r/wizardposting • u/Q2_V artificer trained in all schools of magic • 1d ago
Academic Discussion/ Esoteric Secrets If I use only bones/flesh to build a construct (as an artificer) am a still an artificer or am I now a necromancer
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u/TheThoughtmaker Ray of Delthorensdale, Transmuter-Artificer 1d ago
Still an artificer. I’ve done the same.
Constructs and undead are fundamentally different no matter how similar their chemical composition.
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u/Q2_V artificer trained in all schools of magic 1d ago
But I haven't used Necrotic magic but have used materials that are infused with Necrotic energy's
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u/MuchoMangoTime Milosh the Retired, archmage of former DOoOOom 1d ago
That's still using necromancy. You might as well use the best of both worlds
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u/RathianColdblood Loruk Forgestone, Dwarven Dhampir 1d ago
Yes, but that’s still not the same as necromancy. Making potions from plants doesn’t mean I’m a druid. It’s difficult to draw the line on some of these, but I would argue that this one is pretty cut-and-dry.
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u/Scrpn17w Techno-Necro. Scrapyards hate me, graveyards fear me 1d ago
Welcome to the realm of undead machinery. We're so glad you could join us.
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u/Sockoflegend Necromancer 1d ago edited 1d ago
All dead things, the land itself, and many mundane materials materials contain necrotic energy. For what has never before been part of something once living, but now dead? Is wood not the corpse of a tree? Is iron not the flesh or an archon? Ultimately, everything in your world is the scattered remains of a long dead star.
It is not enough to use materials that reek of death to be true necromancy. You must use that necrotic energy as fuel, bind the soul, bend it to your will.
Do not trust this truth to protect you from the ignorant pesantry however. Such is their irrational fear of the dark arts that merely exhuming a corpse will already draw undesirable attention and ridiculous accusations.
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u/ASwarmOfGremlins 1d ago
Me too! My 'steel defender' is mostly organic. He's a rescue dog! No, wait, I was a bit too late to call it a rescue. Salvage! He's a salvage dog!
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u/thesausboss 1d ago
It all depends upon the nature of the complexity. Are you generating a construct that runs without any souls or life essence? This would be an artificers work that utilizes biological matter as their medium. Are you instead harnessing a soul or life essence that is tied to a corpse? This would be a necromantic procedure.
One is intrinsically mechanical, and the other is more magically based. Both use a little bit of magic here and there but necromancy is almost entirely magic, traditionally
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u/Q2_V artificer trained in all schools of magic 1d ago edited 1d ago
I used all artificer magic but to give creation autonomy I used a Soul gem
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u/thesausboss 1d ago
I believe this does technically count more as an artificers work. If you had done all the same but with metal it would be the work of an artificer, but since I'm a traditionalist believer for classifying necromancy I definitely am somewhat biased in my determination.
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u/TriggerBladeX Necromancer 1d ago
Definitely Artificer. I have something similar, but it’s 100% pure necromancy.
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u/BaconCheeseZombie Necromancer Chef 1d ago
If my vacuum cleaner breaks and I bring it back to life by combining it with the corpse of a small pig1 I'm still a necromancer as it's the corpse doing all the leg work. In just the same way you're still an artificer my dude.
1 The lungs act in place of the bellows, feeding is not required so the abdomen is hollowed out as the bag etc.
/uw
40k: Assembling a golem of meat and putting a soul into it is effectively how the Emperor created the Primarchs and he's hailed as the Omnissiah - the Machine God Incarnate (King of the Artificers or whatever), not as some Chaos Sorcerer (necromancer). The Primarchs weren't people, their very cells were artificially created, they were machines running on a soul as their operating system - as with your case.
IRL: If were to somehow wire up a bunch of corpses and make them clunk around despite their organs all being, y'know, dead you'd be dealing with some kind of biological machine - an artifice, if you willn't.
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u/Blochkato 1d ago edited 1d ago
What if, conversely, you harness a soul or life essence that you tie to a purely inorganic construct, like an iron golem, though alchemical means involving the sacrifice of living tissue on a principle of equivalent exchange? Is that necromancy?
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u/thesausboss 1d ago
Hmmm I believe this would still be an artificer work. I'll have to consult the tomes since I do know that there is a lot of overlap between the two methods once we start giving into theories like this.
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u/Starwatcher4116 1d ago
Depends on the method of construction. Victor Frankenstein, for instance, is definitely an artificer. But try not to make your creation supernaturally hideous and uncanny valley; if you’re going to tamper in the domain of any gods what are watching, make your monster blatantly nonhuman.
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u/DistractedPlatypus 1d ago
Artificer if you incorporate necromancy into the design then it’s necromancy, but if you use bones for material that’s just an odd choice. Otherwise people who made scrimshaw furniture would technically be whale necromancers
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u/ThisBloomingHeart Love Mage 1d ago
You are a necromancer if you use necromancy, which is a distinct type of magic. Building a construct out of dead organic material alone does not make a necromancer-just a similar sense of style.
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u/Conscious-Ad-6884 De-Ux the Demi-Incub, lead researcher of Orc Grass (Oink Weed) 1d ago
Ummm both? As a druidic wizard born a sorcerer dual/multi classing is welcome
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u/Unlucky_Tea2965 Necromancer, necrokind rights protector 1d ago
trying to blend in, spellless scum?
You ain't no necromancer
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u/Q2_V artificer trained in all schools of magic 1d ago
I will have you know I am trained in necromancy
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u/Unlucky_Tea2965 Necromancer, necrokind rights protector 1d ago
asking someones dead grandma for pie recipes doesn't make you a necromancer
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u/Intrepid-Device-1750 THE MORTAR MAGE, creator of power word humble 1d ago
I mean were all mechanisms. All you need to know is what parts go where and how they work.
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u/SignificanceNo4711 Dark lord, Shadow creature, High mage 1d ago
You wouldn't perhaps be available for hire now would you? I could use minions like that.
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u/Q2_V artificer trained in all schools of magic 1d ago
I am for hire however I never make two identical constructs and you must provide the materials
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u/SignificanceNo4711 Dark lord, Shadow creature, High mage 1d ago
The materials are a simple matter and as long as they look as terrifying as that I'll take it.
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u/RubiconPizzaDelivery Zeke, single yoked kobold in search of pretty druid lady 1d ago
Why not both?
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u/Virtual-Oil-793 Necromancer of Many Stories and Experiences 1d ago
If you're originally an artificer, you're still one. If you used soul manipulation to help fortify it, then you're a Necromancer (in which case, you would had used Soul Manipulation in the first place).
Don't worry - there's just a lot of overlap when you involve skeletons.
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u/NGPlusIsNoMore Potted Plant Wizard 1d ago
Necrotificer
If the bones have living tissue, then BioNecrotificer
You are also breaking... Like... Every fucking law
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u/Atzkicica Necromancer 1d ago
Welcome Brother! You can be both it's fine! As long as you pay... THE CURSED GUILD DUES!!! It's 30 coins a year, quite reasonable and you get the quarterly newsletter subscription.
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u/man_in_the_corner Arwium, Arch-Chaos Biomancer (ex, chaos god) 1d ago
Depends if the flesh is alive then your a biomancer
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u/blade740 Arch Wizard Khalifa 1d ago
You wouldn't be the first necromancer to build a flesh golem. You wouldn't be the first to try to spin it as "artifice" either.
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u/Viking_From_Sweden Kartoffel the Mechanus Arachne 1d ago
Depends on the specifics. Are ya nabbing their poor souls and jamming them back in their bodies to use as a source of power for the spell? That’s necromancy. Are ya putting your own magic into some dusty bones? Artifice.
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u/Minimum_Estimate_234 Biomancer 1d ago
Depends, are they still alive or is it just kept moving by magic?
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u/Fit-Organization1858 Evil Wizard 1d ago
Wizards really will do anything to evade regulation. We just need to deschedule necromancy
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u/KoffinStuffer 1d ago
That’s typically why laws usually aren’t against raising the dead, but desecrating a corpse. Temple Clerics raise the dead all the time without legal repercussions. It’s usually more about how you obtain a body and/or its parts.
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u/handsomemiles 1d ago
My brother in sorcery, if you reanimate a corpse you are a necromancer. If you create a homunculus you are an artificer, no matter what your medium is.
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u/GraveError404 Elder Lich 1d ago
That hardly seems like a relevant question, now does it? As long as what you’re making works as intended, you could be classified as a culinary artisan or a metallurgist for all the difference it would make. The fact that you can construct something like this is incredible on its own. Keep doing what you do my friend. Your contributions to arcane engineering could become a great boon for the rest of us
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u/prismaticperspective 1d ago
If you move bone, you are an Osteomancer If you move meat you are a Flesh artisan
Necromancy requires Movement or displacement of the SOUL. Im tired of all this paladin propaganda that makes everyone think enchanting parts of the human body makes one a necromancer!
Next thing you know they'll start calling bards and enchanters, and tavern wenches necromancers for giving you an erection!
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u/ASpaceOstrich 1d ago
It's only necromancy if it comes from the necromancy producing region of France. If it doesn't come from the necromancy producing region of France, you have to call it sparkling golemmancy.
On a more serious note, the materials don't make it necromancy, but the method. A fireball created through arcane is very different from a fireball created through light focussing illusion magic. If there's no reanimation there's no necromancy. It's the difference between a magic puppet and a skeleton warrior.
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u/Sad_Choice903 Ebonshade, the nice Necromacer 1d ago
I feel like this is as close to Artificing that Necromancy can be, but you’re at least partially a Necromancer, welcome to the club! :D
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u/BigSeaworthiness725 🦾Iterator from Technocratic Union⚙️ 1d ago
Dead bodies are technically the Matter as other inanimate objects, so you still make some kind of non-alive biorobot.
As for the stability of this structure, I would still strengthen it with some implants so it could function more efficient.
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u/-NGC-6302- Level 21 Geometer | [Hyperspace specialization] 1d ago
Go ask Trainwiz, he has experience with bone constructs. I specifically recall the "Familyman" and "OHGODOHFUCK" designs he had stored somewhere in the brass forest beneath the Wheels of Lull.
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u/47thCalcium_Polymer Arificer, novice wizard 1d ago
That… brings up a good point. I use necromancy in combination with artificy and a drop of druidcraft to make my constructs.
All of my tools are hand crafted but I speed up my metalworking with pyromancy. Being able to weld, or separate, two pieces of metal anytime, anywhere, is incredibly useful.
I use summoning circles to get a steady supply of mobile Fire and Water.
(I’m not telling you how I got summoning circles to stay open or move without my input. That is something I stole from a book that had since ceased to exist along with my memories of how to find it.)
So what the hell does that make me.
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u/BankTypical Necromantress Nerverra 💀 1d ago
Honestly, looks necromantic to me, so welcome to the club, friend! 😄 Love the creative use of the spines ahere, I might steal that idea for my next DIY project. Looks like it could do A LOT of damage to any adventurers wanting to mess with you.
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u/Sad_Choice903 Ebonshade, the nice Necromacer 1d ago
I feel like this is as close to Artificing that Necromancy can be, but you’re at least partially a Necromancer, welcome to the club! :D
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u/ledocteur7 I. CAST. FIREBALL!! 1d ago
If necromancy isn't what made/keeps it "alive" then it's still a construct, having some traces of necromancy magic in it is fine so long as it can still work without that.
I must warn you tho, if you were to fight a necromancer, you're constructs would be most likely turned against you by a simple reanimation spell.
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u/Another-Ace-Alt-8270 Ace Barksworth, Earthen Ambassador & Distant Admiral 1d ago
Still an artificer, but come on. We've all seen how weak a skeleton is, why swap to the more expensive method when it results in that?
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u/GravesSightGames 1d ago
Tomato, tomato 😂😂. Guess it depends on who your asking, personally I feel you're a necromancer, but the kid that make Beetle RCs is an artificer...hope that helps
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u/redpantsbluepants 1d ago
Are you using a different animating force than with a similar golem, such as a calcium enriched chalk golem? If you are, you might be a necromancer, calcium as a substance gets agitated unless enchanted in very specific ways, that’s why so many skeletal soldiers are constantly screaming even when not imbued with cognitive ability and why it’s so damn hard to source chalk for summoning circles.
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u/FoxxyAzure 1d ago
You're a Necroficer. Not to be confused with Artimancer who contains dark spirits to power their machines.
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u/-Milk-Enjoyer- Axeor Ulorick Qezax the curious. :illuminati: 1d ago
More like composter, I've never seen one of those amalgamations work, something to do with unmixed souls
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u/wallmonitor Chronomancy romance-y. 1d ago
Power source is the real factor. Are you making a bone construct and powering it with the same thing you’d use to power your standard teapot goose? Artificer. Are you summoning spirits and merging their corpses? Necromancer.
Teapot geese for sale!
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u/professorMaDLib 1d ago
I've talked about flesh golems before, or practially any constructs made from humanoid parts. Looks cool for the first time, huge waste of money and a headache, not very modular or iterable unless you're an expert with biomancy.
Personally if you have a background with constructs, stick to other materials. You get more value overall.
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u/staged_interpreter Wizard 1d ago
Call yourself whatever you want, if you worry about a judge and some weasels blabbering on about "crimes againts humanity" I can tell at least that you're not a wizard.
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u/Telemere125 1d ago
Artificer if you’re only using your own innate magic to animate stuff. It’s no different than using clay or metal pieces that look like bone. If you’re reanimating the golem via necromantic magic to make it its own form of undead, that’s necromancy.
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u/Greedyfox7 1d ago
I would say that if you’re building armor or something out of the bones you’re an artificer, if you’re building something like a flesh golem that falls under necromancy in my mind. Either way let’s be friends instead of enemies 😅
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u/shitpostinglegend Magically Editable Flair 13h ago
I do this professionally and tbh, most people do t care. Call it whatever you want
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u/blade740 Arch Wizard Khalifa 1d ago
Necromancer for sure. Animating bones and flesh is necromancy no matter how you try to spin it.
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u/Q2_V artificer trained in all schools of magic 1d ago
But I am building something out of bones and giving that construction life
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u/ean5cj Alchemist, Healer 1d ago
I think it might depend on how extensive is the "life" you give it - based on your earlier comments, you mentioned you're using a soul stone... I am unfamiliar with all of the effects of this item or where it gets its souls, but I've definitely seen folks calling themselves necromancers who simply animate (does not count in my book, but whatevs)
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u/Aetherom Evil Wizard 1d ago
What you are is banned from my cemetery!