I’m feel like I’m less ideologically captured than most people when dealing with Floyd. First off, yes he was a scum bag who victimized people on multiple occasions, the police were fully justified in arresting him, and there’s a very high chance he had already overdosed on fentanyl and was going to die pretty shortly after the arrest, regardless of the cop’s behavior.
However, Chauvin blatantly used excessive force in the arrest. If he had knelt on Floyd for 1-2 minutes while cuffing him, and then Floyd died, there wouldn’t be much of an argument. However, he knelt on him for nearly 10 minutes while mocking the crowd around him; even several minutes after Floyd stopped moving and even several minutes after he stopped breathing. It’s impossible to prove that Floyd would’ve died even if he hadn’t been knelt on, and even if he would’ve, torturing him on the way out is not something we should find at all acceptable in police. I truly believe in giving police the benefit of the doubt but I just can’t understand why so many people don’t see that Chauvin was waaaaay past that line
TLDR: Floyd was a scumbag and likely would’ve died anyways, but Chauvin clearly wanted to hurt him and his actions with the crowd indicates that he saw the citizenry as enemy combatants, not to even mention the fact that Chauvin had a record in that police department for more abuse accusations than anyone else
He left out that Floyd was already in the cop car, begged to be let out for air, kept saying he couldn't breathe, was let out of the car, tried to escape, and did resist being held. I believe he was already cuffed before chauvin put him on the ground, but chauvin couldn't get him back in the car. He cried wolf by saying he can't breathe and then trying to escape.
It's easy to say that he shouldn't have been kneeling on his neck that long, and you're right. I do think it still makes sense to keep in mind that the cop is dealing with a known dangerous criminal that is high as a kite and trying to fight him. If you watch the video, you can see that chauvin is trying to be helpful in the beginning, but stops when Floyd tries to escape and the crowd begins to get involved. He did seem to let him out of the car because he thought he was claustrophobic or having a panic attack.
On a related note, I saw a video where a guy played dead when tazed, and then kicked the officers knee backwards when he let his guard down. There's one where a guy pretends a tazer worked on him and then surprised the cop with a pipe. One guy called the cops for help, hid in the bushes at his house and mowed them down with an automatic rifle. You can actually find a lot of similar videos of you actually wanted to. Not trying to justify police brutality here. Just pointing out that things are very gray.
it's tough being a cop, you never know when someone might fight back.
i don't see anyone lionizing George Floyd, just using him as an example of how police can go too far. when you've got the guy pinned, how unsafe do you feel? you make a good point about there being plenty of evidence of people abusing callouts and then using them as an excuse to run or fight back - there are plenty of videos showing how quickly a knife wielder can close a distance of 20 feet and how a single bullet or two may not stop their adrenaline fueled charge.
but when the guy is cuffed, there's no Pipe, no Rifle, no Knife. when he's on the ground there's no kicking. you can control the guy without kneeling on his neck. even pulling back to kneel on his chest is preferable. do a little bjj or even a little judo, and you'll see that getting a guy who's lifting his chest off the ground back to the ground takes the simplest of moves. Chauvin was entirely in control and all the "other clips" in the world have nothing to do with the actions taken to murder Floyd.
If you'd actually done any ground fighting you'd know putting your weight on someone's upper back, like Chauvin did, is literally the most effective way to keep him in place. The lower you go, the more movement someone has with their torso, which means the easier for them to get up. The goal is that someone who's observedly high on unknown substances and acting erratic is not getting up.
PS. If he was actually kneeling on Floyd's neck, he wouldn't have been moving his head. It's extremely painful and does not allow you to pick up your head like Floyd was doing.
Chauvin murdered noone. The jury even publicly stated on TV that he didn't. They convicted him on the premise that they thought he could have done more to help Floyd.
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u/Big-Calligrapher4886 25d ago
I’m feel like I’m less ideologically captured than most people when dealing with Floyd. First off, yes he was a scum bag who victimized people on multiple occasions, the police were fully justified in arresting him, and there’s a very high chance he had already overdosed on fentanyl and was going to die pretty shortly after the arrest, regardless of the cop’s behavior.
However, Chauvin blatantly used excessive force in the arrest. If he had knelt on Floyd for 1-2 minutes while cuffing him, and then Floyd died, there wouldn’t be much of an argument. However, he knelt on him for nearly 10 minutes while mocking the crowd around him; even several minutes after Floyd stopped moving and even several minutes after he stopped breathing. It’s impossible to prove that Floyd would’ve died even if he hadn’t been knelt on, and even if he would’ve, torturing him on the way out is not something we should find at all acceptable in police. I truly believe in giving police the benefit of the doubt but I just can’t understand why so many people don’t see that Chauvin was waaaaay past that line
TLDR: Floyd was a scumbag and likely would’ve died anyways, but Chauvin clearly wanted to hurt him and his actions with the crowd indicates that he saw the citizenry as enemy combatants, not to even mention the fact that Chauvin had a record in that police department for more abuse accusations than anyone else