Michigan Democratic Gov. Whitmer makes direct appeal to young men after sharp shift in election

[u/Healthy_Block3036]

https://apnews.com/article/michigan-governor-gretchen-whitmer-young-men-e237387d0762e900f2dc7e38a1c49f7b

[u/RupeThereItIs]

My point is that it's even more difficult to appeal to people that have already been exposed to said radicalization over a longer period of time, not necessarily attempting to radicalize them.

It's easier to radicalize people when your opposition is regularly demonizing them.

For to long a sizable chunk of the left has used "straight white male" as a slur. The idea that this demographic has problems we as a society should help with was laughed at. They need to appeal to that demographic, and stop pushing them IN to that right wing radical pipeline.

[u/space-dot-dot → u/RupeThereItIs]

It's easier to radicalize people when your opposition is regularly demonizing them.

For to long a sizable chunk of the left has used "straight white male" as a slur. The idea that this demographic has problems we as a society should help with was laughed at. They need to appeal to that demographic, and stop pushing them IN to that right wing radical pipeline.

Again with buying into right-wing propaganda of "Democrats blame white men". You do realize that white dudes still compromise the majority of Democratic politicians, and business leaders, and wealthy individuals, right? So they aren't really any sort of marginalized nor victimized populace. The Democratic Platform also runs nothing of the sort of what you claim.

While they might have problems, what are those problems? Why did those problems appear? Who creates these problems? They are the dominant demographic group, comprising roughly 30% of the populace. On the whole, they have the population, the wealth, the power, and the benefit of the doubt to change things. So why exactly haven't they been able to fix their own problems when no one else is actually holding them down? Why is everyone else, who has historically been subjugated to white men, now responsible for -- once again -- catering to them uber alles?

I do think there is space for the Democratic Party to learn that our populace simply isn't smart nor educated enough to understand the nuances of topics and history that are set forth in understanding the role that race had to play, and still plays, in our current society. If it truly didn't matter, far-right wouldn't be able to exploit it.

Folks that are looking for a way to exploit the messaging of, "Hey, other races, colors, genders, sexualities matter" they've certainly done a good job as it's incorrectly taken as an attack on white men. It's ultimately that old trope: when you're used to privilege, equality seems like oppression.

[u/SharpestOne → u/space-dot-dot]

This is a generational problem.

Where as the older generations have been able to experience the racism of the past, and the privileges that followed, the average young male today isn’t experiencing the same thing.

So when you tell them “you’re privileged”, they’re asking “what privilege man?”. They’re faced with far less opportunity and prosperity than prior generations. It’s hard to believe that the privilege exists when you’re unemployed and broke.

[u/RupeThereItIs → u/space-dot-dot]

Again with buying into right-wing propaganda of "Democrats blame white men".

It's not propaganda, it's just a fact.

Same as the fact that the Democrats have abandoned labor & yet somehow expect to still get their votes.

Criticizing the failures of the Democrats is HELPFULL, you can't course correct unless you take honest stock of your failures.

Honestly your whole tirade response proves my point.

You do realize that white dudes still compromise the majority of Democratic politicians, and business leaders, and wealthy individuals, right?

Also the majority of homeless. Men are far more likely to be imprisoned for the same crimes & drastically more likely to die at work. It's not "white men control everything" it's the top 1% control everything, and they happen to be white men because of some horrible historical reasons.

While they might have problems, what are those problems? Why did those problems appear? Who creates these problems? They are the dominant demographic group

Again, proving my point. You come back with anger & mockery of a very real critique of the parties message.

We've made leaps and bounds in improving the lives of women in our society. The nutzo right are pushing that backwards, we've done very little as a society to move men out of those old gender roles. When we identify problems that men have we mislabel it with slanderous terms like 'toxic masculity' that can be (and usually is) EASILY misinterpreted to mean that part of being masculine is inherently toxic and not what it really is: oppressive male gender roles. Male gender roles applied to men, starting at a very young age by men and women.

If you TRULY want to understand how we're failing young men & boys, I'd strongly recommend "Of Boys and Men: Why the Modern Male Is Struggling, Why It Matters, and What to Do about It". The author is FAR better at outlining the case for a systematic failure of our young men & boys. The fact we can't have honest & open discussion about this, without resorting to slanderous assumptions of misogyny & evoking poes law, is precisely the problem I'm talking about.

When one party says men are the cause of all their own problems and the other lies to them and says none of it is their fault, who do you think they'll support?

[u/Raichu4u → u/RupeThereItIs]

When one party says men are the cause of all their own problems and the other lies to them

Can you actually source some pretty important Democratic politicians saying this, and not just link to specific twitter posters?

[u/RupeThereItIs → u/Raichu4u]

Clinton claiming women are the primary victims of war... because the men they love are killed. Seems a bit obvious that one. https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/hillary-clinton-victims-of-war/

Using "old white man" as a slur, is amazingly common among the left wing bobble head class. https://www.miningjournal.net/opinion/2023/12/blaming-white-men-for-problems-is-political-stupidity/

If you happen to be a man, or a white man, and hear this, would that make you feel that this party has your interests in mind?

Is it a problem that a large percentage for the people in power are white men, and that representation of women & minorities is limited. Fuck yes.

Is it OK to talk as if being a straight white man should make you ineligible to be in power, or to even have an opinion? Fuck no.

When you realize your alienating men, especially young men & more so white men who are a LARGE part of the electorate... MAYBE you should change that tune.

That's not to say we shouldn't continue to strive for diversity, but we should NOT be punishing people who had nothing to do with the problems in the first place for it.

[u/Kalium → u/space-dot-dot]

Folks that are looking for a way to exploit the messaging of, "Hey, other races, colors, genders, sexualities matter" they've certainly done a good job as it's incorrectly taken as an attack on white men. It's ultimately that old trope: when you're used to privilege, equality seems like oppression.

If this is the pitch, we should all expect that young men won't vote for this platform. They'll vote for the one that treats their sense of loss as worth caring about. They won't vote for the one that leaves them feeling ignored, belittled, or otherwise unvalued.

Nobody is asking any of us to like this reality. However, we do seem to have to live with it.

I remember being a young man and feeling like I was struggling to get anywhere. It did not feel like Democrats, or even the lefty ones the internet likes to lionize, seriously cared about my problems. It often felt like I was expected to shut up, sit down, and pay up. March on demand, repeat the slogans, and toe the line. Vote happily and go back to the background.

I grimaced and voted on a regular basis. I did it because I genuinely believe in the ideals of liberalism. I sure didn't do it because I thought my fellow travelers had my back.

[u/keepgoingrip → u/[deleted]]

You are still trying to convince him that his problems don’t matter and aren’t worth discussing, worrying about, or making policies to try to help out with. And all people here are trying to get across to you is that that attitude doesn’t work. It just simply doesn’t. It very obviously doesn’t. You may think it’s “true” but it doesn’t promote positive change in the world. That should be easy enough to see with the result of the last election. In fact, this attitude may very well bring about the end of democracy in the US. Pretty fucking severely negative consequences, despite how correct you may feel, no?

[u/Kalium → u/keepgoingrip]

Right? I'm trying to help someone understand, and the only response they seem to be capable of is a quarter-baked lecture on intersectionality. They're heavy on how it's not my fault, it's the fault of people exactly like me, so I shouldn't feel guilty but instead I should introspect and decide that what I want doesn't matter as much as intersectionality.

The condescension is thick enough to build a house from. The artlessness of it makes it worse. They don't seem to be capable of grasping the possibility that I might understand the reality of multiple forms of oppression. Or that I can think about the political consequences of their attitude at scale while understanding.

It's a shame. I'm sure there's a kind, caring, empathetic, intelligent person under all that pattern-matching and regurgitated dogma. For now, though, they prefer to lecture instead of learn.

[u/butthole_surfer_1817 → u/keepgoingrip]

Isn't this shit infuriating? We can all see the results of just acting like this isn't a problem with the election, but they want to keep going with it to maintain their sense of moral superiority. Meanwhile, the sane ones on the left just have to watch them push people away over any difference of opinion and then act confused when the other party wins?? Just keep pushing people away from you, dismiss their opinions, refuse to look at yourself and what you could be doing better to get more people on your side, and get another fuck face elected again... internet leftists aren't going to help. Democrat leadership needs to shake things up big time if they want any chance in four years

[u/butthole_surfer_1817 → u/space-dot-dot]

Again with buying into right-wing propaganda of "Democrats blame white men". You do realize that white dudes still compromise the majority of Democratic politicians, and business leaders, and wealthy individuals, right? So they aren't really any sort of marginalized nor victimized populace. The Democratic Platform also runs nothing of the sort of what you claim.

The democratic party isn't really bad with this, but leftists on the internet are pretty bad, and instead of calling those people out on it, way too many people say oh they can't be racist/sexist, they're a minority/woman! As if being a bigot is so much better. Sorry, but I'm a white dude, and I feel like leftists on the internet just don't like us. Despite voting left my entire life, I just don't feel welcome - especially if I dare to have any pushback on what the left is doing. It usually devolves into dismissing me because of it, and other leftists just accept it. I'm not going to act like that type of rhetoric isn't hurting anything. You just wrote four paragraphs dismissing it

While they might have problems, what are those problems? Why did those problems appear? Who creates these problems? They are the dominant demographic group, comprising roughly 30% of the populace. On the whole, they have the population, the wealth, the power, and the benefit of the doubt to change things. So why exactly haven't they been able to fix their own problems when no one else is actually holding them down? Why is everyone else, who has historically been subjugated to white men, now responsible for -- once again -- catering to them uber alles?

You know this means fuck all for the 18 year olds that were 10 when Trump became President and this got kicked up to another gear, right? If you want to ignore that reality, go ahead. Just don't expect to gain any ground with the kids turning into adults that can vote.

[u/Fine_Luck_200 → u/RupeThereItIs]

Sorry but as a straight white male I find these excuses insulting. The little shits are mad they can't just be mediocre and land a good job like their half illiterate sperm donors.

My own father is an example of this. He was functionally illiterate. I got lucky and realized that early on. These little shits are finding out they are not special and never will be. They need the slap of reality and I hope the ladies continue to cut them out of their lives.

[u/RupeThereItIs → u/Fine_Luck_200]

The little shits are mad they can't just be mediocre and land a good job like their half illiterate sperm donors.

Pretty much what I said, and THEN they are being told it's somehow their fault.

That's the key, these "little shits" are too young to have created any of these problems, but are being lumped in with those that did by many on the left. It's an infuriating own goal to needlessly ostracize such a large percentage of the electorate for no real reason.

Your attitude & name calling is exactly the problem, honestly you sound very much like the "I got mine fuck you" so heavily weaved into the republican platform.

My own father is an example of this. He was functionally illiterate.

And the biggest problem young men & boys today are facing, is that we're systematically failing to educate them. The gender disparity in college education is wider then it was when title nine was introduced, if it wasn't that women are the ones advantaged this would be a huge political talking point. As it is, men are the ones disadvantaged at this point & it's being seen as "a good start" by the political & talking head class.

You are blaming the victims here. But don't just trust me on this, read "Of Boys and Men: Why the Modern Male Is Struggling, Why It Matters, and What to Do about It"... and don't just trust MY recommendation, it was on Barack Obama's summer reading list in 2024.

There are very REAL issues facing young men & boys today that need to be addressed, but one side says "that's their own fault" (weirdly the side claiming to be liberal & pro diversity) and the other says "it's the brown people's & women's fault, you're great but they are screwing you over".... you don't see how that's going to work with a frighteningly high subset of them, when there's constant talk of helping brown people & women, but deriding them on one side of the isle?

It's not just the right who are radicalizing these young men, the left is actively treating them like the enemy well before they right can get their hands on 'em.