Sense restraint in relation to (tasty) food

[u/AccomplishedLie7493]

I am practicing sense restraint. I am successfully able to not delight in simple things like music and other cravings. And quite successful in food too.
But i live on campus dormitory and go to the cafeteria. 2/3 meals i am able to lean towards a simple diet that just fulfills my hunger but i am not able to fully restraint myself. That one slip , that one delight looking at fries or pasta i can't resist.
How do i see the drawbacks in this sensuality more clearly?
What techniques have you applied for your sense restraint

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[u/AlexCoventry]

Are you eating a sufficient amount to stay healthy?

[u/jameslanna]

There is a valuable opportunity to learn from indulging in food. As you already understand, the practice is not just about restraint but also about developing wisdom regarding craving. When craving arises, there is push and pull—tension.

First we should become clearly aware of this tension, to recognize where it comes from, and to observe it clearly, but don't stare at it.

Desire creates stress at different stages:

Before eating, as we anticipate sensual pleasure.

While eating, as we hope to prolong the good feeling.

After eating, either with a feeling of disgust if we’ve had too much or a desire for more if we haven’t had enough.

Often, simply seeing this tension clearly and tracing it back to its source is enough to lessen its grip. However, deeply ingrained habits take time to change, so don’t expect to stop indulging right away. You can gradually weaken these habits by reflecting on the drawbacks of whatever you are about to eat.

Second, it's important to understand how feelings and perceptions are constructed by the mind. We need to separate the physical act of eating from the mental interpretations. The taste buds only detect five basic sensations: sweet, sour, salty, bitter, and savory. The mind then builds flavors from these raw sensory inputs. If you carefully observe your taste buds while eating, you will see that flavors do not exist within them—they are mental fabrications created from feelings and perceptions. Because we cling to these perceptions, flavors seem substantial and lasting. However, if we shift our focus back to the taste buds themselves, we find only a continuous stream of raw sensations, not actual flavors.

So, another way to reduce craving for food is to focus on the physical sensations at the taste buds rather than on mental perceptions. Mastering this skill can be applied to other forms of craving as well.

The goal of this practice is to see through illusions—the things we assume to be "me," "myself," or "mine"—and to recognize that they are neither lasting nor truly satisfying.

It’s not the food that is the problem, but the craving—the mind’s attempt to escape stress. What exactly is it trying to escape?

Since many of us experience high levels of stress, we may need to address other areas of our practice so that we don’t rely on food as a coping mechanism. The Buddha recommends calming both bodily and mental fabrications. In other words, you can relax the sense of self—the body that craves satisfaction—and soften the feelings and perceptions that fuel food cravings.

Finally, at a much more advanced level, we can detach ourselves from the entire experience or simply from tongue consciousness.

In tasting, there is only taste. There is no "you" in that.

There is a legend from a long time ago that in a certain monastery all the monks there became arahants from simply practicing mindfulness of eating.

The perception of repulsiveness in food, when developed and frequently practiced, leads to the deathless AN 7.49

[u/rollerblade7 → u/jameslanna]

Thanks, that was really interesting

[u/None2357]

Sense restraint is the technique; you're already seeing the danger, you can't resist it, you''re not free, not the owner of your mind, but their slave

Craving surges due to habit/conditioning; an undeveloped mind carries great addiction to sensuality and intense craving. At the very moment there is craving, there is suffering. The moment you start desiring French fries, you're experiencing internal pressure, impatience, and emptiness you want to fill with those fries. The pleasure they offer is liberation from the suffering craving causes. Similarly, the pleasure a cigarette offers a smoker is relief from nicotine withdrawal, the pleasure of a cigarette is to make you free of the pain tobacco causes. One who has never smoked doesn't miss cigarettes, nor do they crave smoking, nor would they smoke even if offered, tabaco causes zero suffering to him. The smoker, by giving in to the pressure to smoke, perpetuates tobacco addiction and the suffering that comes with it. Sensuality is the same, the "real pleasure" of selfindulging if food is to get rid of the dukkha of the craving for that food, by doing so you perpetuate the cycle of dukkha forever.

There's a Christian phrase, 'Sins seem like freedom until one tries not to commit them.' That's exactly what happens with uncontrolled craving; with sense restraint it becomes increasingly obvious how craving pressures, agitates, and enslaves you, potentially leading to dark extremes. There's a sutta where Buddha says desire is what leads children to kill parents, parents to kill children, brothers to kill brothers ...

Summary sense restraint is the technique, you don't see your dog is wild if anytime he starts to run after a car you run with it and say yourself I'm running because I want, I'm enjoying the run. You start to see the drawbacks of having an untamed dog when the dog wants to run, you stay still and it pulls your hand as crazy, barks, bites you ...

[u/KagakuNinja]

I don't know the context of what you are trying to do. It sounds like some kind of austere interpretation of early Buddhism.

You are not a monk, why not delight in music or tasty food? Eat healthy food, but not too much. Be mindful of every bite and enjoy it fully. Same with music, and everything else you do in life.

[u/intellectual_punk → u/KagakuNinja]

I really like the way the Hare Krishnas are doing it... definitely strong focus on delicious food (and joy in general)... however, they enjoy it not for themselves but for Krishna. Everything (the best!) for Krishna. That takes the self out of it while still making sure this body is getting what it needs (including pleasure). At the same time, there is no overeating or e.g. alcohol. You wouldn't want to harm your god, right?

Disclaimer: I'm not a Hare Krishna, or religious in any way, but I like hanging out with them.

Also note that in Hinduism joy is part of the meaning of life. Just gotta make sure it doesn't become an addiction and overrides the other meanings. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puru%E1%B9%A3%C4%81rtha

[u/Solip123 → u/KagakuNinja]

It sounds like some kind of austere interpretation of early Buddhism.

Sense-restraint is the second step in gradual training according to the suttas.

Practices of early Buddhism were austere as a result of the renunciative culture of the time period. The Buddha taught renunciation first and foremost.

[u/adivader → u/KagakuNinja]

+1

[u/duffstoic]

I gotta ask: why are you taking an ascetic path while being a lay practitioner? The ascetic path of “sense restraint” is for full-time yogis and monks, who have the benefit of an environment with zero temptations and stressors, away from work, school, sexy people, delicious food, alcohol, and the internet.

In my opinion and observation, trying to achieve a full-blown ascetic path in the midst of the world is a recipe for needless suffering. I’ve seen it again and again. It just makes people miserable and averse to the conditions of their actual lives.

I suggest abandoning the ascetic path if you are not going to be a full-time yogi or monk living away from normal society, which means embrace sensuality in moderation and with an attitude of transformation instead of absolute abstention. This path also works great.

See also: https://www.reddit.com/r/streamentry/comments/1d86v85/how_to_awaken_in_daily_life_a_short_guide_for/

[u/Skylark7]

Tasty food comes, tasty food goes. Best enjoy it while you can! The key is to appreciate it's impermanence. Eating, enjoying, gone. Wash your bowl and give it no more thought.

[u/Ordinary-Lobster-710]

I don't know if this is the path to liberation. This is something else.

[u/Vivid_Assistance_196]

Sense restraint in the sutta is a bad translation. It really is just talking about being mindful of experience and engage things with wisdom. So it is not beneficial to view it as "successfully" not delighting in things since there might be an element of aversion in that. Not overeating when there is a whole pizza in front of you is hard too.

Just eat those fries haha and listen to music, you will drop bad habits naturally overtime if they aren't aligned with your insights

[u/Solip123 → u/Vivid_Assistance_196]

Why do you think it is a bad translation? What else could "guarding the sense doors" mean?