r/antiwork • u/SuperFaceTattoo • 2d ago
Rant 😡💢 My boss today said “I don’t respect anyone doesn’t consider this a career”
I got into an argument with my manager today because I have a teammate who hasn’t done the the “progression presentation” that we have to do to be promoted to the next level.
My manager wants the guy to train others, which is not a responsibility at his level but it is at the next level up. So I said that if you want him to train then you need to be prepared to promote him to compensate him for the extra effort. To which my manager said that if he wants the promotion then he has to be already operating at the next level up(without extra pay).
Then my manager proceeded to tell me that “this job is not about the money” and “I don’t hve any respect for someone who doesn’t consider this a career.”
I replied that that’s not reasonable. Everyone works for money. If they didn’t pay me enough I wouldn’t work for them. You cannot ask someone to do extra work for the promise that they might have a better chance of a promotion, especially since he just admitted that he has no respect for any of my team.
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u/OkSector7737 2d ago
If my manager ever said something so batshit insane as "this job is not about the money” I would respond, "The company has a Mental Health Hotline that you can call for 24/7 assistance from a psychiatric nurse. I encourage you to speak to HR about getting assistance for this cognitive situation you appear to be experiencing."
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u/JustmyOpinion444 2d ago
The company ABSOLUTELY is about the money. If it didn't make money, the owners would close it up and start another business that DID make money.
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u/IMM_Austin 1d ago
I never thought about it this way before but this is such a solid counter to that whole attitude.
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u/imthatoneguyyouknew 2d ago
I have a great career. I love what I do. The company i work for is amazing. I would not do this job for free, or for less money. They wouldn't pay me if I didn't add value to the company (thus making them money).
A company is about money in every single aspect. Top to bottom. Full stop.
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u/OkSector7737 1d ago
Exactly. Nobody works (for an employer) for the satisfaction of the work.
If I wanted to work for zero pay, I would just open up my own firm and provide legal services pro bono.
But if I want to get paid consistently for my work, I know that I have to sell my services to insurance companies (because they are the ones who have all the money with which to pay me).
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u/Ok-Economist-9466 1d ago
There's a small exception for this in civil service work. Myself and many of my colleagues know we could make more money if we pimped out to corporate life but choose to make less for the satisfaction of helping the public. Still wouldn't do the job for free though.
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u/OkSector7737 1d ago
Sure, but civil service is just swapping the Government for the Corporation.
A distinction without a difference; everyone still needs and deserves to be paid for the services they provide to the economy, regardless of the public interest involved in the mission itself.
Personally, I've devoted my entire career to helping Workers who were either injured at work, or were mistreated by their employers for some other reason than a work injury. I have always enjoyed litigation, and it has provided me a very stable, rewarding career, but I could not do the work for free.
Some attorneys can, and I applaud them, but I don't know of any lawyers from wealthy families who work as litigators for no compensation.
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u/Ok-Economist-9466 1d ago
I disagree that it's swapping Government for Corporation. Having worked both sides at times in my career, working for an agency where the work is mission-based is a very different thing from working for a company where all work is ultimately aimed towards increasing profits. Of course the people working these jobs deserve to be compensated, but financial reward is rarely a primary motivation. The attorneys, medical professionals, engineers etc. in my department would all be making a lot more with their credentials if they did something that generated a profit instead of something that benefits the public with no profit motive behind it.
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u/OkSector7737 1d ago
Oh, I think it's universal that government work pays less because it doesn't generate revenue for the economy, but rather, functions as overhead.
But I don't think that, for example, the government litigators I know do the job because they are so stoked about "making a difference."
They do the work because it's easier than working in private practice, where there are complex questions at stake and litigators are bound to be blamed for every outcome that the client doesn't like, regardless of how well-founded the outcome is in the law and the facts of the case.
The practice of law is MUCH more satisfying and efficient without lay clients questioning the attorneys' every move. THAT is what makes litigation expensive; clients (particularly, Plaintiffs) wanting to question every little thing.
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u/Analyzer9 2d ago
that's funny, I don't respect managers that expect something for nothing. there is no guarantee you get that promotion, even if you jump through all the hoops. because it's a rigged game, and it's rare that you can outperform nepotism or "I've got a guy that's perfect" insiders. if a manager says something so stops you now know that you cannot ever meet that manager's standards without doing shit exactly his way. that's unfortunate. remember the adage, "people don't quit jobs, they quit bosses."
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u/rmichaeljones at work 2d ago
This boss doesn’t respect the employees that do see it as a career and want promotions either. They’re just easier to manipulate and dangle that carrot in front of.
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u/BadManTaliban 2d ago
Your boss is full of shit. "This job isn't about the money" is what people say right before they refuse to pay you fairly. If they don't respect you enough to compensate you properly, time to update that resume. Nobody works for free.
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u/JustmyOpinion444 2d ago
A career has position and wage progression. Any job that does not, is not a career.
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u/virgilreality 2d ago
You cannot ask someone to do extra work for the promise that they might have a better chance of a promotion, especially since he just admitted that he has no respect for any of my team.
Ummm, no...this is pretty much the unethical cost-savings model most businesses depend on. Capitalizing on goodwill and eagerness, then pocketing the results in one form or another, is a common business technique.
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u/Square-Emergency-531 1d ago
This right here is what all workers need to only look out for #1. If you aren't trying to take advantage of your employer as much as the other way around, you are the fool.
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u/HalfSoul30 2d ago
Careful. Talk like that is going to have you fired for "performance issues" soon enough.
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u/SuperFaceTattoo 1d ago
That’s fine. I’m working on becoming a manager myself because I’m tired of working for idiots. One year to go on my degree and then I’m out of here.
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u/elPocket 2d ago
- if i want a promotion it is feasible for me to be doing the tasks of the next level to show i can perform said tasks and to give me negotiation leverage
- if my boss wants me to regularly perform a specific task beyond my current job description, they very well better promote me or have me on track to be promoted for the position entailing that task.
It's all about who wants what from whom.
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u/Avocado-Basic 2d ago
I would very loudly say “Are you saying I should be working for no money?!! WHY WOULD YOU SAY THAT?! It sounds like you are threatening to withhold my pay!! “Hey Everybody (Bossname) is saying he’s not going to pay us anymore!!! “ I think legally you have to, right? I’m going to call HR and ask if it’s legal for you to threaten me by saying I should not receive my check.”
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u/MuchDevelopment7084 1d ago
Two things.
First. Not everyone wants a promotion. They may be happy at that level. Or just don't want the added responsibility.
Second. The money may not compensate for the added responsibility and time required for the promotion.
To expect an employee to do the work of a higher level without the promotion. Is basically wage theft.
Just to be clear. If my manager told me something like this. I'd be updating my resume.
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u/Independent_After 1d ago
bruh, if someone is operating at "the next level up" WITHOUT a pay increase, there is no WAY they will get a pay increase because "HUuuruUUURUUUHH DDUuuuUUuuuRReerr why would I pay them more when they're already performing this way for their current pay?"
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u/Magnahelix 2d ago
While I do agree with your boss that you have to do the job before you get the job (demonstrate you're capable), I disagree in the strongest of terms that it ain't about the money. It is ONLY about the money.
Also, as a caveat, you only do the job before you get the job when you work for a company, department or manager that's gonna follow through instead of dangling that promotion but never rewarding you. S rew those types of jobs.
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u/GlummyGloom 1d ago
This idea that every company deserves the loyalty of a worker who goes above and beyond at the detriment to themselves is getting wildly out of hand. He said it himself, you have earn that before you can benefit from it, but in this case, he expects the benefit without the detriment. It's hypocritical.
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u/woolfchick75 1d ago
“This job is not about money”. So manager should workout pay.
Edited. Fuck autocorrect
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u/SuperFaceTattoo 1d ago
Its even better because not one month ago he was in here complaining about how first line managers don’t get overtime. At the time I was like halfway feeling bad for him. But now, not at all. Fuck him he gets exactly what he deserves.
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u/that_one_wierd_guy 1d ago
I probably would've shot back with I don't respect anyone who drinks the koolaid. probably would've gone over his head though, people have a short memory
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u/Billthebanger 1d ago
Is your boss a part owner or something. I just don’t get it sometimes be an asshole for nothing.
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u/SuperFaceTattoo 1d ago
Nope, he’s a technician who got promoted to manager and quickly forgot where he came from.
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u/TacticalSpeed13 1d ago
A presentation to get promoted? Fuck that company. It should be based on your work not some bullshit dog and a pony show for their ego
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u/RotundFisherman 1d ago
You don’t need to take these types of statements seriously. Your manager doesn’t actually mean this and he wouldn’t say it if someone was putting these expectations on him.
He is self interested. He wants 1. Free labor and 2. A demonstration of capability before giving someone a raise on the basis of them performing such capability.
That’s all. Move on.
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u/SelfCtrlDelete 1d ago
Operating at the next level is exactly what I did for more than a decade, yet was consistently deprived of the title that came with the responsibility. Eventually I was laid off.
Fuck all these boot-licking middle managers that want something for nothing. 🖕
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u/reijasunshine 1d ago
I turned down the promotion to my current position, twice. It was a job nobody wanted because it was horrible and everyone burned out. The bosses sweetened the deal, and I immediately started working with the IT department to streamline and automate the most tedious parts. Now it's easier and I have less stress than I did in my previous position.
It's absolutely about the money, and not about doing more work than necessary. It's a job, not a lifestyle.
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u/Aprilmay19 1d ago
Shouldn’t it be up to your coworker to decide? Mind your own business!
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u/SuperFaceTattoo 1d ago
Sure. And when the boss gets away with making half the team do extra work for free, suddenly it won’t be considered extra, it will become expected of everyone. You should look up scope creep.
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u/whateverhk 2d ago edited 2d ago
Well you need to prove somehow that you're worth promoting no? How are you going to find out if someone will do a good job at a higher level if they don't show some hints of wanting to progress and/or that they would perform well at the next level?
Take initiative, show can take some new responsibilities, get extra training necessary for the post you want,... That's how you show you want and can progress. However if after all these efforts you cannot get promoted then it's time to move back to do your job description as well as look for a new place where your ambitions could be realised.
Edit: I'm not saying you need to do whatever they ask, I'm saying you need to show what you're capable of and at the same be capable of stepping back/leave if they take advantage of you.
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u/bneff08 2d ago
OK I'll bite.. How long should this person keep doing extra stuff if the boss isn't interested in promoting? Your final solution is to quit? Do you think bosses like job hoppers looking for the right salary/boss?
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u/whateverhk 2d ago
That really depends of the situation, of the job, the economy,... I mean if you're in retail its not the same than in a bank. So I think they need to find their limit and also be frank with their boss like "I'm willing to do this because I have ambition to move in my career with you". If they do nothing to help or there's no hope of promotion after 6 or 12 months then either step back or find a different place. Is that so crazy? I don't know why people don't understand that promotion is a meritocracy not a seniority thing.
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u/bneff08 2d ago
You're preaching to the choir here. But I thought the same thing and I've been out of a job since August. Bosses don't like it if you try to leave at all. Then you're blacklisted for job hopping. Promotion is meritocracy but that's not how it works anymore. Businesses have a vested interest in you doing more work for less pay and to string you along as long as they can and then fill you position with another schmuck who they can abuse for another 6 to 12 months before THEY quit and they have to replace them.. What you're saying isn't crazy, just outdated.
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u/Square-Emergency-531 1d ago
This is the fundamental problem. Very few companies do real promotions internally these days, but every single one will string you along. They will give you more work at every opportunity while saying that instead of paying you in money they are paying you in opportunity. It is exactly the same as people who try to pay photographers with exposure, it is a con.
Under the previous social contract where promotions were real, this kind of thing can at least be argued for. In our neoliberal present, it is only a way to gaslight labor to extract more.
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u/whateverhk 1d ago
I guess different countries also have different cultures. I try not job hopping too much, 2 years is a minimum of i can make it because it does raise questions(I've had short stints too). Not sure about blacklisted though, that never was an issue for me.
If you're doing very low level job then obviously you can be replaced, but that's also why you want to take more responsibility, make a name for yourself and become the go to person. Less chance to be replaced like that. Worst case scenario you're learning new stuff and sell it in your next interview.
I don't feel that my vision is so outdated, maybe I was lucky to find places where I could climb and make myself hard to replace. It certainly pay to do your homework and know the company culture before signing.
Good luck for your search, I've been there it's not funny at all.
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u/bneff08 1d ago
I was making $90k as a Systems Admin. I was the only IT at the company.
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u/whateverhk 1d ago
How did they fired the only system admin? Did they entirely outsourced tour role? That really sucks. I won't deny luck is also a huge factor
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u/anneofred 2d ago
Also I really hate the idea that everyone should want a promotion. Not everyone wants to be a leader! It’s so weird to me that to be seen to have value as a worker you HAVE to want to be I leadership! Many people don’t want the extra burden.
In your case, one should always leave a job that says it should t be amount money to you. Red flag that they will fully fuck you over pay wise at any chance they get