What happened to the Sith Academy on KOTOR? Is it still there or is it completely destroyed? (During Prequel & OT era)

Something that irritated me a bit about how the New Jedi Order series handled the Yuuzhan Vong was the explanation for their ‘absence’ in the Force. Books like the Edge of Victory duology and Traitor seem to imply that the Yuuzhan Vong are, in fact, connected to the Force - it’s just that the way they’re connected to the Force is so utterly alien and unlike anything else seen in the galaxy that the Jedi can’t understand it, hence why they can’t detect Yuuzhan Vong presences and why they need to invent the Vongsense technique. But The Final Prophecy and The Unifying Force go on to totally reject this very intriguing and thematic concept - since the series has a big emphasis on the Jedi re-evaluating their perceptions of the Force and their role in the galaxy - and instead says that the Yuuzhan Vong were just cut off from the Force by their homeworld. I feel like if they’d kept the first explanation as the definitive one, then the Yuuzhan Vong wouldn’t be so controversial since they wouldn’t ‘break’ the lore in such a manner that they’re often accused of doing.

So I've been skimming through this - The Empire Strikes Back – First Draft by Leigh Brackett (Transcript) – Starkiller

I always thought an OT trilogy without Vader being Anakin would be kind of arc-less and empty, but having read it I can see how it could have continued on to an interesting story.

It seems almost like in this stage of the vision for the saga, Luke was Anakin, with Leia as his Padme, and Vader his Palpatine (with Palpatine himself as a greater threat Vader wants to overthrow once he has Luke). Luke's lust for Leia and the "love triangle" is a bigger deal here.

For one thing, Vader can summon Luke for psychic talks, the way Kylo can to Rey in TLJ. Vader tempts Luke with almost Biblical visions of how powerful he could be if he goes dark, promising him he'll have all the power to take Leia from Han. During the Dagobah training, Vader speaks to Luke from his castle, where he has 3 gargoyle like pets he plays with and throws meat to. He feels more like a dark uncle than a father in this version. And it feels like he could potentially tempt Luke. Vader in general seems to have more humour here.

There's a part where Luke visibly turns to the "dark force" (as the script says) during the final duel, - his face becomes "dark and unfamiliar", and he starts to best Vader before Vader re-gains the upper hand, telling him it's just taste of how powerful he'd be if he let Vader train him. The whole thing is kind of similar to the Rey/Kylo fight in TFA imo. In fact, the end of the fight seems more like an early version of ROTJ, with Luke renouncing the dark for good and making himself vulnerable rather than turn.

Also Vader seems to be able to transport the two of them to have conversations some virtual realm where they are giant in space and Vader can hold and throw stars in his hand to demonstrate his power.

Also on Dagobah, Yoda (here called Minch) fearfully tells Luke that he has more power than any Jedi he's seen before, and that's why the chance of Luke turning dark scares him. Not only is this reminiscent of TLJ, it also strikes me as the first ever SW content to reveal that there's something special/over-powered about the Skywalker line.

Also, Yoda/Minch has a sabre duel with Obi Wan's ghost to prove to Luke that he's Jedi Master.

There's a longer Bespin "dinner" scene where Leia and Han are actually forced to sit and dine with Vader for a whole conversation. Lando is a clone, and he has a foster father called Bahiri who's death is what pushes him to help the heroes. (with there being no Fett or Han freezing here.)

there's also a plot line about Han's stepfather/potential real father being a crime lord, similar to Xixor in power (but human I think), who Han has to persuade to join the alliance - we don't meet him here - the film ends with them flying off to find him.

There's a Wampa attack on the Hoth base which others have likened to the film Aliens.

I think the parts of fandom that notoriously disliked TESB at the time would have actually preferred this version. It's more in the spirit of the first film and without the darker, most shocking moments (no Vader as anakin, no hand cut off, no frozen Han). It even canonizes the "blade in the air" pose from the classic ANH posters as a "Jedi salute" Luke gives to the Falcon as it flies off.

I'd be fascinated to know where film 3 would have gone if this was made. I feel like Vader would have still ended up redeemed somehow or at least defeated the Emperor, even if it was more just out of regrets and self defence than love for Luke. The script tells us he spends time thinking darkly about his betrayal. I don't think his redemption would have been as complete as the Vader we know, but I can see him as a Gollum or even Jacen Solo figure doing some last act to help the heroes.

I haven't read any High Republic media, but from some of the posts here as well as elsewhere I've seen many people say that the depiction of the Jedi Order in those media is more "healthy"; there's less problematic policies, highly dogmatic or inflexible figures seem less prominent or to have less influence, and Jedi's individual issues seem to be given more concern and attention. I'm mentioning those aspects because they seem to get brought up a lot when people are discussing the incidents around Anakin, Dooku, Bariss and Ahsoka and how "the Order did them wrong".

I'm not interested in rehashing those arguments, but assuming that the High Republic represented a "healthier" order and the Clone Wars era order was more dysfunctional, I'm wondering an intended theme of the Acolyte was to show the beginnings of the breakdown, to answer "how did we get here"? You had a leader of the order beginning to bow to political pressure and covering up her failure with a student, a highly dogmatic Jedi who wasn't taken seriously by his peers but had obviously begun to take the teachings in a more extreme direction, and multiple Jedi with unresolved trauma due to the cover-up of a mission. Do you think this would have been a theme of the show if it had continued? Were they supposed to be the exception of the time? Or have I been misinformed about the Order as portrayed in the High Republic and it's basically just the same old $#!#, different century?

Suppose Zaarin doesn't take the bait and get blown up by the greatest TIE pilot in the galaxy... and continues to wage an insurgency against the Empire with his dwindling numbers of advanced starfighers. Let's say that he manages to inspire the Trachta, Bartam, Kadir, and other similar coupist types to come crawling out of the woodwork, creating a "secularist" imperial faction opposed to the pseudo-Sith theocracy. Are there any Tarkinists around besides Daala, who is in a remote backwater?

As Zaarin is somehow linked to Arden Lyn (kind of a silly decision to mash up the lore of two unrelated video games together), he clearly is aware of the dark side powers of Palpatine and Vader, and could possibly rage against that on the Holonet. Then again, the common citizen of the galaxy probably neither knows about the Force nor cares by the time of the civil war.

If he's smart, he either strikes a truce with the Rebel Alliance or just agree to get out of each other's way. Either way, the Imperial military probably focuses on stomping Zaarin's forces out, as they pose a greater conventional threat than the Rebels. I would assume he would have no interest in allying with them. But just imagine if he survives long enough to swoop in during the Battle of Endor and start attacking both fleets with his fancy advanced TIE variants!

Could this happen, or was his personality just inevitably the end of him? Especially if Thrawn gets dispatched to finish him off completely?

Dunno how to say it - I believe that in fiction, all narrators are unreliable, unless there is "The Narrator", serving as a proxy for author-commentary (in Star Wars it is opening crawl), or "Word of God" notes. Basically I think that all info, aside from info said by author - is subjective.

For example, when Qui-Gon explains to Anakin how force works in Episode 1 - it is probably equivalent to how pre-teens are taught about cycle of water - a very simple version based on truth, but it omits a lot of concepts that would be hard to understand for a child.

Or it could be PR-friendly version that doesn't scare of people from joining Jedi. Or it could be just Qui-Gon personal view on the force, that the majority of Jedi disagree with.

What are other "facts" in Star Wars lore, that you consider to be subjective info, and actually it works differently than presented in lore?

Title. Shortly after Endor, the New Republic demilitarized on top of being decentralized. Both of these were out of fear that another Palpatine-like figure could lead to dictatorship again. But the reason Palpatine rose to power was not because of centralization and militarization, it was because the Republic was already corrupt even without Palpatine's interference, had no real military besides what were pretty much just a police force-style thing and the Jedi who, themselves, were incapable of fighting a war for the Republic even at their highest number during the twilight of the Republic.

If the Republic had its own, real, military force under the command of the Supreme Chancellor and the Supreme Chancellor had the executive authority enough to be able to handle crises without needing to always get permission from the Senate (in other words, a clearly defined separation of powers that would have allowed for things to happen differently), it could have been able to handle anything that came up. Had the Old Republic had a military, the Trade Federation's blockade of Naboo that catapulted Senator Palpatine into the role of Supreme Chancellor would never have happened. They could have sent a force, with Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan along for the ride, to put an end to it. And had the Supreme Chancellor had clearly defined powers and limits to those powers, there would never have been a need for the Galactic Senate to keep handing things over to Palpatine had he become Supreme Chancellor some other way. Jar Jar would never have been able to give emergency power to Palpatine and the banks (InterGalactic Banking Clan, I think) would never have been able to give the office of the Supreme Chancellor the banks. Plus, when Mace Windu had tried to arrest Palpatine and told Anakin that Palpatine had control over the Senate and the courts, that would also not have been a concern.

Mon Mothma seemingly was around from the time of the blockade of Naboo and obviously up to the time she resigned from her office, she would have known this stuff.

So my questions are:

1. Wouldn't demilitarization and decentralization have led to the problems that caused the Old Republic to fall anyway? My reasoning for that is that the clones were needed because they had no standing military after the Ruusan Reformation because the New Sith Wars messed things up (or whatever the canon equivalent is now). The poorly defined power of the Supreme Chancellor in the Old Republic was in response to the powers that office had after said New Sith Wars (again or w/e the canon equivalent is).

2. Would keeping the New Republic's existing military or increasing it have been a better thing for the New Republic in the face of the threat of the First Order and neo-Imperials/neo-Imperial sympathizers?

As I mentioned in another post, I've been listening to the Fate of the Jedi series. While the conflict between Hammer and the rest of the Council made sense up until now, why doesn't Kammer tell the rest of the council about his deal with Admiral Bwua'tu. Most of the Council are ex-military ranging from service in the Empire & Rebellion during the Galactic Civil War to of course the Yuuzhan Vong and Second Galactic Civil War. So, they understand concepts like classified and being on a need-to-know basis. Especially when the payoff is having a full naval task force to back them and Luke up against the Sith.

I'm listening through the Mask of Fear audiobook, and someone mentions that Saw Gerrara had been considered for a Governor position by Palpatine because he's loyal to his homeworld, but that it didn't end up working out, partly because of the Empire requiring the demilitarization of his group.

Saw is also described as someone who thinks of himself as a victimized martyr, and anything that goes against that enrages him.

What if Palpatine had played his cards the right way, pulled the right strings, and Saw accepted a gubernatorial position?

Presumably the Partisans wouldn't have continued existing without such a charismatic leader at their helm (or at least would be much less successful).

Does this affect the formation of the Rebel Alliance at all? Does the Death Star still get destroyed when it does, given the small butterfly effect changes that happen when you take him out of the equation through the events of Rogue One?

Ironically, given how there’s been a lot of discourse regarding the inconsistency between Jacen Solo’s characterisation in New Jedi Order and his subsequent transformation into Darth Caedus, I actually reckon the latter’s characterisation works quite well for a hypothetical ‘Sith Jaina’, who always seemed to have darker and more militaristic tendencies compared to her brother. It also makes you wonder exactly what Jedi Master Jacen Solo would’ve ended up looking like…

So, in both the Legends and current Canon, corporations like the Trade Federation (Canon and Legends) and Czerka (Legends) and the financial institutions like the InterGalactic Banking Clan (Canon and Legends) were permitted into the Senate and given representation. Why? How did that happen? And was anyone able to see why that would potentially be a problem? I know in TCW, some people comment on it. And Palpatine talks about in TPM (though he was using it for his own gain). I know that Palpatine (and his predecessors) engineered the Republic into corruption but even before the Banite Sith, there was corruption like that (such as during the era of Revan's Sith Empire and after the Reconstituted Sith Empire of Vitiate) for what seems like forever.

I’ve been playing Star Wars Outlaws and I’m truly addicted to the really well done mini-games. Conceptually I’m really taken with the arcade shooter, a really creative mini game, that feels like a bit like a first person Galaga with lots of design elements inspired by the original Star Wars arcade game. It’s framed as an arcade game made by denizens of the SW Galaxy, which really got my thoughts rolling with using that idea for an entire game.

I think this would be a cool way to continue the always in Canon approach that every Star Wars piece of media goes for currently, reimagining that concept itself and bringing your immersion with the Star Wars universe even closer, being able to easily meet fan demands that could break attempts at establishing coherence in the continuity. I’ve outlined some basic concepts I’ve thought up just to illustrate how far you could take this approach.

• The Princess of Alderaan, a Zelda style top down adventure/dungeon crawler developed well after The Rise of Skywalker letting the player control the legendary Luke Skywalker from humble beginnings as a farm boy to redeeming his Sith Lord father and saving the galaxy. The game is framed as “historical fiction” piecing together Luke’s story from historical accounts and embellishing in the unknown. Much of the intimate detail of what actually happened in the OT is unknown to the developers, so they have to adapt and create their own version of the narrative.

• Imagine what the Star Wars galaxy equivalent to Super Mario Bros might be like. That’s what this game would be: a 3D cartoon-style platformer all about squashing enemies, collecting items and power-ups, and exploring various Worlds, with a cast of unique mascot characters. Would resemble Star Wars about as much as Mario resembles our reality, this would be what “cartoons” are like in that galaxy.

• Heroes of the Republic, this is a bit similar to the first idea but with a distinct twist. Specifically developed as Clone Wars-era propaganda, this would be a co-op beat ‘em up starring Anakin and Obi-Wan, greatly exaggerating their abilities and stories to assure and excite the children of the Republic (inspired by the ROTS novelization and the Clone Wars micro-series). The gameplay would be inspired by ps2 era beat em ups such as MK Shaolin Monks or God of War, with the overall style and tone informed by Metal Gear Rising Revengeance. Incredibly over the top and stylized, almost anime take. A direct Star Wars comparison could be a spiritual remake of the ROTS game, or a co-op take on The Force Unleashed.

• Blood of the Krayt, a non-linear fantasy action game, developed as an adaptation of a galaxy-wide top-selling series of complex fantasy novels. Essentially, somewhat like the second game, think of this as what the Star Wars in universe equivalent of The Witcher would be. This might be a bit of a hat on top of a hat, as it’s really two ideas: what does “knights and dragons” type fantasy look and operate like within Star Wars, and therefore what would their fantasy RPGs look like? I imagine this playing less like Witcher actually, more inspired by Fromsoft’s titles and 3D Zelda but reimagining typical fantasy tropes directing in a Star Wars context.

Like I said, these are just concepts but I think it’s an idea with a surprising amount of potential

For instance, Darth glovac, and Sorzus syn are two of my underrated favourites.

In Attack of the Clones, on Geonosis we see Dooku is given the initial prototype for the design of the death star. Was it originally supposed to be a weapon designed for the Separatists to use, and then Dooku handed it over to Palpatine? I know the Geonosians also directly helped build the actual station itself (and piss off Krennic with their antics in the process) but I'm trying to understand how involved they were from the very beginning.

Bit of a crazy idea, but do you think that Vestara Khai as she was characterised in Fate of the Jedi could function as a member of the Knights of Ren from current canon, given what we learn about their ‘chaotic evil’ philosophy regarding the dark side in The Rise of Kylo Ren and other supplementary material? Or is her character too ingrained in Sith ideals for her to be a logical member of any other dark side faction (without significantly altering her character, anyway)?

So, I am listening to the Fate of the Jedi series, and I cannot fathom how a former Imperial warlord who wiped out entire cities of innocent civilians, couldn't lead a successful military campaign to save her life, and et cetera. So how is it possible that she became Chief of State for the GA?

Edit: This isn't a place for real world politics, and even if you want to make the connection, there is a big difference between *insert real world politican* and a warlord who wiped out defenseless cities because they were mad.

Basically had Ahsoka been successfully killed on the venator as soon as order 66 was given, and the venator continues its journey to Corusant with Maul secured.

Now Sidious could order his death right then and there as they land, but he is dealing with the final stage of destroying the Jedi and the preparation for the declaration of the new order, and Maul is secured and I wouldn't put it above him wanting to rub it in Maul's face one final time before having him killed.

So the events of Revenge of the Sith go the same, with Anakin being burned on Mustafar.

So in this type of situation, would:

Sidious bother saving Anakin since he now has another potential option.

And even if he does, would he make Maul and Vader fight for who gets to be his apprentice?

I am not saying Maul would want to ever be Sidious's apprentice again after all he did to Maul, but if it was the only other option rather than being imprisoned or killed, I'd think he would go for it.

Further more were there any non clone troopers organized forces used by the republic I’d imagine something akin to an Umbaran militia but for the republic

I’m watching the movie right now and I remember the opening crawl mentions the council sending two Jedi Knights to rescue Palpatine. Obi Wan is on the council and given Anakin’s speech about being the only one ever on the council not being a master, it’s strongly implicated that Obi Wan is a master. So why did the title crawl mention the two Jedi Knights? Was he promoted for helping save Palpatine maybe? It doesn’t make sense to me I’d really appreciate some insight

He wanted Luke alive surely, he explicitly stated ‘skywalker is with them’ so he wants him alive. Surely his original plan of orbital bombardement risks killing him?

'Dyad' is a sith doctrine. Supposedly, an old prophecy. Prophecies always are.

Only two wayfinders were made. Those were old artifacts. And they would land your prophesized ass on the hidden sith citadel of Exegol.

So maybe the dyad prophecy was something like this:

One day, someone will be sitting again on the Exegol throne. We'll be avenged through the dyad. The Man On The High Castle Of Exegol, being all the sith, will be destroyed, and in this way, through death, the sith will be reborn

Note how Kylo knows about the dyad and he also knows Palpatine doesn't know. Who told him? Maybe Kylo was the (off screen) dyad sith's prophesized champion, their Paul Atreides so to speak.

I guess the dyad sith were still around by the end of TROS.

As for Exegol, Palpatine says the throne is Rey's by birth. So it was also his by birth. The throne is ancient, so maybe an ancestor of Palpatine sat there once (According to the 2014 Mizzlewump leak, the 2nd draft for Ep.VII stated how the sith had been created by an ancestor of Palpatine called Ruin. The apprentice in 7 was also named Ruin. [Kylo]Ren=Ruin?)

So, I was a huge Star Wars fan as a kid. I watched all the films from the first two trilogies and really liked The Clone Wars series as a teenager. I stopped following the show after Season 5 ended, and by the time The Force Awakens came out, I had kind of grown out of it (though I did watch the premiere).

A few days ago, I decided to check out the new Kenobi series, and I felt the need to write down all my thoughts and share them with someone—partly because I’ve started getting into cinematography and wanted to. So if you have time to waste, feel free to read on. Keep in mind I haven’t consumed much of the newer Star Wars content, and aside from watching the Episode VII premiere nearly 10 years ago, this is my first real encounter with the Disney-era material. 1. The acting is honestly pretty bad and unconvincing, and the characters don’t help much either.

Apart from Ewan McGregor, who did the same job like he did in the prequels, no one really grabbed my attention. Though to be fair, maybe the writing is to blame, giving the actors so little to work with. Flea and that Ice Cube’s son felt completely out of place. At one point I caught myself thinking, “How much did Flea have to pay to get into this franchise?”

1. Reva is horrible.

Possibly one of the worst character portrayals I’ve ever seen. Nothing about her fits the story. Besides the fact that I personally think the whole idea of the Inquisitors is dumb, every time she appeared on screen, I got this mild stomach ache like I knew something cringey or just plain bad was about to happen. And how did she end up turning good?!?! Who thought that was good writing? Have these screenwriters ever read a book? Or even a comic? Even Marvel handles character arcs better than this—and yes, I mean Marvel. Also, mind-reading? Really? Since when?

1. The dialogue is a mess.

Lines and phrases often don’t flow naturally, and even the few that hit an emotional note feel totally out of place in the Star Wars universe. The only character interaction I found remotely interesting was between Obi-Wan and that scammer Haja. At this point, I genuinely doubt that anyone involved in writing this show has read anything thicker than a restaurant menu.

1. On the technical side, it’s all pretty mediocre.

The stunts feel amateurish, the costumes are weak, and the special effects are surprisingly underwhelming—especially when trying to de-age Anakin. He still looks like a 40-year-old man. The camera work isn’t great either. I just don’t understand how Disney, with all its money, resources, and talent, managed to produce something worse than what George Lucas did in 1999–2005. He had less money, older technology, and still managed to make something far more convincing. Jar Jar Binks did a better job selling himself as an alien than almost anything in this show.

Now, I know all this probably makes me sound like a bitter old hag, so I’ll admit: there are a few good things here.

The overall concept is solid. Obi-Wan being crushed by the reality of life under the Empire—the atmosphere of fear and hopelessness eroding his desire to help others—is a great direction. At the start of the show, he’s not the same man we knew, and that works.

The portrayal of the Force in combat is also done well. When Vader rips that ship apart or uses the Force to push that massive stone during the final fight—that’s the kind of power I imagine the Force should have during battle.

The final duel between Obi-Wan and Vader is actually quite good. It could’ve been better, sure, but it’s how I imagine a proper lightsaber fight should feel. The Original Trilogy had technical limitations and a lack of clarity what lightsaber combat should look like, while the prequels went overboard with flashy choreography and "sword hitting a sword" fights. This one found a more grounded balance.

That said, some moments felt like lazy callbacks. The reunion between Vader and Obi-Wan uses the same lines from Revenge of the Sith, which was clearly meant as a tribute—but it came off as cheap. Instead of cleverly building something original, the show relies heavily on nostalgia, flashbacks, and recycled emotions (Vader vs. Obi-Wan, youngling slaughter, etc.). With talented filmmakers, this could’ve been done well. But here, it feels like a budget Spanish soap opera.

The whole thing gave me the impression of a fan-made project—something by cosplayers or LARP enthusiasts. At least to me. I don’t want to insult anyone’s taste.

Final thought: Disney is milking the Star Wars brand for easy profit. They don’t care about quality. George Lucas should never have sold his company. Star Wars might have been better off continuing with animation style filmmaking. I think animation suits this kind of sci-fi world far more than these poorly executed live-action attempts.

There’s just so much potential for this era that I feel was wasted due to the cancellation of the EU, since we only really got the Darth Bane trilogy (with only the first book actually taking place during the conflict) and the Knight Errant novel and comic book series. I honestly hope that once they wrap up the High Republic this year, they seriously consider using this era for their next big initiative - I know they said they weren’t going to do Old Republic content until SWTOR is finished, but let’s be honest - there’s no way that game is touching this era.

Asking about both Legends and Canon here. Obviously during the Original Trilogy, Palpatine is the #1 most powerful person in the Empire, while Vader is #2. Is there a canonical third most powerful individual next to those two?

Is it Tarkin, Thrawn, Mas Amedda or someone else? I could see it being Tarkin, he was obviously high ranking enough to tell Vader what to do in ANH. What do you guys think?

Let's say Cal exists in Legends. What surviving Jedi would be best to take Cal under their wing in a Cere like role?