r/electricvehicles • u/deppaotoko • 12h ago
News Toyota to increase EV models to 15, diversifying production to 5 countries
https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Automobiles/Toyota-to-increase-EV-models-to-15-diversifying-production-to-5-countries80
u/cwatson214 2013 Volt 11h ago
They should have started this initiative 15 years ago...
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u/GrynaiTaip 3h ago
Toyota doesn't do groundbreaking innovation, reliability is their signature feature. They release somewhat older, outdated stuff but then it outlasts everyone else.
15 years ago EVs were in their infancy, unreliable, weird, boring. Now the market is starting to mature, so Toyota is ready to jump in.
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u/Terrh 6h ago
Toyota started selling electrified and electric vehicles in 1997.
That's 28 years ago.
15 years ago toyota was selling rav4 EV's and funding Tesla production.
Toyota moves slow but you can't say they didn't start trying to do electric things a long time ago... They decided that hybrids were a much better solution for mass produced affordable cars until recently. And they were right.
Hell, my 2014 EV that cost $160,000 CAD (so not affordable) is barely acceptable as a car for highway trips, and if you aren't extremely patient it's hard to justify taking it far over a gas car in terms of practicality. And when it was new it would've been much harder since charging infrastructure hardly existed at that time.
Your flair says you've got a 2013 volt... Many here scoff at that because it's a hybrid but I'd take your volt on a road trip over my Model S any day of the week. Might cost a little more but sitting around charging for an hour sucks.
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u/cwatson214 2013 Volt 6h ago
I simply stated Toyota should have electrified their fleet 15 years ago. Toyota fought against electrification for years and are only now getting real.
My Volt is an EREV, which is the best of the hybrids. Welcome to the fold (or fuck off)
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u/Recoil42 1996 Tyco R/C 2h ago
I simply stated Toyota should have electrified their fleet 15 years ago.
They did. The RAV4 and Camry were both electrified around 2010, and make up the bulk of Toyota's sales. The RAV4 even received multiple BEV and PHEV releases. This happened alongside the Prius evolution, and year by year releases in every other segment. Toyota's been able to measure the demand for their electrified vehicles this entire time.
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u/kevinalexpham 4h ago
They are still right about hybrids in most areas of the country. Gas is dirt cheap and charging my EV is a PITA when half the stations in the city have their cords cut and stripped of copper.
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u/CelerMortis 3h ago
Charging infrastructure is still way behind in the US but BEV is suitable for the vast majority of homeowners, because most people drive 50 miles a day or something - perfect for modern EVs
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u/raptor3x 1h ago
This is pretty contrary to how people actually make purchasing decisions though, especially in regard to vehicles. People tend to buy based on the extremes. You base your decisions around the 1 or 2 times a year you might have to drive up to a ski resort in a snowstorm or when you have to haul plywood sheets once every few years. The reality is most people would actually be perfectly happy in the original BZ4X 95% of the time, but almost nobody buys a vehicle that way.
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u/CelerMortis 1h ago
People are fooled by marketing, we need to reverse this trend too. It’s straight up terrible that men are constantly told they’re weak for having a small car
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u/MrClickstoomuch 2h ago
Absolutely, but at that point, if batteries are limited, seems like PHEVs with 50 mile EV range would be better than full BEV from a battery allocation perspective. Problem is, only way you will get mass adoption and use is proper regulation to allow home charging or street side charging plus tighter emissions regulations where all vehicles must be electrified with a minimum usable range.
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u/mythrilcrafter 3h ago
Yup, personally, that's why I've got my eye out for the upcoming Honda Prelude Hybrid.
I not 100% ready to go full BEV yet (and neither is my area), but I am 100% down for an HEV, and I really like the look of the new Prelude (I'm excited by the idea of seeing it next to my dad's 1989 Prelude SI-4WS).
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u/reddit455 2h ago
15 years ago...
took them the same amount of time to enter the US car market.. after the atomic bombs were dropped.
people forget how BIG Toyota is.. and how many kinds of vehicles they make that joe public will never ever buy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Material_Handling
Toyota Material Handling, Inc. (TMH), also referred to as Toyota Forklift, is an American manufacturer and distributor of forklifts and tow tractors that is based in Columbus, Indiana. TMHU also is the sole United States distributor for Aichi aerial work platforms, which include scissor lifts, crawler and wheeled boom lifts. TMHU is a subsidiary of Toyota Industries Corporation. Toyota has been the number one lift truck supplier in North America since 2002
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u/mikeyP-619 8h ago
I will believe it when I see it. If it turns out to be true, which I doubt, I will steer clear of them because of their hostility to EVs.
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u/Bokbreath 11h ago
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u/raptor3x 6h ago
God this one is some shitty journalism. They're donating to every politician in states where they have major factories and/or research centers. You know what's not on that list? Toyota donating to a single climate denier who is not in a state they don't have some vested interest.
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u/gottatrusttheengr 5h ago
Well they also have been muddying the water for years by pushing hydrogen FCEVs as "clean" and labeling hybrids as EVs
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u/Recoil42 1996 Tyco R/C 3h ago
- Hydrogen FCEVs are clean. They're ZEVs, by every definition of the word. They're considered ZEVs by every single major government on the planet, and capable of zero-emissions operations.
- No automaker is selling hybrids as if they're pure EVs. They're often labelled electrified, which is a proper label to describe them — hybrids are indeed an electrification step towards pure EVs. Again, this is a common framing outside of Toyota, used by multiple world governments and automakers. China's 'NEV' category explicitly includes PHEVs, as does California's CARB ACCII regulations. (In fact, California puts them under the umbrella of ZEVs.)
The only muddying of the waters here is on your end. None of Toyota's communications regarding FCEVS and hybrids are out-of-step with the rest of the industry or with major regulatory bodies. Hybrids are electrified, and FCEVs are considered ZEVs globally.
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u/gottatrusttheengr 3h ago
https://carboncopy.info/corporate-watchdog-accuses-toyota-of-misleading-marketing-greenwashing/
Toyota engaged in heavy search engine manipulation to get its "electrified" cars show up under "Toyota electric cars".
Toyota also used "Beyond Zero” and “To Each Their Own Electric” to describe it's hybrid lineup which is clearly misleading and BS. It also started slapping "HEV" badges on Priuses in 2023 instead of hybrid.
There's already plenty of lawsuits against Toyota on Mirai related issues and many of them point to Toyota and it's dealers conflating FCEVs with BEVs.
"Capable" of zero emissions operations is a strong word here, when literally less than 1% of hydrogen produced is considered green, and the vast majority is from fracking. The effective GHG emissions of operating a hydrogen vehicle from well to wheel is worse than most gas cars.
But hey, with people like you defending Toyota they could build a car that runs on Koolaide
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u/Recoil42 1996 Tyco R/C 3h ago edited 3h ago
The acronym 'HEV' is an industry-accepted initialism, and has been in use for well over two decades. You can find it all over the EPA and DOE websites, it isn't new or malicious.
The dynamic of fuel cell vehicles are predominantly fuelled by fracking-derived hydrogen today is no different from BEVs being predominantly fuelled by coal-burning and petroleum grids, which is also the case today. The whole goal is a transition. It takes time.
Again, these cars are considered ZEVs by all major world governments. Toyota isn't alone on this — they are not departing from the norms in any way, shape, or form. You are actively spreading misinformation on all counts here.
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u/gottatrusttheengr 3h ago
"A worldwide electric grid 40% powered by nuclear and renewables is totally equivalent to a Hydrogen ecosystem 99% derived from fossil fuels, trust me bro". Oh and totally ignore well to wheel efficiency here.
Hydrogen itself is an indirect greenhouse gas that worsens the effects of methane
Hydrogen for green energy was a scam 10 years ago, is a scam today, and will still be a scam if it's still around in 10 years as long as people who don't understand thermodynamics are the ones making investments.
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u/tech57 2h ago
Hydrogen for green energy was a scam 10 years ago, is a scam today, and will still be a scam if it's still around in 10 years
Yup. Hydrogen has it's uses in some industries like steel furnaces. It's not useful at replacing the EV industry. Look no further than people unable to drive because the fuel nozzle is frozen to their car.
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u/Recoil42 1996 Tyco R/C 2h ago
Again, that's not really how any of this works. It's a transition — none of these numbers are static. Electric vehicles are not locked into a coal-fueled power grid, fuel cells are not locked into fracking-derived hydrogen. You are spreading misinformation and spin. All of these developments are highly synergistic, and the goal is not to corral consumers into one specific technology per-segment.
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u/cabs84 2019 etron, 2013 frs 2h ago
non-fossil sourced hydrogen is expensive and produced in very limited quantities. it's like porsche's elusive e-fuel.
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u/Recoil42 1996 Tyco R/C 1h ago
For the third time now: It's a transition.
Costs come down with scale, with R&D, and as related technologies and supply chains themselves scale. Costs and production scale are not static. The argument you're using now is the same argument being used by anti-EV crowd with zero difference whatsoever.
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u/aced124C 6h ago
This gets nowhere near enough attention. Toyota doesn’t deserve a place in the EV market or general car market for helping fund big oil so much
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u/ladyrift 3h ago
They also fund those that believe in climate change. Almost like they fund both sides of the USA to almost the same amount.
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u/tech57 2h ago
Almost like you are making the other person's point.
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u/ladyrift 1h ago
An article was Linked an article that claims they fund climate change deniers which they do they also fund equal parts climate change believers. Almost like the reason they fund either group has nothing to do with climate change.
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u/inspaceiamfamous 9h ago
Sounds like Them accepting defeat. Toyota San was very adamant on EVs failing two years ago and let Chinese and South Korean brands corner the non us - Eu markets.
I wish them luck, but if it’s a similar effort to the bz4x, solterra or the Lexus one, they might as well keep it.
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u/Aressito 11h ago
Wonder how they will price the electric c-hr as it seems better equipped than the Bz4x but should sit below the latter model.
Anyway it will be interesting to see what other models they come up with and especially pricings
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u/Car-face 10h ago
Takaoka is where the BZ4X is also expected to start production soon - The CH-R + is built on e-TNGA as well, so I expect the move to Takaoka will bring with it substantial platform upgrades that carry across to both the CH-R+ as well as BZ4X (which I'm guessing will also get a name change).
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u/MrPuddington2 3h ago edited 3h ago
Worth noting that "EV sales" are not slowing worldwide. They are only slowing in a few markets, and probably only temporarily so. Global sales are still growing.
Also, Toyota is not currently selling 5 electric vehicles.
And that makes you wonder whether there are more mistakes in this article.
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u/Evebnumberone 9h ago
Come on Toyota, all we want to know is when are the EV Corolla and Yaris coming? How much are they? If it's 40k+ you can gtfo.
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u/rexchampman 9h ago
What incentive do they have to rush?
They own the hybrid technology. It would be better for them to extend the life of that business where they have a competitive advantage.
As soon as they convert to Ev, they lose all competitiveness and sink their cash cow.
They can afford to wait and see how the market evolves.
Of course I wish they didn’t but that’s the business reality for Toyota.
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u/tech57 5h ago
What incentive do they have to rush?
Money.
Why does Toyota's future plans hinge on Tesla and China selling a shit ton of EVs for years? EVs that will be on the road for the next 20 plus years. Why? How do all those lost sales help Toyota?
They can afford to wait and see how the market evolves.
That happened awhile back. That's the whole point.
Then, in 2007, the industry got a significant boost when Wan Gang, an auto engineer who had worked for Audi in Germany for a decade, became China’s minister of science and technology. Wan had been a big fan of EVs and tested Tesla’s first EV model, the Roadster, in 2008, the year it was released. People now credit Wan with making the national decision to go all-in on electric vehicles.
Since then, EV development has been consistently prioritized in China’s national economic planning.
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u/V8-Turbo-Hybrid I'm BEV owner, not Hybrid 11h ago
Need to push harder, 15 isn’t really enough. They aren’t Ford or Honda.
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u/glmory 6h ago
What niche are they likely missing with fifteen? Tesla has five and feels like they cover at least half of use cases.
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u/tech57 5h ago
The only thing Toyota needs right now is a 2nd Gen Prius stuffed full of LFP and fast DCFC. That's it. Until that happens nothing has changed at Toyota although some PHEVs with 80 mile battery only range would be nice.
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u/Recoil42 1996 Tyco R/C 3h ago
You're talking about the CHR+.
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u/tech57 3h ago
I don't think so, no. For starters it's not for sale.
The CH-R+ is making its debut in Europe, and Toyota hasn’t yet confirmed details for the U.S. market
In Europe, Toyota will offer two batteries with 57.7 or 77.0 kWh gross capacity.
Toyota’s not talking about range beyond saying the electric C-HR it will do up to 600 kilometers on the European WLTP cycle. Convert that to miles then lop off about 25 percent due to testing differences and we’re estimating the big-battery, front-wheel-drive range king could earn around 270 miles in the U.S.’s EPA test.
DC fast-charging peaks at 150 kilowatts, which is the bare minimum for an EV to be competitive today.
The good news is that Toyota has finally implemented a battery preconditioning algorithm
We’ll have to wait for more details and seat time before casting those judgments. As we said form the start, what matters most is the price tag. A price around $30,000 would motivate a lot of buyers to overlook range or charging speeds that come up a little short.
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u/WeldAE e-Tron, Model 3 5h ago
They claim 5 now, and they have covered....checks notes a single class, maybe two if you think the Lexus one is any different because it's "luxury". So this sounds like 3 classes at best with 15? It also doesn't help that none of the 5 are good EVs and are just compliance EVs.
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u/orangpelupa 8h ago
GAC Toyota, a joint venture with China's Guangzhou Automobile Group, is responsible for development and manufacturing of the car. Costs have been reduced by procuring key components from local manufacturers.
I think it was not just by component procurement but also by releasing the same car in 2 different variations and market
Bz3x and gac trump s7.
Kinda like Subaru sokterra and bz4x.
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u/ConohaConcordia 7h ago
I knew it. The BZ3X as far as I understand is mostly based on GAC’s tech and was based on the AION cars, which are (iirc) reliable but poor in terms of features.
Given how much the Japanese market resists foreign brands, Toyota basically copying a proven Chinese car will help EV adoption in Japan immensely. Japanese EV buyers might be hesitant to buy a Chinese EV, but not if Toyota’s logo is on it (and for good reasons, I’d argue, especially when it comes to availability).
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u/tech57 2h ago
https://www.topgear.com.ph/news/car-news/2025-toyota-bz3x-a5100-20250312
And here’s another thing you should know about the Toyota bZ3X: It’s actually a product of the Toyota-GAC partnership in China. Peel away the body and one will see that its bones are based on the second-generation GAC Aion V.
Inside, the cabin is nothing like the usual Toyota product, mainly because the Chinese market seems to prefer a near-buttonless minimalist interior.
Chinese EVs Rebadged as Toyota & Mazda - Beijing Autoshow 2024
https://youtu.be/wv2VBgy-qkA?t=157
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u/AWDriftEV 2h ago
Toyota will dominate the EV market and I am not happy about it because they lied and stalled for years so they could catch up. Haha. Good for them.
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u/Volvowner44 2025 BMW iX 15m ago
IF Toyota is serious about this release plan, and IF they are learning from their early experience as well as the growing pains of other EV manufacturers, they can use their US manufacturing base to avoid the worst of the tariff hits and establish a solid presence in the US EV market.
The conventional thinking is that Toyota is late, and I'd tend to agree. However, it's important to note that Toyota does not work on a first mover basis. They enter markets when they can build a reliable, cost-effective, profitable vehicle. That time was not 2020-2023, but there's a decent chance that 2027-28 will be a good time for that era of EVs to flourish.
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u/aced124C 6h ago
Kind of means nothing when Toyota is one of the Biggest lobbying companies for BIG OIL. They’ve been fighting against EVs and trying to push hydrogen as a way to keep it alive only to create hydrogen fuel through mostly heavily polluting methods. They deserve to fail at this point in the EV market and as a car company too little too late
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u/Mariner1990 7h ago
Although I would like to see a faster transition also, Toyota has sold about 6 million new Hybrids in the US ( including 2 to me). A hybrid typically burns about 1/3 less gas than a standard ICE, so this would be the equivalent of taking 2 million traditional gas burners off the road,… and that’s not nothing.
Only Tesla, having sold 4.5 million vehicles in the US, thereby taking 4.5 million traditional gas burners out of the picture, has done more in terms of reducing our CO2 levels.
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u/deppaotoko 12h ago edited 12h ago