r/politics • u/sweatycat New York • 20h ago

California to Negotiate Trade With Other Countries to Bypass Trump Tariffs

https://www.newsweek.com/california-newsom-trade-trump-tariffs-2055414
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u/Nevermind04 Texas 19h ago

Felons absolutely can run for office. The reason Trump can't legally hold public office is because he engaged in insurrection.

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u/ameriCANCERvative 18h ago

Not just engaged in, led.

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u/Nevermind04 Texas 18h ago

While that's true, section 3 of the 14th amendment doesn't require a person to lead an insurrection to become disqualified from holding public office. It only requires one to "engage" in insurrection, regardless of what exact role they played in it. Every J6 terrorist is similarly disqualified.

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u/ameriCANCERvative 18h ago

Well, to be even more pedantic, 18 U.S. Code § 2383 makes a distinction between “incites” and “engages,” when it comes to insurrection, so perhaps he truly is eligible to be president if you go by the plain language? Perhaps “incites” is fine but “engages” is disqualifying?

Please note that I am NOT seriously arguing this point. I personally believe that this guy should receive the harshest punishment prescribed in 18 U.S. Code § 2381.

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u/Nevermind04 Texas 18h ago

18 U.S. Code § 2383 does initially make a distinction between those two roles, but equally disqualifies both from holding public office. It's a distinction without a difference in the context of this discussion.

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u/Datdarnpupper United Kingdom 18h ago

I personally believe that this guy should receive the harshest punishment prescribed in 18 U.S. Code § 2381.

God, imagine

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u/ameriCANCERvative 16h ago edited 16h ago

Wouldn’t it be nice if we were bolder?

Then we wouldn’t have to bite our tongues

And wouldn’t it be nice to hold them guilty

In the kind of world where justice runs?

You know it’s gonna make it that much better

When we can say they’re charged and under oath

Wouldn’t it be nice if we could wake up

In the morning when the day is new

And after watching trials on every channel

Feel proud of what our country chose to do?

——

Thanks chat gpt for helping me write a parody song about holding our leadership to account. It was genuinely a joint effort, I had to hold its hand.

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u/YouBlinkinSootLicker 15h ago

Naming every jan6th patriot as a fucking terrorist is wildly hilarious. Hyperbole leaks out of your face !

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u/Nevermind04 Texas 15h ago

Please, enlighten us as to why you believe the word "terrorist" doesn't apply to the group that unlawfully entered the capitol on January 6, 2021, shouting slogans and waving signs expressing their intentions to murder politicians, which eventually ended with 174 injured police officers, 5 dead police officers, and 4 dead participants.

terrorist
noun

a person who uses unlawful violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.

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u/YouBlinkinSootLicker 6h ago

dont move goalposts please

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u/Nevermind04 Texas 5h ago

So you aren't even going to try to defend your statement?

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u/tdager 13h ago

Look, I am not fan of trump and am glad that those that hurt police officers were held accountable, but outside of a small group of people the vast majority that entered the Whitehouse were simply in "mob mode" and had not intention, nor capability, to overthrow the US government.

So no, they were not terrorists, and IMO we toss that word around way to easily (including the current administration).

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u/Nevermind04 Texas 13h ago

Which part of that definition does not apply to the "mob" on January 6th?

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u/GrunchJingo 9h ago

had not intention

Dog, they stormed the fucking capitol, rooted through politician's desks, and were on a hunt to murder those politicians. What could their intention have possibly been other than to overthrow the US government?

the vast majority that entered the Whitehouse were simply in "mob mode"

They were in a mob to overthrow the government and install Trump as dictator. It doesn't matter that that's not how any of this works. That was their intention, that's why they were there, that's why they stormed the capitol.

Like, listen, I don't even think the word terrorist should exist. I think it's used to deprive people of human rights and make people ignore any crimes against humanity the state commits against them.

But given every single piece of evidence, how can you possibly claim that the J6 insurrectionists did not aim to overthrow the government?

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u/Prudent-Air1922 15h ago

It's actually a fact, but I know those don't matter to people like you.

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u/YouBlinkinSootLicker 6h ago

I saw little old ladies waving tiny flags, it was amazing

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u/redditlvlanalysis 14h ago

Naming terrorist insurrectionists who wanted to end the grand experiment as patriots is wildly hilarious

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u/YouBlinkinSootLicker 6h ago

its all about framing, you know this

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u/mrpeabody208 Texas 18h ago

He didn't lead, he merely incited... then retired to the Oval Office break room to pound Diet Cokes and watch the chaos he caused unfold on TV.

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u/ameriCANCERvative 16h ago

Fine.

I admit defeat in this battle of pedantry. “Incited” is definitely the most appropriate word to be used, but… to be just a bit more pedantic, I think your use of the word “merely” undersells the significance. “Incited” is on the same level as “led.” It’s actually more despicable, because as you say he took the coward’s way out.

We’d likely be a lot better off if he were on camera smearing his feces on the walls of the capitol instead of his degenerate mob, if he were the one packing the zip cuffs, etc.

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u/mrpeabody208 Texas 14h ago

I was shitting on him for being a cowardly stochastic terrorist.

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u/ameriCANCERvative 14h ago

Yeah me too. It’s even more shitty than him actually leading it. Little bitch sitting behind a tv screen watching his mob, blasting out bullshit tweets. Buffalo hat guy is probably the closest to a “leader” they had.

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u/Beldizar 15h ago

Before all the cases got thrown out, it sounded like he and those working for him actively bussed in certain individuals and connected them to people to give tours of the building so they would know where to go. So just giving the inciting speech wasn't all there was to it, at least from what I saw of the evidence presented before it was killed.

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u/queerhistorynerd 12h ago

unfortunately 70% of voters decided rule of law wasnt important

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u/greenearrow 18h ago

and felons SHOULD be able to run for office, I would even say during serving their term. Otherwise, we incentivize making our opponents into felons (you know, like through making marijuana a Schedule I drug).

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u/PaulTheMerc 18h ago

Just one question. Its fucking weed. WHY is that worth 10+ years to so many fucking people? I don't get it.

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u/Mavian23 18h ago

Because it was originally used as a way of targeting anti-war hippies back in the Nixon era. The War on Drugs was political.

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u/greenearrow 18h ago

Hippies, black people, and Latino people. It was to remove voting rights from groups that didn't align with Nixon, and to fill the prison system, which is the only place constitutionally allowed to provide slave labor.

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u/PaulTheMerc 18h ago

Right, that part makes sense. So the war came and went, war ended, hippies kept it up, I get that.

Why does the next generation go "yeah, getting high is worth the clearly disproportionate cost?"

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u/Reedstilt Ohio 17h ago

Those for-profit prisons aren't going to fill themselves.

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u/Mavian23 17h ago

Because part of the War on Drugs was convincing people that weed is terrible and worthy of going to prison for. Then those people raised their kids to think that. Combine that with all of the cultural elements that came out of the War on Drugs, like DARE, and you've got a recipe for good propaganda.

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u/GrunchJingo 9h ago

Things get instilled in the American psyche extremely quickly. Something can go from "atypical" or "unthinkable" to "how things have always been" in less than a decade.

Think about the 2nd amendment. When Reagan banned open carry to limit the ability of black activist groups to oversee police activity in their neighborhoods, the NRA was on his side. Legal scholars were on his side. Nearly every single article written about the 2nd amendment treated it as a right pertaining to state militias. Basically no one talked about an individual's right to have a gun. So when state militias weren't a thing, it stopped being a relevant part of the bill of rights.

In 2008 suddenly the 2nd amendment became about an individual's right to own a gun and everyone acted like it had always been that way. Now the majority of legal articles written about the 2nd amendment treat it as an individual right.

In 2000 it would be unthinkable that we would accept the US government spying on us. That's East Berlin shit. 9/11 happens and then people start saying "Well I've got nothing to hide." and acting like they were always ok with having their 4th amendment rights flagrantly violated.

So yeah, the war on drugs starts and it never ends and people think it's normal for the government to treat weed as a felony.

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u/fdar 17h ago

Enforcement if sporadic enough that most people don't think they'll get in trouble and evade prison if they do. Obviously it doesn't work that way for some people, but for example "legal" states have clearly labeled dispensaries and those aren't really raided much even if it's still federally illegal.

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u/Main_Tomatillo_8960 18h ago

Which is absolutely baffling…if normal jobs won’t hire most felons, why on earth are we accepting a felon in the highest office in the country? That’s insane hypocrisy.

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u/ThatsGenocide 17h ago

Because then the ruling party just makes being one of their political opponents a felony and never loses an election again.

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u/Main_Tomatillo_8960 17h ago

That’s what you think happened to Trump? He was targeted as a political opponent even though it was proven in court that he was guilty of the crimes he was accused of?

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u/Impastato 15h ago

They never said they thought that’s what happened to Trump. But that is the justification for why felons are allowed to run for office.

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u/ThatsGenocide 14h ago

No. That's not even close to what I said.

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u/forever4never69420 15h ago

The crime of inflating the square footage of his condo?! My God....

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u/Main_Tomatillo_8960 13h ago

How about the crime of raping a 13 year old child? Is that cool man?

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u/forever4never69420 12h ago

Making shit up or was there a court case I missed??

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u/blah938 17h ago edited 12h ago

He hasn't been convicted of that insurrection is the thing. So until that happens, he can still hold office.

Edit: Criminal Conviction.

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u/ViewBeneficial608 16h ago

He was actually found guilty of insurrection multiple times in court and by election officials, including the Colorado Supreme Court and by Republican appointed judges. In fact, every single time the merits of the case were looked at, Trump has been found to have engaged in insurrection.

The Supreme Court did not look at the question of whether Trump engaged in insurrection. The only reason they overturned the Colorado Supreme Courts decision was because they said Congress are the ones who have the power to determine it. Congress never held a trial.

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u/Nevermind04 Texas 17h ago

Where does the 14th amendment mention conviction?

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u/the_wyandotte 16h ago

You led an insurrection.

Source: me. But since it doesn't mention conviction, maybe my word is good enough....

The problem is, at the time it was incredibly obvious who was part of the Confederacy. There were army records, payments, votes for office, etc. Johnson also gave pardons to almost everyone involved, so they wouldn't have been convicted. And a later act in 1872 did away with even more.

I think it's incredibly obvious now that Trump led an insurrection Jan 6th, but the ball was dropped by not charging him with that in time. Justice delayed is justice denied, and now the whole world is suffering for it. Also the massive cowardice of the GOP to not impeach because "oh he's going to be out of office anyway". And Pence for not invoking the 26th. And Americans at large for continuing to put up with Trumps bullshit.

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u/Nevermind04 Texas 16h ago edited 9h ago

Luckily, you aren't a state election board so that accusation has no merit. State election boards in Colorado, Illinois, and Maine met and ruled that Trump was legally disqualified from appearing on ballots. Their reasoning was that listing a candidate on a ballot who can't even hold the office he is running for is confusing enough to qualify as voter deception. 7 other states had challenges pending. The SCOTUS defied the constitution and 155 years of precedent with their blatantly political ruling.