r/politics • u/harsh2k5 • 1d ago

Soft Paywall The Trump Administration Just Violated Another Court Order | It gets worse: The order found that the administration was covertly withholding millions in FEMA funds from blue states.

https://newrepublic.com/post/193650/trump-administration-just-violated-another-court-order
35.8k Upvotes

96% Upvoted

1.1k comments sorted by

View all comments

1.7k

u/2_Spicy_2_Impeach Michigan 1d ago

On Friday, McConnell found that the Trump administration disregarded the court order, with at least 19 states, all of whom with Democratic attorneys general, presenting “undisputed evidence” that they were not receiving FEMA funds already appropriated by Congress.

Completely shocking.

355

u/trampolinebears 1d ago

If the administration withholds funds they're required to distribute to the states, the states are justified in withholding funds they're required to send to the administration.

If the courts don't rein in the administration, we're going to see states intervening in the collection of federal taxes so they can withhold them as compensation.

86

u/ScottRiqui 1d ago

the states are justified in withholding funds they're required to send to the administration

What funds do the states send to the federal government, exactly?

A state's residents pay their income taxes directly to the federal government; the state can't "withhold" anything, because it never passes through the state's hands.

68

u/counterweight7 New Jersey 1d ago

I think they mean, they should tell their residents to withhold their taxes from the feds.

34

u/ScottRiqui 1d ago

And how's that going to work out, considering that the state can't protect its residents from the consequences of not filing/paying federal taxes?

72

u/counterweight7 New Jersey 1d ago

They going to arrest 80 million people? California NJ and NY is like 80 million people, a quarter of the US population and before I hear any jokes about El Salvador, they can take something like 1800 inmates.

1 person can’t start a revolution.

But a quarter of the country sure as fuck can, If only we can get coordinated.

43

u/Randomwhitelady2 1d ago

They won’t arrest us, they will take our property, put liens on our houses , garnish our wages, etc

7

u/Deadliftdummy 1d ago

But again, they'd have to do that to 80+ million ppl. They gon a put 5 guards outside everyone's house?

2

u/not_so_subtle_now 1d ago

They know the vast majority of people have families and would never risk harm to them. They play us in every way they can.

7

u/DrakonILD 1d ago

But who's the "they"? If California says "Our police will not comply with federal orders to arrest nonpayers" how are the feds going to get the manpower to do it?

11

u/ShamrockAPD 1d ago

And when they do that to dozens of millions- what do you think happens?

2

u/Bobcat-2 1d ago

Bomb you, looking at how this government operates

4

u/StinkyPeenky 1d ago

Well. It's not like the future is all that bright anyways.

1

u/Maumee-Issues 1d ago

State courts and police are the ones that actually enforce it though. Judges orders only go so far if the state government says to ignore them. Local and state police are a lot closer than the feds

3

u/civildisobedient 1d ago

It'll certainly be a challenge, what with all the Federal employees that they laid off.

Maybe their AI can do it.

2

u/TuxPaper 1d ago

They don't need to arrest 80 million people. They just need to arrest the loud ones, or the black ones, or the tattooed ones, or the bleeding heart hippy ones. Arresting the ones that protest will cause a chilling effect. It might cause some new people to go out in protest, but it won't cause 80 million of them. It'll be just enough new people that they can also arrest them, and vilify them throughout all the media their billionaires own. The vast majority of the 80 million would rather keep their heads down and not get into trouble. They are already struggling and overwhelmed with day to day life.

6

u/trampolinebears 1d ago

Logistically, you do it through payroll companies.

Make it state law that payroll companies have to send any tax withholding to the state government, who will then send it to the IRS. Failure to comply means the payroll company loses their license to do business in the state.

2

u/4totheFlush 1d ago

Do you mean protect in the legal sense? Because if we get to the point where a state's official policy is "stop paying the federal government taxes" then we will have passed into military intervention territory, not into simple legal repercussion territory.

1

u/civildisobedient 1d ago

Wouldn't take the military. Just send a couple of FBI folks from the local office.

1

u/4totheFlush 1d ago

To who? The politicians? You think governors wouldn't activate their own police forces and national guards to protect themselves?

2

u/civildisobedient 1d ago

You're talking about politicians? Governors? The subject is residents. "Regular" folk do not have their own police forces to protect themselves. Well... maybe some of the crazier gun-owners might have enough of an arsenal but they're not regular folk.

0

u/4totheFlush 1d ago

No, the subject is not about residents. Pay attention. We are talking about states instructing their citizens to stop paying the government. That is in effect a declaration of secession, and the federal response to that would not be to send some FBI agents to audit people. It would be to send the military to the state capital.

1

u/civildisobedient 1d ago

Great, the military goes to the state capital.

"Stop saying that."

"No."

Sure showed them. Or were you expecting manacles or perhaps just straight to the nuke-from-orbit, only way to be sure?

→ More replies (0)

2

u/M_R_Big 1d ago

You’re not wrong but isn’t this administration already trying to gut the IRS?

1

u/MaddyKet 1d ago

Idk ask New York because they are literally trying to pass a bill on this right now.

2

u/RevolutionaryHead7 1d ago

I think it's more likely they don't know what they're talking about. The IRS won't give a fuck what the state tells their residents 

7

u/counterweight7 New Jersey 1d ago

What IRS? The federal government was just gutted. I paid over 100k combined in federal and state taxes last year. And now they fired all the people who will come after that money. Which was their goal of course - to cut off audits of their rich buddies. We can use this against them.

1

u/RevolutionaryHead7 16h ago

Remember when Biden tried to add more IRS agents to go after the rich? Believe me, they'll always have enough agents to go after everyone else.

9

u/The_Navy_Sox 1d ago

That's why they said you will see states intervene?

2

u/ScottRiqui 1d ago

Thanks - I somehow missed the second paragraph when I responded.

6

u/projekt33 1d ago

How will they intervene?

I’m just unclear on what the mechanics of states intervening look like.

6

u/AugustPhoto29 1d ago

They could direct payroll companies to transfer the funds the would normally be withheld for federal taxes to a state escrow account.

3

u/projekt33 1d ago

And why would those payroll companies comply? How would the state protect them against the fed?

12

u/trampolinebears 1d ago
  • Pass a state law mandating compliance, with criminal penalties for failing to comply, including revoking their ability to engage in business in the state.
  • Offer state-backed services for banks comparable to what the FDIC offers today.
  • The state supreme court explains that they understand this to be a proper remedy to the current constitutional issues between the state and the federal government.

Imagine if California, New York, and Illinois did something like that together. Every payroll services company would have to decide whether they want to be federally legal (but excluded from those major markets) or federally illegal (but allowed to operate in those markets).

1

u/CircumventingTheBan_ 22h ago

Or they just spin off a subsidiary for each state and move on.

1

u/Randomwhitelady2 1d ago

Small business owners pay taxes directly to the feds. I know it’s not most people, but there are a lot.

2

u/MAYthe4thbewithHEW 1d ago

we're going to see states intervening in the collection of federal taxes so they can withhold them as compensation.

What that means is the States can direct employers to redirect Federal taxes withheld to the states until further notice, under threat of fines or revocation of business licenses.

I'd love to see that fight play out.

2

u/foobarbizbaz Illinois 1d ago

People generally have no idea how government gets funded, at least beyond the concept of paying taxes. I’m beginning to think Americans’ ignorance of basic civics is part of our problem.

1

u/hobard 1d ago

Most people have their income taxes withheld by their employer, who then send the money to the federal government. States employ a lot of people who they withhold federal taxes for. There’s certainly more than enough money there to offset FEMA money.