Horrorifying - Lib-Right 15h ago
Price of unit increase is actually fairly low, unless you're also importing all the material from China as well.
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u/TigerBasket - Centrist 15h ago
The price of setting up a new factory from scratch would be astronomical though. Not to mention the market for said iphones would shrink by 4 sizes. The chinese buy iphones too. Why should Apple be forced by the government to leave a continent? Isn't this the party of small government?
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u/Horrorifying - Lib-Right 14h ago
You can have more than 1 factory location.
But even if we're just talking tariffs, 30k isn't even in the ballpark. People are dragging this headline up like it somehow relates to Trump when it doesn't.
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u/TigerBasket - Centrist 14h ago
You can have more than 1 factory location. Which means that making more factories will be very expensive too. Even in the medium term, consumers will have to eat that cost. What company has ever tried to have less profits. Trump has upended a system that has worked to a staggering degree because of his own ego. He rules like a Dictator because he isn't strong enough to rule like a President, and he's taking us to hell in a hand basket with him.
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u/Horrorifying - Lib-Right 14h ago
This... has nothing to do with anything being discussed here. I was talking about the article.
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u/Rocknrollclwn - Lib-Right 15h ago
Which really isn't unreasonable for what it is. I remember as a kid shitty laptops that were barely more than a Microsoft word machine cost about that much when they were new. It's probably a pipe dream but if we can get right to repair, and American iPhones maybe people would keep them for more than a year. Maybe the high end phone market would be like the used car market where the wealthiest would buy new and hold for 2-5 years then sell used. The middle class would buy mid tier new or high end used, then the lower class would buy low tier new or mid tier used.
The industry would make less profit on new sales but could make a decent bit on the back end selling genuine replacement parts, especially if they designed parts to serve for multiple years and models, kinda how the car market used to be before they started pushing for non user serviceable.
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u/Middle-Art1656 - Lib-Center 13h ago
Which really isn't unreasonable for what it is.
It would be much more expensive IF the company compensated for higher labor costs to by charging significantly more to maintain their profits.
But wait a second, isn't that what leftists have been screaming about for decades? Corporations making record profits at the expense of their work force and the middle class by sending jobs to Asia where working conditions are worse and people are paid pennies? I'm getting whiplash by how much people have flipped on this issue.
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u/Crimson_GQ - Lib-Center 15h ago
article for anyone who wants to read: https://www.forbes.com/sites/quora/2018/01/17/how-much-would-an-iphone-cost-if-apple-were-forced-to-make-it-in-america/
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u/RyanLJacobsen - Right 14h ago
This is the equivalent to the guy that wanted to make a chicken sandwich from scratch and spent $1,500 to do it.
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u/Raven-INTJ - Right 11h ago
Fun fact, when I moved out of my parents’ home, my first plate of homemade spaghetti cost more than $100.
It’s gotten better since then. I already own my own pot and colander now
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u/Horrorifying - Lib-Right 15h ago
Even in the article this is talking about mostly costs associated with building an entire sector here in the US and training new employees from scratch.
It has next to nothing to do with tariffs, and again, was written in 2018. Even the harshest estimates put it at around 2000 in 2025.
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u/martybobbins94 - Lib-Center 15h ago
the way tariffs work, the parts that can be done most cheaply in the US when taking into account duties are the ones that get moved here.
Obviously it is insane to think we could produce them here for reasonable prices without massive regulatory changes and elimination of worker safety and collective bargaining laws.
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u/Aggravating_Bell_426 - Auth-Right 14h ago
Considering that the actual production cost of an iPhone is under $500, I'd like to know where they get that $30,000 dollar number.
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u/kaytin911 - Lib-Right 15h ago
It's scary how many people read complete bullshit and don't even think about it.
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u/Middle-Art1656 - Lib-Center 13h ago
I don't think that figure is accurate. Most of the cost of smartphones like the iPhone is profit for the company that owns the product. Huuuuge margins. The rest is labor. Material is a tiny percentage of the cost.
There have been loads of other people who have done the calculations and estimates that have come to much less scary figures. Like 30% higher.
Funny though that the people talking about this are basically complaining that it's more expensive to build things with workforces that aren't paid pennies in slave-like conditions. Is that a position you really want to have? The cost of more expensive labor could easily be eaten by companies like Apple. Ooops, now the leftists are lamenting fair wages for US workers and lower corporate profits because Trump bad.
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u/Fr05t_B1t - Centrist 15h ago
Who’s the retard? Me or OP cause the bottom-left magajack should be reacting to top-left image and top-right magajack should be reacting to bottom-right image…
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u/treesixniner - Right 15h ago
If your product depends on cheap and abusive labor to be sold at over a thousand dollars with no charging brick, or else it will cost $30,000 your entire business deserves to fail. Sorry you won’t be getting your 12,000,000 dollar Christmas bonus.
Products made in China or other foreign nations are no longer cheap. These foreign countries have progressively and exponentially increased the price of their exports despite them still using cheap labor. This is also why a large majority of American corporations with overseas manufacturing have shown more and more earnings every year despite making no significant changes to their product. They are to a large degree unnecessarily increasing their sales price of goods.
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u/TigerBasket - Centrist 15h ago
I see we have reached the communist phase of we should intentionally make businesses fail if we dislike them.
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u/Character-Bed-641 - Auth-Center 14h ago
I think some nationalizing would be in order from time to time
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u/treesixniner - Right 14h ago
No, it’s just a bad business model. It’s on them to make a good product at a price consumers are willing to pay. If they can’t it’s on them.
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u/TigerBasket - Centrist 14h ago
They did do that. Until the President decided fuck up the world economy.
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u/treesixniner - Right 14h ago
This is why CEO’s get paid the big bucks. To figure out how to make the most money possible for the company. The government makes the rules, if apple is smart, they’ll figure it out.
The stock market isn’t the world economy. It’s all numbers of figurative speculation of what if’s and will be’s. Tired of people being against big corporations but the moment orange man does something that undoubtedly negatively impacts the top 1% they start crying.
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u/Simp_Master007 - Right 15h ago
Don’t you libtards know you can just connect two plastic cups with a string and talk into them? You dont need the newest iPhone.
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u/Picholasido_o - Lib-Right 7h ago
Maybe we can start having decent phones made here instead then? But no, the average Apple user can't work even the most basic of computers so that won't happen
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u/Running-Engine - Auth-Center 15h ago
I'm pretty sure rich people are crashing the market in response to what Trump is doing
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u/Constant-Listen834 - Lib-Center 15h ago
Rich people are moving their money out of the US stock market and into other markets. Bonds/treasuries/etc in preparation for a recession.
They will be fine. Us poors with 401Ks are cooked
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u/Character-Bed-641 - Auth-Center 14h ago
if you have a 401k with appreciable value you're not poor.
the actual poors might do pretty good since they currently own nothing and stand to gain.
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u/Constant-Listen834 - Lib-Center 14h ago
You realize the poors just got a 30% sales tax (tariff) put on everything they buy? How are they going to afford that?
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u/Character-Bed-641 - Auth-Center 14h ago
they find a way.as it always has been since the first day and until the last.
where does this 30% number come from?
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u/Constant-Listen834 - Lib-Center 13h ago
A lot of the tariffs are in the 30% range right? Tariff is just another word for import tax.
Normally the “find a way” is when they revolt….thats how its been all through history
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u/treesixniner - Right 15h ago
The 1% are the ones who have the most to lose from these tariffs. It goes against the status quo of what has been for the last 30-40 years. American middle class and even the middle class of these foreign countries have the most to gain
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u/Constant-Listen834 - Lib-Center 15h ago
You have it completely backwards.
The 1% are not impacted. They easily move money around to treasuries or other countries. They will buy up all the foreclosed homes and stocks that are cheap. They can just lay off their middle class workers as needed and if they go bankrupt the gov will bail them out. Same as 2008
The middle class are the ones who lose their jobs / savings / house in this scenario. Also the tariffs are a sales tax. Poor people spend like 50-90% of their income on things, meaning now those poor people are facing a massive tax increase. Rich only spend 1% of their money on food etc. so the tax doesn’t impact them.
Classic rich get richer and poor get poorer scenario
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u/treesixniner - Right 14h ago
The 1% are of course the most impacted by these tariffs. They are the ones who have business’s and deals for manufacturing within these foreign countries. They are the ones who own the stocks of these companies and are shorting it because it brings attention to the media in an effort to put pressure on the current administration to remove these tariffs.
The middle class are living paycheck to paycheck yes. Will they get hurt? Yes, but for the short term. We also know the US is in a trade deficit. Meaning more imports than exports. It has been like this for the past 30-40 years. Why is this the case? Because foreign nations have tariffs and or policies/requirements for American goods to be sold in their countries which drive up the price of the goods. However the US doesn’t. Through the use of cheap labor they can undercut American businesses and sell to Americans at a lower cost on an unfair playing field. Which drives American business overseas. Hence why the American middle class has already been suffering long before Trumps tariffs.
Over the years, these foreign countries have become reliant on American consumerism. We put tariffs to discourage Americans from buying their product, and they begin to bleed. And already, there are 50 countries who are willing to negotiate a trade deal. So now there are two probable outcomes:
They reduce or remove their tariffs on American goods. This allows for American goods to be more competitive overseas. Manufacturing can stay in the US, jobs increase, and Americans get paid decent wages following American labor laws. Or!
They stay stubborn and impose retaliatory tariffs on the US. (This is unlikely especially if they export heavily to the US) So then we bring the manufacturing of that good or service to the US, creating jobs with American wages.
It will be stated: “If products are made in America, it’ll be more expensive!”
It can be stated if manufacturing moves to the US automation and ai can bring down the cost of goods to almost identical levels of goods manufactured overseas. It can also be stated if someone is being paid an American wage (especially within the industrial manufacturing sector), they can afford to pay for those goods.
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u/Constant-Listen834 - Lib-Center 13h ago edited 13h ago
Your whole theory relies on one premise
manufacturing moves to the US
But these tariffs trump imposed just made the cost of actually manufacturing things in the US atleast 30% higher. Now that there’s a 30% tax on steel and other manufacturing inputs, our manufacturing sector is about to get decimated. These companies will absolutely go under, and no country is going to move manufacturing here with that increased cost. Instead, countries can simply get around the tariffs by trading with eachother instead of the USA.
The middle class just got a 30-50% sales tax put on them. Even if moving manufacting here with tariffs works, it will take 20+ years. The middle class will revolt and trump will be out in 3.5 years and replaced by a democrat that will immediately remove the tariffs.
All that I see happening is that our economy tanks and we lose allies. Our economy tanking will lead to a worsening debt crisis and a poorer middle class. Now other countries are boycotting American products too. It doesn’t matter if we manufacture in America if nobody is buying our stuff.
Believe me I want manufacting in this country. All they had to do was INVEST in our manufacturing (like the chips act did, which trump removed for some reason). It’s fucking easy. Put money into manufacturing. Strike a deal, build factories in America. That is the solution not putting a 30-50% tax on everything lol
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u/treesixniner - Right 13h ago
Manufacturing has already moved to the US.
Taiwan semiconductors, Honda, Hyundai Steel, have committed recently to moving to the US, and several other automotive manufacturers are considering moving here.
Explain how there is a 30% cost increase to manufacture in the US? Steel, aluminum, and copper? If you’re talking about them, you’re taking about Canada, Brazil, Mexico, and a few other countries. They are the ones who rely on the US to purchase from them. We have the leverage in this case because if we don’t buy from them, their steel industry falls apart and we can purchase from Other countries that are willing to play ball with the US.
I also don’t know where you got a 30-50% sales tax from. Unless you’re talking about an increase of the price of goods brought down on customers because of these tariffs.
The middle class were supposed to revolt in 2008. This is short term pain for long term gain for the middle class. Like I said before, the 1% will suffer the most, the countries with tariffs on the US will suffer second, and the American middle class stands to gain the most.
It’s been 30-40 years of the same economic policies that have led to income inequality and the shrinking of the American middle class. But the moment the stock dips because of tariffs being used as a bargaining chip that will hurt the middle class temporarily to heal the years of abuse from corrupt politicians and greedy corporations, normies cry for revolt.
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u/Constant-Listen834 - Lib-Center 13h ago edited 13h ago
I also don’t know where you got a 30-50% sales tax from. Unless you’re talking about an increase of the price of goods brought down on customers because of these tariffs.
Tariffs are literally a sales tax.
Taiwan semiconductors, Honda, Hyundai Steel, have committed recently to moving to the US, and several other automotive manufacturers are considering moving here.
Yes this was done before the retarded tariffs. None of this will happen if we tank the economy. If we tank the economy none of these companies will have the funds to open up in the USA.
Keeping a good economy is what brings manufacturing back here. Tanking the economy does the opposite
Explain how there is a 30% cost increase to manufacture in the US? Steel, aluminum, and copper? If you’re talking about them, you’re taking about Canada, Brazil, Mexico, and a few other countries. They are the ones who rely on the US to purchase from them. We have the leverage in this case because if we don’t buy from them, their steel industry falls apart and we can purchase from Other countries that are willing to play ball with the US.
We tariffed EVERYONE. we now have no leverage to buy elsewhere. Meanwhile other countries can just trade with eachother to get around our tariffs. And guess what happens if one countries steel industry falls apart? Steel supply goes down and prices skyrocket.
There is not a way this works out for us. We are fucked
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u/kaytin911 - Lib-Right 15h ago
Maybe not the foreign countries but definitely the domestic middle class benefits.
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u/WarrenBuffe - Centrist 2h ago
Even gold bar wouldn’t cost that match (170g gold will cost around 18000 USD)
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u/Outside-Bed5268 - Centrist 1h ago
iPhones made fully in the U.S. could cost $30,000
Like I believe that. And even if that is true, I feel like that says more about Apple and how much they cut costs, to the point where they can sell an iPhone for only hundreds of dollars.
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u/Constant-Listen834 - Lib-Center 15h ago
No he’s totally crashing the market on purpose!!! He meant to crash it!! All part of his genius plan!
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u/Character-Bed-641 - Auth-Center 14h ago
can I order a housing crash next? I want to actually own a house some day
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u/Constant-Listen834 - Lib-Center 14h ago
Nope. Instead we are causing inflation with tariffs, meaning housing goes up faster and you get laid off.
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u/My_Cringy_Video - Lib-Left 15h ago
I’m still on a rotary phone, makes dialing the gambling hotline more retro