r/investing • u/Creepy_Floor_1380 • 1d ago
Wall Street is absolutely complicit in this mess!!
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u/secretlyjudging 23h ago
All the big companies backed Trump during election. All the big media and newspapers owned by billionaires backed Trump and helped him win. Even if they didn't explicitly endorse him, they sanesplained all the BS he was spewing.
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u/DannkDanny 22h ago
Something is going on for them to want this. I'm.not a big conspiracy guy, but there were no secrets during the campaign. They cannot play dumb or coy and pretend they didnt know.
So why did they support this?
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u/secretlyjudging 22h ago
I think they thought they could control Trump. Which is true but he's also super dumb and stupid.
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u/AttitudeAndEffort2 20h ago
This is all it is.
They expected Trump to lie to get power but never follow through with it (Like saying "i didn't know what project 2035 is").
The problem is he's both an idiot and a traitor.
He has all the money and power he ever wants, now he can do everything Putin wants and destroy the country without any consequences.
Putin had his pedophile tape and it started as blackmail but the dude legit has been manipulated so well he doesn't even think about how he's being a literal traitor
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u/iKill_eu 21h ago
They believed it would be like Trump 1 where he was mostly restrained by classical pro market conservatives.
They didn't realize he already purged anyone willing to say no to him.
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u/Gaff_Daddy 21h ago
Hedged their bets. If they went against Trump and he won, they’re fucked. Go for Trump and he loses, Kamala is rational and wouldn’t go for revenge or anything.
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u/Striking_Extent 21h ago
Fear.
They figured if he won and they didn't back him he would target them like a mob boss.
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u/shred-i-knight 20h ago
They understand his retribution is a poison pill, that’s why Bezos caved. They understand that being on the wrong side could mean investigations or lost contracts. They are cowards but they aren’t acting irrationally. Why the President has the power to inflict personal pain is because our government is broken, specifically Congress. Which is the result of brain rot and apathy of the American people. The problem is systemic and until that is addressed we are fucked
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u/BigBossShadow 20h ago
Fear.
They all knew not supporting him would incur his wrath and the wrath of the rabid base.
They are all sniveling pathetic cowards.
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u/skycake10 21h ago
They don't support it, they simply did not believe what he said. Whether they thought he was lying or meant it and wouldn't actually go through with it doesn't really matter.
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u/owen__wilsons__nose 21h ago
I think they simply did internal polling and realized the election was a done deal. And they also know how vindictive Trump is, so they bent the knee
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u/LOLIMJESUS 21h ago
Because it’s not over. The tangible ramifications won’t be nearly as bad as the panic we are experiencing now and market participants will be forced to buy back in at some point. When we inevitably get back to ATH at some point, what companies will be leading the way? We may not like how it happened, but trump manufactured a buying opportunity for any investor looking to buy those companies.
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u/StatusQuotidian 22h ago
It’s simple: they didn’t think he’d do it. These guys are “little ‘c’” conservatives, and still think the GOP is committed to markets. My brother is an analyst at one of the big investment banks and told me there was nothing to worry about because Trump and Musk “have a lot of money in the game” and wouldn’t jeopardize that. It’s the ultimate status quo bias.
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u/eastvenomrebel 1d ago
Of course Scott Bessent backed Trump, he's the Secretary of Treasury! He's been publicly backing him since January
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u/Creepy_Floor_1380 1d ago
Yeah I know , but he said that the drop was due to deepSeek.
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u/Left-Handed_Stranger 1d ago
The market internals were falling apart since October. Markets go up and down for all sorts of things. You should embrace drawdowns as they are the reason why equities do well over the long term.
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u/Objective_Chest_1697 1d ago
You are missing a not so small detail- you are assuming this isn’t intentional.
Market downturns and economic suffering transfer even MORE wealth to the top.
Destroy it and buy up the remnants on the cheap.
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u/Ibuilds 1d ago
The planned economic collapse is also a pathway to an authoritarian government
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u/Previous-Height4237 23h ago
Nah, man isn't planning a thing. He just thinks he is a smart business man.
Let this article be one of the biggest insights into how unbelievably fucking dumb as a business man he is. Man is a toddler that failed upwards on his daddy's money and still acts like it.
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/21/nyregion/trump-columbia-university-400-mi1llion.html
In private, he tossed around numerous prices, topping out at $400 million, according to a Columbia official from that era, a figure that an anonymous source leaked to The Post a few times.
.......
No matter the amount, Mr. Trump said to Columbia officials, the university would be getting such a great deal that it should also rename its business school the Donald J. Trump School of Business.
.......
Goldman Sachs had assigned a value in the range of $65 million to $90 million, according to a person who was in the room. In an attempt to soothe Mr. Trump, a trustee offered that the university would be willing to pay the top of the range.
........
It didn’t matter. A furious Mr. Trump walked out less than five minutes after the meeting had started.
........
Yet Mr. Trump was outraged. He accused the investors of selling it for far less than what he could have. He sued them for $1 billion in damages. The case was dismissed, with the judge pointing out that the development had sold for $188 million more than its latest appraisal.
........
In 2010 — about eight years after Mr. Bollinger contacted Mr. Trump to tell him the school would be expanding into Harlem — two Columbia student journalists who had written a profile of the university president received in the mail a gold-embossed letter on thick paperstock from a displeased reader, Donald J. Trump.
He included a copy of a missive he had recently sent to Columbia’s board of trustees, in which he called the Manhattanville campus “lousy” and Mr. Bollinger “a dummy.”
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u/NegotiationJumpy4837 22h ago
I'm always amazed at the people that think Trump is playing 4d chess. Have you guys heard him speak?
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u/teknic111 21h ago
Idiots don’t become billionaires.
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u/Royal_Acanthaceae693 21h ago
This idiot has lost more than he ever earned and only has his head above water because of Russia and other investors who bought a presidency. If his dad hadn't given him millions, he'd be a low level con artist in jail.
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u/Previous-Height4237 15h ago
Yes they do. Failing upwards is easy when you have money from your daddy. Happens all the time.
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u/frontier_kittie 22h ago
Trump doesn't know what he's doing, but the people pulling his strings probably do
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u/Previous-Height4237 15h ago
Navarro is behind the tariffs. He is basically a failed economics professor who has never worked a real job a day in his life.
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u/Immacu1ate 22h ago
How can this be true when the top 10% owns 89% of stocks?
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u/m0nty555 22h ago
It’s Reddit, the wealthy simultaneously are always invested, but also sitting on loads of cash.
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u/daking213 21h ago
For real, for years I’ve been reading how the good stock market only benefits the wealthy and now that it’s crashing that somehow also only benefits the wealthy lol
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u/inconsistent3 1d ago
Exactly. They’re doing this so the Fed drops interest rates and the rich can borrow money at the expense of hyperinflation. It’s sickening. Republicans are complicit and they need to stoop this madness.
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u/monsieur_bear 23h ago
Can the Fed drop interest rates if inflation starts ticking up? I believe Powell emphasized the need to prevent inflation expectations from becoming unanchored, and the Fed will prioritize controlling inflation over stimulating growth.
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u/turbodsm 22h ago
Nope
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u/monsieur_bear 21h ago
Nope to what? Maybe I’m reading this wrong but the below seems to suggest inflation is the greater imperative as was seen in what happened in the 1970’s.
Uncertainty is high,” Powell said in response to a question from the event moderators. “What we’ve learned is that the tariffs are higher than anticipated, higher than almost all forecasters predicted.”
While it is unclear how it will play out, he said, “the same is likely to be true of the economic effects, which will include higher inflation and slower growth.”
“While tariffs are highly likely to generate at least a temporary rise in inflation, it is also possible that the effects could be more persistent,” Powell said.
“Our obligation is to keep longer-term inflation expectations well anchored and to make certain that a one-time increase in the price level does not become an ongoing inflation problem,” he said.
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u/turbodsm 16h ago
If inflation picks up, interest rates won't be dropped.
We're basically entering new unprecedented times. So lucky for us.
Non zero interest rates, increasing unemployment, inflation, and a recession.
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u/EliminateThePenny 21h ago edited 21h ago
That's great and all..
.. until Powell is removed from office and some fucking stooge comes in and does it anyway.
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u/ygrasdil 23h ago
This analysis is so uneducated and thoughtless. Who has the most money in the stock market? The rich. When this happens, they are hit more than us as far as wealth is concerned. Your analysis makes no sense. Are they just sitting on billions in cash, waiting to strike? Nonsense.
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u/RackemFrackem 21h ago
If the market drops by half, they can take out loans collateralized by what they still have in the market to buy all the discounted assets, then make out like bandits on the recovery.
Your analysis is - while not thoughtless - lacking some of the finer details of investing.
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u/ALLCAPITAL 23h ago
So you haven’t read history have you? 🤦♂️
Your opinion is uneducated and seems rooted in your own logic rather than historical examples of the rich scooping up large swaths of assets when hard times hit. The poor are hurt FAR MORE in these situations.
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u/ygrasdil 23h ago edited 22h ago
I’m actually particularly educated in monetary policy and economic history. I am published as well. Care to actually make an argument instead of vaguely alluding to “history?”
The rich weather because they don’t see a substantial hit to their ability to afford their direct consumption. However, in terms of wealth, they are worse off for this. What is your argument exactly?
EDIT: When you have something new to say as a response, it’s usually good practice to start a new comment rather than edit the old one so that people can see you’re responding.
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u/sanemaniac 22h ago
Not the OP but just an idea.
They’re the ones who will have cash that they can use to take advantage of the depressed economic situation. If we’re talking about an actual recession or depression, people losing their homes, businesses, having to sell off assets at reduced prices can lead to consolidation of capital goods and property toward the only people who are able to afford it. That’s not all rich people and perhaps overall there will be a slight reduction in wealth concentration, but some uber rich people who are able to leverage their assets and/or are holding a lot of cash can take advantage.
Seems bad for society when home ownership already seems out of reach for a lot of young Americans and rents are increasing.
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u/ygrasdil 22h ago
This isn’t bad. It’s a nightmare disaster. It’s going to impact us for decades. But all of these soy left “THE BILLIONAIRES” comments I see all over the place are missing the point entirely. The message people need to take from this is that we need to vote for a stable, boring government. All this misplaced hatred will lead to nothing good
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u/skycake10 21h ago
In my experience the "soy left" thinks Trump is doing it because he's really fucking stupid and it's centrists who would rather believe it's an evil plot because that's more comforting than it being the result of the two stupidest men in the world being in charge of the entire country.
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u/Gaff_Daddy 21h ago
If this caught them by surprise then they lost a lot of money. If they knew it was coming then they would have been able to free up cash to buy in lower.
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u/AromaticAd7753 22h ago
Have you ever heard of shorting the market?
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u/ygrasdil 22h ago
You do realize that the ultra wealthy aren’t just swimming in billions of liquid funding to short with right? This is simply not how things work.
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u/kentiumMKV 22h ago
They have assets they can borrow against, though, right?
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u/ygrasdil 22h ago
Who is going to loan you against an asset that just devalued 10% in a day or two?
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u/Darkmayday 21h ago edited 21h ago
Buddy you aren't serious. 1. They have already taken out these loans.
- They havent borrowed even close to their max value. Do you think they had to return every mansion, yacht, jet, and penny the second their stocks fall?
Since you claim to be so educated on monetary policy, do the calculation for how much you think a bank would loan them. A conservative estimate is 5-20% of their assets that'd mean they have a max loan of 10-40b. You think they can't take out a few hundred mil to short the market then buy the dip?
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u/AromaticAd7753 22h ago
Sure, they may not have billions in pure cash lying around, but come on... the ultra-wealthy have access to leverage information, and financial instruments the average person doesn’t. They don’t need all their wealth to be liquid to profit from downturns. Hedge funds, family offices, and private banks offer ways to short, hedge, or reposition assets quickly. So yeah, they might not be “swimming in cash,” but they’re definitely not sitting ducks either.
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u/NegotiationJumpy4837 22h ago
Question: if the government enacts a policy that results in the market go up, do you believe that's a way to bring more wealth to the poor and middle class?
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u/Howdoyouusecommas 21h ago
Not OP but I would also say no to that. Most people's exposure to the market is their 401k which they do not actively manage. If the government really enacted broad policies to materially benefits every American it would probably hurt the market overall. Large corporations have little incentive to do right be their employees or customers base. The concessions they do make to those groups are small and often enforced through regulations imposed by the government.
So many companies now are so large that customers can't vote with their wallet. A booming stock market is great for those who can put money into it, but not necessarily good for everyone else. The last few years have shown us that record profits often come from a worse overall experience to the customer due to increased prices, fewer services, shrinkflation. The need for quarterly performance increases result in suppressed wage and fewer employee benefits.
TLDR: a booming market doesn't really benefit most people, but a falling market hurts them.
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u/NegotiationJumpy4837 21h ago edited 20h ago
It was a bit rhetorical, because I didn't think anyone would think that. OP's argument seems to be:
market goes up = handout for the rich
market goes down = also a handout for the rich.
Seems a little contradictory, right?
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u/iKill_eu 21h ago
Look no further than Europe where the stock market is less exciting but living standards are generally higher.
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u/Helpful_Finger_4854 22h ago
A rich man said "be fearful when others are greedy, be greedy when they are fearful."
They WANT people to panic, so they can take the pile of cash and corner the market with it
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u/PurplePango 22h ago
Why this wasn’t priced in over a month ago I have no idea
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u/lfe-soondubu 22h ago
Hard to price in the whims of Trump, to be fair. He already had multiple false starts on these tariffs in his short time in office.
I say this as someone who sold off everything when he took office though.
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21h ago
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u/futureformerjd 1d ago
Nobody on Wall St. wants this.
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u/boozebus 22h ago
They wanted it in November.
They didn’t learn the lesson from the My Pillow guy. Trump does what is good for Trump. And nobody else.
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u/D74248 23h ago
Yea, the WSJ has been pretty clear for months now.
And I cannot believe that I am in a timeline where I agree with parts of the WSJ Opinion section. They hate Trump's approach to tariffs, RJK Jr and the gutting of the decapitation of the intelligence agencies.
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u/ronswanson11 22h ago
And everything about Donald Trump should have screamed, "Don't vote for this clown." Yet, so many on Wallstreet openly supported him. Trump is not a normal person with rational thoughts. I'm so ashamed at the shear number of supposedly intelligent people that either supported him or did a bunch of hand-wringing. None of what this administration does is normal or rational, and that's all terrible for America. Transphobia and xenophobia were more important than a functional government for so many. It's just absurd.
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u/RollinToast 21h ago
I mean the WSJ routinely defended and justified Trumps actions leading up to the election while simultaneously doing everything they could to make every decision by Biden and by proxy Kamala look as bad as they possibly could do they definitely wanted this.
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u/Howdoyouusecommas 21h ago
Major companies want deregulation, Trump and Republicans promise to give them that. There are other reasons of course but these companies want what small shackles we have on them removed. They will back who promises them that, even when evidence points to it being a bad idea. They fall for the same things everyone else does, someone promised them what they want so the want to believe.
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u/ronswanson11 20h ago
I understand the desire for companies to want less regulation. I also understand the desire for lower taxes.
What I don't understand is how so many people are willing to look past the worst impulses of someone like Trump. You can't tell me the average CEO is too stupid to realize how dangerous someone like Trump is to not only the image of the US to the rest of the world, but also how dangerous he is to the US itself. Are people really so greedy they are willing to risk losing everything for the chance at a bit more profit? Backing Trump is a huge gamble that was never worth the risk.
Trump showed us who he was when he tried to cling to power the last time around. He was also a convicted felon awaiting sentencing. Trump was running to stay out of prison, plain and simple. He also made it very clear he was out for retribution.
Now that he is back in power he is doing what you would expect him to do. He is already purging all top officials in the executive branch, military, and intelligence agencies. He is them with unqualified yes men. He is ignoring federal judges' orders. He is saying he plans to stay in power and he is burning down a global economic order that has benefited the US for decades. He is acting as a dictator acts. This was all expected. Is this what the corporate world wants? Or were they too stupid to see the obvious?
In no way can anyone believe Trump is good for America. I feel like I'm surrounded by crazy people. Why are we turning into a fascist dictatorship when we were on top of the world? This doesn't make any sense to me. How is pissing off our allies good for America? I can't believe people actually want this. I'm so upset and in disbelief.
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u/Howdoyouusecommas 20h ago
Because he told them what they want to hear. He made people who's life has not been great feel heard. He also gave many a simple solution to complex problems and someone to blame. He promised to make the poor more comfortable, bring back good paying jobs, remove regulations so business could prosper and lower taxes. Humans are in general not rational, some or us more so than others, or on some subjects more than others, but we are creature that see the world reactively. This is true for rich and poor alike.
Look at any headline on nearly any subject, we want simple answers and quick fixes, he promised them. Couple that with years of lowering education standards and extremely poor media literacy and the populous has been primed to fall for these magic solutions offered by a con man.
Life sucks for a lot of people and experience are locked away behind a pay wall. Most people go to work and go home, our lives are lived digitally because that is what most can afford and in that digital life we are fed curated content to take the most advantage of us possible.
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u/angrypoohmonkey 20h ago
That’s just false to say nobody on Wall Street wanted this. Trump literally said he was going to do this. A lot of these Wall Street guys either facilitated, sane washed, sat on their hands for, and/or directly voted for Trump. They literally took a stick and put it in the front wheel of their own bicycle.
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u/futureformerjd 19h ago
They didn't want it. They were just too dumb to think he would actually do it.
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u/angrypoohmonkey 18h ago
I believe that some of them felt that way. But you seem to be suggesting that many, if not all, of the best educated people on the planet actually believed he would not do it. That would be insanely fantasical.
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u/futureformerjd 18h ago
But true. Education is irrelevant to predicting what a madman will do.
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u/angrypoohmonkey 18h ago
It’s 100% relevant. If you went to the best schools and studied basic psychology, economics, politics, philosophy, and history, then you would know much better than the average person who did not receive such an education. These folks on Wall Street went to the very best universities and most of them went to the very best high schools. To say that they didn’t expect Trump to enact these tariffs is at worst disingenuous and at best ignorant.
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u/futureformerjd 18h ago
Lol. Okay. You're right. Everybody on Wall St. knew he'd do this. That's why the market sold off 10% in two days.
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u/WillieM96 20h ago
Then why did they vote for this? Nothing here is a surprise change of heart from his campaign. This is EXACTLY what he said he would do. If they didn’t want this, why in God’s name did they vote for it?
Answer: because the other choice was a woman who might raise taxes a little bit.
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u/SNK4 23h ago
I think you're mistaking people who publicly got behind him because they realized that he was going to win and that he is a clown who values loyalty and thus they did what was optimal for them given the context. No one rational thinks the tariffs are a good idea.
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u/zeppo_shemp 21h ago
No one rational thinks the tariffs are a good idea
bro EU tariffs on US goods average about 39%. https://imgur.com/a/QIpmtYG
why are tariffs a bad idea only when the US uses them?
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u/Gaff_Daddy 21h ago
Because why would we care if Euro citizens paid more for their goods? US companies still dominated the entire world with their tariffs so why would we give a fuck about their tariffs? Honestly.
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u/HonkinSriLankan 21h ago
You’re an absolute moron if you think wallstreet didn’t cash in big time on this tariff announcement.
It was telegraphed for months. Fucking hell even buffet pulled out of the s&p MONTHS ago. The only ppl shocked are morons living under a rock.
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u/No_Championship8570 1d ago
They did know better, they are too busy gaming the system through leverages etc.
The stock market is not much more than gambling.
Read yesterday that someone leveraged $200 million that bitcoin would go up. The very next day, Trump declares Bitcoin is gonna replace gold. Bitcoin jumps. No investigations, not even breaking the news cycle. Could this be possible? How is that not 100% insider trading.
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u/Creepy_Floor_1380 1d ago
Yeah ok dude but you are extrapolating and then generalizing. Stanley Druckenmiller is an impressive investor.
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u/Bocifer1 22h ago
You realize “wall street” isn’t some singular group, right? You’re talking about hundreds of millions of individual investors.
This is a classic case of “bulls make money, bears make money, and pigs get slaughtered”.
Look at the trends for major indexes for the past 5 years…anyone buying into that is just a greedy pig. We’ve been in a runaway bull market for way too long and it was well-past anything sustainable.
Shit, people were saying TSLA - a fucking car company - was worth trillions…we’re still valuing Bitcoin - digital fools gold with no use case - at 80k.
This could have been handled soo much better. But we were absolutely in a bubble economy; and it’s needed to correct for a long time.
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u/JerseyCityHotDog 22h ago
No, it's all one group. I saw them all in a room together once ringing a bell at 9:30 AM while devising this plan.
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u/TrebleTrouble-912 1d ago
I’m sure all those guys are going to win on the ride down and the ride back up., as they suck our 401ks dry.
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u/zeppo_shemp 21h ago
as they suck our 401ks dry.
what are the logistics of that?
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u/TrebleTrouble-912 21h ago
You don’t hear that giant sucking sound? It’s the sound of trillions in retirement savings getting wiped out as the billionaires swoop in to buy cheap assets with their hedged profits from the fall.
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u/MyOwnWayHome 21h ago
America hasn’t become desperate enough to vote for a disciple of Milton Friedman. We’re going to have to learn the hard way.
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u/Hav3_Y0u_M3t_T3d 21h ago edited 21h ago
The thing almost no one is talking about is that this is just the BEGINNING. EVEN IF Congress gets their shit together and asserts their power and reverses all of these tariffs...
Elon took a chainsaw to the government and those consequences have barely even started to show up.
We're not getting any kind of a recovery any time soon, we are nowhere near a bottom.
Edit: don't get me started on the utter shattering of people's confidence in the market when one buffoon can wipe out a full years worth of gains in their retirement account in 1 speech and 1 AI generated tariff plan
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u/WeeklyOracle 22h ago
tariffs are fine if the other side does unfair competition, like dumping.
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u/kentiumMKV 22h ago
The whole world isn't dumping at least by 10%
The researchers they cited have refuted the conclusions of the trump admin.
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/the-white-house-cited-these-economists-to-justify-its-tariffs-they-arent-thrilled-193615537.html
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u/Ok-Pangolin-3160 23h ago
100%. Failing to denounce Trump as a CEO should be grounds for immediate removal due to stupidity. It’s become a fiduciary duty.
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u/cannibal_swan 23h ago
Yea, many of these people did support Trump. However, I would guess that those same people did not expect the massive tariffs that Trump imposed. Consensus was that it would be around the 10% ballpark, not the crazy amount that we got.
Doesn’t necessarily excuse them but that would be in their defense.
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u/edakaya240 21h ago
You raise a critical point the long-term economic implications of protectionist policies like tariffs were never a mystery. For seasoned market participants and institutional leaders, feigned surprise now reflects either selective memory or strategic convenience.
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u/BigBossShadow 20h ago
I hope people will wake up and realize that anything anyone says publically is a lie to manipulate the public. Wall street's entire MO is to manipulate the public into giving them more money. Majority of market moves are done in dark pools at this point, Wall Street hates US citizens, it hates the average person, it worships power.
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u/wuznu1019 20h ago
"Ben Shapiro and other conservative voices suddenly sounding the alarm..."
Dude. Ben Shapiro has always been against tarrifs. Most of the conservatives who are also speaking against them have also been loud supporters of free trade. Way to misrepresent, or totally misunderstand half the republican party lmao.
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u/thewimsey 20h ago
He implemented them in 2018.
In a very very limited fashion, and mostly just on China. Biden didn't repeal them.
And I think that's probably what most people thought would happen this time - bluffing about general tariffs and then backing down after getting a minor concession - like happened with Canada and Mexico a few months ago. Followed by maybe some possibly useful tariffs on China.
Because this was the pattern in the previous term. I doubt anyone really believed he would start a trade war with the entire planet, including those islands occupied only by penguins.
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u/FaithlessnessDull336 1d ago
I’m so confused right now, as I see this is an absolute win for investor that used their brain. I heard Tariff War coming 2nd of April, I sell my stock on relative top. Now after -20% spy drop, I never dream of buying Nvidia 92$ ever again after 150$ top, now I can. Planning on dcaing into the market slowly and when the market recover, the market always recover and go up, this is technically Gen X,Y,Z 2008 type of life changing investment. Why is it bad at all? Didn’t the youth always complain about how they were born too late to buy stock cheaply?
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u/43user 1d ago
Did people forget we were in an everything bubble and tons of debt going into this? He’s now popping it in the most violent way possible. I personally think this hole is a lot deeper than you expect.
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u/FaithlessnessDull336 1d ago
But the market only goes up, as it’s already -20% as a whole, I would dcaing until the bottom and up again. Fat profit over the horizon staring at me
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u/LeafyWolf 23h ago
Markets don't always go up on time horizons that matter for individuals. The General Crisis of the 17th Century collapsed economic markets and led to wars for over 100 years...and was triggered by, you guessed it, tariffs!
Also, remember that inflation is also happening, so even if we do get back up to ATH in 5 or 10 years, those dollars are going to be worth much less in real value.
But...you do you.
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u/Creepy_Floor_1380 1d ago
The point is that thinking of this bear market as a simple dip, for me at least is wrong, the world order is tilting and counties will be more willing to invest and trade with China than with the US.
We will understand this quite immediately, simply by looking at EU response.
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u/FaithlessnessDull336 1d ago
I’m not sure if you have any knowledge about Chyna and how they operate their economy and politic as a hardcore Communist Party Ideology. They don’t have a concept such as open & free market economy, it’s full tilt politic one party and all for the party. I am extremely familiar with it cause I came from an Asian Communist Country myself. You know Jack Ma( AliBaba fattest cock) , he talked smack about the Gorvernment Banking and its operational system, instance evaporation for months, company shredded into many small sectors/companies, ten of Billions in fines and exiled from China to Japan for years, he was recently recalled by Xi( Chyna chairman). They are not capitalism so they don’t consume which lead to export dumping their inflation abroad hence EU and America strong reaction, even Russian( their bff) banned Chyna’s goods such as car as anti dumping policies. https://kyivindependent.com/russia-moves-to-curb-chinese-car-imports-with-higher-fees-tighter-regulations/ There is no way any country is willing to absorb such extreme manufacturing from China because they are already limiting it. Saying replacing US is like a junkies say they will stop smoking fentanyl, no, they are not quitting for jack, they will die with it to the end.
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u/Creepy_Floor_1380 1d ago
Dude China is the major economic partner of probably half of the EU right now. They produce things extremely cheaply, we know how, and their quality is slightly rising. That said the eu will be force to take countermeasures vis a vis the US, which will make it closer to China in some way or another.
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u/FaithlessnessDull336 1d ago
Maybe you are right, but Europe is implied significant anti dumping laws on Chyna and say they want closer collab is some insane ideas. https://policy.trade.ec.europa.eu/news/commission-protects-eu-biodiesel-industry-dumped-chinese-imports-2025-02-11_en https://policy.trade.ec.europa.eu/enforcement-and-protection/trade-defence/anti-dumping-measures_en#:~:text=The%20anti%2Ddumping%20investigation,not%20against%20the%20European%20interest. And then the Biggest Chinese problem, they are exceptionally good with corrupting the EU, I’m not sure how you view this but to me, corruption bad. https://thediplomat.com/2025/03/the-huawei-scandal-and-europes-china-reckoning/
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u/Creepy_Floor_1380 1d ago
Yeah of course is bad and all the things you said are true dumping, plus state subsidies which are illegal according to the wto.
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u/Ok_Reflection2086 1d ago
Gotta love how you slam Chyna for not having a free economy… while the orange imbecile slaps blanket tariffs on everyone
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u/FaithlessnessDull336 1d ago
Oh yeh, Chyna straight up banned other countries from conducting business in their country like Google, Facebook and stuff. They did let Google in for a while, steal their program to make Baidu and kicked Google out like a cheap whore. That is great economic strategy if you ever ask me
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u/thejaga 23h ago
Companies will fail, people will lose their jobs. It's great if you were prepared and don't rely on actively working for a living, aka if you are already wealthy.
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u/FaithlessnessDull336 23h ago
I am working a normal full time job and invest like a normal person, you only need to open any social media app and you will see Tariff news non stop 24/7 everywhere. Each time 🍊man open his mouth and yapped about tariff, instant drop so I learn to prepare for his child ‘Liberation day’. And Buffet was going all cash during November too, everyone and their dog talk about it in this forum so I also copy him. It is just that simple
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u/thejaga 23h ago
Yes. But what if you lose your job in two months, are you going to be celebrating about how you sold at the top and you're ready to buy back in once we bottom out? Or will you struggle to pay your mortgage, be forced to move and change your life, like people in 2008?
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u/FaithlessnessDull336 23h ago
I am frugal so I have quite a large sum of saving, I am also cutting so I must stop myself from eating anything too much. I might have to cut back on spending but would be quite lucky to be in this situation right now. Yeh, you are right, I might not think deep enough. Thank you and good luck 👍
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u/daab2g 1d ago
This guy's got galaxy market timing brains right here, he should be running a hedge fund not talking shit on Reddit
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u/FaithlessnessDull336 1d ago
A time in the market beat timing the market enthusiast, Warren Buffet’s disciple. Oh wait, Buffet went cash heavy 300-400B December last year to time the market since it’s over price and tariff’s bad. But hey I can invest right now with a better average than I could 3 days ago, so a win
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u/daab2g 23h ago
Because regular investors have the same investment goals as Buffet who has to figure out how not to piss away hundreds of billions of shareholder money.
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u/FaithlessnessDull336 23h ago
You are talking about the one of a kind legendary investor with the best track record in the history of investing Warren Buffet and not some finance bro right? Why would you cope so hard for? Learn from the best, his trading record is filed online, you can just follow and win, it’s that easy, you don’t need to reinvent the wheel
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u/zeppo_shemp 21h ago
like they just realized tariffs are economic poison.
of tariffs are poison why does the EU have average 39% tariffs on US goods? https://imgur.com/a/QIpmtYG
why are tariffs a crisis only when the US imposes them on foreign goods?
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u/thewimsey 20h ago
why does the EU have average 39% tariffs on US goods?
They don't. Not even close.
The average is around 1%. A total of €3 billion in 2023.
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/qanda_25_541
How can you even exist in the real world if you gullibly believe the first answer that AI gives you on the internet, without applying any form of common sense?
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u/optiontrader1138 22h ago
any first-year undergrad in econ could tell you: tariffs are bad
There's the problem right there. What's happening is a lot more complicated than that
Trump is pushing for peace in Ukraine and extensive drilling at home to drop oil prices. Oil prices are a major driver of costs for everything. The leading inflation indicator dropped to 1.35% yesterday which is not just low, it's extraordinarily low. So while everyone with a first year understanding of how tariffs work is screaming their heads off, a few realize that there is actually a reasonable chance of this resetting global trade in favor of the US.
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u/DReddit111 21h ago edited 21h ago
You do get that the tariffs have been in place for a few days, not enough to start an inflation storm yet. These tariffs average 23%. Companies aren’t going to be able to absorb all of that without losing money, some of that is going to pass on to consumers in at least a large one time shock. You just have to wait a few months until the old inventory that’s not tariffed runs out.
Yes the Truflation index is dropping, but could that be from economic activity slowing down because of all the uncertainty and chaos?
That coupled by the fact that the people who came up with the tariffs plan didn’t rigorously and thoughtfully figure it out and basically got the plan from ChatGPT has spooked the markets even more. The markets panic is due largely to the growing evidence that those in charge are a bunch of incompetents. Even if you believe in the goals of balancing world trade in favor of the US is a good thing, a big if, the execution so far has been a train wreak.
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u/optiontrader1138 14h ago
Define what an inflation storm is.
I'm looking at an analysis right now that estimates the net impact on consumer prices if all current tariffs take effect and are not cut, to be 2.5%. And that also assumes 100% passthrough to consumers.
The Truflation index is dropping primarily due to oil. Working that into the numbers and we end up with +0.8% net impact on consumers.
I could easily envision a scenario in which a modest tax cut is rolled out, making this a net gain for the average consumer.
Also, the execution was intended to be a train wreck. I don't know how anyone could look at the history of the Trump presidencies and conclude that he is an orderly, predictable man. This is intentional.
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u/Top_Obligation_3813 23h ago
OP: "Tariffs are only good when implemented against the US, der duh der" fixed it for you
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u/Nearby_Wrangler5814 23h ago
You’re so misguided. You can do basic research to see Trump isn’t telling the truth about that
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u/ShortRevolution6368 21h ago
Or you could just realize that Trump is the only person to blame here.
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u/Spuckler_Cletus 1d ago
If tariffs are so bad, it makes you wonder why so many other nations impose them on us.
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u/BumblaczanSodu 1d ago
You mean this piece of garbage that trump presented? They werent tariffa on US but trade deficit.
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u/Creepy_Floor_1380 1d ago
Which nation? Be precise, you know that the table present by Trump is simply wrong about foreign tariffs on American goods. Plus if you look at big economic players (eu and China) they don’t use tariffs regularly, probably only on single products.
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u/Spuckler_Cletus 1d ago
If you seriously wish to argue other nations simply play fair with us, including not using protective tariffs, then there’s really nothing for me to say to you. I’m not chasing my tail just to have you claim it’s all bunk, or to start posting links from some “economist” who’s a Keynesian, etc.
Go waste someone else’s time.
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u/Henrarzz 1d ago
They asked you a very simple question - which nation imposes tariffs on the USA.
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u/Spuckler_Cletus 1d ago
Nope. It’s not a simple question, and I’m not wasting my time with politically motivated smoke and mirrors.
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u/inconsistent3 1d ago
Oh but you do spend your time sharing misinformation. How noble of you. We don’t buy your bullshit. This downturn is solely on Trump. Republicans in congress can stop this madness but they don’t. It’s a cult.
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u/spokchewy 23h ago
Will it be “playing fair” when most foreign nations simply form an anti-American alliance and isolate the US further?
That sounds pretty smart if you ask me, and in some ways well deserved.
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23h ago
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u/JonnyHopkins 23h ago
Right, kinda - but this seems like an unnecessary manufactured recession, driven by politics.
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23h ago
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u/ozovzk 22h ago
Inflation was already going down. These tariffs are going to be inflationary.
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22h ago
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u/SippieCup 22h ago
He wants to renegotiate existing bonds to lower rates so he can “renegotiate America’s debt” - Even though you can’t even do that, as they aren’t variable and are a legal contract. If he were to somehow do that, the bond market would become worthless overnight as there would be no confidence in it and we would be even more screwed.
So no, he isn’t driving people to bonds, and if he is, it is only so he can try and screw them again.
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u/JonnyHopkins 22h ago
Investing is saving, in the context of beating down inflation, no?
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u/D74248 22h ago
I am old enough to have been through a few recessions and corrections. And yes, we are overdue for both.
But this is not normal. This is not part of an economic cycle. This is a lunatic rearranging the store with a baseball bat.
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u/SuperFlyAlltheTime 1d ago
All the 7 - 8 salary MBA turds on wall Street are mediocre people with rich families. They absolutely follow the hive mind mentality in which money matters above all else. There is nothing special about them other than they were born in better environments than others.
In other words they are rich idiots