The title and Rule 8 of the group.

Good luck to them lol

I'm a thirty year old male, living about 300 miles away from my parents. I go see them every half year or so.

To make a long story short, they adopted two kids after myself and my siblings were out. I do respect them for taking responsibility for my new brothers. But kids are still their whole entire identity to this day, even after we all grew up. To me sounds like decades of purgatory, but the kids are genuinely happy. It's a good thing, I think.

But recently, they've been pressing me a lot more to be involved in the kids' lives more actively. Like constant, constant text message chains about the boys' lives, every single day.
I feel like I have to put up this emotional wall now between us. I feel so guilty for not wanting to take on a more active role in their lives.

For example, the other day my parents told me they bought tickets to a live kids' show (some sort of podcast) at a music venue, which sounds great... but the music venue is down the street from where I live. Again, they live 300 miles away.
They asked me if I would take them to it. I had to put my foot down and said no.

Now I feel awful about it.

I genuinely don't want to spend a whole afternoon with anyone's kids. But these are my parents, and my brothers.
I'm not a total dick, I just... don't like hanging out with kids? Like my parents assume I want to be a role model, because I'm the oldest perhaps. But I haven't lived with them for over a decade now, sooo......

Just had to get that off my chest. I feel like I put this somewhere like r/adulting, they would just roast me for not taking responsibility or something like that.

All you can do is tread water in life. You are constantly pushed underwater, and when you get back to the surface, there is nowhere to go from there. You can't get out of the water. All you can do is distract yourself from the inevitability of being pushed under again, this time probably with less oxygen and more sharks trying to bite off your limbs. This is because there are losses that just start to press really heavily on you: the loss of your health, energy, youth, beauty, sanity, mental acuity, dignity, and loved ones. And there are no positives that can compensate even a little bit for any of that. If you are lucky, you have an early peak in life, followed by a slow and painful decline. And if for an instant you were relieved of your burden of need, you would understand how truly degraded your predicament really is. But people don't understand it because of their delusions. The delusions of... "It's all gonna be fine!"..."Jesus is gonna save me!"..."The universe has a plan for me!"..."I can win!" Or maybe it's simply their fear of death that makes them, in their desperation and clinginess, apply some ethereal quality to their silly strivings.

the matrix is a system designed to keep us weak, confused, and controlled. it’s run by the elites and patriarchy, who want to keep us in the dark about our real power and they’ve been using women as the key to maintaining control. truth is, we don’t need to follow the rules ...relationships, money, kids it’s all just distractions to keep the system alive.

why bring kids into a world built on lies and suffering? the system thrives on keeping us trapped in a cycle of confusion. we don’t need to reproduce to keep this going. the more women wake up, the faster the matrix falls. we’re the key to ending it.

stop feeding the system. the matrix dies when we stop playing along.

(your average reddit rant here ) our only job was to lisent to eachother , not kill each other , not drain each other of all our money in a consumming culture that sucks your soul out , to look for ideas not people , to help our kin , we failed point blanc , humans of this day and age are so disinterested in any idea of benefit to the whole civilization , have kids ? you made their lifes hell and humans dont breed in captivity (concrete jungle and work enslavment culture ) , do science ? a kid named the rizzler who does goffy shit on the internet will make your anual salary in a day , and if you are that smart you should do finanace or something cause smart people make money , not inventions (real life experience) , show empathy and kindness ? you are just weak ...... we literally checked every books to end all mankind , at this point am either gonna dissapear into the woods or do something rash

Why would I ever bring a child into a world with more and more instability, chaos, loneliness, hopelessness, and purposelessness?

We all know them, the people that are 24/7 working hard. The “I got it out of da mud” ones that brag about how much of a hardship their life was. The ones that flaunt their new money on us peasants who “ain’t got that dog in us”.

It’s amusing seeing their persona crumble as you explain to them that they wouldn’t have to be so much of a hustler if they didn’t exist in the first place. How their suffering was meaningless and avoidable. And how they are not as special as they think they are.

Then they go around and create new life, making their lives harder for no reason. All to prove a point and cope with the trauma they grew up with. Promising to make sure their kids have a better life. It’s a really sad, but it interesting sight to see.

A lot of them internalize their pain and feel like it was an integral part of their life, failing to recognize the true evil of procreation as the real culprit for their distress. It’s just hustle hustle hustle for them.

Only the bad things in life are guaranteed

Most things in this world are pretty awful: murder, suffering, death, annihilation, sorrow, and so on and so forth. Natalists will tout the age old “it’s not all bad you depressed piece of shit!”

Seriously? The good things in life, love, camaraderie, beauty, etc, are only for the lucky handful. There’s so many people that will never and have never had those things. Are you gonna give it to them? Didn’t think so

People who are having children: what kind of future are you expecting for them ? Like how much are you able/willing to provide to your child so he can have the perfect life that you have in mind? For sure your money won't go as far as your parents money did with you. Secondly, are you okay with the congenital lottery: like say if your child comes to life with a lifelong crippling disease: how do you plan on dealing with it ? whether financially or emotionally. Because if you really can't fathom having a non functioning child and you, yourself decide to quit life, what good did you do to your child ? The idea is that you seal your children's fate once you bring them to life..

"I wanted to have someone love me unconditionally"

What in the actual fuck does this even mean? I've heard people give this "reason" for having children and it's blows my mind. The pure ignorance and lack of self awareness in this statement is mind boggling.

First - there's no guarantee that the child is even going to love you. Second- just because you gave birth or are a father doesn't give you the "right" to be loved. Third - the child doesn't owe you shit simply because you created it.

What a stupid statement.

O

I just got off one of the most brutal shifts of my entire life in which I had to stay late to hand stack product that weighed 150 lbs each. I was hoping one of my coworkers would help but he left early. Usually, the job isn't that bad, but this experience broke something in me. I was on the fence about antinatalism prior to this. But this was the straw the broke the camel's back. I am now 100% behind antinatalism.

I don't ever, ever, ever want future children to end up like me and I will NEVER reproduce. I NEVER want them to experience what working class life is like. The ONLY reason why someone should have kids is if there's an economically necessary reason for it, such as farm labor, or if one is wealthy. There is NO VALID REASON working class people should have kids.

Suffering is an inherent and guaranteed aspect of the human experience. It penetrates every corner of our lives, often without warning or respite. From the moment we are born, we are thrust into a world encompassing pain, hardship, and disappointment.

The futility of human endeavor is starkly evident in the face of suffering. We toil, we strive, and we struggle, only to find that our efforts are often met with failure and disillusionment. Our accomplishments, no matter how grand, are ultimately reduced to dust and ashes. The relentless march of time erodes all that we hold dear, leaving us with nothing but memories of what once was.

Even in the most seemingly idyllic of circumstances, suffering lurks just beneath the surface. The facade of happiness is fragile, and it can shatter at any moment, plunging us into an abyss of despair. The comforts of love, family, and friendship are fleeting, and even these can be torn from us in an instant.

We search for answers, for solace, and for comfort, but often find only more suffering. Our existence is a cruel joke, a Sisyphean task of pushing against the boulder of fate.

I cannot even imagine the plight of humans who suffer from physical pain and disabilities everyday. The slightest amount of compassion will make one weep for all of us, nevertheless.

In the end, suffering is the one constant in our lives. We are all bound together by our shared suffering, united in our futile struggle against the forces of fate. How can people keep bringing children into a world like this? It's nothing but cruelty. This futile cycle ends with me.

Better Never to Have Been yet again.

I was just thinking how nice it would be if subjective consciousness was foisted upon the life drive itself so it could intimately feel how much damage it does in its blind quest to continue with zero regard for the subjective experiences, which if you include the dying experience, ends in at least a little bit dread (hell if you ask me) - an experience that absolutely nothing benefits from.

I know the rules say "no eugenics", so let me preface by saying that this is NOT an endorsement of eugenics, nor an invitation to discuss it.

I have been called out by people when sharing my antinatalist views for promoting eugenics. According to Wikipedia, eugenics is the a set of beliefs and practices that aim to improve the genetic quality of the population. This has some overlap with certain directions of antinatalism, but is very problematic because the idea of eugenics has fueled some truly atrocious movements in history.

I am not a "full" antinatalist, as I do not want the human species (or any other species) to go extinct. I do however strongly believe that we should aim for "quality over quantity" in human lives, and I am also extremely against most if not all natalist views.

I think it would be interesting to do a case study on some different statements, to try to classify if they are problematic or not or if you agree with them. I don't fully agree with all of these and find some problematic.

1. A way to make more people live better lives is to ensure that less people are born. Wanting "quality over quantity" in human lives is not eugenics.

2. If the end goal of antinatalism is to make sure less or no people are born, people of certain areas of the world have a larger responsibility than others to ensure less people are born, as certain areas of the world give birth to way more children.

3. Some people are better at raising children to live good lives compared to others. The genetic component of this is basically non-existant. Ideally, it is better if people who are good at raising children raise children compared to those who are not, but there is nearly no way to enforce this in a moral way.

4. It is completely immoral for people with genetic illnesses to have children. If it is morally better (though arguably always wrong) to give birth to healthy children, and there is a genetic component to a child's health, it is morally better for people with "good" genes to give birth than those who do not. Importantly, what we historically have used to categorize "races" of people, like skin colour, is completely irrelevant here. "Good genes" only refers to genes that has a positive effect on a that persons ability to be and make others happy.

5. Conditional antinatalism (CAN) is not eugenics. If AN is the idea that procreation is immoral, then CAN is the idea that procreation is immoral under some (or most) conditions. CAN is then only eugenics if you consider procreation is immoral if it leads to lower quality of the genes of the population. There are other reasons to be CAN, for example:

6. If wars break out, it is immoral to procreate in areas affected by the war.

7. If pollution is not curbed in accordance to international treaties, it will become immoral to procreate.

8. it is immoral to procreate if the person is not born into a society with the ability to self-realize, with free Healthcare, free education, strong workers rights etc. The list goes on, and whether or not you agree that there are conditions where procreation is immoral (as opposed to it always being immoral), the point is that CAN is not eugenics.

This channel explains Antinatalism in simple terms.

The virus that is life is the problem here, always has been, always will for ALL living things. Humans of course suffer more than any other creature because we live longer and we are aware of the evil here, a rabbit isn't.

Sure some people do better than others in the crisis stakes and the hardship battles out there on the front line. Just like in a real war you had the grunts getting shot at while the generals sat in their bunkers miles away and sipped chateau de' chateau.

But all suffer one way or another in this life. The rich have the illusion that their wealth will protect them, yet billionaires die just like poor people. No one has yet beaten life because you can't.

The ONLY answer to any of this is not to be dragged here. Hence AN.

The second answer is a peaceful exit for those that want it as a human right. Globally.

Instead here we are. Our consent was violated by others in bringing us here and it continues to be violated by the entire fucking globe by keeping us trapped here.

As I look back over my so called life I can honestly say I regret everything, everything accept for the fact I didn't drag anyone here, to go through this hell, and it IS a hell, never let anyone gas-lite you into thinking otherwise.

My suffering and yours shall continue, maybe it will never end, but for the could have been's and the potentials they will never experience it and for that I envy them with every single atom of my being.

They were the true lucky ones, all of us, nothing more than life's victims.

through a quick glance at this sub, i can gather what general thoughts are on adoption and the ‘muh legacy’ argument, and i totally agree.

my ex just dropped a bomb on me regarding a change in his perspective on having children, where we previously were quite firm on not having children in general. a while ago he went through a shooting incident (he was not the shooter but was an officer who showed up to the scene last) as a law enforcement officer where the civilian did not survive. he said this changed his perspective on having children.

while he did maintain that he was okay with attaining this child through adoption (or even a surrogate he brought up 🙄), his primary reasoning for it was to fUrtHeR hiS leGaCy. he understands that his life isn’t revolutionary in a sense but wants to pass on the knowledge and experience to another person. he did acknowledge the negative ‘what ifs.’ like if the child turned out to hate him, to not like his job, to hate the life they lived—it would still be worth it, because it’s part of the ‘experience.’ 🤮🤢🤢🙄🙄 he even brought up his niece and nephew, and i asked why they weren’t enough. he said it was because he wouldn’t be the ‘central figure’ in their life.

so id love to hear others’ perspectives on and arguments against this. tear him apart lmao. to me, it’s a completely selfish reason to even adopt, no matter if it’s a better avenue than biological children. i obviously think he needs therapy, but he maintains that he’s ‘not traumatized’ and doesn’t need therapy lmao, like u dont think that ur entire perspective on having kids shifting isnt a weird response?? ok