r/marvelstudios • u/Extension-While7536 • Jan 31 '25

Discussion The scrutiny and double standards is exactly why Sam gives back the shield in "Falcon and The Winter Soldier"

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/disney-marvel-captain-america-brave-new-world-politics-1236122701/

Bucky's line "I don't think we realized what it actually meant for a black man to hold the shield" was his sign that he understood the greater scrutiny, racism and double standards that Sam would encounter. Same as the shit Mackie's facing now.

EDIT: Anyone who criticizes FATWS however justly for its faults, can we not give Marvel some credit for hearing our demands and giving us an hourlong loop of Zemo dancing within DAYS of the episode? I mean c'mon that's fan service.

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u/StellarNeonJellyfish Jan 31 '25

I think all the problems that bucky had were what made him the perfect choice. Coming back from such a low darkness, being inspired by steve, adopting his ideals, and when steve retires, taking up his mantel could have been a poetic arc. I dont think anyone could really be “happy” about replacing him, but either option opens up new story telling opportunities, so it makes sense for them to develop the universe by shifting the focus into more topical subjects.

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u/Forsaken_Professor79 Spider-Man Jan 31 '25

yea that's great and all but Bucky still killed JFK and Howard Stark. Mind controlled of course but the optics of that is crazy...granted believable now in the real world.

John Walker executed a (almost) terrorist in a horrific way and went crazy and he was stripped of the mantle....that should tell you something. Bucky simply wasn't prepared for that role.

And the people he cite "the comics" miss the fact....Sam actually was Cap before Bucky by a whole decade albeit very very short lived (two issues) and the moment it was revealed to the world Bucky was the Winter Soldier arrested and taken to trial for all his crimes. Bucky also didn't want to be Cap and was persuaded by guilt ridden Tony after he misinterpreted Steve's letter.

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u/ScreamingGordita Jan 31 '25

John Walker executed a (almost) terrorist in a horrific way

Thank god we've come around to people seeing that was horrible. The amount of defense I saw for him when that episode aired was concerning.

Then again, it was at the height of BLM so I'm sure there were unfortunately some people thrilled watching Cap brutally murder an activist.

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u/Forsaken_Professor79 Spider-Man Jan 31 '25

I wouldn’t call the Flag Smashers activists. They were insurgents and were well on their way to being full on terrorists thanks to the serum.

The guy wasn’t innocent but he didn’t deserve that death. He was unarmed and basically surrendered….he also wasn’t the one responsible for Battlestars death.

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u/CulturalDragonfly631 Jan 31 '25

They were terrorists by the mid-point of the show, terrorists who murdered their hostages by firebombing them.

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u/Forsaken_Professor79 Spider-Man Jan 31 '25

Honestly don’t remember that. I shouldve wrote “at that point”. I need to do a rewatch because I don’t even remember who they held hostage other than the GRC near the end which at that point they were terrorists.

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u/CulturalDragonfly631 Jan 31 '25

Remember the building Karli bombed? There were captives tied up inside it when the bomb went off, and several of them were killed.

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u/Forsaken_Professor79 Spider-Man Jan 31 '25

Again I honestly don’t but I take your word. I’m going to rewatch anyway leading up to BNW. Sam was way too empathetic imo but then again so was Steve.

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u/[deleted] Feb 03 '25

Finally someone that is reasonable.

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u/supercalifragilism Feb 03 '25

Yup- the removal of the pandemic story line (while understandable) left then with a characterization hole they could only fix with a puppy kick to let you know they were bad

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u/ScreamingGordita Jan 31 '25

Okay but at THAT point it was literally just Karli that was super into murdering, the others were just "also there". Dude absolutely did not deserve to get decapitated by a shield but alright man.

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u/CulturalDragonfly631 Jan 31 '25

They still went along with everything she wanted to do.

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u/Particular_Peace_568 Black Widow (CA 2) Feb 05 '25

But he still didn't deserve to get decapitated by the freaking shield like he was a pianta.

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u/[deleted] Feb 03 '25

No they were terrorist.

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u/ScreamingGordita Jan 31 '25

Fair. Don't know why someone downvoted me for a simple mistake lol but fair.

Also, at that point Karli was the only one doing the murdering so I guess he was terrorist adjacent? Tomato potato.

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u/CulturalDragonfly631 Jan 31 '25

If someone is a member of a terrorist cell that is doing murderous things, then they are culpable for the things that cell does.

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u/charlesfluidsmith Feb 01 '25

I don't know about that, I'm black and had no issue with it.

And I lean left. Those folks that murdered his best friend.

They got what they got.

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u/ScreamingGordita Feb 01 '25

The unarmed guy who literally had nothing to do with the murder absolutely did not "get what he got" but okay man. Can't believe this is still a topic of debate lmao.

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u/[deleted] Feb 03 '25

He helped hold walker down will his friends was killed.

And he wasn't unarmed he was a super-soldier.

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u/charlesfluidsmith Feb 01 '25

He was a Flagsmasher. Flagsmashers killed his friend.

C'est la vie

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u/ScreamingGordita Feb 03 '25

How wildly reductive.

I can think of another person that clumped everyone into one group of people and thought they didn't deserve to live, can't remember the name for some reason. It'll Hit me at some point.

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u/[deleted] Feb 03 '25

They were terrorist.

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u/[deleted] Feb 03 '25

Is wasn't an almost terrorist he was a fucking terrorist.

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u/shogi_x Jan 31 '25

Yes, I think that could have been a good story arc if Bucky had been developed that way, but he wasn't. At the moment when Steve hands over the shield Bucky hadn't really even begun a redemption arc. He's been hiding out in Wakanda trying to get his memories back. Mentally he is in no way ready to take up the shield and narratively it would be a massive leap to skip over him making amends for his past.

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u/Particular_Peace_568 Black Widow (CA 2) Feb 05 '25

Bucky's Whole arc ever since freaking Winter Soldier is that he been trying his Damnest to get out of the fight and every time somebody whether it's the government itself asking him (See probably Thunderbolts), Steve asking him, The Freaking King of Wakanda himself asking, or Sam having a blond moment and giving up the Shield and forcing Bucky to go back into the fight. The last thing that the Bucky Barnes character wanted is to be Captain America a Guy who always have to be ready for a fight.

Sam wants that life, Bucky just want to chill somewhere in a middle of nowhere and read Tolkien books for the rest of his life.