r/politics • u/harsh2k5 • 1d ago

Soft Paywall The Trump Administration Just Violated Another Court Order | It gets worse: The order found that the administration was covertly withholding millions in FEMA funds from blue states.

https://newrepublic.com/post/193650/trump-administration-just-violated-another-court-order
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u/Lord-Velveeta 1d ago

So what happens when citizens of the blue states like NYS and California who are bankrolling the red welfare states stop sending tax money to DC?

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u/NotA_Drug_Dealer Europe 1d ago

California is already floating negotiation of trade agreements with other countries independent of the federal government. Which, while illegal, shouldn't surprise anyone. Because illegal means nothing when the federal government doesn't follow its own laws.

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u/dublstufOnryo 1d ago

Unfortunately, I think California will still be expected by the lawless to follow laws. This is going to get extremely ugly.

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u/sgtgig 1d ago

All blue states need to do it in unison. Turn the illegal bullshit firehose back in their face.

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u/dublstufOnryo 1d ago

I agree, I just don’t think it’s going to happen anytime soon. I truly hope that I’m wrong, but I don’t have a lot of faith left.

I live in Oregon. I would love nothing more than for this to happen.

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u/MaddyKet 1d ago

New York is trying: https://www.localsyr.com/news/state-news/legislation-proposed-to-withhold-new-yorks-payments-to-the-federal-government/

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u/dublstufOnryo 1d ago

Here’s hoping that it starts something bigger, and that it works.

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u/occono 22h ago

While I think Trump and the Republican party are instigating it, the something bigger you're talking about is the incitement of civil war. That's what's going to happen. If his regime is taking taxes and denying benefits, he's pushing for civil war by the US government against blue states. And given his regime pushes for invasion of Greenland and even Canada, I imagine it's not looking for breaking up the country peacefully, it will be looking to turn all blue states red by mass violence if necessary.

I hate him, and the evil that falls in line with him, which is why I'd advise being realistic about what a tax strike by blue states is going to lead to. Look at what his party says about Greenland, look at what they did to blue states during COVID. I would temper your hope with realism that civil war is going to be a very bad time to live through, even if it's inevitable and started by evil people, hope might be an awkward word.

A constitutional convention that leads to peaceful dissolution is on the optimistic side of things. And if I'm wrong I'll be very very happy. Is the military going to follow his orders?

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u/ThinkyRetroLad America 16h ago

I don't want civil war by any means, but short of a tumultuous revolution by a disenfranchised group or other extreme political action soon (just being as vague and broad as possible here, Reddit), I am beginning to fear it is the only potential solution that isn't fascism for the country.

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u/occono 15h ago

All I was saying is, their wording was maybe a bit too optimistic, about where this is all being driven by the Trump regime.

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u/NotA_Drug_Dealer Europe 1d ago

California isn't the only state floating this idea currently. I can't recall the others but I believe there's like 2-3

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u/raptorlightning 22h ago

They are more than welcome to become tasty, tasty ground beef.

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u/NickelBackwash 23h ago

Republicans can be lawless. 

Dems must be flawless

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u/divDevGuy 22h ago

I'm still not sure how those agreements are supposed to work even if they were legal/valid, or even just a handshake, nod, and we'll see-what-we-can-do type of thing.

If I was another country, I'd acknowledge that California and similar states didn't ask for this trade war, but they are none the less still part of the "enemy". If my goods coming into the country are subject to arbitrary and unfair tariffs, then goods coming from the US should similarly be taxed, regardless of which state might have produced them.

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u/Vapur9 1d ago

Exactly. No taxation without representation. Using an ultimatum to coerce them to bend the knee bypasses their lawful Congressional appropriations.

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u/a__nice__tnetennba 1d ago

The problem is that it gets there via income taxes. So companies would have to stop sending it. You can't just go tell your employer to stop paying your taxes to the IRS for you.

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u/darkslide3000 1d ago

A state government can absolutely do that. Whether companies comply is a different question, but states have their own means of enforcement if necessary.

In the end that kind of escalation spiral would likely only last days before people start shooting anyway. Trump is a megalomaniac, he'd never shy away from using violence to get his way.

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u/divDevGuy 21h ago

A state government can absolutely do that.

Please, tell us all how a state government can absolutely do that.

Any answer that involves the company, responsible individuals at the company, or employees being subject to civil or criminal penalties at the federal level don't count.

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u/darkslide3000 7h ago

...by passing a law that says no company operating in the state is allowed to cooperate with the IRS and transfer payroll withholdings to it (e.g. either stating that they shouldn't withhold any pay at all, or that they should instead transfer them to a state agency which will hold them escrow for the time being)? And stipulating fierce penalties (like terms in state prison) to both the company and its individual officers for non-compliance?

States have cops, you know? In fact the vast majority of police forces in the country are established at state level or lower. They could absolutely order them to arrest anyone that doesn't comply with their view of how companies in the state should operate. (And for companies where no senior employee lives in the state, they could at least prevent them from doing business there.)

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u/GrunchJingo 1d ago

You can adjust your withholding, but this comes with the problem of "falsifying your W-4" and potentially getting an audit down the line.

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u/darkslide3000 1d ago

The Union collapses, Insurrection Act, civil war. Which is maybe the only way this can go now, and there's no point trying to shy away from that reality when it happens, but it really won't be pretty.

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u/m0nk_3y_gw 1d ago

They get sent to a prison in El Salvador for not paying Federal Taxes

oh wait, I shouldn't give them ideas