r/BeAmazed • u/ReesesNightmare • 23h ago

Science Learned Helplessness

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u/humptheedumpthy 23h ago

Amazing experiment. 

There is another piece of research I saw that showed that some of the best performing students outperform others NOT because they are smarter but because they are more persistent owing to an inherent belief that they SHOULD be able to figure it out. 

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u/donorcycle 22h ago

This is how teachers should be. Knowledge and prepare them for adulthood / life.

Our education system in the US currently is an absolute joke.

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u/RayLikeSunshine 10h ago

It’s called growth mindset. It’s why teachers have moved from “you’re smart” to “you work hard.” Source: I’m an American teacher.

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u/Naughtynuzzler 19h ago

I mean that is just blatantly not accurate. It absolutely varies on a state-by-state basis.

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u/donorcycle 19h ago

Do you know where we rank globally in terms of education?

I'll wait...

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u/Naughtynuzzler 19h ago edited 19h ago

Lol yes. I do. I'm a teacher. You have to take it on a state by state basis. Massachusetts, for example, when taken on its own compares very well to the rest of the world. Since states dictate the majority of educational policies within their own borders, national statistics are often heavily skewed by the low performing states.

I argue that the majority of our deficits are cultural, not educational. Being well educated doesn't seem to be a culturally relevant or popular thing to be right now in the US. And that's certainly not the fault of schools.

We have a decentralized system and serve a MUCH more diverse student body than basically any other OECD nation that tests. Our situation certainly calls for improvement, but to simply lump the blame at the feet of teachers and schools, and call what we do a "joke" is not a good-faith argument.

If you look at a country like Estonia, that boast extremely high test results, you can see that they benefit from a wide range of non-school related features that just simply make life easier for students. The government pays for all school food and transportation. All parents get over a year of parental leave, allowing them to spend essential learning time with their kids when they are young. Teachers have a much higher amount of classroom autonomy there - states and school boards often want to give us LESS autonomy in the US, not more. These are things schools cannot change on their own.

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u/donorcycle 19h ago

Let me preface that I have nothing but love for teachers. My comment is not directed at teachers - you are a singular entity, you cannot on your own be held accountable for our nations education system.

My comment was directed to the powers that be. The ones that purposely have systematically dummied down our education system, for their own reasons. Rockefeller family comes to mind. "I love the poorly educated." That particular side of the aisle has been toying with our education system from way back when. You are a teacher, I have no business educating you in history lol.

I firmly believe that teachers, educators et all are absolutely critical, treated like second rate citizens, and woefully underpaid. My comment 100% was directed to our government. The ones closing the Department of Education. They are the reason our education system is absolute trash. It's by design. We are the United States of America. No way shape or form should we be ranked 20th in the world. Semantics aside, some countries skewer the results, firmly agree with you. But not 19 countries. That is my point. We are still poop, lol.

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u/Naughtynuzzler 18h ago

I appreciate your clarification! There's a lot of people out there right now blaming education for a lot of things, and now a federal government who seems to only want to make.our jobs harder by taking away funding, so I'm a bit on edge lol.

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u/donorcycle 18h ago

I genuinely meant it earlier when I said - "this is how all teachers should be." Earlier, there was a video of a famous footballer and they surprised him with his old teacher when he was a little boy. This famous, somewhat cocky millionaire, turned back into a 8 year old little boy on the spot. Even took his hat off his head out of respect. My comment was - this is the kind of everlasting impact a proper parent like / educator / guardian / adult influence can have on a kid. Children will now and forever always be OUR future. They made that clear when I was a kid at least.

Education wise, there was a time in our country where we taught home ec, woodworking, metalworking, automotive, shop, etc. It gave kids the absolute basics on adulting, for when they graduate and go off into the world. It also gave the less than scholarly students at least some skill sets to use in trade work. I have 25 year old employees today who put tinfoil in microwaves and don't know to remove the container from the box with their frozen meals lol.

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u/Naughtynuzzler 17h ago

To be fair, the high school I teach at has a cooking class, a wood shop class, and a childhood development class (how to raise kids, how the early brain develops, etc.) A LOT of those skills you talk about - especially learning to not put foil in the microwave lol - were taught at home back then. Education starts with parents - we only see them for 6, 7 hours a day, 5 times a week. We don't get to teach them healthy eating habits, common sense around electrical outlets, proper hygiene... they need parents for that. And so many parents are either incapable of being there for their kids or struggling so much themselves that they physically can't manage it, you know? 90% of the teachers i work with certainly know that children are the future - but we inherit them as they come, and need to meet them where they are. Half my 9th graders enter high school and don't know their continents lol. And I don't necessarily blame their middle school teachers for that.

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u/noooooolikeusain 14h ago

I love the way you guys are interacting, respectful and sincere. And with a deep and critical understanding that teachers are not the problem, the system is, so thank you guys

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u/squaaawk 13h ago

My feelings exactly.

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u/richarizard 19h ago

Ugh, this line of thinking always annoys me. Sorry. The US education system is in roughly the top fourth or so in the world. Not amazing, but not really that bad either. There are a few standardized tests that measure this. PISA is a big one: https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/pisa-scores-by-country#title

The US still has a lot to learn from higher performing countries. Singapore has regularly topped the list for many years. Japan, China, and South Korea (e.g.) also typically score high. But the US overall also performs quite well. Ahead of many countries that might surprise you: Sweden, France, Germany, and Norway to name a few.

As u/Naughtynuzzler pointed out, the US is also a large country, so it's useful to look at it state by state. Generally speaking, wealthier blue states outperform poorer red ones, but the full picture is more nuanced than that. NAEP is usually the go-to standardized test for this question: https://www.nationsreportcard.gov/profiles/stateprofile?sfj=NP&chort=1&sub=MAT&sj=&st=MN&year=2024R3

I have zero faith in the nonsense currently happening (or not happening) in the current DoE, but the full US education system is much bigger than that. The full picture involves standards, teacher certifications, school accreditations, curriculum developers, and assessment structure, to scratch the surface. The US is not generally a world leader in this, but it is by no means an "absolute joke." Many countries don't even have compulsory K-12 education, let alone anything close to the Pre-K and post-secondary educational institutions that the US has.

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u/ghetto_dave 17h ago

Florida and Texas on the good list for 4th grade reading in 2024! Did not expect those states to be standouts. Great to see it though! All the other southern states need to do some catching up. Weer skrewin up da kidz.