r/csMajors • u/Outrageous_World_868 • 2d ago
Not everybody is supposed to fOlLoW tHe PaSsIoN
Some people have no passion at all. Some people change their passions every year. Some people have obviously unemployable passions. This is the majority of people.
What are these people supposed to do according to passiontards? To kill themselves?
There is nothing wrong with choosing a degree or training pragmatically. This is in fact the only feasible option for most people.
CS degree is no longer employable but this was NOT obvious this would happen when the job market was still good.
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u/Minimum-Attitude389 2d ago
Most CS (and STEM, Engineering in particular) majors are NOT passionate about their majors, they don't even like the subject.Ā They hate it, but do it because they think it will lead to a high paying job.Ā The number of times I've heard "I want to be an engineering, but I hate math.Ā I failed algebra in high school." is too dammed high, especially considering I'm not even at an engineering school anymore.Ā Thankfully most of them change majors after falling Calc 1 and 2 a combined 4 times.
You don't need passion, but you should at least like the material in your major.
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u/Ok_Panic8003 1d ago edited 1d ago
I agree the last few generations have increasingly viewed higher education as a transactional system where you exchange time and money for higher paying jobs (while doing your best to learn absolutely nothing outside of professional skills and even putting in the bare minimum of effort for those). It was never supposed to be that and the faster employment trends change the more going into university chasing a trend is a disastrously bad decision.Ā
You should go into university studying something that interests you, not necessarily something that you are "passionate" about. That way you engage honestly with the material and actually learn a lot more and expand your mind and horizons, find some employable skills (or a path to employable skills), and maybe even actually discover some passion along the way.Ā
If you aren't actually interested in or good at any higher ed subject then you didn't belong at university (50+ years ago someone with this attitude wouldn't have gotten anywhere near a university) and should have just done trade school or one of the many professional programs available at two year colleges. Lower ceiling on potential earning power but also lower risk and an easy path to employment.
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u/Nintendo_Pro_03 Ban Leetcode from interviews!!!! 1d ago
What are people that are interested in what they study supposed to do after college?
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u/EasyLowHangingFruit 1d ago
Poverty ain't a joke! I rather shove math in my ass than living from food stamps! I'm not gonna like flipping burgers either...
If you're poor and a bit smart, you could study CS and have a slim chance at life. Thinking that way isn't mediocrity. Mediocrity is staying poor working 12hr shifts at Walmart, when you could've done better.
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u/Minimum-Attitude389 1d ago
That's true, sometimes people need to just do the math. But there are other options. Yes, STEM degrees often have the highest pay. But you don't need to go for the highest pay all the time. Especially coming from a background of having to work at Walmart or flipping burgers, having a job that pays $65k/year (outside some states and cities) while being happy is a HUGE improvement.
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u/EasyLowHangingFruit 1d ago
Being "happy" is a very fragile state. 65k won't suffice if you have a major illness, or if you have to take care of an elderly parent or relative, or any other major expense that life might throw at you.
I rather get paid as much as I possibly can, so I can build a stable platform for me and my family. And a well endowed emergency fund for times of crisis and uncertainty.
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u/No-Development7272 Freshman 1d ago
Is ālikingā math supposed to determine how passionate someone is about CS? Why would I like calculus or my math classes? I do them ofc, and I appreciate that they help build problem solving skills, but Iām not jumping for joy when my professor announces an exam lol. I get that a lot of people pick this major because of the money. But math doesnāt define passion for CS at all. I donāt like math, but Iāll get through the required classes because I want the degree. Earning the degree is just a step I need to take so that I can work in the areas of CS that I genuinely enjoy.
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u/Bunstrous 1d ago
Math is an incredibly important part of computer science but also at the same time, so much of software engineering and whatnot just simply doesn't require an active investment in math concepts to create and do fun and cool things.
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u/_LordDaut_ 1d ago
People here think Computer science == Software Engineering.
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u/Bunstrous 1d ago
It's not really their fault either, a lot of things conflate to two as well, my degree being one of them. It was called a computer science degree but as one of my teachers and the head of the department said, "we're giving you a CS degree but almost all of the course work you're doing is software engineering". And that was true, maybe 1/8th of the classes I took were actually focusing on computer science concepts as opposed to just software engineering.
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u/Minimum-Attitude389 1d ago
Math is more than Calculus. There is plenty of math in CS, but I was talking more about the civil engineering majors who hate all math, especially calculus. There doesn't seem to be a lot of calculus in CS (until ML).
But I am also talking about the CS majors who seem to hate every CS class they take. At that point, I wonder why they are CS majors and it's mainly because "I can get a job that pays a lot of money" That's the problem I was mentioning with STEM majors, they want the high pay but they hate the material.
If someone picks a major because the pay is good and they are unable to master the material and genuinely hate it, they usually won't do well. And then when they graduate, they're going to be miserable at their job.
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u/Nintendo_Pro_03 Ban Leetcode from interviews!!!! 1d ago
I absolutely do! Web development and game development are fun! AI was also very interesting.
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u/Minimum-Attitude389 1d ago
I enjoyed Data Structures and ML a lot more than expected.Ā Those fit in with how I think of things a lot more, and Data Structures answered a question I had for years.Ā Ā
I would like to try some actual game development sometime, because there's a lot of balls to juggle and that's when I do good work usually.Ā Math background, I can make rules and order out of insanity.Ā But I'm still learning the CS stuff, although somewhat slowly.
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u/Substantial-Owl6711 34m ago
What are you doing now that you quit engineering school? Iām strongly considering getting into it but mostly for the reasons you laid out, you can find it in my previous post.
I struggled to find an electrical apprenticeship no matter what process I took, Iāve since considered trying hard and enrol in engineering.
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u/codeisprose 2d ago
CS degree is still employable unless you don't care at all, which is why people mention passion. If people expected the industry to perpetually remain in a state which allows mediocre new grads ro make 6 figures working from home while being clueless, they were mistaken. This field pays what it does for a reason and evolves quickly, it's incredibly difficult to keep up if you're uninterested.
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u/travishummel 2d ago
I have sooo much passion.
Passion for money. Passion for trolling people. Passion for pretending to care. Passion for not working. Passion forā¦ I meanā¦ I can go on
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u/Armet193112 15h ago
Ah, the Renaissance person of modern times! Truly a master of diverse passions.
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u/voyaging 2d ago
CS degree is no longer employable
Lmao literally one of the most employable degrees
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u/Difficult-Jello2534 1d ago edited 1d ago
Im not even in CS but I'd argue that if we are talking under 5 years of experience. Your evidence?
Edit: among younger CS grads they have the highest unemployment rate of any bachelor's.
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u/XChromaX 1d ago
Do we have to keep having the same conversations
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u/RazzmatazzWorth6438 1d ago
I don't even understand the point of this sub, it's literally the same 5 people doomposting about how they're unemployed (and it's the industry's fault)
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u/hpela_ 15h ago
It's always people like OP. Look at their post history. Their entire existence is doom posting and complaining in CS subs like this.
I get it, it's a difficult major and a difficult industry with many quirks. I get it, you can be successful without passion. But... if you have an issue with literally all of these aspects and more, why even bother with it? Pursue something else at that point. Yes, not everyone has the luxury of complete freedom to choose their path, but absolutely nothing is forcing these people to pursue CS. u/Outrageous_World_868
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u/Outrageous_World_868 7h ago edited 7h ago
Doomsposting is the only thing I use reddit for. But I don't post that much. I post like 3-4 posts a week.
What am I supposed to do instead of CS? I don't want to live with my parents and go to school until I am 35. I don't want to spend my whole life getting new degrees in a collapsing job market over and over again. Moreover, programming is one of the few things I don't think I would hate to do for life. I don't know anything about anything else. Changing occupation is easier said than done.
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u/Outrageous_World_868 6h ago
For real, what am I supposed to do? To die in the Middle East? š¤£ To work a back-breaking menial job with no quality free time? You first.
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u/JustTryinToLearn 1d ago
The whole āfind your passionā ādo what you loveā etc quips are for people who are privileged enough to not have money be a priority in their job choice.
Ive known many people who āfollowed their passionā to just quit a few years later and pivot into a new career because they need more money.
I personally have no qualms with people who choose a career path purely because of the money. Just because someone isnāt passionate about their field doesnāt mean they shouldnāt pursue it
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u/STINEPUNCAKE 2d ago
Passion != success But also Bitching != success
Statistics disagree with your opinion that CS degrees are no longer employable. (maybe certain job opportunities arenāt as available)
Statistics are also starting to say degrees donāt matter as much.
If you can make your passion profitable great but donāt ruin your life trying to do it.
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u/SwagarMaster 2d ago
what does the statisticsĀ say about the job market because each time im on this sub its either doomposting or saying its all sunshine and rainbows
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u/ToThePillory 2d ago
Sure, not everybody is passionate about CS, but I think this is one of those professions where a lack of enthusiasm is a problem more than most. You don't have to be passionate about plumbing to be a good plumber, but you probably *do* have to at least *like* programming to remain good at it.
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u/VitaminOverload 1d ago edited 1d ago
One of the biggest lies computer scientists tell themselves is that their job is oh so different to other jobs.
Yes you do have to at least like your job or some aspect of your job to be good at it. No matter the job. I suppose you can just grind your way through it with pure discipline, but again this goes for all jobs.
I have seen old tradies who don't like their work anymore but they still want to deliver a good product, I would be insanely surprised if they did not at least like some aspect of the job xy years ago.
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u/ToThePillory 1d ago
I'm not a computer scientist, I'm a software developer.
I don't think it's oh-so-different to other jobs, I'm saying it's different from *some* jobs.
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u/Outrageous_World_868 2d ago
The reason why you need to be passionate is oversaturation. If this job market was not oversaturated, it would be easy to survive without passion.
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u/Factitious_Character 2d ago
You could say the same for any job, but it doesnt change the fact that you need to be passionate about it.
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u/Ken_Mcnutt 2d ago
great, you've described every competitive industry ever lol.
if I packed up and moved to L.A. saying "hmm maybe acting is a good way to pay the bills", I'm going to get stomped out by everyone there who lives and breathes acting... Why should it be any different?
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u/shivam_rtf 1d ago
I donāt think the plumber comparison is fair, in any trade being passionate about the craft is what separates the tradesmen who do half assed work to people who continuously put out great work and maintain loyal clients.Ā
The only difference is the rate at which new information and domain progress comes about. Programmers have to face new technologies and constantly shifting paradigms with all kinds of things to learn to stay on the ball. To stay on top of things you need to be learning beyond your day job. Itās just a different manifestation of that āpassionā. Though arguably, you can also just be passionate about being more successful and let that transitively drive you to become a better programmer, not because you care too much about programming, but because you want success.
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u/Seefufiat 1d ago
Obsession beats talent. As long as you donāt find the field dead boring, if you enjoy it enough to work harder than others you will have a shot. There are plenty of passionate people who love CS and are not naturally inclined to the ideas, and there are plenty of people naturally inclined to the ideas who hate the field or arenāt focused on it.
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u/2manyoptionz 1d ago
On the other hand here I am with my bachelor's degree in CS. I hate this subject so much. I wish I did maths or physics instead, I followed this degree because reddit told me there are many physics and math majors who just work as programmers because it pays better. I just started a masters degree because I dont wanna work in front of the computer for this shi yet and feel like i've wasted my life learning the wrong thing. I'm expected to do side projects at home in my free time??? Why would I wanna come back from work or lectures after listening to cs bullshi the whole day and still code at home? WTF
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u/Outrageous_World_868 7h ago
Ā Why would I wanna come back from work or lectures after listening to cs bullshi the whole day and still code at home? WTF
I like the degree but I still agree. I would rather do my hobbies or watch a cartoon or go for a walk than learn a new buzzword framework.
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u/clingrs 1d ago
You should read the book ā So Good they canāt ignore youā, it talks a lot about how most people donāt have passions and passion comes from becoming good at something which in return grants you great job capital which you can trade in for more money, control and just good job satisfactory which all stems from you picking something and becoming good at it. Not the mythical passion idea
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u/Think-notlikedasheep 1d ago
Not all passions can be monetizable.
I wanna lay on the beach getting a suntain, who's going to pay me $100K a year to do that?
I wanna go for a walk in the neighborhood. Who's gonna pay me $100k a year to do that?
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u/Nintendo_Pro_03 Ban Leetcode from interviews!!!! 1d ago
Thatās a great idea. We need jobs like that. š¤£
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u/veniu10 1d ago
Well if you're competent at CS, then no one cares if you're not passionate. But a lot of people aren't competent, and they actively despise CS. They don't get a job and they constantly complain. At that point, it's on them for choosing to do something that they hate and aren't talented in.
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u/OliveTimely 1d ago
All the best software engineers I know are passionate about their work. They are the type of people to spend their free time reading programming books, reading research papers, building side projects, and walking YouTube videos on topics. I think thatās what people mean by passion. Sure some people arenāt passionate about cs but the ones that are donāt burn out and spend many more hours learning than the average person
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u/Outrageous_World_868 7h ago
I don't want to be the best. I don't see myself as the new Bill Gates. I just want a job. Don't give a shit about anything.Ā
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u/CuriousWolf7077 1d ago
Most cs majors who come out of it suck.
I've interviewed them and they just use Chatgpt to answer it or make code without knowing fundamentals.
Passion is what I look for because it inspires curiosity and helps build great things.
If you come and just say. I can code in this stack and I went to this school and do my homework.
Like cool dude. We all did that. But what have YOU personally done on your own time to learn and apply said skills.
9 times out of 10 (silence)
Ill gatekeep my position. I don't care.
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u/sja-gfl Senior 2d ago
Like who tf is passionate about 0s and 1s if it wasn't paying 6 figures let's be fr
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u/Ken_Mcnutt 2d ago
I'd be running my own homelab, spinning up services, and coding shit even if I didn't see a single dime...
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u/Factitious_Character 2d ago
Im sure many people legitimately find it interesting even without the high salary.
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u/under_cover_45 2d ago
Passion =/= interested tho. Like a lot of people may find their careers interesting and engaging but it's not really their passion or life's goal to work the job. Like I certainly find respect for my field and it's cool but I'd rather work a field in my hobbies if it was at all possible for the same pay and career progression (which is basically not really possible).
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u/UnderstandingIcy8394 2d ago
cs isnt just 0s and 1s , a lot of people are passionate about game dev for example
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u/Background_Hat6603 Salaryman 1d ago
I mean they are supposed to pick a major with job security and good money. Itās always something with licensing. But people also want easy and lazy, which is what they followed and now we are here.
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u/Outrageous_World_868 7h ago
I don't want "easy" (well I want but this is not a big deal for me), I want achievableĀ
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u/dark180 1d ago
The reason why I prescribe passion for cs is due to the fact of how fast the field is changing/evolving. What this means is that you will constantly have to tackle problems you have never faced before, and you will have to keep learning things in order to stay relevant. On top of that most companies donāt care about peopleās growth, so u less you take it under your own hands you could be left behind
The amount of post I have read of people that got too comfortable and didnāt learn new things for years and suddenly found themselves unemployable is really sad.
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u/csanon212 1d ago
Passion is a bad thing to have if you don't also have the skills.
You see people who are PIPed out of companies all the time who have been passionate about computers since they were a teenager, did good in school, felt like they sacrificed years of their life. They grinded LeetCode, worked 50-60 hour weeks, only to get hit by the politics of companies forcing managers to cut 10-20% of their directs every year. Then, they are unemployed and because they're too far out of school but not yet 'experienced' they are stuck. They can't even apply for McDonald's unless they dumb down their resume and omit their degree. They can't go into tech sales because they don't have sales experience. Some people absolutely have mental breakdowns because the only thing they are passionate about is the one thing they can't be paid to do, and they have no transferable skills.
A better approach if you have an early passion for CS is to do it as a hobby and go into pre-med instead. You can get tech internships while in college. If you get accepted to medical school, you can take a deferral up to 2 years. If tech is hot, you can go full time to that. If it's a bad economy, go the medical route. Lots of doctors retire early and you can do CS as your full time hobby / business at 45.
Doctors are also an S-tier profession because they are not subject to the same bullshit stack ranking that tech employees go through. As a doctor, you don't get fired if you did 150 knee replacements a year, and your colleagues did 160. You have medical malpractice insurance. As a tech employee, you can't buy insurance against the politics of stack ranking.
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u/Ok_Student_740 1d ago
In healthcare and a ton negative can be said about being in it. Itās terrible. Having said that being a physician has to be the closest to a fuck you position without having fuck you money that the average person can hope for.
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u/tacomonday12 1d ago
You don't have to be passionate about CS to make a living. But the median US salary is 60k, median entry level salary is even lower. So unless you are passionate about CS to the point of learning highly difficult things for fun, your expectation of entry level salary should be in that range instead of the 80k-100k even below average coders in this sub want at any cost.
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u/Ariose_Aristocrat 2d ago
If you're not passionate about your major then you need to choose a business degree.
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u/Outrageous_World_868 2d ago
The most dumbfucking degree ever. I have more respect for and would rather do gender studies.
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u/Ariose_Aristocrat 2d ago
You can't bitch about employability and then say you want to do gender studies. Looks like somebody's following their passion!
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u/Outrageous_World_868 2d ago
Business degree is useless garbage. You can get a business admin role with any degree. Gender studies has some content to it at least.
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u/RazzmatazzWorth6438 1d ago
Then shut up and go get your business admin role with your comp sci degree...
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u/Ariose_Aristocrat 2d ago
If you're applying to a business admin job would you rather have a gender studies degree or a business degree?
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u/LeastInsaneBronyaFan 2d ago
I just spent 3 hours making a matmul code that goes from e+11 flop/s to e+12 flop/s with architecture specific optimizations. Most people who just put the fry in the bag would be happy at e+11, but people who knows about computers and wanting to squeeze every ounce of it knows e+12 is the gold number.
My c++ matmul code is now comparable to PyTorch speed wise.
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u/Minimum-Attitude389 2d ago
Enjoyed the perflab?
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u/LeastInsaneBronyaFan 2d ago
Ah, no. I just experimented with perf libraries since I never tried those + porting a Python code.Ā
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u/GuessEnvironmental 2d ago
Honestly KUDOs to you I love C++ but my team would just tell me refactor everything in python using pytorch unless the peformance is considerably better. I am curious of how this came about?
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u/LeastInsaneBronyaFan 1d ago
The performance is 0.985x of pytorch. It was compared to PyTorch code so I know.Ā
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u/slayer965 2d ago
I barely had passion, my passion was money. I got a degree, and was lucky enough to get a job since I graduated 2022, and started 2019, at the height of the pandemic and boom. So definitely passion is != success. Also people talking about statistics, they are failing to account for the H1bs and student visas who are now getting alot of them jobs amd internships for free. Before anyone jumps to defend those dumbasses, im seeing the thing with my own eyes lamao.
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u/Organic_Midnight1999 2d ago
Bro itās 2025, most 3rd years started in 2021/2022 - it was pretty fall obvious at that point. And even more so in 2023, etc.
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u/PM_THOSE_LEGS 1d ago
Mate the field is littered with people that clock in at 9 and leave at 4. Work 3 hours, and still use Visual Basic. Or even VBA.
But they are not in MAANG, they are in manufacturing, they are in specialized retailers, they are niche b2b products (have you heard of FANUC the company?).
The passionless are not on reddit, they have a life, they use the same language and frameworks for 20 years. There is no code review, no CI/DI. In some you push to production.
They live in a flyover state, earn 80-100k a year, and have never heard of docker.
This is every field btw. That same office has an accountant that does not want to grind for the big 4.
It has an HR manager that is not shit posting in linkedin success stories.
It has a mechanical engineer that would not want to grind for NASA.
This office is everywhere, is unremarkable, and it employs the majority of blue collar workers.