r/science • u/eastbayted • 2d ago

Health Sick food service workers remain top driver of viral foodborne outbreaks in US

https://www.healio.com/news/gastroenterology/20250331/sick-food-service-workers-remain-top-driver-of-viral-foodborne-outbreaks-in-us
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u/Malfunkdung 2d ago

I’ve bartended in restaurants for years. I’ve seen lots of my co-workers come into work sick. The current place I work at actually requires you to go to the doctor if you call out for two day or more in a row. You only get health insurance benefits after one year of working there.

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u/DerpyDaDulfin 2d ago

The restaurant I work at has a points system if you are tardy / miss days. You get points on your record even if you miss days with a doctors note.

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u/theonetheonlytc 1d ago

Sounds about right. 13 years service industry myself. Got out due to the toxic environment that is restaurant work. That entire industry needs an overhaul.

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u/the_most_playerest 1d ago

That entire industry needs an overhaul.

So many of them do!!

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u/vinyl8e8op 1d ago

I left food service and worked IT for a few years. It’s just as bad, worse now, and less pay for what I was doing

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u/noahjsc 1d ago

I'm not American so your laws may be different bit I believe they're similar. Thats a potential lawsuit waiting to happen. Could be worth talking to lawyer. I've heard you can get $$$ from that kinda stuff.

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u/barontaint 1d ago

In America almost all jobs like that are what's called "at-will" employment. You can get fired for any reason as long as it's not because you're a member of a protected class(disabled, race, religion) is the cause for firing, even it is they usually just make something up. It's hard enough to get unemployment after you're fired much less be able to successfully sue for wrongful termination or anything like that.

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u/noahjsc 1d ago

Damn thats fucked up.

If my hours are cut for being sick I have a wrongful dismissal case up north here. Didn't realize your labor laws really had so little protection. But some states do have extra laws from a cursory search.

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u/KallistiEngel 1d ago

Yes, correct. At-will is not carte blanche for the employer. They still have to follow state and federal laws. But many workers don't know their rights and/or have a defeatist attitude about them.

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u/Shootemout 1d ago

for good reason, if you try to take them to court if the business is smart they will delay and contest everything meanwhile you have bills to pay. you will have to get another job and then you have to hope that if you gotta make an appearance that it wont interfere with the new work hours.

gave up on a case against taco bell because of the above reason, just took it on the chin since the new job i got was significantly better and an actual desk position. rgm sent me to work at her husband's store- that i never worked at before, shift was already short staffed, busiest store in the area, the drive through times were awful as a result. She fired me and I was going through the process of unemployment and whatnot.

I have a lot of labor grievances with Tacala- the folks who own taco bell, as they promote a myriad of straight illegal things to do like (not officially obv) time/wage theft from employees to save stores on labor. When I got a new job working for a temp agency that later converted me but while I was at the temp agency I got a notice that a hearing was scheduled- during my work hours. Couldn't go and everything was dropped as a result. Got the new job before unemployment kicked in so I couldn't even schmooze off of that either

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u/KallistiEngel 1d ago

I obviously can't comment on your personal situation, but the state department of labor often handles claims of labor law violations. It is not entirely or even mostly on the employee. You bring your claim to the labor board.

This is the kind of thing I mean when I talk about not knowing your rights. You only have to hire a lawyer if your wrongful termination was due to a reason other than state or federal law (e.g. violating a clause in your contract). If your termination violated federal or state law, either the DOL or your state labor department investigate it: https://www.usa.gov/wrongful-termination

Taco Bell is owned by Yum! Brands (I also used to work for them). Is Tacala maybe a large franchisee? A quick search says Tacala has 300 Taco Bell locations in the south, but that's all the info I've got on them.

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u/CustomerSuportPlease 1d ago

Or they just can't afford to hire a lawyer to actually pursue their claim.

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u/KallistiEngel 1d ago

The state department of labor often handles claims of labor law violations. It is not entirely or even mostly on the employee. You bring your claim to the labor board.

This is the kind of thing I mean when I talk about not knowing your rights. You only have to hire a lawyer if your wrongful termination was due to a reason other than state or federal law (e.g. violating a clause in your contract). If your termination violated federal or state law, either the DOL or your state labor department investigate it: https://www.usa.gov/wrongful-termination

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u/KallistiEngel 1d ago

Every state has at-will employment. That's the default model in the US (except in Montana and maybe 1 other state iirc). You do still have legal rights under at-will, it doesn't give employers carte blanche. The idea that it does only benefits employers. There are federal and state labor laws they need to follow, and consequences for not doing so.

You're right that it can be hard to enforce your rights, but the more workers that stand up for themselves the harder it is for employers to get away with violating them.

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u/Goosetiers 1d ago edited 1d ago

It's so discouraging, with how much the average worker is struggling even full-time to meet basic standards. The time and cost for an employee to litigate any of that, vs just dealing with it and finding other employment is often the difference between eating/losing your place to live.

You're aware of all this I'm sure, but the average working American living paycheck to paycheck has time for one thing, working. Another bonus for all the companies making sure we get paid as little as possible I guess.

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u/KallistiEngel 1d ago

I am well aware of it, I used to be in the food industry myself and it's what ignited my fire for worker's rights.

Yes, employees working full time and struggling to make ends meet are not going to have much energy for litigation. This is why labor departments exist though, and if you're lucky your area will have a worker's center that can also help. I've personally received payouts for labor violations I wasn't aware of due to the state labor department without having to lift a finger (they conducted a time-clock audit of a large former employer, and there were rounding errors with the time clocks resulting in underpayment).

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u/barontaint 1d ago

I spent 20yrs in the restaurant industry. I'm glad you had those outlets to complain to and get results, but unless I lived in crappy states and worked for awful places that is not my or many of fellows in the industry have experienced. Don't get me started on how many places that got PPP loans while not helping staff during covid but got a new summer home or cars instead

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u/Disorderjunkie 1d ago

This is a common misconception about at-will employment. They cannot fire you for ANY reason, actually there is much more they cannot fire you for in every at will state than just protected classes.

For example, you can absolutely sue your employer in an at will state if they fire you BECAUSE you were sick for a week with covid, and it’s proven they didn’t take steps to make reasonable accommodation. They can fire you without telling you why whenever they want, but if they actually give you a REASON, i’d go talk to an employment lawyer.

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u/Immersi0nn 1d ago

So basically, they can't fire you for just any reason, but they can fire you for no reason.

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u/FesteringNeonDistrac 1d ago

Yeah you basically have to get them on tape saying "I'm firing you because you're black." Otherwise the tiniest shred of cause is enough.

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u/fuzzum111 1d ago

Yeah, American working protections are often almost a joke.

Collecting unemployment, may require fighting just to get it, and if you do it'll be a fraction of your income, and hard-capped after a certain point.

Even if you were wrongfully terminated, unless you've got proof and or a rock-solid case, finding an attorney that will take the case "for free"(meaning a % of the settlement at the end instead of $ up front), it could be YEARS before the case is settled.

Sure, you got your 100k payout from your employer, (more like 50k or less after legal, and fees) but it's been 2 years, you're homeless, and still unable to find a new job.

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u/kkirstenc 1d ago

I’m a nurse (you know, someone who is ostensibly meant to take care of sick people), and this is absolutely the policy almost everywhere I have ever worked. It is madness.

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u/virtual-hermit- 1d ago

Every job with a points system (like mine) can get fucked. Such a juvenile way to punish people.

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u/Vanquish_Dark 1d ago

My work gives discretion to accept doctors notes.... To the supervisor. So he can just write you up even with a valid medical reason.

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u/ZanyDragons 12h ago

The hospital I work at has a point system just like this. The hospital, kind of a place you’d hope not fire you for getting a cold or a genuine illness when you’re elbow deep in someone’s blood or vomit plenty of days. But you’d be wrong. They had to make a special rule just for diagnosed Covid cases so workers could comply with infection precautions without every single person being fired.

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u/mud074 2d ago edited 1d ago

The only time I have seen coworkers call in at restaurants for being sick is when they are debilitatingly sick to the point that they cannot work. Otherwise, gotta make rent. Missing a shift feels about the same as a $160 fine. The cultural norm in the industry is to give 0 fucks about making customers sick, so long as it's not an acute food poisoning that will be traced back to the restaurant.

And as for that, the amount of people I have worked with that are particularly careful with food safety standards even outside of worker illness is a lot lower than it should be

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u/volkmardeadguy 1d ago

once you add in the fact that everyone runs a skeleton crew, one call out exponentially increases everyone elses workload so you have that on your decision to be out sick as well

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u/ZenAdm1n 1d ago

I worked at a restaurant that overcame that by having 2 or 3 unpaid on-call workers per shift. This means scheduling around a shift you won't get called in for because even if someone calls in, they don't necessarily call in the on-call workers. I'd be scheduled 4 or 5 days plus an on-call or 2, meaning I only had one day a week I could count on to be off work and one day a week I couldn't count on being paid.

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u/foxdye22 1d ago

By the way, unpaid on call is illegal. If your time is occupied and you’re not free to go to another job or do whatever you want, you’re supposed to be compensated for that.

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u/evie_quoi 1d ago

Here’s a fun fact: a lot of my coworkers are here illegally. It’s very easy to manipulate people who are vulnerable. All of them allow - with a smile on their face - their breaks to be pushed or not offered at all. Management loves these people

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u/ZenAdm1n 1d ago

It may be illegal now, but things have changed since the 90s. (Except the minimum wage for tipped employees, of course)

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u/foxdye22 1d ago

It was probably illegal then, too, but they were taking advantage of workers who wouldn’t stand up for themselves. I’m not faulting you, I’m just saying it so that other people know their rights and don’t take on call work as a normal thing.

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u/soaring_potato 1d ago

I mean and knew their rights.

So many don't today. Let alone before you could find it online like super easily.

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u/ObligationSlight8771 1d ago

He probably meant the word per diem. We do the same at work. They aren’t in call per se, but are usually available for shifts like this.

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u/travinsky 1d ago

Unpaid on call is not illegal unless you are required to be on premise

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u/TheresWald0 1d ago

Jurisdiction based. It's illegal where I am.

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u/FriendlyDespot 1d ago edited 1d ago

The FLSA standard isn't limited to whether or not you're on work premises, it has to do with how free you are to use your time. The differentiation is whether you're waiting to be engaged, or engaged to wait.

If you're free to do regular everyday activities then you're waiting to be engaged. The classic example is going to watch a movie, and a reasonable period of time before reporting for work sits at around 3-4 hours from the time you're called. If you're not free to do regular everyday activities and are expected to report for work in less than 3-4 hours then you're engaged to wait.

If you're engaged to wait as an FLSA-covered employee then that time is legally considered time worked and should be compensated as such.

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u/travinsky 1d ago

It may not be common in the food service industry but I work in the elevator industry and all service techs are on an on call schedule worked out in advance. And they aren’t allowed 3-4 hours to leave their house. They also have company trucks and get paid the minute they leave their house so it’s not exactly the same.

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u/PrototypeChicken 18h ago

The company I worked for got around this by illegally making us contract workers...

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u/doublebubbler2120 1d ago

They did that at Trudy's in Austin, Texas. Coincidentally, one of their locations burned down. Burn, baby, burn! The owner, Gary, is an absolute dickhead.

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u/Mental_Tea_4084 1d ago

That sounds illegal

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u/KallistiEngel 1d ago

This should not be on the employees as it's a problem caused by management. Management needs to step in and get into the thick of it if one callout will severely impact service. Good managers do, I've seen it at some places I worked. Bad managers will do anything to avoid having to fill in on the line.

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u/volkmardeadguy 1d ago

cool but "this should be..." and "they could haves..." wont change the scenario facing many people daily

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u/KeyCold7216 1d ago

Back when I worked in fast food, our shift manager was literally sitting in a chair by the dish tank doing dishes and puking in a trash can for 8 hours because we didn't have any other managers to cover and our GM made them come in.

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u/DoctorRoxxo 1d ago

That’s when you call the health department on your way to work and say hey I’m currently throwing up and I’m on my way to this restaurant to work a full shift come visit me and say hi

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u/drewjsph02 1d ago

I worked in restaurants for 20 years and it sucked so bad when it was cold and flu season.

A sick customer or coworker comes in, passes it to someone else, and on and on until it’s been two months of sickness.

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u/Immersi0nn 1d ago

Mind you, that $160 "fine" should be the only negative you have for calling out sick. Sadly this is commonly not the case.

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u/MysticalMummy 1d ago

Same at whole foods. You only get insurance after a certain period, you are required to bring a doctors note if you miss more than 2 days... but that doctors note does not excuse your absence, it only allows you to return.

It says you have to call in sick by law if you have certain symptoms, but then they still punish you when you call in sick.

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u/Znuffie 1d ago

You only get health insurance benefits after one year of working there.

Wild. So you need to not get sick the first year? Damn, who knew it was that easy.

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u/spiritofniter 1d ago

We should decouple insurance and work.

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u/SandyTaintSweat 1d ago

And I'm sure doctors just love it when people come in with contagious colds so they can sign their "stay home" permission slip.

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u/ZanyDragons 12h ago

My doctor is super sane about this and allows a few freebie sick notes to just be emailed from the patient portal so I don’t have to come in. If I need a note longer than a day they want to examine me, of course.

I think it’s super reasonable and helpful if I’m sick to my stomach and don’t want to leave the bathroom to just get a signed note blipped to my phone I can send to my boss. I only need it once a year at best but I’m always soo happy I don’t have to go all the way in for everything.

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u/crazycatlady331 7h ago

The very employers who require a doctor's note for absences are the ones that don't provide health insurance.

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u/doublebubbler2120 1d ago

Why not? Easy money

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u/Nedgeh 1d ago edited 1d ago

I lost my job at Ashley Furniture because I called in sick for 2 days in a row. When I returned to work (still sick but I need money to pay for rent and food) I was told I needed a doctor's note or else I can't return to work. Despite having insurance through my employer, all "regular" doctors were weeks away appointments and the only people who would see me were holistic doctors like acupressure clinics and whatnot. So I lost my job because I didn't have enough money to see an out of network doctor.

The system doesn't work.

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u/anspee 1d ago

This kind of policy needs to be made illegal

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u/alexandra87239 1d ago

Years ago I worked at a restaurant that served breakfast. I was so sick I was coughing and had lost my voice, but came in as I was scheduled to open and didn't want to leave the 1 other person hanging. Once everything was set up I was hoping to leave because of the violent coughing fits and how do you work as a server when you have no voice. We also had a lot of elderly patrons.

The owner asked me if I was sure I couldn't stay!

Im not sure about other people but I would not feel comfortable dining at a restaurant where the waitress is clearly sick and contagious.

Not to mention, I probably would get other employees sick too.

This was about a decade ago and before COVID, but I'm still annoyed by how they treated sick employees.

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u/nicannkay 1d ago

Yup! And if someone hasn’t been working around the public they will catch all the illnesses the first year. Just like with kids going to school. They know this, it isn’t an oversight.