r/cscareerquestions • u/guineverefira • 2d ago
Which offer/tech stack? Need to decide soon any help VERY appreciated
I’m trying to decide between two full-time software engineering roles and would love your input! Both in Austin.
Wanted to give some insights on the work:
Apple: The role is on the Identity Management Services team in IS&T. Tech stack includes Java EE (JSP, Servlets, Core Java, EJB) and Oracle DB. It's more traditional enterprise software, and I’d be working on internal applications.
Visa: I'd be working on developer tooling and cloud automation (I think…or something to do with Cloud). The tech stack here uses Angular, Spring Boot.
Apple pays 135k, 15k bonus, 94k rsu over 4 years.
Visa pays 98k, 20k bonus, 20k stock over 3 years.
Everyone I have asked has said take Apple...but even with the org being IS&T which has a bad rep? And the tech stack being somewhat older?
9
u/olddev-jobhunt Software Engineer 2d ago
Apple. Firstly, because it looks like way more money. Isn't that like $158k annual TC from Apple versus $105k TC from Visa? Assuming the stock price is stable (which, of course, this last week disproves.)
And secondly for the brand recognition. And the team at Visa is still working in Java, so it's not like there's that big a difference there. I don't know anything about that org's reputation at Apple, but unless they have a reputation for grind, burnout, toxicity, and terrible on-call, then I'd go for it. Heck, I might go for it even with burnout and bad WLB for a year of that much more money and that on my resume.
But generally speaking, no one knows anything about the different orgs within companies - they just know the companies. And Apple is bigger than Visa in that regard.
-2
u/guineverefira 2d ago
The org does have a rep for the things you mentioned, but hopefully that doesn’t matter to future recruiters and having it on my resume still opens doors! Thanks for your insight :)
5
u/Joaaayknows 2d ago
I’m sure you could do an internal transfer (or leave) without issue after 18 months or 2 years. 70k more in RSUs and 30k more total comp a year at the same cost of living, plus one of the best names you could ever have on your resume?
Take Apple.
0
u/guineverefira 2d ago
Apparently all of Apple looks down on this org which makes internal transfers impossible…but thank you!
2
u/Joaaayknows 2d ago
I very seriously doubt that.
-1
u/guineverefira 2d ago
If you look on blind you’ll see the unanimous hatred towards this org 😭
2
u/rorogadget 2d ago
I worked for IS&T for my internship and got an interview anywhere I went afterwards. This was 15 years ago though.
Also was offered a transfer internally.
IS&T is where a lot of contractors exist for some of the non essential software dev, and so some contractors may try to transfer and face obstacles as it is a higher barrier.
1
u/guineverefira 2d ago
Ohh so maybe it’s just harder for contractors..i’m glad to see that it opened doors for you though!
0
u/guineverefira 2d ago
https://www.quora.com/How-is-the-work-culture-at-the-IS-T-division-of-Apple
What about this? Just ignore it?
2
u/reboog711 New Grad - 1997 2d ago
You know who won't look down on that org? Other employers! They'll see you worked for apple, and tech you worked with, and give you a fair shot at interviewing. Maybe you jump ship in 2-5 years after some experience behind you.
Unless your long term desire is to learn about front end code, there is no reason to consider VISA. I love Angular, but for this TC differential, I'd be fine leaving it behind.
1
1
u/One_Cod6635 2d ago
You’re overthinking this OP
0
u/guineverefira 2d ago
Maybe I am haha…I just need to stop thinking about all the stuff I read about this org that’s scaring me…I am ambitious and want what betters my career but I also want to protect my mental health 😅😭
1
u/One_Cod6635 2d ago
I definitely get your worry about joining a “bad” org. The thing is there’s no guarantee you’d have a great manager/team, great WLB, and interesting work at Visa either - those things are hit and miss at every company. Apple is not Amazon or C1, you have nothing to fear.
Apple on your resume and a difference of 50k TC. It’s a no brainer.
1
3
u/-Godly Software Engineer 2YOE 2d ago
🍎
-1
u/guineverefira 2d ago
tech stack still relevant tho? is&t not as bad as ppl say?
2
u/CarbonNanotubes FAANG 2d ago
Tech stack isn't important, good SWEs should be able to quickly adapt to whatever the product needs.
1
3
u/jawohlmeinherr Infra@Meta 2d ago
ur dumb if you don't take apple, the brand name alone will take you places in your career, either other brand names, or cool teams that work on cool stuff
1
u/guineverefira 2d ago
thanks, just wanted to make sure it’ll still take me places even if it’s an old tech stack and the IS&T org
0
u/guineverefira 2d ago
cause i’ve heard people say is&t isn’t even considered a real part of Apple…which concerns me
2
u/UsuallyBuzzed 2d ago
You're right about that Apple tech stack, and identity management isn't the most exciting domain. That stack hasn't been used by new projects in over 10 years. It's still Java, of course, which is good, and a lot of J2EE concepts are similar to a modern Spring app, but you'll want to keep your Spring knowledge current on your own if it's not being used. Plus, SQL is SQL (mostly) even though most new projects will use Postgres or anything other than Oracle. You'll be just fine having Java, SQL, and Apple on your resume. And I doubt very much that internal transfers are impossible for a young go-getter who hasn't been wasting away in a "lesser" department for a long time.
The pay seals it. Apple is a no-brainer, IMO. Cloud automation may not even be a lot of programming. Could be a lot of things like Terraform, Cloudformation, GitHub actions, home-grown tools, etc.
1
u/guineverefira 2d ago
Ah I see, so you’re saying Oracle etc doesn’t necessarily look bad or limit my options down the line? Also, how would you best recommend keeping spring etc skills and learning other relevant technologies on the side without overwhelming myself?
1
u/UsuallyBuzzed 2d ago
No, Oracle is fine. If you're using Java EE, you should also be using an ORM. At that level of abstraction the implementation of your relational DB makes almost no difference. No hiring manager with a clue would care which relational DB you're proficient in unless they are using some DB specific features, but most don't. Oracle is honestly a very good DB. It's the licensing and the company that is a problem.
It's not a popular opinion here, but when I was young and still cared about my skillset, I always had a fun side project i worked on. My only goal was to use whatever I wanted to learn and to spend X hours a week doing it. Just a few hours a week is all it takes to learn something new or keep a skill current. Doesn't matter what it is as long as putting in a few hours doesn't seem too much like work. When new major releases of frameworks or Java come out, read some blogs to understand the new features. Make sure you can speak intelligently about them and know when they might be useful.
1
u/guineverefira 2d ago
Thanks! Do you also recommended Udemy?
1
u/UsuallyBuzzed 2d ago
Too much like work for me, but whatever works for you. You'll have access to paid Udemy or something similar wherever you work. Your manager will probably let you do some courses on the company's time if you agree on a development plan.
2
u/whoopsservererror 2d ago
I've worked at two companies that, from the outside, I was told "this is the worst company to work for" and "this will ruin your career if you take the job." Both were great jobs with great people.
Tech stack as an entry level engineer is irrelevant. I've worked in 4-5 different stacks in 5 years. I'm sure I'll work in some more as time goes on. As an entry level engineer you want to take the most long-term valuable job. Outside of the obvious compensation, Apple will put a brand name on your resume that will pay dividends for years.
Getting the next job will be 10x easier coming from Apple than Visa.
1
1
u/One_Cod6635 2d ago
Too much of a pay gap to not go with Apple.
0
u/guineverefira 2d ago
Career growth and opportunires is more important to me right now than pay
1
u/One_Cod6635 2d ago
You can grow at Apple lol.. what better place than there. Java is not an outdated language. Visa stack is Angular/Spring Boot so that’s Java as well.
How many posts about this are you going to make? 😂 Go with Apple, don’t mess this up.
1
u/guineverefira 2d ago
sorry i’m making so many posts so i don’t mess it up 🤣 you guys are some of the only ppl i have for advice
1
1
u/fragrant_ginger 2d ago
Apple and it isn't even close. Pays more + is a top tech name. Recruiters will be head hunting you with apple on your resume
1
1
u/guineverefira 2d ago
https://www.quora.com/How-is-the-work-culture-at-the-IS-T-division-of-Apple
What about this? Just ignore it?
1
u/Wblegend 2d ago
Ok seriously? At this point I’d say you don’t deserve or want the Apple offer. This is the second time you’ve posted this and it always seems like you really want to go to Visa. Seriously, it’d be stupid not to take Apple. I did intern there a long time ago on one of the smaller non core product teams. People there are pretty smart and it’s quite a few tiers above Visa.
1
u/guineverefira 2d ago
Sorry I just want to be extra sure and get some encouragement to help my imposter syndrome 😭 Thank you for your insight and I am really grateful for the offer
0
u/kevinossia Senior Wizard - AR/VR | C++ 2d ago
Based on your description it seems like two different roles with one being more traditional software engineering and the other being an automation role.
So which one of those do you actually want to do?
1
u/guineverefira 2d ago
Nah I think they’re both like typical swe…
0
u/kevinossia Senior Wizard - AR/VR | C++ 2d ago
Then I'd probably lean towards the Apple offer as well.
1
31
u/AniviaKid32 2d ago
Bruh. Stop over complicating it and take Apple. Some org's rep doesn't matter this early in your career. You don't know how your manager or teammates are gonna be at either company so at least make a good decision with the one variable you have control of.