r/technology • u/ourlifeintoronto • Sep 10 '23

Transportation Lithium discovery in US volcano could be biggest deposit ever found

https://www.chemistryworld.com/news/lithium-discovery-in-us-volcano-could-be-biggest-deposit-ever-found/4018032.article
13.9k Upvotes

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2.5k

u/MovingInStereoscope Sep 10 '23

If this can actually be utilized, this is a groundbreaking find because lithium sources has been a big fear for the US.

428

u/WormLivesMatter Sep 11 '23

This deposit, thacker pass, has been known about for decades. It’s the market allowing it to move towards a mine. And some technology advancements since it’s clay hosted. Most Li is brine (think thick salt water) or pegmatite (think massive Li minerals you can see and are as big as your head) hosted. Sed/vol hosted Li needed a new processing line. I guess it’s ready if this is in the news.

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u/AlphaLemming Sep 11 '23

Eh I don't think it's guaranteed ready. The article talks about them potentially making the find significant IF they can extract the Li without too much energy/acid. I imagine that process is experimental at likely a trade secret. Sounds like a company is finally making the bet, but it's still a risk and not a done deal.

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u/WormLivesMatter Sep 11 '23

I work in the industry and as far as mine planning goes it’s very far along. Them it has the backing of the government which is a big help.

27

u/Sappledip Sep 11 '23

Do you know of any large publicly traded companies that are deeply involved in these prototype processes? Asking for no reason really…

15

u/FirstMiddleLass Sep 11 '23

IF they can extract the Li without too much energy/acid.

Hopefully they won't frack it up.

17

u/WormLivesMatter Sep 11 '23

That’s one idea. Silicon Valley tech bros started so many lithium extraction companies in the salton sea the past decade looking to exactly that. Bill gates company is the farthest along. It’s call ILE though not fracking. They made the name cooler.

2

u/brundlfly Sep 11 '23

With clay, I wonder if extraction is a water intensive process- we don't need more of those.

1

u/Ismhelpstheistgodown Sep 11 '23

Timing of the article suggests to me that they are angling for a few more deal sweetening EPA exemptions.

2

u/[deleted] Sep 11 '23

They aren’t mining there because we keep stopping them in the courts, it’s not new or good.

875

u/VikKarabin Sep 10 '23

Cheap lithium sources are a fear. It's not cheap to mine in US

642

u/Vulpix73 Sep 10 '23

I could see the US government forking out for domestic production of something as strategically important as lithium, even if not a huge amount.

538

u/tonycomputerguy Sep 11 '23

Big oil vs Big electric

One hundred lobbiests enter, two hundred leave!

191

u/stromm Sep 11 '23

Big oil companies own something like 96% of green energy including the resources.

145

u/rabidbot Sep 11 '23

Big oil will only resist green energy until they can replace or surpass profits of oil with it. The moment that equation works out for them it will become the most important thing in the history of mankind for us to immediately switch to green energy.

56

u/davetronred Sep 11 '23

Yep, a bunch of hardline climate denying companies will suddenly be all about reversing carbon emissions. You love to see it.

15

u/deathschemist Sep 11 '23

i don't care what the motive is, we need to move away from oil.

it's been high 20s celcius in fucking september in the UK, this is NOT normal!

7

u/uzlonewolf Sep 11 '23

Well, it is now.

2

u/roxzorfox Sep 11 '23

The sun is going through its final stages in its cycle and there are more solar flares...it kind of is normal, we will probably have a very cold winter as well because the warmer summer...think back to the beast from the east.

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u/[deleted] Sep 11 '23

At this point I'll take it.

14

u/Efficient_Jaguar699 Sep 11 '23

Really hope this equation tips a little faster so we can get this show on the road sooner. It needed to happen like twenty years ago.

12

u/broniesnstuff Sep 11 '23

The second a single cell on an Excel spreadsheet somewhere turns green, then the energy revolution will begin.

2

u/Langsamkoenig Sep 11 '23

Problem is that will likely never happen. Since renewables are functionally infinite and everywhere you can't control the market as effectively. Which is why while they are trying to diversify, they'll also try to keep us on oil for as long as possible.

2

u/jmlinden7 Sep 11 '23

Renewables require storage to be effective at a grid scale, and storage requires raw materials which are not infinite

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u/n4zza_ Sep 11 '23

What do you mean? If BP owns the sun im going to write an essay

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u/TheJDUBS2 Sep 11 '23

how does one harvest the sun? through solar panels. how are solar panels made, who makes them, and who gets the materials? Thats how

38

u/regoapps Sep 11 '23 edited Sep 11 '23

You can actually produce energy from solar using only mirrors, lenses and a steam generator. Just angle the mirrors and lenses to focus the sunlight onto a thermal receiver, similar to a boiler tube. The receiver absorbs and converts sunlight into heat. The heat is then transported to a steam generator or engine where it is converted into electricity.

44

u/ComputingWaffle Sep 11 '23

Way off topic but I did not expect to see the creator of the 5-0 police scanner app while scrolling through Reddit. I’ve had the app downloaded for years and I instantly recognized your profile picture. Anyways, I appreciate the work you put into creating it.

Have a good one!

31

u/regoapps Sep 11 '23

Aww, you’re too kind. Thanks for using my app! You have a good one as well.

5

u/katarjin Sep 11 '23

This right here is why despite all the issues social media has I still love it. (Never heard of that app, I'll have to check it out.)

15

u/thebornotaku Sep 11 '23

Like so: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivanpah_Solar_Power_Facility

Downside is sometimes the intense, focused sunlight cooks birds that fly through.

35

u/regoapps Sep 11 '23

Free electricity AND a free meal? Where do I sign up?

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u/Gavroche_Lives Sep 11 '23

Yup birds die sometimes. Next.

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u/kimbabs Sep 11 '23

Pretty insane how many birds that thing kills for not reaching its advertised capacity, even into 2020.

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u/brianwski Sep 11 '23

focused sunlight cooks birds that fly through

I heard that they invented home microwave ovens after they noticed birds that fly in front of military radar were cooked in flight.

Now in full disclosure, I heard this from a drunk stranger in a bar, so it deserves to be checked out for certain.

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u/TheJDUBS2 Sep 11 '23

yes and individuals and other companies could do that, fact of the matter is that the oil companies are actually the ones investing the most into green energy

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u/Consistent_Wave_2869 Sep 11 '23

They are likely investing in lobbying against it as well

1

u/InsufferableMollusk Sep 11 '23

Also, freshly baked birds on the ground below 🍗

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u/ProRustler Sep 11 '23

Hell yeah, let's really get this global warming started by making it day all the time!

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u/SirBMsALot Sep 11 '23

I mean didn’t other suns technically make the materials needed to make the panels?

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u/rigored Sep 11 '23

That is one of the constants we can be fairly confident about. All anyone truly cares about is the $$.

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u/Love_Lettuce_8380 Sep 11 '23

I'm fine with that it means we know how to best incentivize them into doing what we need them to do.

1

u/JinFuu Sep 11 '23

I'm fine with that if we can convince some people that long term, continuous/stable flow of money is better than trying to wringe out as much as you can in the current quarter/financial year. : V

0

u/Love_Lettuce_8380 Sep 11 '23

you said it way better than me I 100% agree

1

u/[deleted] Sep 11 '23

As soon as energy storage is a little cheaper wind and solar will rather easily beat anything but natural gas and then given a bit more time it will beat natural gas and that will be that.

EVs are even easier because that's like 100 times less moving parts to deal with so as the batteries keep improving at a pretty rapid rate the EVs blows past fossil fuel vehicles in affordability.

It's hard to say there really is any significant need to incentivize a transition when we don't quite have the energy storage to make it work. Because solar and wind is already cheaper than any fossil fuel power generation the energy storage hurdle finally being overcome will be like a flood gate of adoption being opened.

Any taxes on fossil fuels DIRECTLY makes the transition to green energy more expensive, incentive or not. Really they already have tons of incentives IF the damn energy storage was just a bit better.

It's like generally people always switch to electric when they can because electric is always more convenient if it can do the job, not unlike electric yard tools. Once you don't have to deal with gas and oil lawnmowers, that's it, you'll never go back. Most corporations feel the same way and don't care what the oil and gas companies think, they will move to electric because it save THEM money in operation cost and maintenance.

At some point solar is like your setting up a panel that can produce gasoline in your backyard and if such a thing existed there's nothing the oil and gas companies could really do to stop it and all the naysayers would shut their mouth and start getting "free gas from the sun".

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u/rigored Sep 11 '23

Buy electric everything. There’s the incentive

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u/Love_Lettuce_8380 Sep 11 '23

I want to saving up for my first EV here soon!

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u/TimX24968B Sep 11 '23

so theyre actually just "big energy"

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u/CantReadGood_ Sep 11 '23 edited Sep 11 '23

Do you have any sources for this? I'm skeptical af about this claim. We get sources pointing to big oil shirking on their green energy investments and promises every year. Something close to half of all green energy produced on the planet is being produced in China, and not by oil companies....

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u/[deleted] Sep 11 '23

Not true, but is that a bad thing ?

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u/rawbamatic Sep 11 '23

Big Oil does not own the sun, the wind, or the oceans. Anyone can join the fray, they just need money.

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u/MaizeWarrior Sep 11 '23

I'm skeptical of this, sounds too crazy, you got a source for that?

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u/spaceS4tan Sep 11 '23

I'm going to assume this is only if you call an energy company that owns a natural gas plant an oil company because otherwise lol, no.

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u/anormalgeek Sep 11 '23

They're hedging their bets as they know it's an inevitable move. But they're also going to drag out the fossil fuel as LONG as possible to maximize profit.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 11 '23

Evil never dies, my friend. It exits the stage only to reappear in the next act with a new mask.

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u/Disastrous-Bus-9834 Sep 11 '23

They're the same thing. Energy companies

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u/americanextreme Sep 11 '23

They are completely different entities of the same holding company with entirely different boards made up of the same people.

15

u/El_Chairman_Dennis Sep 11 '23

The main supplier of lithium for the US is China. The US military will figure out a way to mine this, even if it involves starting the mine on the opposite side of the globe and digging all the way through the earth

23

u/rshorning Sep 11 '23

There are plenty of other potential sources of Lithium for the USA. The only reason why China is a major supplier is simply because the People's Republic insists upon subsidizing their domestic mining operations and they sell the refined metals at prices and at sufficient quantities to undercut the prices from most other places.

As to if that makes sense in the long run to ordinary Chinese people who will need to deal with environmental damage to their country for decades and centuries to come including the toxic waste produced as a byproduct of the mining and refining processes is something to question, but hey...that isn't our problem right now and only future Chinese people will need to worry about that. And of course pollution from China doesn't leave its borders impacting anybody else in the world?

11

u/DoorHingesKill Sep 11 '23

Damn, I don't wanna know what Australia looks like considering they're producing three times as much as China.

From prison Island to toxic wasteland, these people down there really are all out of luck.

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u/khoabear Sep 11 '23

It's not a problem for Australia because they have a huge desert between their mine and their big cities.

4

u/quintus_horatius Sep 11 '23

I hear you saying that they've been towed outside of the environment

1

u/[deleted] Sep 11 '23

Also see: Australian asbestos mines

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u/RHGrey Sep 11 '23

Most of Australia is already a toxic wasteland hell bent on killing you so eeeh

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u/NimbleNibbler Sep 11 '23

Australia actually mines the most lithium of any country, but then it mostly goes through china anyways because they do most of the refining.

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u/Firewolf06 Sep 11 '23

to be fair we bought titanium from the ussr to build the a-12/sr-71 to spy on the ussr

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u/TimX24968B Sep 11 '23

big oil just starts burning the oil for big electric

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u/Sweetwill62 Sep 11 '23

Remember, lobbying is not a bad thing, people do bad things with neutral ideas all the time. Lobbying is simply speaking to an official to try and sway their vote on an issue. This covers everything from the awful huge PAC's to your ability to talk to your mayor. Lobbying is great, improperly regulated lobbying is what got us into this situation.

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u/ldphotography Sep 11 '23

Plot twist. Big oil is big electric!

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u/SilentSamurai Sep 11 '23

You'll likely see this.

US dropping a considerable dime to start domestic semiconductor production is probably one of the biggest public signs that the government is completely expecting a Pacific showdown in the next 20-30 years.

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u/fruitmask Sep 11 '23

US dropping a considerable dime

that's... not what "dropping the dime" means

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u/fatcat111 Sep 11 '23

You are being downvoted for some reason, but dropping a dime refers to snitching. Dropping a dime into a pay phone to contact the authorities. OP is right though, he just used the wrong idiom.

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u/ObiOneKenobae Sep 11 '23

It's been used the way he used it for decades.

6

u/rshorning Sep 11 '23

It can also mean simply spending a whole lot of money. It can have multiple meanings at the same time, with even regional and sub-culture influence also having an impact on how a phrase like that is used.

It really isn't even the wrong idiom, just perhaps you might not be from the same part of the world that the poster is from. Or you might have a slightly different religious or ethnic background too.

The price for making a phone call on a pay phone has changed quite a bit over the years, and was only a dime for a specific period of time. That said, I do remember when first aid kits had a dime taped inside the box so you could call emergency services like police or a hospital...before 9-1-1 or other organized emergency service call centers were common.

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u/Kolby_Jack Sep 11 '23

What's a pay phone?

This joke brought to you by the year 2023. "2023! That show you loved in middle school is now old enough to drink!"

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u/Beznia Sep 11 '23 edited Sep 11 '23

The phrase has definitely changed meanings. It's a pretty common expression to say "Man, he dropped a dime or two on that new boat."

"I'm about to drop a dime on my roof, not looking forward to that bill..."

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u/Grabbsy2 Sep 11 '23

They didnt say "the" dime, though. Sounds like youre thinking of an older, specific saying, versus its modern evolution.

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u/SilentSamurai Sep 11 '23

Really depends where you're from.

In my neck of the woods it means dropping a lot of money.

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u/gangofminotaurs Sep 11 '23

a Pacific showdown in the next 20-30 years

In 30 years we will be too far down in the energy and climate crisis to have any form of serious showdown; it will not be affordable. If the US really really wants it (and it does) it will have to come sooner than that.

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u/SilentSamurai Sep 11 '23

Lol.

Energy isn't going to be an issue. Since renewables are now among the cheapest ways to produce electricity, the market has already begun shifting. Ford shut down it's internal combustion division a year or two ago.

Climate will get worse, but on 20-30 years we are not going to see any condition that really means it's game over for the planet.

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u/[deleted] Sep 11 '23

I don't think you can really infer that. The worlds semi-conductors are dangerously consolidated for any major disaster and COVID just helped everybody remember how supply chains really work.

War is one of many issues with consolidating something with ever growing importance into just one region, it was going to happen eventually regardless of China's political direction and such.

China starting a war would screw up their exports much worse than it would screw up US exports. I don't think they'll ever really be in a position to do that in 20 years of getting their ass kicked by climate change and kind of idiotically bad government. Monolithic government doesn't tend to scale well with complexity due to all the consolidation. As their wages go up they are no longer a great labor deal and then their government has to become a real government that can guide them into a middle class circular economy.. with one of the biggest populations right in a climate change red zone.

I think China won't be doing much of anything but slowly crumbling until they turn into a real Democracy, because if they just try to deflate and stick with cheap labor they still just get replaced by cheaper labor and more and more automation. It's going to be flood/drought pandemic and famine city over there for the next couple decades probably.

Like plenty of this stuff is being moved to Vietnam, hardly well outside of a pacific war.

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u/krozarEQ Sep 11 '23

A Pacific sort of NATO could slowly emerge. The US is capitalizing on the hate Xi is building up around the South China Sea. If Xi can spur on enough to overcome some of the centuries-old feuds in the region, it could happen. But if not, it will still mean a lot more US bases in SE Asia in any case. China has seen this coming though, and it's a big reason why the CCP is keeping the Myanmar junta propped up. That's their bypass for the Straits of Malacca.

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u/[deleted] Sep 11 '23 edited Mar 03 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Hoooooooar Sep 11 '23

You can have 90% margins in the us or 99.7% margins with slave labor overseas. Please choose how you will deliver value to the shareholders.

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u/bigsquirrel Sep 11 '23 edited Sep 11 '23

Yup we don’t want dirty nasty mines in our backyard. Corporations nations don’t want to compete with overseas markets (they can, they would just make slightly less billions) so we will continue to export environmental disaster, misery and death so little Timmy can get a new (insert whatever batter powered gadget of the year) for Christmas. *man my spelling today

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u/Joe_Jeep Sep 11 '23

It's less about Timmy and more about billionaires trying to make more and more

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u/bigsquirrel Sep 11 '23 edited Sep 11 '23

Sure but Americans insane thirst for piles and piles of useless shit isn’t helping. I don’t live like a kink (ha Monk)* or anything but years living abroad makes me reflect on my own purchasing habits with embarrassment. So much pointless shit that only lines the pockets of billionaires and ultimately hurts people in other countries.

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u/MattcVI Sep 11 '23

Yeah but who cares about people who might as well not exist since I can't see them? I need another delivery so I can be excited about the package when it comes. Just one more and I swear I'm done cold turkey, please?

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u/headunplugged Sep 11 '23

"Coronations don’t want to compete with overseas markets". <= this is the root problem.

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u/bigsquirrel Sep 11 '23

Ha my spelling is so bad today. Gotta pay more attention to what autocorrect is throwing in there.

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u/[deleted] Sep 11 '23

It depends really, in some cases you really can't make the product in the US and sell it to some market with much less GDP per capita and you really do spread wealth and give out jobs with Globalism.

The biggest re-distribution of wealth in human history is when western nations adopted modern globalism... where ppl actually get paid.. not the other kind!

You can see it in the global GDP graphs where developing countries diverge from being locked to developed nations growth if you're actually interested.

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u/LoseAnotherMill Sep 11 '23

I, too, like making up situations and then getting mad at people for them.

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u/pillage Sep 11 '23

You...you think it is Republicans that are in the way of mining? Like, you actually think, if there was a new mine being constructed it would be a bunch of white dudes in New Balance shoes out there protesting its construction? No, please, lie to me, tell me that's what you think.

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u/fireky2 Sep 11 '23

They love mines but hate green energy. They'll call the mines woke

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u/pillage Sep 11 '23

I can assure you there is nothing green about lithium mining.

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u/notquitedeadyetman Sep 11 '23

Even the people I know who are skeptical about climate change, are completely open to alternative forms of energy. Outside of environmental concerns, it’s obvious that more efficient and more accessible energy will mean lower costs and better infrastructure. Nobody is actually against these things.

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u/foozefookie Sep 11 '23

The state that is leading the way for green energy is Texas…

0

u/SharkFart86 Sep 11 '23

Just send all the Kentucky coal miners to that volcano mine. We’ll finally stop hearing them bitch about losing their jobs that they somehow think they need more than we need to not kill the climate.

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u/pillage Sep 11 '23

Beautiful clean planet saving lithium strip mining.

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u/SharkFart86 Sep 11 '23

Still better than mining coal and reintroduction all that carbon into the atmosphere that had been locked away for millions of years.

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u/GoldenPresidio Sep 11 '23

only if supplies become an issue. lots of enviornmental issues that we quite frankly would rather have a poor country deal with

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u/Farados55 Sep 11 '23

Yeah this. There’s such a push to bring back domestic production into on large scale for vital computing resources. Production isn’t cheap in the US but even TSMC is making a factory here. Having a big domestic lithium source is legit.

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u/KaBob799 Sep 11 '23

Strategically I feel like it would make sense to have a small mining operation running that is ready to be quickly expanded if supply ever becomes an issue.

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u/RuairiSpain Sep 11 '23

Watch Elon buy up the land and employ child workers to skirt labor laws. Musk the government subsidy queen

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u/yearz Sep 11 '23

The US govt doesnt need to fork out money, it needs to reduce the tangle of red tape that makes building new mines uncompetitively expensive and time consuming

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u/[deleted] Sep 11 '23

Negative. Even our rare earths are shipped to Asia for processing. It's a filthy filthy business. There's nothing green about it

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u/Vulpix73 Sep 11 '23

I said lithium was strategically important, not green. Not all uses for batteries are in the name of saving the planet, with a fair few military uses like automated weapons and portable communications. That's the kind of stuff you don't want to suddenly lose your supply of if a large amount of your economy is built around the military.

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u/justafang Sep 10 '23

But cant they extract them from spent oil wells? Or is that process still being figured out?

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u/djfreshswag Sep 11 '23

That’s still a ways away from happening, but is progressing. Different brines contain different salts at different concentrations. Most high oil and gas producing basins don’t have good brines, they’ve got high radioactive salts.

From what I’ve heard there’s some O&G wells in Arkansas that the brine is more favorable for. Supposedly Exxon bought up the rights to a lot of land in that area. Currently working on a proposal for direct lithium extraction plants that the company is targeting Arkansas as a potential.

I’ve also got friends working on Thacker Pass (the mine mentioned in this article). Will be very interesting to see how competitive it is, I don’t think there’s any mines in operation using this technology with clays, everything is brine or spodumene.

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u/VikKarabin Sep 10 '23

Regardless, labor costs are high in US

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u/justafang Sep 10 '23

Labor costs may be high. But its about what they can produce for the labor cost.

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u/BrienTheBrown Sep 10 '23

It's not like you can outsource a volcano mine either.

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u/justafang Sep 11 '23

Oh this is the US, we can outsource ANYTHING!!

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u/Pholusactual Sep 11 '23

Expect a few key Republicans to stop saying illegal immigration is a threat, and then buy fourth yachts.

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u/tcp36pita Sep 11 '23

Is that how it works? Or does it stay illegal, or even more illegal, while still happening, and the workers are paid less and treated worse than I’d they were documented? Asking for a friend

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u/Austin4RMTexas Sep 11 '23

Wouldn't an abundant source of something lower the value of it, and thus make it less profitable to mine?

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u/TMack23 Sep 11 '23

Demand is going up, like potentially 6x by end of decade. Granted that’s a lot of guesswork but there also may be strategic reasons investment in an extraction effort would see support.

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u/Legitimate_Tea_2451 Sep 10 '23

That's just an incentive to use fewer humans, just like how mechanization has killed coal mining as a lifestyle choice

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u/Extension_Assist_892 Sep 11 '23

I would say management costs are high. Labor aint getting paid shit.

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u/VikKarabin Sep 11 '23

Well in south america or whatever labor is getting only 10% of that shit

1

u/cecilmeyer Sep 11 '23

Better to use children to mine than pay more right?

0

u/VikKarabin Sep 11 '23

It depends, are we doing the numbers or are we being humane? Humanity is bad business

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u/babypho Sep 11 '23

Time to import those immigrants

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u/[deleted] Sep 11 '23

The whole 20 of them or so? Mining (same as drilling) is at high end is extremely automated. People are not a particularly high overhead. The equipment costs way more. If this winds up being a strip mine, I doubt that this will be more than a couple dozen people.

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u/ComposerOld5734 Sep 11 '23

Better than importing it from a geopolitical standpoint.

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u/BDistheB Sep 14 '23 edited Sep 14 '23

Lithium is not scarce. For example, the deposit at Manono Congo is a monster & can be mined at zero cost due to tin credits. The only major cost is transport of 6% grade spodumene because Manono is in the middle of Africa far away from sea ports. But if an LCE Refinery can be built at Manono then the spodumene deposit becomes hyper economic because the transportation costs of LCE is trifling. Currently, the lithium supply problem is getting mines into production. In other words, Thacker Pass (which I assume to the subject of the article) has assessed production costs of $6,743/t, which is double the cost of salt lake & other major deposits. While LCE is currently $26,000/t, prior to Covid, it was selling for $8,000/t. Therefore, the Thacker Pass project looks marginal once new major mines come on line. In other words, all the USA has got going for it is its deadly War Machine & Fake Propaganda Media. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQUXuQ6Zd9w

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u/turbo_dude Sep 11 '23

Define cheap. Having control over your entire supply vs begging it from an authoritarian state.

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u/kanga_lover Sep 11 '23

We got your back mate, come to aus and dig up as much as you want.

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u/Gorstag Sep 11 '23

Fair enough. But is also the US govt (military) doesn't want to be reliant on foreign countries for a rare"ish" resource. Especially one that currently doesn't have a good alternative.

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u/babydakis Sep 11 '23

Nothing screams "cheap" like mining in a volcano.

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u/ButWhatAboutisms Sep 11 '23 edited Sep 11 '23

Regulations? What? We can't just pour horrific chemicals into the ground and wash it all off into the local water supply and rivers?

Fair pay? Minimum wage???

You know what, im going to China and Africa to see if i can get a better deal.

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u/VikKarabin Sep 11 '23

Well there is a lot of hungry business people and contractors in the area dreaming if Elon Musk coming up with some cool way to mine.

1

u/screch Sep 11 '23

hurry the fuck up boston dynamics

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u/Local_Perspective349 Sep 11 '23

We'll coup who we want to.

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u/Attack_Symmetra Sep 11 '23

Unless we start rolling back those pesky child labor laws.

-1

u/yakubscientist Sep 11 '23

Good. Mining is terrible for the environment. It poisons the water aquifers. Fuck mining. Space mining is the future.

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u/alnarra_1 Sep 11 '23

It's only expensive if you use US Labor, what state is this volcano in? I'd be on the lookout for some human trafficking in that direction.

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u/Glorious_Jo Sep 11 '23

Crazy to me that mining is such an important job yet ive never met a miner in my life

1

u/Informal-Seaman-5700 Sep 11 '23

On the scale this would be happening, it would be pretty damn relatively cheap.

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u/Smitty8054 Sep 11 '23

Even if so we have it.

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u/_trouble_every_day_ Sep 11 '23 edited Sep 11 '23

Just annex the volcano to china. Domestic globalism. Better yet, just build a prison next to it.

1

u/Fluffcake Sep 11 '23

You say this now, but next thing you know there is a new prison popping up next to this, and suddenly it is cheap to mine in the US again.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 11 '23

Eh the mine near me make a fuck ton on copper. Like a fuuuuuuk ton. Like a fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuk ton.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 11 '23

Cheap is a fear for economists. Lack of local resources is a military fear.

The US wants both. That's why the US developed the fracking industry and surged production. They want cheap oil that they control the supply of. Ideally, it's another country's resource being sold cheaply, but the best way to control the price is to directly control the resource itself.

1

u/Dovahkiinthesardine Sep 11 '23

just let the children at it for less than minimum wage and poor safety regulations

1

u/Minimalphilia Sep 11 '23

With the lithium deposit discovery in Norway, I have a certain feeling that cheap lithium is all there is.

1

u/VikKarabin Sep 11 '23

Again, it's free it in the dirt. Cost of lithium is cost of mining it.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 11 '23

How does shale gas and oil work then.. derp derp.

1

u/kuroyume_cl Sep 11 '23

Lithium mining is also extremely dirty and damaging to the environment. Part of the appeal of EVs for rich countries is it essentially allows for exporting their environmental cost to poor ones.

1

u/Dugen Sep 11 '23

It's not cheap to mine with properly paid workers, safety standards and somewhat mitigating environmental damage. It's worse to mine outside the US, but our crap trade rules force us to chose the worst path available, because it's the cheapest. IMO, border adjustments to compensate for shitty methods of production should be standard practice.

1

u/AsyncEntity Sep 11 '23

At such a high grade I’m guessing the cost/benefit ratio makes it worth it though.

52

u/GeneticsGuy Sep 11 '23

Lithium is one of the most abundant materials on the planet. The REAL fear has been finding "cheap" access to it as they didn't want to pay a premium. Australia alone has so much lithium it probably has enough to provide for the entire world for the next 1000 years on their own, but Australia lithium is expensive because it's mining it in a 1st world nation with 1st world wages. China, on the other hand, has mass reserves of lithium and they sell it liquid dirt cheap, so lots of people like to get it from China, or in Africa, for these 3rd world labor prices.

So, whenever you hear about "shortages" of supply and so on, just know it is mostly fearmongering by corporate media that isn't telling you the whole story in many cases.

20

u/[deleted] Sep 11 '23

In my mind it’s similar to oil. Always good to have a reserve of a critical resource within the country. We might not mine it, but having it available gives us much much more bargaining power.

7

u/Allydarvel Sep 11 '23

So, whenever you hear about "shortages" of supply and so on, just know it is mostly fearmongering by corporate media that isn't telling you the whole story in many cases.

The main problem is those mines take time to come online and demand doesn't wait until the mines are ready. This has pushed the price of lithium up so that it is almost unaffordable in some applications. There's a huge amount of research into batteries that don't use lithium, so its possible by the time the mines start producing that lithium will not be required in the expected quantities. Two Chinese companies are already offering vehicles with sodium-ion batteries.

9

u/[deleted] Sep 11 '23

Not really about wages, just permitting costs and obstructionists abound.

But yeah, there's no shortage of cheap lithium. It's just ignorant market perception driving the hype at this point.

Prices will crash in short order.

0

u/[deleted] Sep 11 '23

[deleted]

1

u/[deleted] Sep 11 '23

That's not the same thing. Obstructionists don't want anything- it's not about "doing things right" it's about making sure nothing can be mined ever.

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2

u/WenzelDongle Sep 11 '23

It's not widely understood that "reserves" is an economic term. Something classed as such means that it can be extracted profitably. There are many more resources around the world than can be found in reserves, and many will become reserves if the price goes up.

1

u/deelowe Sep 11 '23

So, whenever you hear about "shortages" of supply and so on, just know it is mostly fearmongering by corporate media that isn't telling you the whole story in many cases.

Some lithium sources are simply too expensive to mine. It's not "fear mongering" when corporations complain about lithium sources citing concerns about long term viability due to costs.

1

u/Langsamkoenig Sep 11 '23

If China has such mass reserves, why do they mine barely any? The vast majority of lithium is mined in Australia and Chile.

1

u/MetalGhost99 Sep 12 '23

Now we have allot more than anyone else. This mine is double of the second biggest mine in the world which is much more than what Australia has.

77

u/texachusetts Sep 11 '23

The lithium shortage fear industry will keep going just fine. Anyway they already have their bases covered with the lithium battery fire fear market. Gasoline clearly the safest transportation energy solution available. /s

30

u/lurkinglurkerwholurk Sep 11 '23

And if that fear runs out, remember; there’s always the lithium environmental disaster fear.

10

u/gayety Sep 11 '23

And if those fears end we can circle right back to the fear of your transportation kicking the absolute shit out of you because you walked behind it too closely

-3

u/crosstherubicon Sep 11 '23

You forgot nuclear when considering safest. /s

3

u/Slick424 Sep 11 '23

Behold!

1

u/crosstherubicon Sep 11 '23

Brilliant.. I had the hot wheels car! Probably the closest a nuclear powered car will ever come to reality.

1

u/PM_ME_UR_PET_POTATO Sep 11 '23

I really dislike this sort of narrative, it just removes any sense of nuance and automatically assumes any criticism towards battery usage is anti-environmentalist.

Batteries are not the be all and end all of infrastructure. You do not just make things eco friendly when you suddenly remove whatever was there before and add batteries. That's honestly the worst form of greenwashing.

9

u/ohno1tsjoe Sep 11 '23

We’ll end up exporting it for the monies

2

u/Brookenium Sep 11 '23

Well yes... by mining it lol...

2

u/Indemnity4 Sep 11 '23

Yes...?

This mine is owned by a Chinese company. They will dig up the ore, process it just a little bit onshore, then send the lithium concentrate to China to be turned into battery materials.

3

u/danielravennest Sep 11 '23

Mining is always ground-breaking.

1

u/MovingInStereoscope Sep 11 '23

Finally somebody gave me recognition for that pun.

2

u/Lamprophonia Sep 11 '23

groundbreaking

You dirty dog

-2

u/[deleted] Sep 11 '23

[deleted]

7

u/dumbsoldier987hohoho Sep 11 '23

My man, I heard the same stupid conspiracies 20 years ago with Afghanistan/Iraq and Oil. Did it end up been truth? Stop believing this type of shit for fucks sake. When was the last time the US invaded a country for resources? If they didn't do it to Saudi Arabia when it was just sand....why now? If they haven't done it to Venezuela when their president wakes up just to shit on the USA daily...why now?

You link to a video accusing the USA of trying to limit China investment in these countries....do you think China is not doing the same thing? Come on man. These countries (Argentina/Chile) are still getting fucked no matter who they do business with but at the end of the day and knowing their track record you think these countries will be better off with China/Russia or USA/Europe?

0

u/WeltraumPrinz Sep 11 '23

God loves the US.

1

u/Apprehensive_Ear7309 Sep 11 '23

Countries who have big lithium deposits are in fear of the US.

1

u/el___mariachi Sep 11 '23

Literally groundbreaking

1

u/outwar6010 Sep 11 '23

Almost like america goes to war over those sorts of resources.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 11 '23

We’ll lower Trump down there to get it.

1

u/SynbiosVyse Sep 11 '23

This is great, now the cost of electric cars will go down! /S

1

u/TwilightSessions Sep 11 '23

::bugs bunny communist meme:: our lithium

1

u/Langsamkoenig Sep 11 '23

I really doubt that the US had any fear. There is lithium literally everywhere. The question is just if it's cheaper to mine than in Chile and Australia.

Also if the US had any genuine fear they wouldn't have China let have 100% of lithium refining. That can be done literally everywhere.

1

u/vhalember Sep 11 '23

Lithium Valley (the Salton Sea in southern CA) is ramping up to produce 600,000 tons per year by the end of the decade.

There's a lot of fear of a lithium shortage, but lithium will be cheap soon. To the point it's being claimed EV's will become cheaper than ICE vehicles. We'll see, I see corporate greed getting in the way of that one.

1

u/fat_charizard Sep 11 '23

groundbreaking find

I see what you did there

1

u/yekNoM5555 Sep 11 '23

Or it could ruin planet because it might play a big part in earths ecosystem. Same goes for fossil fuels, how do we know 100’s, 1000’s of years down the roar the earth we need these materials to stay stable.

1

u/MovingInStereoscope Sep 11 '23

We knew 100+ years ago that the burning of fossil fuels was bad. How would the toxic remains of biomass be needed to stabilize an ecosystem?

Same with lithium which we have a greater understanding of because it's a basic element. We know what it will and will not interact with. We already know high Li in soil is toxic to plants. The disposal of this will be an issue, granted.