r/science • u/eastbayted • 2d ago

Health Sick food service workers remain top driver of viral foodborne outbreaks in US

https://www.healio.com/news/gastroenterology/20250331/sick-food-service-workers-remain-top-driver-of-viral-foodborne-outbreaks-in-us
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u/HelenEk7 2d ago

And part of your salary comes from tipping.. Its almost a miracle that they get people to work in restaurants..

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u/EredarLordJaraxxus 1d ago

Oh and top that off with a customer base that treats service workers like they are second class citizens

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u/rileyoneill 2d ago

End tipping and people would not want to be servers. Servers at busy restaurants can make really good money. Pay them a flat wage and they would not show up, and they would not volunteer for the busiest hours.

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u/jurgy94 2d ago

This isn't a problem in the rest of the world where servers make much less (or none at all) from tips but are paid a decent wage hourly. Why would it be the case in the US?

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u/daschande 2d ago

I had one server quit once, screaming and swearing at the manager on her way out, because she ONLY made $50 per hour in tips. On an average Tuesday in a blue collar corporate chain.

When the other servers heard the story, they all surrounded the 15 year old hostess and threatened to drag her out back and beat her ass senseless if anyone EVER made $50 per hour again; because the ONLY way a server gets paid that pathetically low is if the hostess intentionally screws them on seating.

Meanwhile, the cooks were making $8 per hour.

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u/rileyoneill 2d ago

How much is this decent wage in actual dollars/euros? Servers in California make our minimum wage which is like $16 per hour plus tips. I knew people making $80,000 per year working as a server and this was 15 years ago. Do servers in Europe make this sort of money?

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u/1_130426 2d ago

They do make a comparable amount when accounting for cost of living.

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u/1handedmaster 1d ago

Bingo

Also, what benefits do they get or is insurance out of pocket for them?

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u/JanetSnakehole610 1d ago edited 1d ago

Restaurants don’t want to pay the wages. Some states the hourly is like $5. If they upped it now the restaurant eats the cost and restaurants are already pretty risky as far as businesses go. Without tipping there’s less incentive to sell as well (why would I point out the more expensive wine, remind them of starters or desserts, upselling, etc.) so businesses are potentially losing out on sales on top of now paying servers.

And I’m sure service quality would go down. No rushing for refills, quickly bussing, offering recommendations, “customer is right” attitude, service with a smile, etc. In the US esp at some restaurants the servers are an integral part of guest experience. Like I work at a ski resort so on top of serving I’m giving advice on runs to take, weather updates, snow conditions, road conditions, hikes, history, explaining trail maps, etc. Many of the guests genuinely want to get to know me and my story. It takes up time and makes my job way harder trying to balance everything on top of ensuring they have a memorable genuine attentive experience.

And many restaurants do not offer health insurance, paid time off, sick leave, retirement plans, maternity/paternity leave, etc. So even if we’re making 50+ an hour it needs to be saved or invested since it’s not built into our wages in any capacity. If our hourly goes to like $25/hr it isn’t like getting a desk job where you’re at least reaping those benefits even if the pay is meh.

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u/Designer_B 1d ago

Because they make more money than the rest of the world.

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u/HelenEk7 2d ago

End tipping and people would not want to be servers.

There are around 1,500,000 restaurants and cafes in Europe. They are all able to get workers.

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u/rileyoneill 2d ago edited 2d ago

Various European countries also have very high youth unemployment rates and have a large amount of people who will take any kind of work. Cutting tipping in American restaurants would not make the servers better off.

We have fast food restaurants where people are paid minimum wage and people generally don’t want to work at these places.

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u/HelenEk7 2d ago

We have fast food restaurants where people are paid minimum wage and odious generally don’t want to work at these places.

Sounds like your minimum wage might be too low?

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u/rileyoneill 2d ago

What should the minimum wage be? Until people want to work at McDonalds?

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u/stalris 2d ago

You answered your own question

How much is this decent wage in actual dollars/euros? Servers in California make our minimum wage which is like $16 per hour plus tips. I knew people making $80,000 per year working as a server and this was 15 years ago. Do servers in Europe make this sort of money?

If waiters were making 80k a year in tips then that's what Mcdonald's workers should also be making, you'd have a line around the block to flip burgers at Mickey D's.

The point isn't that servers are overpaid, it's that everyone else is underpaid, and you're fine with that as long as it's not your favorite waiter getting stiffed. Don't act like tipping is some universal fix while ignoring that the rest of the working class gets scraps.

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u/rileyoneill 2d ago

Would you open a restaurant and pay everyone $80,000 per year?

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u/stalris 2d ago

So... you don't want to pay waiters 80k a year?

Bro, don't act like you're advocating for the well-being of workers. You're not. You 're just acting out of selfish greed for your role while ignoring everyone else in the kitchen. You don't care about anyone else in the Industry.

The point the poster above you was trying to make is pay everyone equally. If cooks, dishwashers, bussers, etc are making minimum wage then waiters should too. If you think minimum wage is too low for waiters and also believe cooks, etc should still be paid minimum wage then obviously you're not advocating for justice, you just have selective empathy.

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u/HelenEk7 2d ago

Where I live you start at 19 USD per hour at Mac Donalds.

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u/rileyoneill 2d ago

I am in California, it’s $20 per hour here and people still don’t want do it. Tipped servers make far more than that.

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u/Any_Anybody_5055 2d ago

Making $20/hr in California is probably like making $3/hr in Wyoming

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u/rileyoneill 2d ago

No it isn't. Our cost of living is higher but its not that much of a difference.

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u/HelenEk7 2d ago

in California, it’s $20

I see that happened quite recently, and it seems to be working well?

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u/rileyoneill 2d ago

It’s still a step downwards for someone who was making tips at a restaurant as a server.

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u/1handedmaster 1d ago

If minimum wage in an area can't support one person living in an area, it's too low.

That simple. To quote a famous comedian "if your boss is paying you minimum wage, it means he would pay you less if he could."

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u/rileyoneill 1d ago

The cost of living can be to local rents. If you take the median price of a one bedroom apartment that is available for rent and triple it and call that a month’s minimum wage you can get a decent figure. However… local zoning boards and regulatory boards have greatly restricted the amount of housing that can come online which drives the price up drastically.

Likewise, landlords would charge the absolute maximum possible. If they could find someone to pay $10,000 rent they would take it. If you get a big raise at work, they can raise the rents. You can fix the rent prices which would work for existing tenants but not create more housing for future tenants. My area has seen minimum wages rise drastically and housing prices went up a faster rate. A $1000 per month apartment a dozen years ago can easily be a $2500 place today.

If a one bedroom apartment is $700 per month. Then minimum wage would be $2100 per month. One bedroom apartments are $2000 per month and minimum wage needs to be $6000 per month. You get this feedback loop where costs across the board keep rising and rising and yet more value is not being created.

My point earlier is that the biggest beneficiaries of the tipping system are the servers. They make way more than they would under a flat hourly system and are the people who will our up the fight the most.

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u/Sgt-Spliff- 1d ago

People already work at McDonald's

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u/Thelmara 1d ago

End tipping and people would not want to be servers.

End tipping and people would not want to be servers at the current wage. Yes, employers would have to pay their servers more than they currently do. No, that's not a problem - that just means incorporating the costs that are currently covered by tips into the actual price of the food.

Imagine that, being able to know how much your food was going to cost and the servers knowing how much they were going to be paid without worrying they're going to be stiffed by the tip.

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u/rileyoneill 1d ago

The servers would rather keep the status quo. The people who are currently doing the job would see it as lowering their income. The public would like it but the people currently doing the job would not.

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u/Thelmara 1d ago

The servers would rather keep the status quo.

Not really relevant. I didn't say they'd like it, I said there's a price point where they'd do it.

The people who are currently doing the job would see it as lowering their income.

Yes, if you just cut the tips, it would be. And they would probably refuse to work at that wage, Which is why wages would have to go up.

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u/rileyoneill 1d ago

The wages would go up or the quality would go down as there is little motivation. Its like when retail went from having salespeople who were paid a commission and thus realized they make more money when they sell more stuff, they work more effectively at selling more stuff to flat wages. Turns out, people working for flat wages don't really care about meeting any sort of quota or being an effective salesperson.

People will show up for flat pay. They just won't be very motivated. Extra effort doesn't result in extra money. Servers are sales people who have a tipping system over a commission system. Their motivation is to get customers spending more money because they see a chunk of it.

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u/Thelmara 1d ago

And yet somehow restaurants with servers still exist all across the world, in places where tipping doesn't happen.

The wages and motivation will settle into an equilibrium eventually. That's how it always works.