r/politics • u/PoliticsModeratorBot 🤖 Bot • Feb 28 '25

Discussion Discussion Thread: Press Conference with US President Donald Trump and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy

News and Analysis:

Live Updates:

Relevant text-based live update pages are being maintained by the following outlets: AP, NBC, The Guardian, CNN (soft paywall), and The Washington Post (soft paywall).

Where to Watch:

1.1k Upvotes

98% Upvoted

5.0k comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

640

u/Donkletown Feb 28 '25

It’s not even just geopolitical strategists. My freaking grandfather got shot fighting Nazis in France. The ties that came out of that are being burned up by Trump. For what? Why is he even doing this?

Such a disgrace to everyone who helped build the western alliance and anyone who has western values. 

599

u/johnmedgla Great Britain Feb 28 '25

It's genuinely baffling to me.

Do Americans not understand why the US spent seven decades being more than happy that the other NATO nations weren't building massive militaries?

You can either have a world where you are the global hegemon and all your allies do what you say and are inextricably bound to your economy, or you can have a world where you demand Europe remilitarises to "pay its way" only to discover it no longer feels obliged to follow your lead.

There are literally thousands of very interesting books written by extremely clever people from the 40s to the 00s explaining the rationale of this and why it was a conscious decision made by US strategic planners, and it's all falling apart because "We're being taken advantage of" is a convenient line to get some cheap votes from idiots.

I don't think any global power has ever undermined its own interests so comprehensively before, it's breath taking.

470

u/Holden_Coalfield Feb 28 '25

It's not baffling at all once you accept the fact that he is a traitor and a russian agent

145

u/RocketSocket765 Feb 28 '25 edited Feb 28 '25

This. It's obvious Trump is a manchurian candidate. Trump, Musk and international oligarchs, theocrats, and misogynists are selling the U.S. off for scrap metal and using Christian white Nationalists to control the sheep and getting them to bleet for their own deaths.

30

u/radicalelation Feb 28 '25

It's the same playbook of pretty much every Russian-captured oligarch state. The times it fails is when the people are able to rise above the oligarchs, whether it's in properly functioning election, or unending protest.

10

u/RocketSocket765 Feb 28 '25 edited Mar 01 '25

We don't have proper elections. I get why the Dems swore we did after Trump/the GOP tried to steal 2020. But we haven't for a while because oligarchs and bigots teamed-up up to gut our election laws and muzzle opposition to protect capitalism. I increasingly suspect the GOP stole it in 2024. We had rampant oligarch spending, widespread Russian govt social media disinfo campaigns, and Jim Crow 2.0. That's before we even get into provisional ballots probably tossed by right wing zealots (look up "True the Vote") and whatever the hell Trump meant by Musk being really good with the computers at voting precincts in Pennsylvania. Or Musk's bizarre voter registration "lottery."

For protests, the civil society nonprofits that also partnered with Dem party to do those in the almost non-stop social unrest we've had since ~2016, even in the pandemic, are not organizing massive protests now. Protests are great for showing numbers, but often become state sanctioned parades if not directed at shutting down commerce or GOP interests. Some orgs clearly also got infiltrated just like the 1960's (not reported, but obvious with some in tatters). Since the Dems and many orgs won't do that as they won't rock the capitalism boat or risk getting nonprofit tax status rescinded, people are skipping the parades and figuring out how to do direct action to protect neighbors, friends, and family against fascism. I may be wrong, but I think the U.S. has too many who know their rights, pride in the diversity of who they are, and believe in self and community defense by any means necessary (or are coming around to it) to let fascists take over. They're just learning how to rebuild since they're used to pushing back other ways that have collapsed.

8

u/radicalelation Feb 28 '25

We have enough eligible voters to overwhelm most of the likely election hacks that could have given an unfair result for 2024. I honestly believe the effort to steal it was made in 2020 and the enormous turnout broke it.

Even on the outright stealing end, ballot stuffing, vote switching, whatever, ends up far less effective with more honest votes in the mix. The same could still happen 2026 before they tighten up their methods, otherwise I don't think we'll have Presidential elections in 2028.

Though, I think you're right that one way or another the people are going to say something. Loudly, and likely fiercely. I don't see us ending up quite like the centuries-beaten-down Russians, and they still rally and revolt plenty.

Leadership will show itself, and people will rally. What happens then is up in the air.