r/Scotland • u/backupJM public transport revolution needed 🚇🚊🚆 • 1d ago
Political SNP blazer ban rejected by Scotland’s top state schools | Government guidelines urged heads to abandon strict uniform policies and take a ‘flexible and inclusive approach’
https://archive.is/mVLZ324
u/backupJM public transport revolution needed 🚇🚊🚆 1d ago edited 1d ago
The headline is slightly misleading in that blazers aren't being banned, but rather schools were given guidance that blazers should not be a compulsory part of the school uniform. The story is that some schools have rejected that guidance. It was not mandatory nor a ban, so this is not surprising.
Previous thread on it when the guidance was first issued: https://www.reddit.com/r/Scotland/s/IiZApP8X4z
A Scottish government spokesman said: “The school uniform guidance makes clear that it is for individual schools to develop their own school uniform polices, which are both affordable and sustainable, while recognising the individual needs of all pupils.
“The national guidance was devised following consultation with schools, families, uniform suppliers, pupils and councils with the aim of limiting costs for families and reducing waste.
“We have made clear that implementation will be monitored and, if necessary, any steps needed to strengthen the guidance in future will be undertaken. Every child in Scotland should be able to attend school feeling comfortable, confident, and ready to learn.”
25
u/TouchOfSpaz 1d ago
I went to a school in 2003 that forced people to wear blazers. The school was a mix of middle-class, working-class and poverty. When my Mum couldn’t afford to buy a growing teenager a new blazer I was forced to wear one from a random wardrobe in the P.E staff room.
The slaggings I took for that were unreal.
8
u/Sorry-Transition-780 20h ago
Yep, there was a pecking order at my school as well with the kids who had new blazers every year and the ones like me wearing hand-me-downs or second hand ones from the community. My blazers always stood out because they were worn and had a washed colour due to age, anyone who could afford it just got a new one when they started getting like that.
I guess if they're going to make it a uniform requirement, they could at least make sure everyone finds it just as easy to acquire the same uniform. Damn thing cost like £60, which is a decent amount when it's extra on top of the rest.
Either do away with it being essential or make sure that everyone is just given one for free at an equal frequency. The price aspect means that the working class kids literally stand out at school because they aren't going to be spending what money they do have on flippant crap like blazers compared to the rich kids whose parents can buy them a new one whenever they like.
9
u/Bobcat-2 19h ago
Perhaps the schools should be sourcing and selling the uniforms at cost rather than having to purchase it through a specialist school wear shop at ridiculous mark-up.
The blazer will no doubt be made in some far east sweatshop for buttons by slave Labour and these cretins resell if for £65+.
If I could pick up a blazer in school for £20, I'd happily drop £5 or £10 in a donation tin to help discount or pay the cost of a new uniform for people that are less fortunate, and I'm sure others would too.
29
u/Loreki 20h ago
Strongly support Scottish Government's approach. Making poorer families buy an expensive coat so their kid doesn't stick out (or so they don't get hassle off the teachers) is a ridiculous thing to do. It has nothing to do with education.
2
u/Sym-Mercy 10h ago
My school ran a scheme that you could either purchase your own blazer from the manufacturer or take one which was handed back by leavers, rebraided, cleaned etc and then given back to the school to give out to new pupils. This alongside £150 grants available from Glasgow City Council per year per child for family’s on low incomes to buy uniform.
The support is there, and schemes very easily implemented to help with acquiring a uniform. Letting go of standards in schools is just going to result in more bullying between those who turn up in expensive clothing and those who don’t.
-9
u/mfulton81 14h ago
You do realise that school uniforms are very cheap compared to other clothing and don't involve brands and bullying. Google how much a White fox hoodie or a Canada goose jacket are and tell me a school uniform is expensive. FWIW most schools don't require a blazer. Just simple plain black shoes, trousers/skirt, shirt and jumper. The only unique part is the tie which can last 6 years.
5
u/DINNERTIME_CUNT 12h ago
That’s clearly bollocks. If someone can’t afford it they can’t afford it, and kids grow out of clothes really quickly, and when you combine these two things you get the scenario someone described above where the impoverished kids get the arse ripped out of them for having to wear a blazer that’s ill-fitting because it’s all the school had available and it might as well be a huge spotlight that points out their impoverished status, leading to endless bullying.
7
u/Andruu123 20h ago edited 20h ago
Our entire school was lowest of the low working class and we were forced to have blazers. In our last 2 years if you wanted to stay on(many students were pressured by their parents to get a job, leave school or go straight into college from that point rather than stay on) they forced you to buy another blazer. One that had a few extra colours. Yes for those struggling households the government has policies to cover or reduce those costs BUT if the school wants you in a Gucci blazer 1. Im not sure how much the government will cover 2. That must cost the government a bloody fortune just to make the school feel better. Its also worth noting our school had been starved of any financial input for around 25 years at that point. We were using chemistry and biology books with my aunts name in them(from a previous school that had been knocked down 15 years before i was born) its also worth noting that when parents(there were many) requested alternative schools in the area when i was on my way up to high school mine and many other parents requests were refused due to being outside of "the catchment area". I have so so many other issues with schools but this blazer thing is ridiculous and is set by teachers who just don't live in reality. I had a new headteacher before i left in my last year(thats a whole other kettle of fish in terms of issues) that one day when i was waiting to go home in the office at the front of the school(sick and zero issues ever with behaviour)didnt want me to appear with a jacket on inside his school because it offended his eyes. I tried to explain i was leaving and my gran was outside. He lost it and i had to take the jacket off for 5 mins before she arrived. These people don't have any real issue they have these complexes or dreams or fantasies of running private schools and are attempting to push it on students/families trying to make it by. This should be pushed further if possible.
30
u/raymengl 1d ago
When did blazers come back into fashion at high schools, and for what purpose?
Early 2000's, schools had ties, polo shirts and sweatshirts; and that was more than enough to distinguish between each school, and had the benefit of being more accessible for lower income families. As far as I can tell, this was pretty standard across a lot of schools.
Why the return of the blazer?
41
u/Vectorman1989 #1 Oban fan 1d ago
There seems to be some people that think if the kids look smarter then they'll behave better. That's about it really.
6
u/DeathOfNormality 1d ago
Depends on your school. Dundee schools had a lot of blazers from 2005 - 2015 at least, when I visit home I still see that Dundee High deffo still has very "traditional" uniforms.
I went to a proper scheme school there like, and it was only the 5th and 6th year students who wore the blazers, so if you were that disadvantaged, you generally didn't stay in school after 4th year...
5
u/Optimal_Fish_7029 19h ago
Same here, attended a Dundee secondary 2007-2013 and only 5th/6th year wore blazers but other than being "ugly" no one complained? I think we all mostly just hated that hoodies were banned and we couldn't wear jackets inside
5
7
u/fillemagique 22h ago
I went to high school in the early to mid 2000s and there were still some schools that had blazers/strict uniform.
The problem with the blazers apart from the money, is my kids (and probably many others) complain that they’re far too hot in them, even in crap weather but the school has deemed them compulsory.
I ended up having hoodies made up at the school shop with the emblem on and they couldn’t/didn’t do anything about it as they had the emblem and then told us that they were actually "really smart" looking, so I’m still buying hoodies but have one going in this year who will get a blazer just to look the same as everyone at first but he’s already decided he wants the hoodies too. The schools should really all just make it trousers and emblemed hoodies/zippers so that the kids are comfortable.
It’s easier to learn when you’re not hot and itchy.
1
u/shugthedug3 15h ago
It was after I left for sure, I'm going to say early 2000s.
Nowadays they all do it, looks pretty ridiculous and I don't envy the families having to buy that shite.
-21
u/lfgeorgiapeach 1d ago
It was Labour, some time around 2008/9. About the same time they started converting all the secondary schools into Academies. The funding started coming directly from the government, instead of local councils. A ton of schools got huge budget boosts and adopted the fancier uniforms.
14
u/Delts28 Uaine 1d ago
What pish are you on about? We don't have the English academy system up here at all.
My school also introduced blazers in 2004 if I remember correctly for everyone in S6. My wife has blazers at school at the same time and she lived on the other side of the country.
1
u/youwhatwhat doesn't like Irn Bru 1d ago edited 1d ago
Yeah, I started high school in 2007 and blazers were a thing even waaay before then.
Also don't really understand what relevance Labour has here given the SNP came into power in 2007.
Ultimately it should be left up to the schools. No one in my school was forced to wear a blazer unless they wanted to be a prefect. Even then folk wore them willingly when I was in 6th year in 2013ish. Not sure how it is these days mind!
3
2
u/Ewendmc 17h ago
Scottish education is under the Scottish parliament and Labour weren't in power in Holyrood in 2008/9. It has always been separate from England, even before devolution. Also Scotland didn't convert to an academy system though we do have schools called acadamies, they aren't the same as in England.
1
1
4
u/username1310 1d ago
i always liked my blazer in school but we were only allowed to wear them in s5&6 so it made u feel important lol
15
u/ninjascotsman 1d ago edited 1d ago
I have to agree with the government, it's time for schools to modernize instead of being stuck in the past.
but if the schools want to disagree then maybe they should make compulsory that wear more fitting attire such teaching robe and mortarboard.
-15
u/quartersessions 1d ago
but if the schools want to disagree then maybe they should make compulsory that wear more fitting attire such teaching robe and mortarboard.
All for this.
Ultimately though, I don't think the Scottish Government has any place in telling schools what their uniform policy should be.
0
u/cfloweristradional 10h ago
You don't think the body elected to run education in Scotland should tell schools what to do?
0
u/quartersessions 8h ago
The education authority for state schools in Scotland is the local council or, in one case, a school board.
The idea that this level of micromanagement should be at central government level - or, frankly, even council-level - is absurd. If you don't give a school, its headteacher and its management structure even the most basic operational autonomy, you're going to get terrible outcomes.
1
u/cfloweristradional 6h ago
It's perfectly reasonable for the government to set nationwide standards.
1
u/quartersessions 5h ago
This isn't setting up a national examinations structure or something, which enables wider recognition and ensures consistent standards of qualification and assessment.
We're talking about dress codes, ffs. There's absolutely no serious case for having this directed by a supposed central government.
1
u/cfloweristradional 5h ago
Given that thw government is responsible for improving education standards, and proponents both of uniform and non uniform claim that their way helps with that, it seems reasonable.
That's before you consider the impact of cost of things like blazers which contribute to child poverty, another government issue
1
u/quartersessions 5h ago
If the Scottish Government's Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills genuinely can't think of anything better to do with her time than issue guidance about school clothing standards, she should resign and find someone a bit more engaged.
She is not there to run the 2,500 schools in Scotland. That is not her job. It is the job of headteachers and the statutory education authorities - who are far better placed than she is to understand these issues.
One might even go as far as to suggest Scotland's mediocre education system might be linked to ministers who want to avoid serious problems that they are actually responsible for in favour of pissing about with issues like this. Standards will dwindle, while Jenny Gilruth puts out a circular on the number of pommel horses required in the gym, broken down by school.
1
u/cfloweristradional 4h ago
Ah I see that this is a party political thing rather than a principled stance. That's fair enough but I don't have much interest in engaging in that
8
u/SorchaSublime 16h ago
School uniforms are fucking idiotic
0
u/Johnnycrabman 7h ago
Part of the reason they exist now is that there isn’t peer pressure for kids to turn up in CP company jumpers and Air Max 95’s, en ensemble that would cost a week’s pay.
2
u/SorchaSublime 7h ago
Right, because as we all know school uniforms entirely eliminate the problem of classist peer pressure 🙄
1
u/Johnnycrabman 7h ago
Not at all, but it’s one less expense pressure on parents assuming uniforms are a reasonable cost. The earlier comment about Glasgow Council having to give £150 grants to help towards uniform costs is mind blowing.
2
u/SorchaSublime 4h ago
I am very much gonna dispute this premise, it's the sort of thing which only tracks on paper. In practice, as far as I know there is no empirical evidence of it actually making a difference, certainly not enough to offset the loss of self expression.
3
u/CoolRanchBaby 16h ago
My kids go to one of the historically seen as top/still very good schools in our area and they only finally stopped requiring blazers with Covid and thankfully have kept the dress code relaxed after. They were very strict on blazers before and no other schools in our area were. Some of the snooty parents (who in the past would have been the ones to send their kids to private school but are some that fell off as the numbers there drop) were the angriest but I was happy about it. So impractical.
3
u/Complete_Ordinary183 16h ago
I’ve stood at a school entrance door in the middle of winter and seen a Deputy Head stood in their full length puffer jacket awaiting arrival of pupils, getting them to remove their own puffer jackets and stick their blazer on.
If that’s not hypocritical bullshit then I don’t know what is.
2
u/JohnScone 14h ago
Had kids at St Ninians High in East Ren, saw this all the time in winter, pissed me off no end.
2
u/DINNERTIME_CUNT 12h ago
Any teacher head of year or above is typically a complete cunt.
1
u/mata_dan 6h ago
Except the head head teacher, sometimes they are sound, but with a staff of cunts who can take the blame of running things so they can appear all nice :D
3
u/Kelypsov 14h ago edited 14h ago
Without even actually reading the article:
blazer ban
Government guidelines
So is it a ban or is it guidelines? The two aren't the same.
EDIT: So the article seems to indicate that it's guidelines. So the headline and entire thrust of the article is based on something that simply isn't true.
2
u/SpacecraftX Top quality East Ayrshire export 8h ago
Looks like I must have been the only kid in Scotland they liked their blazer.
2
u/Synthia_of_Kaztropol 18h ago
The only reason to wear blazers is so that when you're an adult, you can wear your old one to get discounted or sometimes even free entry to the nightclub's "Back 2 Skool" events, along with fishnet stockings, miniskirt, cropped shirts that show off your bra, and all the other silliness.
Do clubs even still run such events in this era ?
2
u/username1310 12h ago
university events sometimes do, my dad made me keep my blazer when i left school for this reason and Halloween parties lol
2
1
u/Spare_Artichoke_3070 11h ago
If you don't give them a uniform then all the wee lads will wear their own unofficial uniform of identical black northface puffer jackets anyway.
1
u/NoIndependent9192 16h ago
I understand that schools are not legally permitted to enforce uniform policies in Scotland. It’s more of a guideline.
1
u/shugthedug3 15h ago
Every school thinks they're fucking Hogwarts these days, it's ridiculous.
Ideally uniform would be abandoned entirely, silly Victorian concept.
2
-2
u/sharplight141 18h ago
So sick of every government statement having the buzzword inclusive in it when it's not even relevant. Should definitely be flexible though, especially in the summer months. Uniforms look smarter than none at all, just need to make sure there's a scheme for parents that can't afford the uniform or approach where it's a general uniform instead of a set supplier.
1
u/mata_dan 6h ago
Back in my day winter was the issue, absolutely freezing to fucking death in the shit polyester uniform.
-6
u/bateau_du_gateau 19h ago
Mandatory kilts with school sporrans. Are there no true Scotsmen in the hoose?
49
u/reversemotorboat 18h ago
Since the article makes absolutely no attempt to be balanced. I'll add here what this article definitely should have.
Exactly one school in Scotland has been rated as Excellent for "Learning and Teaching" and Excellent for "Raising Attainment" after inspection - Hyndland Secondary in Glasgow.
Hyndland does not enforce any uniform policy.
Tes article about the inspection report