Ok. So the Chandrian go around destroying things and the Amyr chase them around across thousand(s?) of years. And of late, real information about either group is very hard to come by.

This seems ... odd. Reminds me of Marvel Comic Movies. Superhero A grabs Supervillain X and throws them through a building doing lots of damage. Supervillain X shakily stands, gathers self together, and charges in, now grabbing Superhero A and doing the same to them. Repeat too many times. Kind of pointless to do these attacks if they aren't going to accomplish anything, right?

So, I want to assume they're actually up to something. We certainly have claims that this is true, even if nobody in the stories (except Kvothe's parents apparently) know what it is. One easy answer would be that the two groups are trying to destroy each other by destroying all record of them (Chandrian destroying records of Amyr, Amyr destroying records of Chandrian).

But no, it's pretty clear that the Chandrian are destroying all record of themselves. And whatever the Amyr are up to, it does not appear to be to stop the Chandrian from doing that - I'd expect fancy libraries with messages in stone or deeply engraved in steel or widely-circulated true stories if that was what they were up to. As for records of Amyr? Dunno - are they doing likewise, are the Chandrian destroying both kinds of records, or what, exactly? What happens if the Chandrian succeed? Do they become free of the curses upon themselves? What are the goals of the Amyr? They don't seem to be able to kill the Chandrian (see superhero fight above), nor are they preventing destruction of knowledge, they just show up at a scene shortly after the Chandrian do and ... do what?

I have a guess that Kvothe is wrong about the fire in his wagon when he'd fallen asleep in it - the Amyr want to destroy record of what the Chandrian did, so they set it on fire (so many statements that Amyr would do such things in the story, after all). But why? Isn't this helping the Chandrian, if the Chandrian are busily destroying all knowledge about themselves?

Sneaking in a second question: In Narrow Road, when Kostrel helps Bast interpret the embril stones, he sees one group of them as the Weeping Queen - who is that? Another group is the piper, who is thrice blinded and is dancing but too blind to know it - that feels like it's Kvothe, who I figure has almost all of his alar dedicated to the task of keeping him from remembering certain important facts, such as how to open his thrice-locked box and who is unable to do music anymore, possibly due to being unable to use his left hand now that he's a Chandrian... Then the third grouping where a sliver moon is next to the arch. Kostrel doesn't try to explain it and doesn't worry that he can't figure it out. But to me, the arch would be a path to the Fae, and the sliver moon means that the time that connects the two worlds is almost upon them all. Are these topics that have been discussed much? Are there better theories?

To combine these two questions: what if the Chandrian want to break the world away from the Fae entirely? Would this free them from their curses? They wouldn't be removing memory of themselves so much as they'd be removing all knowledge of the Fae in that case. Which does seem to be happening as well.

Im sure this point has been made, but I’m on another re-listen. Denna says her patron is an excellent dancer. The next scene with Bredon we see, is when he comes to kvothes new rooms to play tak. I casually thought, i wonder if he ever mentions dancing. Not but two seconds later, he mentions how the game is a dance, and then described good dancing in depth. Love moments like that.

1/5 the way through book #2 (so roughly 1/5th). And page 196-197 is striking me as the most important and impactful foreshadowing point of this story so far. It seems extremely validating and at the same time bewildering, that Auri is an incredibly important character since introduction, and will have and or should have.. a GIGANTIC impact on Kvothe’s life.

IDK, What are your thoughts on the most important two pages in this series?

I think Kvothe killing Alleg's (alleg-ory) troupe symbolizes the truth about how a lone Amyr killed Kvothe's troupe, in part because both Alleg and Arliden are specifically said to be left belly cut and crawling. THEORY: The Chandrian were eating rabbits, and the entire story pivots on that detail. : r/KingkillerChronicle

Viari is that 'lone Amyr'. He has scars on his hands, aka bloody-handed. He knows Ruh formalities, and says 'one family', the same phrase Kvothe uses to get past the false troupe's defenses. Viari carries a long knife and a sword, and the Mauthen massacre was said to be 'knife and sword work'. He works directly for Lorren, an Amyr. The acquisitions office has a map of Temerant and they investigate 'rumors', and Kvothe's lie about investigating rumors in Trebon for the University is ironic because the University DID send Viari to investigate rumors in Trebon IMO (about the pottery). I also think it is intentional that Viari's title isn't mentioned, but working for acquisitions makes him an acquisitor, and I think the similarity to the inquisition and inquisitors is intentional.

__

Lorren is likely Amyr and controlling the University Archives, purging historical information.

• “I found the same thing at the University,” I said. “It seemed as if someone had removed information about the Amyr from the Archives there. Not everything, of course. But there were scarce few solid details.”
• “Who would benefit most from the destruction of the information of the Amyr?” I hesitated, letting the tension build. “Who else but the Amyr themselves?”

Lorren's acquisitions office investigates rumors across the four corners.

• The acquisitions office, for example, was tiny and perpetually dark. Through the window I could see that one entire wall of the office was nothing but a huge map with cities and roads marked in such detail that it looked like a snarled loom. The map was covered in a layer of clear alchemical lacquer, and there were notes written at various points in red grease pencil, detailing rumors of desirable books and the last known positions of the various acquisition teams.

Kvothe says that he is in Trebon to investigate rumors, falsely claiming to be an official acquisitor.

• “The masters down at the University heard some odd rumors and sent me here to find out if they were true,” I said. There was no awkwardness or hesitation in the lie.
• But when we hear strange rumors, someone needs to go out and find out what’s really happened.

Viari is an acquisitor.

• He works in acquisitions. They bring back books from all over the world. They’re a different breed entirely.

Viari has scars on his hands and arms like a Ciridae.

• highlighting a few pale scars that ran over his knuckles and up his arms.
• “You look like an Amyr,” she said. “Kvothe is one of the Ciridae.”..... I had dried blood running down the back of my hands

Viari specifically carries a long knife and a sword, the exact weapons described as used at the Mauthen farm massacre.

• I saw he wore a long knife in addition to his sword. I’d never seen anyone armed at the University.
• “They weren’t really torn apart,” Denna said. “From what I heard in town, it was a lot of knife and sword work.”

Viari knows how to get past the Ruh defenses just like Kvothe does to Alleg.

• He stepped forward and held out his hand to me. “One family.”
• The change in Alleg’s attitude was immediate. He relaxed and sheathed his sword. The others followed suit as he smiled and approached me, laughing. I laughed too. “One family.”

I think Viari left Arliden belly cut and hamstrung to die slowly just like Kvothe does to Alleg.

• My father, his belly cut open, had left a trail of blood for twenty feet. He’d crawled to be closer to her.
• I was plagued with thoughts of Alleg, wondering if he was still alive. I knew from my time in the Medica that the gut wound I’d given him was fatal. I also knew it was a slow death...... He couldn’t walk on his hamstrung leg, either. So if he wanted to move he’d have to crawl.

The Chandrian arrive and Viari leaves, perhaps finished silencing the troupe, perhaps scared away, perhaps to get reinforcements. Haliax needs Arliden's song, so Cinder picks up dead Laurian by her arms and violently shakes her, psychologically torturing Arliden for information.

• My mother, her hair wet with blood, her arms unnaturally twisted, broken at the wrist, the elbow.
• Did things to your mother, you know. Terrible. She held up well though.

Arliden begs Cinder to stop and gives up the pieces of his song about Lanre to Cinder, who gets Denna's help finishing and performing it.

• Much better than your father, with all his begging and blubbering.
• “I had to piece it together out of a hundred little scraps.” She made a conciliatory gesture. “Me and my patron, I should say. He’s helped.”

The Chandrian catch a brace of coneys and begin to cook them and some potatoes when Kvothe arrives and assumes their guilt based on the circumstances.

• Back by the fire, a bald man with a grey beard chuckled. “Looks like we missed a little rabbit. Careful Cinder, his teeth may be sharp.”
• I focused on the kettle. Something normal. I used a stick to poke at the contents and saw that they were finished cooking. Normal.

The Chandrian do something to Kvothe so that when he sleeps some of his trauma is healed.

• This one has done nothing. Send him to the soft and painless blanket of his sleep.
• First is the door of sleep. Sleep offers us a retreat from the world and all its pain..... Second is the door of forgetting.
• While my mind slept, many of the painful parts of the previous day were ushered through the second door.

The Chandrian are scared off by the return of the Amyr in greater numbers, or the arrival of singers or sithe.

• “Who keeps you safe from the Amyr? The singers? The Sithe? From all that would harm you in the world?”
• “They come,” Haliax said quietly.

Let's talk about symbols of justice and of authority to judge. In Notw we see the Tehlin Justice confront Skarpi, and as stated in the title of the post, his symbol of authority to judge is shown through the silver scales.

If you read up on the scales of justice you'll likely be greeted with information about Rome, Justitia, Lady Justice etc. But the scales representing justice goes all the way back to Ma'at and ancient Egypt.

However, if you lurk around Rome and its symbols of justice you'll find some more neat stuff. Because sure, the Justice in Notw had silver scales as a symbol of his authority to judge. But the one who arrested Kvothe in Imre had something else.

The man holding the parchment eyed Simmon calmly, then reached inside his cloak and brought out a stout iron rod with a band of gold around each end. Sim paled a bit as the grim man held it up for everyone in the room to see. Not only was it every bit as threatening as the constable’s cudgels, the rod was an unmistakable symbol of his authority. The man was a sumner for the Commonwealth courts. Not just a regular sumner either, the gold bands meant he could order anyone to stand before the iron law: priests, government officials, even members of the nobility up to the rank of baron.

Now I'm gonna sidestep to Ferula, because there's dozens of posts about it, and for good reason. If you look it up as a genus, you'll find two connections to silphium

Ferula drudeana, hypothesized to be the ancient Silphion

Ferula tingitana, hypothesized to be the ancient Silphion

which is a cool connect, but I think the theories I see most often about it have tied Ferula to Ferule, and tied that to iron. Which I most agree with, but want to expand on it a bit.

Because a Ferule is a rod for punishing. Think of... spanking a child with a willow switch.

An instrument, such as a cane, stick, or flat piece of wood, used in punishing children.

Reminds you a bit of Vashet, no? thwiiiip. Which brings us back to Ferula. Because when you use the 'rod' definition, not iron, Ferula and Ferule mean the same thing.

Ferula (from Latin ferula 'rod') is a genus of about 220 species of flowering plants..

So how does this fennel folklore plant that's also somehow a punishing rod become... iron? It still feels like a leap.

But like I said. This post is about symbols of justice and of authority to judge, and we're still in Rome.

The Romans called the hollow light rod made from this plant a ferula (compare also fasces, judicial birches). Such rods were used for walking sticks, splints, for stirring boiling liquids, and for corporal punishment.

The connection is through fasces. That was the Roman symbol of authority to judge, a bundle of rods (Ferula) all bound together.

A fasces, from the Latin word fascis, meaning 'bundle'; is a bound bundle of wooden rods, often but not always including an axe (occasionally two axes) with its blade emerging... was passed on to ancient Rome, where it symbolized a Roman king's power to punish his subjects, and later, a magistrate's power and jurisdiction.

I think that's why the sumner's iron rod has two bands on either side. Because it represents a fasces, it's a bound rod meant to represent authority to judge.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ec/Eagle_with_fasces.svg

historically it seems it was used often on coinage, which ties in nicely with the Maer's lesson on granted authority in the form of taxes. It's even on US currency.

The image of fasces has survived in the modern world as a representation of magisterial power, law, and governance. The fasces frequently occurs as a charge in heraldry: it is present on the reverse of the U.S. Mercury dime coin and behind the podium in the United States House of Representatives and in the Seal of the U.S. Senate; and it was the origin of the name of the National Fascist Party in Italy (from which the term fascism is derived).

So with that in mind, look back at some of those key moments in the books. Is Haliax punishing Cinder, or is he judging him?

The soft voice went as hard as a rod of Ramston steel. “Ferula.”

“Who knows the inner turnings of your name, Cinder?” The words were spoken with a slow patience, like a schoolmaster reciting a forgotten lesson.

... or is Haliax a fascist? A tyrant?

So much depends upon where you stop a story, and hers ended when Lanre was cursed by Selitos. It was the perfect ending for a tragedy. In her story Lanre was wronged, misunderstood. Selitos was a tyrant, an insane monster who tore out his own eye in fury at Lanre’s clever trickery.

and for some extra food for thought I'll wrap this with a picture of Lady Justice, and King Feyda.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2c/HK_Central_Statue_Square_Legislative_Council_Building_n_Themis_s.jpg

https://www.shirepost.com/cdn/shop/products/PR-VIN-FEYDA-4.jpg?v=1608756248&width=1000

This was a gift for my brother, who’s a great fan of the series, a few Christmases back. What do you think?

Are chandrian actually angels? The description of Chandrian from Adem story is remarkably similar to the description of some of the angels from Trapis' and Skarpi's stories. The number doesn't check out but I'm thinking maybe they fought and some died or some stayed with the other side while most went with Haliax.

It could be either that:

• Lanre subverted some of the angels when they first went after him or
• Angels and chandrian were the same thing from the get go but stories got modified over the last 5000 years

Alright so first off im about 60% trough the second book (Kvothe basically just arrived at Ademre)

I like the books, they are fun, but it does not seem like the Author has any real idea whats going on for lack of better words. Secondly its been like 14 years since it came out...its not gonna be finished. Third of all is the big thing, Reading this book makes me feel like im reading book two or three of a Wheel of Time. It feels like im barely at the beginning of the story. It feels like we dont really have villains yet (Besides the 7 magic smurfs) and we have gotten like 0 on the Amyr.

I have zero idea how this would even be resolved in one book. It feels like the story hasnt even started. Almost through two books and the MC in a high fantasy story literally cannot fight and his magic consists of doing voodoo and stabbing dolls with pins like he some crazy forest witch

Also for being like 55% trough the story the in-world lore is very very shallow with no real concept of time and when shit happened in history in addition to there being very little world building. Like there are 4 main kingdoms and some small unnamed ones with weirdo monk like murder hobos who hate speaking in the north and even weirder hobos over the *insert generic big fantasy mountain range*

Alright so we have spent the whole story with Kvothe retelling his story in some generic unnamed village in god knows where. We have seen some generic unnamed villages in the commonwealth, we have spend a bit of time in Tarbean and like 90% of the time in the university and a smallish town. We have been to Severen which literally isnt even on the map, then spend walking trough a forest and now we have arrived with the weird murder kung-fu hobos who hate speaking

Nice books but even if the last one ever releases (which it wont) unless he extends the story by another like 9 books hes not gonna really be able to finish the story in a proper way

Re-reading after a few years, but am reading both books back to back. I'm finding the dialog in the second book quite annoying and different from Name of the Wind. The first book felt timeless whereas the second one feels contemporary American, especially or maybe only Kvothe's dialog ... the quips are kinda sitcommy, his emotions feel like those of not just an immature boy, which he is, but an immature American boy. It's the quality I hate most about Sanderson's writing and am dismayed that I'm seeing it in A Wise Man's Fear.

Anyone else?

Hey everyone,

two things: We started a new Podcast about the kingkiller chronicles and the first episode is out. I would love to have a little community here where we discuss the chapters together as well. So first: - do you have any theories, discussions or thoughts about the prologue and chapter 1&2? - did we miss anything in our epsiode?

And second: It would be nice if some of you have input for our next episode. If you like we will mention you in the podcast as well :) So what are your thoughts and theories about Chapter 3-7. I would love to here from you guys :)

Make sure to follow the Lethani, Beyond The Wind

A Man who is waiting to DIE | The Name of the Wind Podcast | Prologue, Chapter 1&2 | Beyond the Wind https://youtu.be/w23_W57LtPk

Haliax doesn’t use Cinder’s name - Ferula - this is Haliax using Iron to bind Cinder. Like Devon binding Bast with his ring of iron.

I have just finished the third re-read of the books. So, of course, spoilers. The first one I did when I was in my late teens. Second in a summer between my university years. Third, just now, when I'm pushing thirty, when I'm reading this to my girlfriend. Aside of the self-flagellation of knowing that I am reading something that I likely will never see the end of, I still really enjoyed it. Prose really does stand out, it is very, very good. Some things did not age so well. But, I just wanted to share my observations. You are welcome to post some theories which have been written and created over the years, if I touched upon something interesting. I would love to read those. Anyway, here it comes:

- Kvothe is a dick. And not particularly wise. This was obvious, but it stood out more and more clearly every time I read those books.

- First book is a lot stronger than the second.

- Felurian chapters feel like a basement-dwelling stream of consciousness. They're not overly smutty I suppose, but just enough to leave a bit of a bitter after taste in my mouth, and the lingering question 'really?' Much has been discussed about these chapters already, I know, but I do wonder if it could have been done in a way that did not feel like a nerdy-boy fantasy. I suppose though it does make Cthaeh's comments about how Kvothe is running around chasing faerussy strike a little harder, when he tells Kvothe that Denna was beaten.

- Waystone Inn is not a real place, and the people are not real. I am borderline convinced of this. I wish I could see some written up theories; I have seen a few, but nothing that would encapsulate my somewhat scattered thoughts. Anyway: names in the frame narrative are reminiscent of characters Kvothe met, if not overtly (e.g. Leodin, Marten etc). Also, the references to copper, the name Newarre, the odd feeling about the place etc. etc. One theory I read a few months back here on reddit that resonated with me was that Newarre was a metaphor of a person who rescinded from the real world due to trauma and depression. And I thought it was neat.

- This is relating to the last bit, but it is the most overreaching of the theories: I think there may be a grain of truth to the leaks from alpha readers, and the supposed 'bad' draft of Door of Stones, which goes back 10 years or so. Supposedly, there was a twist that much of what we saw did not really happen, a kind of dream-trope. Part of me, even though I do think it's not a great twist, believes it, because I do think there is some things pointing to it in the story. But I don't know, it's just a nagging feeling. There is some information about it on the internet, but it does seem disjointed and sometimes contradictory as well, and so I am reluctant to trust those.

- Fae or fae magic is at play in the Frame Narrative, and Bast is not a friendly student to Kvothe. Or perhaps not just a friendly student. This has to do with Felurian making Kvothe promise he is to return. There was emphasis on this. Bast is there, in some capacity, to get that debt. Not to say he doesn't like or respect or look up to his Reshi. But that promise is crucial. And something nags at me thinking Kvothe is playing Bast.

- Relating to my previous thought - I do think Bast is real, and I suspect the Chronicler is as well. I think they have somehow been sent to Kvothe's created world to get him out. Again, this is just a feeling I have.

Anyway, I just wanted to share my thoughts, my ideas. Books are still very good, though it's nice to see they are not perfect in a way. When I was younger I looked up to them so much, I was so enamoured with the world, the words, the characters, and that was nice. But in a way it's quite refreshing to see the cracks too. It's been an enjoyable read.

Hello everyone! I just started a podcast about the kingkiller chronicles. If you would like to reread with us or discuss some theories, this might just be for you. Hope to see one or two of you there :)

A Man who is waiting to DIE | The Name of the Wind Podcast | Prologue, Chapter 1&2 | Beyond the Wind https://youtu.be/w23_W57LtPk

Curious where folks stand on this.

Let’s say Rothfuss never finishes the book, but somehow you’re given access to a comprehensive summary—something like SparkNotes or detailed cliff notes that lays out all the major plot points, character arcs, secrets revealed, and how it all ends. No prose, no dialogue, just the facts.

Would you read it? Or would you rather never know, holding out for the real thing—however unlikely?

It hurts

I am officially all caught up and starting my relisten to the whole series immediately after finishing it all. After reading TNRBD (which I thoroughly enjoyed the short stories), and after lurking in the theory sub reddit I had a question and possible theory. Of course I'll probably pick up so much more from my second go through, but a common theory I've seen and that is mentioned in the books is how Kote is no longer Kvothe. Or he is changing into Kote. It can be attributed to him not playing music, no adventure, too much loss, or him actually changing his name or locking part of his name away in the chest. There are theories about how he is now unable to unlock the chest to not being Kvothe anymore, or him using his mind split to hide away the way to open the chest or spring a trap on the chandrian. Regardless, it's clear Kote is going through a issue. After reading TNRBD we see more examples of fey "magic", and there is a discussion how Fulurian uses both forms to enhance herself, like "cream on top of icing on a cake" and then we see Bast using his authority over a boy from his pact to change him and use both forms of "magic" on him, after Bast makes another comment about "cream on top of icing on a cake". What I'm wondering is if Kotes change is so far gone it's impossible for him to get himself back , and that's when Bast steps in and uses both "magics" to make Kote into the "best possible version" of himself aka return to Kavote. I wonder also, if the fey magic is able to change and enhance, if it's possible to do the opposite as well. And if that's the case, what if Kavote has a sort of fey curse on him that has him in his current predicament. Obviously this is all theory and I'm definitely not as read up as you all, but it was a very interesting thought I had. Also in the slow regard of silent things, we get more of a glimpse into Ari. Could Kavote be as he is because he is not in his proper place? Is what he is going through similar to whatever Ari has gone through, because we know she is not as she once was as well. Just some thoughts. Please feel free to tell me what you think. I have no need to fear spoilers anymore.

Hi all,

Im on my nth reread and just read the malfeasance passage on WMF.

I always thought it was Ambrose, it fits too well. However two things make me doubt it this time arround: (1) Kvothe is way too sure its him and (2) it happened right after they explained sympathy to Denna. It’s too convenient that after they spill the beans he gets attacked.

What are your thoughts on this?

The two King Killer books are some of my favorite reads of all time, and I hold the series very close to my heart. Having just finished the two books for the fourth (maybe fifth?) time, I have some comments that I figured I'd share:

First, I realized there's a bit of a hole regarding the magic system of the King Killer world. It's small, but has been bothering me. There are multiple instances, especially in the second book, where "kinetic bindings" are made between two objects so they can be used as simple signaling devices. Specifically, when Kvothe is trying to break into Ambrose's room (both times) and while he is hunting bandits in the Eld. If these sticks were tied together sympathetically, then wouldn't all of the motion of one stick be repeated by the other? I.e., if one person is just walking around with the stick in his pocket, wouldn't the other stick just be repeating the motion, floating in midair somewhere? If anyone could give me a good explanation to close this hole, I would greatly appreciate it.

The second thing I realized in my readthrough is a bit deeper. So far, the first two books read like a memoir of Kvothe's life. I'm not bashing the story in any way (as I obviously love them), but besides the Chandrian, there is no central conflict the story seems to be working towards. That is, unless all of the random and various parts of his life come together in a masterful climax. This is, perhaps, the reason Doors of Stone has taken so much longer than we all anticipated. Rothfuss has to tie up so many loose ends: Denna, Ambrose, the Cthaeh, the Amir, the Chandrian, and the big war going on in the present, just to name a few. There is so much that needs to be resolved if the series is to have the ending it deserves and not fall apart into a collection of small, single, and almost random stories of Kvothe's life. Again, I love this series so much and am not trying to diminish it but simply offer a possible explanation for why DOS has taken so long.

The two books of the King Killler Chronicle are some of my favorite stories of all time, and the pain of waiting for the third book is almost unbearable. In the meantime, let me know what you think of my observations, and please share your own. Thanks!

Im rereading but I haven't read these two yet

Although it’s quite impossible to know for sure, I still like to think about it.

-Kvothe: Whose rooms are these!? Why are you burning your robes? Elodin: I also would have accepted: why don't you have keys to this room? Why was the door locked? Of course, the absolute best was when master Elodin threw -Kvothe off a building!

If kingkiller ever continues, would you want it to end when kote catches up in his biography or will bast and the chronicler be able to convince him to become kvothe again? If it’s the latter, how many more books do you think it will take

Oh sure, go ahead! Just be prepared for heartbreak, existential dread, and the slow realization that you might never know how it ends. It’s like adopting a pet dragon - magical, life-changing, and also… it might just disappear one day and never come back. But yeah, totally, start reading! We’ll be here, waiting. Forever. 🥲