r/theydidthemath 3d ago

[request] Is the $20 billion figure cited accurate?

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u/Wesly-Titan 3d ago

I'm not saying it would end homelessness. But if you gave every homeless person in america a home for 1 year, no stress, you might be surprised at what they could accomplish. It's hard to get your life together when your nervous system is stressed to capacity 24/7.

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u/edwardothegreatest 3d ago edited 3d ago

They’ve done this, just give homeless people an income for a year, and the majority of the homeless in the program become self sufficient by the end. Like, a big majority.

Edit: I misremembered this. While the study found that few used the money for drugs etc, and 45% got shelter, it was not conclusive about what it would take to become self sufficient, though some did.

Study is here: https://coloradosun.com/2024/06/19/homeless-payments/

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u/arbiter12 3d ago

I know you really want this to be true, but homelessness (especially in the US) is rarely the "just lack of a home". It's also being unemployable, having health issues, having no documentation (literally us citizens with no ID and no way to get one), drugs, mental illness, lack of marketable skills, and so many more things. (that can happen alone or all at once).

To say that "most US homeless just need 12 months of rent" is just not true. Maybe 40 years ago.

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u/edwardothegreatest 3d ago

You are correct and I have corrected. See above

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u/arbiter12 2d ago

I respect that :)

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u/Powerful-Eye-3578 3d ago

Most of that stuff is exponentially easier to address when you do have a home is the point.

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u/arbiter12 2d ago

exponentially easier != easy.

Solving implies fully solved, however, not "exponentially easier to solve".

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u/Powerful-Eye-3578 2d ago

Sure, but not doing anything to help until we can do something that completely help just lets the problem get worse. Don't let perfection be the enemy of good and all that.

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u/Arcticwulfy 2d ago

Doesn't matter, by the time you only have the impossible cases, you have gathered enough people back into work life you have gained enough taxpayers that will contribute to society so much it will save money and create more wealth.

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u/haibiji 3d ago

You would be surprised at how many people just need some economic relief. There’s a reason why homelessness is worse in the places with the highest housing costs

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u/arbiter12 2d ago

factually incorrect once again.

Goes without saying that homelesness is generally worse in poorer countries, but even in wealthy countries alone it's generally worse (and worse-addressed) in rural areas (per capita, of course, density is obviously lower).

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK218242/

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u/haibiji 2d ago

Did you just link to a book from 1988?

Edit: also, “once again?” I don’t think I’ve ever talked to you before.

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u/Loud-Ad-2280 3d ago

That’s how countries with low homelessness did it. They just gave them homes

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u/ShikaMoru 3d ago edited 3d ago

Huh? So you mean to tell me if there's more healthy people living in livable situations, that it would help everyone as a whole? Mind. Blown.

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u/Loud-Ad-2280 3d ago

Crazy right! It’s almost like the common person doesn’t benefit from other people’s suffering. I wonder why we let so much suffering occur?! I wonder if there is a class of people that benefit from said suffering?!? Couldn’t be the class of people saying that people deserve to suffer right?!?!?!

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u/ShikaMoru 3d ago

Hmmm, now who could be raking in all the benefits while the ones who suffer continue to get taken from and get nothing in return? Surely, there must be a culprit or multiple culprits behind this, right??

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u/Loud-Ad-2280 3d ago

That would make sense! But I’m much too angry about a multicolored flag to look into that!

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u/ShikaMoru 3d ago

Those darn alphabet ppl that don't affect any part of my life or supposedly groom and mess with kids, unlike those ppl who constantly appear in the news for doing it. It's just a coincidence that the majority of them represent the same party and for some reason are religious leaders BUT ITS JUST A COINCIDENCE THATS ALL!

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u/Loud-Ad-2280 3d ago

They were just tempted by the devil!!!! If only they were billionaires like Musk and Trump then they can hang around with people like Epstein and resist the Devil, see you need money to resist the devil!!! That’s why we need your donations every Sunday!!!

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u/ShikaMoru 3d ago

Amen! And one of the best ways to avoid the devil is to have your own plane! You see, you have to resists the temptations of being around heathens while you're up in the sky and closer to Heaven. That's why Epstein and Preacher Kenneth Copeland did it

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u/Square-Singer 3d ago

If only more people managed to learn the alphabet in school...

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u/tianavitoli 2d ago

who pays the property tax?

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u/Loud-Ad-2280 2d ago

The same people who pay the property taxes on any government property, because that’s what it is.

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u/tianavitoli 2d ago

logically then, homelessness can be "solved" by just abolishing property taxes

housing is a human right after all

i mean or you can just have everyone live in government built owned and operated apartments

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u/Loud-Ad-2280 2d ago

If that’s how you read the words I typed I can’t help you

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u/tianavitoli 2d ago

did you write what i wrote?

i actually only see what i wrote where i wrote

did you read those words i typed?

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u/Loud-Ad-2280 2d ago

I don’t even understand what you’re trying to say, have a good one

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u/Silent-Hyena9442 2d ago

I mean the largest barrier to "solving" homelessness has always been logistics not money.

Its where do you build the homes/apts/projects, who will manage the properties for the underserved, how do you get services/food to the buildings, and where do you find the politicians willing to make all of the success/failure of this their problem.

People don't want homeless living next to them and will lobby tooth and nail to keep that from happening. Upkeep on buildings is a tough task, where do you find people to work on the buildings/ what do you pay them especially to work around people "Trying to get their life together". Then why would a politician ever choose to involve himself in this endeavor that will make lots of negative headlines about conditions, cost overrun, and violence.

If someone could figure out these hurdles then I am sure the plan would be implemented. But even just for the maintenance aspect I lived near Detroit before I moved to Chicago go to the Detroit sub and you will see how you cant get skilled plumbers, electricians, or roofers to go into the city and Detroit is fine for the most part. Imagine trying to get them to go to this establishment.

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u/tlrmln 3d ago

If you wanted to give every chronically homeless person a home for 1 year, first you'd have to kick out the person who already lives there, because we don't have a hundreds of thousands of extra homes lying around, especially in CA where homelessness is the worst. And then you'd probably have to bulldoze half of those homes after a year because they would be ruined for lack of maintenance, as most chronically homeless are either hopelessly mentally ill, or addicted to hard drugs, or both.

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u/NO_TOUCHING__lol 2d ago

first you'd have to kick out the person who already lives there, because we don't have a hundreds of thousands of extra homes lying around, especially in CA where homelessness is the worst.

Los Angeles and San Francisco have 5 and 13 empty homes per homeless person, respectively, so not only is this completely factually incorrect, you're also going to need to back up your statement "most chronically homeless are either hopelessly mentally ill, or addicted to hard drugs, or both" with a source other than "your ass."

https://unitedwaynca.org/blog/vacant-homes-vs-homelessness-by-city/

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u/tlrmln 2d ago

"Vacant" doesn't mean "available for homeless people to crash in." Half of the vacant homes in LA are ones that are on the market at any given time. Another significant percentage are vacation homes.

You can't just force people who own homes they don't use 100% of the time to let homeless people live in them. You'd have to buy those homes.

The average home price in LA is almost a million dollars. There are 75,000 homeless in LA. Even if you bought thousands of of "vacant" homes and crammed an average of 4 homeless people in each one (which I'm sure would be met with cries of inhumanity), it would still cost close to $20 billion. Just for LA. And that's not including the cost of upkeep, property taxes, etc. for those properties.

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u/MovinOnUp2TheMoon 2d ago

The (factual) point that u/NO_TOUCHING__lol was making is that it’s not a problem of supply.

It’s a problem of distribution.

Your response moves the goalposts and clouds the waters with new issues. (Why?) You originally said “we don’t have hundreds of thousands of extra homes lying around.” In fact we do.

Also, what’s the source of your claim that "most chronically homeless are either hopelessly mentally ill, or addicted to hard drugs, or both” ?

First, “Chronically” homeless is not most homeless. Most homeless in the US have an experience, (lost a job, medical emergency, family illness, you know: Life) and sooner or later work something out. It’s expensive to live in America, by the way, without help here and there, including “Generational Wealth."

Who are “Most Homeless?"

Reliable sources indicate most homeless were abused as kids, and most were foster kids, and most have suffered traumatic brain injury in one form or another.

Reliable estimates are that about 30% are on drugs (self reports put that at about 20%), mostly started AFTER BECOMING HOMELESS. Granted DRUGS is what your see on the street; because Most (about 2/3) of America's homeless are not on the streets all day, Most are at work, working at least one job.

You could contribute to the conversation if you were more sincere, empathetic or educated. All three, or any combo, would be Great! Almost Anything would be better than what you’ve demonstrated so far.

Cheers!

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u/NO_TOUCHING__lol 2d ago

Thanks for taking the time to type this out fam. After he moved the goalposts I figured he wasn't gonna argue in good faith, so I just said screw it and didn't bother replying lol

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u/MovinOnUp2TheMoon 2d ago

Yeah, sure. Complex issues and all, but sometimes it seems some folks get personally offended by facts when they don’t fit their prejudices….Oh well.