r/Scotland • u/ewenmax DialMforMurdo • Apr 25 '24
Megathread It's over. Scotland's power-sharing deal ends. Scotland's coalition government collapses as SNP and Greens end deal
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cz5dy15grjnt127
Apr 25 '24
Scottish Greens co-leader Lorna Slater has just confirmed the end of the Bute House agreement and accused the SNP of "selling out future generations".
She said: “This is an act of political cowardice by the SNP, who are selling out future generations to appease the most reactionary forces in the country.
"They have broken the bonds of trust with members of both parties who have twice chosen the co-operation agreement and climate action over chaos, culture wars and division. They have betrayed the electorate."
She said that the first minister ended the agreement in "such a weak and thoroughly hopeless way" which "signalled that when it comes to political co-operation, he can no longer be trusted."
In a lengthy statement marking the end of the power-sharing agreement between the SNP and Scottish Greens, Lorna Slater goes on to say that the Scottish Greens were due to vote on the co-operation agreement in the coming weeks.
However, she says they will no longer have the opportunity because of "the most reactionary and backwards-looking forces within the First Minister’s party" which "forced him to do the opposite of what he himself had said was in Scotland’s best interests".
She adds: "If they can’t stand up to members of their own party, how can anyone expect them to stand up to the UK government at Westminster and defend the interests of Scotland?"
Slater says the Scottish Greens were "let down by the SNP time and time again" on a variety of issues including oil and gas targets and council tax.
She ends the statement by urging SNP members who cared about the climate, trans rights and independence to consider whether they were in the right party.
Can't say I disagree with much, or any, of that.
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u/ChauvinistPenguin Apr 25 '24
A relevant comment I left on r/unitedkingdom thread;
'The SNP is ideologically akin to a wheel, with the hub ('primary' ideology) being Scottish independence. The spokes represent members who reside in the various traditional political positions, e.g. socialist, liberal etc.
Within the party membership exist 'secondary' belief systems, which are diametrically opposed. The friction generated by this opposition was inevitable, especially with the primary goal seeming more like a pipe dream as time goes on.
This is why the SNP have banged the drum of independence for so long - it's the only thing keeping them going. Without strong leadership, the independence movement could splinter and we could see multiple parties emerge.
This wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing for those who support Scottish independence. Yes, it means splitting the vote but it also means the idea of independence could be further embedded in mainstream politics, with viable alternatives to unionist parties across a wider range of ideologies.
You could argue this has already started with the formation of Alba and the Greens backing independence. It's certainly going to be an interesting few years.'
I'm a unionist but have a few family members/ friends who have always voted SNP for Westminster and Green for Holyrood. I suspect they may now vote Green/ Green.
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Apr 25 '24
I'm a unionist but have a few family members/ friends who have always voted SNP for Westminster and Green for Holyrood. I suspect they may now vote Green/ Green.
It'll be interesting to see the direction. I've long had the view that the second vote at Holyrood elections tells us more about who people want to vote for.
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u/ChauvinistPenguin Apr 25 '24
I agree and that's how they've expressed it - the SNP have always been a means to an end for them.
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u/superduperuser101 Apr 25 '24
I've long had the view that the second vote at Holyrood elections tells us more about who people want to vote for.
I think there is a lot in that. FPTP & tradition of single party govs motivates people do vote based on what they dislike, rather than what they want.
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u/traitoro Apr 25 '24
Independence aaannnnddd... Independence. The second vote is because voting double SNP is counter productive to the aim of having a majority of MSPs in parliament that support independence.
I'll ask the question, how would the Green party be performing if they had the exact same people and policies but they didn't support independence?
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u/uggyy Apr 25 '24
Fair representation.
Without a very strong leadership the party starts to show cracks and as you say the next few years could be interesting, especially when they lose politicians.
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u/ieya404 Apr 25 '24
Interesting way the headline's phrased; I don't think it's entirely accurate. The SNP and Greens didn't end the deal, Humza Yousaf did. The Greens never got the time to vote on it, and as far as I've seen the SNP weren't consulted either.
Curious politics - rather than letting your coalition deal come to a natural conclusion, choose to end it in a way that you know (or damn well ought to know) will infuriate the other party.
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u/Speccy97 Apr 25 '24
What an absolute shit show. I've got no idea who I'm voting for next election not voting snp that's for sure
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u/MukwiththeBuck Apr 25 '24
Honsetly it tells me the SNP was practically a one women show when Nicola was leader, it's astounding how many bad decisions have been made this past year lmao .
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u/RestaurantAntique497 Apr 25 '24
Coming from an SNP member until 2019, plenty bad decisions were made under Sturgeon.
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u/heavyhorse_ No affiliation Apr 25 '24
And not many decisions were made to begin with, under Sturgeon everything was kicked into the long grass and glossed over with PR stunts and headline grabbing gimmicks. I think what we've been seeing with the SNP over the last year is a combination of an incompetent leader having to deal with a mess left by his predecessor
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u/ancientestKnollys Apr 25 '24
And before Sturgeon it was a one man show as well. It has a tendency to be dominated by leaders.
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u/scientist153 Apr 25 '24
at least the members got a say pre-2014 and Scotland was definitely heading forwards compared to the destruction of the SNP and Greens being in power. It’s all been orchestrated, I was SNP for 30yrs back when it used to be an Independence party, it’s Alba party for me now, they’re the Only Independence party we have now 🏴
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u/BarrettRTS Apr 25 '24
Found out my local SNP MP wanted stricter controls on abortion. I'll probably be voting green next election.
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u/TheBuoyancyOfWater Apr 25 '24
Greens?
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u/AsparagusOdd8894 Apr 25 '24
It feels like the greens will win more votes because of this, they have made a stand so to speak.
I'm wondering how much bad press we will see over the coming days because of it.
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u/Necronomicommunist Apr 25 '24
They'll probably save most of the bad press for a month or so before the election. Bring out the auld accusations of cronyism, bullying, antisemitism, money scandals.
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u/BedroomTiger Apr 25 '24
Well, the Green have been on the up and up, some wobbles, but we gained ground, got legislation passed, and while it was a bit of a shitshow, we do our best, and if you dont like a leader or policy, we can fire them.
FYI the Greens in westminster arent us.
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Apr 25 '24 edited Apr 25 '24
I'm just spoiling my paper or just rubbering it entirely. Utterly scunnered with SNP but can't bring myself to vote labour again after 20 odd years. The Tories are of course vermin and no one cares about the Lib Dems.
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u/Necronomicommunist Apr 25 '24
I'm just spoiling my paper or just rubbing it entirely.
Yeah that'll really stick it to them.
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u/TheLatmanBaby Apr 25 '24
Spoiling your paper is a bit silly.
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u/superduperuser101 Apr 25 '24
Disagree. You are still engaging in the process, and conducting a form of protest.
My personal pet hate is people not voting and then complaining. If you haven't engaged with the process it isn't reasonable to complain. I honestly put those who spoil their paper in the same bracket as those who put their mark down properly. Both at least turned up.
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u/Mackerel_Skies Apr 25 '24 edited Apr 25 '24
It definitely is a vote. Where I live it'll be the Tory candidate who wins, whoever I vote for. And I don't want to just give my vote to any of the other parties (Greens don't bother here) so I will spoil my paper. It gets counted. Enough voters spoil their papers for it to be significant enough to register.
Edit: And I'd wager it's a more considered vote than of those who vote for a party as though it's their local football team.
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Apr 25 '24
It's marginally better than not voting at all. I can't justify voting for any of the parties for varying reasons either. Unless the SNP magically decide to stop picking stupid hills to die on at both national and local level.
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u/BedroomTiger Apr 25 '24
When why bother to even turn up
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Apr 25 '24
Because spoiled ballots are accounted for and have to be declared by the returning officer. This does allow for the potentially hilarious scenario of say, Spoiled Ballots adding up to more than say Reform UK, or the Lib Dems in a constituency.
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u/BedroomTiger Apr 25 '24
Or you could just vote for Count Binface, way funnier.
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Apr 25 '24
If he ever stands for election up here, I would absolutely vote for him.
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u/ieya404 Apr 25 '24
Can anyone think of something Yousaf could've done which would be more politically enjoyable for Labour, the Tories, and the Lib Dems, than precipitate a vote of no confidence in himself that results in him barely surviving, saved by the casting vote of the Presiding Officer, and even then only after having to rely on Ash Regan?
If he actually went, the SNP could at least get a fresh start with a new leader, who might get some sort of political honeymoon period.
As it is, the SNP are stuck with a leader who has demonstrated shonky political judgement time and time again and who's barely clinging on to power.
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u/Documental38 Apr 25 '24
It is a bit funny that this government has managed to implode before Westminster
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u/Optimaldeath Apr 25 '24
Depends on how you perceive an implosion because frankly the Westminster 'government' has been zombiefied since 2016.
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Apr 25 '24
I disagree, only because they’ve won an election since then. I think when Sunak won by default after Truss dug the tories grave in 2022 is the definitive point of no return.
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u/ExpletiveDeletedYou Apr 25 '24
Frustrating that we've had to ensure almost 2 years of zombie government but hopefully will be over soon
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u/PurahsHero Apr 25 '24
Nah. Westminster has just been on life support since Johnson got forced out. Personally, I'd rather it implode and bring new elections rather than carry on in its current state.
Fingers crossed that the Tories' expected drubbing in the local elections in England finally forces Sunak's hand and call the damn thing.
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u/Hamsterminator2 Apr 25 '24
Westminster has been in a state of implosion so long it's essentially a super massive black hole at this point.
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u/Vasquerade Apr 25 '24
Why is it funny that a coalition government has collapsed before a government that has the largest single party majority since Blair? Surely that's exactly what we would expect?
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u/zellisgoatbond act yer age, not yer shoe size Apr 25 '24
FMQs has looked a bit embarrassing today - Humza Yousaf's just been repeating soundbites over and over without really giving any substance in that. He seems to have got this memo saying if he comes across all angry and shouty he'll seem strong and in charge, but he's just looking a bit desperate and tone-deaf.
It's as if he doesn't realise that he's got a minority now, and as a minority he'll need to play nice with other people. He's throwing away any leverage he once had, and his routes to actually get anything done are shrinking rapidly. In effect we've lost half of one term at Holyrood to the SNP's internal turmoil, and we look set to lose the other half because they're now taking that turmoil out on other people.
If the SNP want to actually get anything done for the people of Scotland, that will take contrition, not stubbornness. If Humza Yousaf wants to continue his party's legislative agenda, that will take compromise, not relentless peacocking. And if he can't do that, he needs to get out sooner rather than later.
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Apr 25 '24
[deleted]
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u/LurkerInSpace Apr 25 '24
Labour probably need to back it; it would basically cede unionist votes to the Tories otherwise.
Greens should back it unless they can squeeze a face-saving concession from the FM - raises the question of why they exist if they can't make a stand even in these circumstances.
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u/BedroomTiger Apr 25 '24
Because then we look petty and the indy comunity generally wont forgive us.
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u/GuyLookingForPorn Apr 25 '24
I doubt the Greens will vote against the SNP, but it does feel a little hypocritical not to given they pretty much explicitly stated that they do not have confidence in the SNP government today.
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u/ieya404 Apr 25 '24
The beauty is that they're not voting against the SNP. They're voting against Yousaf, personally. The guy who just knifed them.
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u/BedroomTiger Apr 25 '24
To be fair, stopping people from being paid isnt a vote winner, that includes teachers who the same ones tell this generation climate change is our ww2. (No seriously i was told that).
But if Humza goes what horror of bible thumping maniac replaces him?
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u/Gingerbeardyboy Apr 25 '24
I know the SNP can technically lead a minority government but it would be absolutely hilarious if this move resulted in a holyrood election out of absolutely nowhere before a Westminster election that's been predicted/hoped for every month for the past 2 years
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u/jrizzle86 Apr 25 '24
The SNP's fall is truly done
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u/FleetingBeacon Apr 25 '24
They'll only fall for as long as we're actually given alternatives.
My last labour candidate gave up trying to get in and joined the Scottish Family party.
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u/LurkerInSpace Apr 25 '24 edited Apr 25 '24
Do we reckon this is true, or is it (just) shit-stirring?
Murdo Fraser:
So, tomorrow will see @HumzaYousaf stepping down and @neilcgray being the SNP choice to replace him. You heard it here first!
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u/PoopingWhilePosting Apr 26 '24
If Murdo Fraser says it then it's definitely not happening. That guy as about on the ball as my maw....and she's senile as fuck.
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u/Cannaewulnaewidnae Apr 25 '24
I, for one, welcome our new Kate Forbes overlord
I'd like to remind her that, as a trusted Reddit personality, I can be helpful in rounding-up others, to toil in her state Sunday Schools and mind the unaborted offspring of teenage mums, who will soon be packing out Romanian-style orphanages across the country
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u/No-Pause-7723 Apr 25 '24
Would you advise people to crack each others heads open and feast on, the goo inside?
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u/The_Burning_Wizard Apr 25 '24
You'd have to pick your targets for that one carefully. Some won't have as much goo or solid bits inside as others. I'd definitely avoid the Cybernats for that one...
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u/Longjumping_Stand889 Apr 25 '24
So the SNP is supposedly a left wing party but the reactionary elements within it are enough to cause Humza to end the BHA?
It looks more like he did it to preempt the Greens vote, which I thought would be in favour of staying in the BHA, but I guess was less a sure thing. But this is the worst possible way to end it.
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u/farfromelite Apr 25 '24
They're not left wing at all.
They're socially progressive, and economically centre right.
There are bits of the party that disagree, see one of the above comments about hub/spoke model.
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u/GuyLookingForPorn Apr 25 '24
The fact that about half of the membership voted for Kate Forbes really shows how much of the SNP is actually right wing.
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u/Suitableforwork666 Apr 25 '24
Rubbish plenty of people were lukewarm on Humza (myself included) but there was no fucking way I was voting for the homophobe from the loony cult I was raised in.
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u/HaySwitch Apr 25 '24
One of the most clever but infuriating things that modern politicians have achieved is getting center right business focused policy framed as center left.
Even people who are aware of the overton window and the rise of the far right still got hoodwinked by that. Probably because no rampant homophobia was a novelty to us.
Now you have people who call themselves left-leaning liberals acting like the trade unions have just shot the Romanovs in a basement.
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u/Suitableforwork666 Apr 25 '24
The SNP membership is predominantly left-wing. There is a smail contingent to the right.
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u/ScunneredWhimsy Unfortunately leftist, and worse (Scottish) Apr 25 '24
It’s almost certainly not due to internal pressure; it will the Green calling the EGM to vote on maintaining to the deal. To be clear this isn’t a bad thing for them to do (they are a separate party after all), but odds on the membership would have voted to crap the BHA.
There fore Humza breaking it off before hand is tactical; it’s still bad optics but no where near as bad as if the Greens walked away.
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u/Callsign_Freak Apr 25 '24
SNP has never been a left wing party. It's a mixture of people that hold different political ideologies, precariously held together by the promise of independence.
They have always had both left and right leaning policies and member opinions on social issues.
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u/Suitableforwork666 Apr 25 '24
That was true pre 79 group but it been complete rubbish for decades. We've been to the left of Labour for nearly 30 years.
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u/HaySwitch Apr 25 '24
I saw a tweet early last year that made a joke about how Sturgeon leaving was the last time a liberal that didn't punch left would be in power and it appears to be an apt prediction.
Everyone preaches that the parties need to stop bickering etc and work together but that only seems to apply in practice when it's pandering to reactionary fuckwits.
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u/Fit-Good-9731 Apr 25 '24
What does this actually mean?
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u/BedroomTiger Apr 25 '24
Yousaf does a deal with Ash Regan of all people or hes out, and the SNP might be too.
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u/LurkerInSpace Apr 25 '24
If he doesn't he's out. He essentially has a choice of calling an election and hoping he does better than expected, or making a deal with Regan to buy him a little more time.
But she can probably get a better deal from Forbes, so she might vote No Confidence in Yousaf and then offering to vote in Forbes in exchange for some concession or other.
Though Yousaf would himself would then have the deciding vote I think, so he may decide "from Hell's heart I stab at thee".
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u/BedroomTiger Apr 25 '24
I dont think SNP have the momey for four elections in three years.
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u/contentious_Scot Apr 25 '24
The SNP as we know it.... are dead. We are about to hear a lot more from the scottish right. Fasten your seat belts, the next few months are gonna be wild.
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u/YellowParenti72 Apr 25 '24
Snp are liberals and pro-capitalists they are the left wing of capitalism, two cheeks of the same arse shared with the right.
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u/anzactrooper Apr 25 '24
If Scottish independence gets achieved anytime soonish, the SNP will implode. As others have said, they have too many ideological conflicts within themselves to stay apart. Their latest leadership election showed that.
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u/exopolitixs Apr 25 '24
After the events of recent years I don’t see it anytime soon. Country is a shit-show right now (as is the rest of the UK) and the ‘BUT WESTMINSTER’ argument is completely played out now.
5/10 years set back is my best guess for it even being close to possible. They wasted their most popular years in government with stupid policies that nae cunt wanted rather than focusing on fixing actual issues. Not to say they’ve not done some good things, but aye, maybe time for someone else to have a go.
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u/ghost_of_gary_brady Apr 25 '24
IMO the first think Yousaf should have done is push for an election. I know politicians don't think in those terms but it was very obvious things were going to get a lot worse rather than better.
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u/Numerous_Ticket_7628 Apr 25 '24
But....but.....but....the deposit return scheme?! 😭😭
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u/Vectorman1989 #1 Oban fan Apr 25 '24
What annoys me is that Lidl used to have the Pfand machines where you could return empty bottles and such, but they got turned off while the deposit return scheme was being worked on and they haven't been turned back on.
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u/glasgowgeg Apr 25 '24
and they haven't been turned back on
They definitely have them in Glasgow.
Seems to be rolled out in all 21 Lidl's in Glasgow.
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u/Stellar_Duck Apr 25 '24
I can't believe the UK doesn't have this and havne't had this for 30 years. Denmark had one since the 40s for heavens sake.
Even a dump like Ireland has it now.
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u/Callsign_Freak Apr 25 '24
That was ready to launch when WestMonster blocked it. You won't see in the English press how much Scottish public money was wasted by WM doing that......
A lot.
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u/Imreallyadonut Apr 25 '24
The only positive is he lasted longer than Truss.
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u/AnEducatedSimpleton Apr 25 '24
Truss only lasted for as long as she did was because Elizabeth II died which shut down the country for 2 weeks.
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u/GenXWaster Apr 25 '24
For all the doomsayers and gloaters here's what's going to change: nothing. Nowt. Nil. Nada.
Yousaf is not a political heavyweight by any definition but neither are any of the opposition. Douglas Ross shows his incompetence and weakness every time he stands up to speak and his motion of no confidence is any different. This won't be a VoNC in the Scottish government but a VoNC in the FM which has no binding effect. If he had any balls he would have called it against the SG, let the SNP tear itself apart before they either scraped together a new leader or end up with a general election. And the Tories don't want two national elections in the same year.
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u/IndigoIgnacio Apr 26 '24
“ This won't be a VoNC in the Scottish government but a VoNC in the FM which has no binding effect.”
Man you sounded so confident 12 hrs ago.
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u/GenXWaster Apr 26 '24
Hah, ikr!
The Tory one is still exactly that. The labour one, OTOH, is planning to be against the SG.
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u/BeardyBoy40 Apr 25 '24
That's it. I am going to vote green at the next hollyrood election. The SNP have been absolute shit show this last year and this is the last straw.
But it's a real quandary who to vote for at the GE. I would dearly love to get rid of that spineless tory nonentity John Lamont, my current MP, but who has any chance of beating him? The lib Dems used to be an option (though I have never voted for them) but not since they imploded in 2015. Since then, it has been SNP or Tory (mostly the latter). Greens stand no chance here (they don't even stand sometimes), and labour has always been distantly behind (and I am not keen on starmer).
I have always thought it indulgent but seriously thinking I might just have to spoil my ballot.
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Apr 25 '24
At the moment only three candidates have been announced for your constituency: SNP, Scottish Green, and Conservative.
I have no idea of how Labour's overall increase in vote share will play out. Jezzemy Bobbins did okay to push Labour's vote up in 2017, but it didn't really make a difference in BRS.
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u/aWildUPSMan Apr 25 '24
The SNP have held power for over a decade. Even as an SNP voter and an Indyref ‘No’ voter turned ‘Yes’ if we ever get one again, I think it’s astounding it’s even taken this long for the SNP to be on the downward spiral to losing power, even as a minority.
Party infighting, lack of leadership and prior scandals such as Sturgeon v Salmond and then the whole debacle with Peter Murrel has lead them on a crash course to where they are now, amongst other long term issues.
Ultimately, if they do lose power in a snap election (which I think is unlikely as Forbes will no doubt get in and send us back 100 years or so), they need to be out of government for a bit to reassess who they are, that their priority should be independence and let someone from the next generation helm the lead.
Reinvigorate it with someone free from scandal and all the infighting. It’s tiring.
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u/PoopingWhilePosting Apr 26 '24
As much as i'd hate to see Labour in charge up here and how much they will just continuously bow to the will of the UK parties demands (not to mention how utterly fucking useless Sarwar is)...you're not wrong.
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Apr 25 '24
This will leave Humza more time to devote to the important business of solving the problems in the Middle East instead of the piddling little concerns of Scottish people.
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u/hibeejo Apr 25 '24 edited Apr 25 '24
In the cold light of day the SNP have shown they have nothing now.
Pre INDY REF, they had great policies, ideas and some very promising politicians, however I would say the period between indyref ad covid was largely wasted, to much time bickering with westminster rather than focussing on the day job. in Sturgeons later years she (and the SNP) were more focussed on recruiting the Youth & Green vote than looking after their memberships interests, and now were left with this mess.
Snp will likely be ousted from office and will be lucky to return within a decade
This all comes from a SNP MEMBER
I'll add to this by saying they have practically no good politicians now Cherry & Flynn
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Apr 25 '24
everyone can have great ideas in opposition, or minority. but the world looks very different when you actually have to do the hard work of delivering them, funding them and deciding what else you cant do if you want to implement them.
The SNP never stopped being an opposition protest group, even in gov. they always defaulted to attacking westminster, on everything, rather than showign they were competent in gov. they never really understood that if you are in gov, the buck stops with you. thats all the public care about.
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u/hibeejo Apr 25 '24
Whilst I agree mostly, pre indy ref that was what was refreshing about them, they were in power and were making new policies that were largely celebrated, but really post Salmond I'm struggling to think of many that truely helped the country
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u/AnnoKano Apr 25 '24
If they are courting the youth now, surely in 10 years when they are the majority, it will be a boon for the SNP?
People forgave the Lib Dems for the coallition fairly quickly, I wouldn't be so quick to assume their faults will be remembered in 5 years, let alone 10 years. Especially since Labour's polling is more a reflection of westminster than the Scottish Labour party.
Maybe things will change, but it really feels more like running out of steam than total collapse like the Tories atm.
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Apr 26 '24
Did people really forgive the Lib Dems? Hard to see them regaining the votes they had before the coalition in the next election.
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u/AnnoKano Apr 29 '24
Personally I will never forgive them, but some were willing to support them over their pro-EU stance. Lib Dems may do well in areas where it's a Tory/LD race.
What do you think of the new poundland btw?
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Apr 25 '24
The nail in the coffin of the current SNP group as a serious party. It's a pity there wasn't a better candidate at the last leadership election. Having to choose between a shite continuity candidate, a christian fundamentalist and Ash fucking Regan was never going to end well in the long term. The SNP both require, and are going to get a massive electoral shoeing, and i say this as an SNP voter since 2007. I genuinely cannot get behind any of these parties at the next election.
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u/BedroomTiger Apr 25 '24
What an absoute idiot.
He's now powerless, and has to convincce the oppostion to side with him on every single issue.
This is the best outcome for greens, we leave BHA and Pat Harvie stays, and we son't end up like the LibDems, a vistigual voting tail which has no mind of uts own.
We passed Social Progress, enviromental protection, and although messy, for a first time government, so long as lessons are learned, we're atually in stronger standing with our vote base which isn't for todays median voter but tomorrows, which isnt converting from left to right like it used to.
His next government is likely to be a minority too, so eithier he comes grovelling back to us next session or he's basically resigned the election.
Is this simply done for the good of independance? A deal with the SNP rebels to get support for the victims bill? What?
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u/MetalBawx Apr 25 '24
Well the Tories are apparantly hitting him with a 'No Confidence' vote so yeah Huffer's managed to shoot himself in the foot.
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u/SpacecraftX Top quality East Ayrshire export Apr 25 '24
My vote is green-green until the SNP get their fucking act together.
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u/eoz Apr 25 '24
That's what they get for trying to make sure the air is breathable and the weather is safe and there's not food shortages when they should have focused on issues voters care about like more parking and being able to assault minorities in the street without getting enhanced charges for hate crimes
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u/Dramyre92 Apr 25 '24
There's such a pathetic choice these days.
The SNP are crumbling and the cracks are showing now. All they needed to do was focus on governing well and Independence would have been theirs.
The Tories would be objectively worse and not sure labour would be any better. Anyone who thinks the Tories deserve to be in power is a tool.
Honestly I'm really hoping for a huge swing to the greens from labour and snp voters. They seem to be the only party capable of thinking about the day job rather than tit for tat bickering.
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u/Cannaewulnaewidnae Apr 25 '24
I'm really hoping for a huge swing to the greens from labour and snp
When you say 'huge', you mean a 1000% swing
That sort of swing has only ever happened in the opposite direction - i.e Labour going from dominating Scottish politics to 2 MPs
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u/Odd-Tax4579 Apr 25 '24
Independence would never be theirs because they never cared about independence truly. Let alone the people. It’s a distraction tactic aimed to cover their pure greed and corruption.
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u/On__A__Journey Apr 25 '24
I hope not. The Greens have been awful, they are extremists with current policy implantation.
They got a bit of power and went crazy with it.
Good riddance to them.
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u/West_Apartment_4846 Apr 25 '24
Jeezo. Seems like the right wing are out in droves today.
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u/imnotpauleither Apr 25 '24
Its not Right Wing to criticise a failing government. They have been shambolic now for years. Look at the state of the country, look at the embezzelment cases, and look at that useless fruitloop running the party.
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u/West_Apartment_4846 Apr 25 '24 edited Apr 25 '24
1 Humza ain't as bad as the media loves to cry.
2 Active case ongoing about the embezzlement.
3 State of the country would be worse with other parties as this budget is appalling.
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u/imnotpauleither Apr 25 '24
1 I honestly prefered the last two; they had balls (Metaphorically for the latter, of course). He strikes me as a bit weak.
2 True, but this is the second time he has been arrested (Albeit, I think this has been set up by the Tory-wanks down south trying to force an election up here[ USA style])
3 That may be true, but we cannot say for sure. We can only comment on what has atually been the case, not what might have been the case.
For the record, please dont think I am alligned to any of these parties; I trust none of them....at all.......and detest the vast majority of them wholeheartedly. The SNP were the closest thing to one I had respect for, but that is waivering these days.
Oh god, how I miss Salmond!
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u/West_Apartment_4846 Apr 25 '24
Look at Wales under a Labour government. Look at England under a tory one. We see how it reflects on other nations.
Overall we are a shit show of a nation, I do prefer the greens and independence. But as it stands, the SNP are probably the best bet for the next decade. Greens will continue to grow. I don't see Alba getting too big.
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u/imnotpauleither Apr 25 '24
I'm not saying the SNP are not the best option, but I am saying that Yousless is not the best option. I would have prefered the ginge, but that is the story of my life 🔥😛🤣
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u/Due-Dig-8955 Apr 25 '24
Critiquing the SNP based on what you just said makes you “right wing”? LOL
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u/A6M_Zero Apr 25 '24
The brigading on this sub has been getting insane in recent months. There are literally accounts that do nothing but post dozens of anti-SNP diatribes each and every single day, often almost entirely copied from each other.
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u/West_Apartment_4846 Apr 25 '24
What confuses me is that it doesn't seem to represent the electorate as the SNP seem to dominate in most votes.
I am personally a fan of the greens and neutral of the SNP. But the shift has been mental.
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Apr 25 '24
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u/BonnieWiccant Apr 25 '24
Labour can have my vote next election.
Labour has mentioned ending free tuitions and, more importantly for the average person, ending free prescriptions in Scotland. To my knowledge its not their official policy yet just something thats been mentioned by some labour mps, but we should still be wary and wait and see what Labour offer Scotland first before deciding to vote for them.
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u/PixelF Apr 25 '24
Googled both of these points and what you're saying just isn't true. Scottish Labour have re-committed to their last manifesto point of tuition-free higher education in Scotland every time they've been asked. The SNP's best evidence for the scare story that they're getting rid of free prescriptions is an interview from well over a decade ago
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u/AngusMcJockstrap Apr 26 '24
Yousaf is an agent sent by mi6 to destroy the nattys. Argue with a wall
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u/corporalcouchon Apr 25 '24
Could possibly be damage limitation from Yousof who might see it as a way to trigger an early election, before the embezzlement cases get to court and the shit hits the aircon.
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u/Heypisshands Apr 25 '24
And because there will be a trial politicians might not be able to comment on it incase its deemed as interfering with the trial. Or did i dream this.
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u/Splorrach Apr 25 '24
I think the Greens could likely be back, but as part of a Labour/Green coalition in the next Scottish Parliament (easier for Labour than partnering with Tories or SNP) - but Labour likely to keep their distance for the moment in case it costs them votes.
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Apr 25 '24
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u/ieya404 Apr 25 '24
Edinburgh isn't a coalition, it's a (very) minority Labour administration.
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u/StylanPetrov Apr 25 '24
It's a really shit time to be a person of conscience. To be someone who thinks that we should put people's health and well being above the interests of oil companies, landlords, right wing bigots and western imperialism. The world is fucked and from Holyrood, to Westminster, to the White House no one seems to be interested in making the lives of people better.
Genuinely, don't see a way that anything gets better in the next 20 years. Just misery and suffering so that the wealthy and powerful can keep making more money than a million people could spend in a thousand lifetimes.
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u/No-Preparation-6943 Apr 25 '24
Maybe now we’ll get the SNP back on the road to independence rather than pandering to the Greens.
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u/That_Boy_42069 Apr 25 '24 edited Apr 25 '24
This is fine. The Greens were starting to get on my tits anyway, too much time spent on fringe issues has led to a lot of people in the country feeling a bit ignored.
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Apr 25 '24 edited Apr 25 '24
The greens, especially the talentless Lorna Slater never had it so good. They brought nothing to the table and just used the deal as a platform to advance deeply unpopular green policies while piggybacking off the independence movement and we've seen how the Greens are slowly dropping their support for that while softening up to Labour. They had to go.
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u/Haystack67 Apr 25 '24
Introducing any opponent with a negative adjective ("the talentless Lorna Slater") makes me read your comment in the voice of Donald Trump lol
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u/eoz Apr 25 '24
"She's talentless, folks, I call her Talentless Lorna... leader of the woke Greens, we don't like the greens... they want to ban cars, they won't make America great..."
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Apr 25 '24
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u/LurkerInSpace Apr 25 '24
There were a good chunk of SNP voters backing the Greens on the list (the SNP got 48% in the constituency vs just 40% on the list; the Greens got 8% on the list) so it's reasonable to conclude that the SNP did owe that support to the prospect of having a productive relationship with the Greens.
Though that then flips the problem around since this means those supporters didn't vote for this minority government, and may well now withhold their constituency vote for the SNP.
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u/AnnoKano Apr 25 '24
People obviously did vote for this.
You can look it up on this very subreddit at the time and find people saying as much.
And what about the people who voted SNP/Green?
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u/EquivalentIsopod7717 Apr 25 '24
Well, okay, those who did somehow vote for this have now been fucked.
Hmm. What to do.
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u/AnnoKano Apr 25 '24
Well for me, I'll continue to vote SNP/Green, until I have a reason to votedifferently.
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u/PoopingWhilePosting Apr 26 '24
Nobody voted for this. Some revisionist ghouls might try and claim they knew it was coming and tactically voted for it in May 2021, but they'd be talking bollocks of course.
Nobody puts a coalition in their manifesto, you clown.
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u/Over_Temporary_8018 Apr 25 '24
It's a nonsensical argument to say that a coalition wasn't put on the ballot. They basically never are.
Majority of Scotland did not vote for SNP. A government fully formed by SNP is not something that Scotland voted for.
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Apr 25 '24
Got to laugh at the spin in the reporting of this, although not surprised. The government hasn't "collapsed", the FM made a decision to remove the Greens from it. The government continues and will do until the next election unless all of the other parties combine to screw the country over and collapse it.
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u/wishmylifewasascool Apr 25 '24 edited Apr 25 '24
The majority government has collapsed and the FM is facing a vote of no confidence where there is a strong possibility he could lose. No spin needed
Edit: Adding updated news that both Patrick Harvie and Lorna Slater have indicated they will vote against the FM, the other Greens likely to follow suit. Humza’s future (bizarrely) is in the hands of his old colleague and FM competitor, Ash Regan of the Alba party. Crazy how things can change so quickly
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u/eltoi Apr 25 '24
Crazy how things can change so quickly
It's been coming for a long time. It's great to watch the final hurdle though
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u/AnakonDidNothinWrong Apr 25 '24
They still won’t give you a shot in the camper van
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u/ElCaminoInTheWest Apr 25 '24
Getting in there early with the 'we were doing fine until you guys ruined everything!' I see.
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u/Cannaewulnaewidnae Apr 25 '24
The government continues and will do until the next election unless all of the other parties combine to screw the country over and collapse it
If the country wanted an SNP government, they would have voted for an SNP government
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u/Big_white_dog84 Apr 25 '24
No idea how these wet blankets got so close to power. Utter empty shirts. Good riddance. SNP next out please.
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u/cheesemuncher2k Apr 25 '24
Yea it’s gonna be interesting, power shift onto greens incoming possibly ?
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u/Broccoli--Enthusiast Apr 25 '24
we can only hope, all the I was an snp voter and member for a long time, but this is just mental.
all the parties are wanks, but the greens seem like the only people worth my vote
but this will split the vote this close to an election and we will end up with a diluted government that gets fuck all done.
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u/ieya404 Apr 25 '24
Just over a year ago, he sang quite a different tune.
Wonder how many of the SNP members whose support saw him squeak a narrow win did so because of his support of the Bute House Agreement (when both Forbes and Regan were sceptical)?