r/MilitaryHistory 23h ago

ID Request šŸ” New post flair for ID Requests has been added

2 Upvotes

Use this flair to increase visibility on identification posts


r/MilitaryHistory 8h ago

Terrible condition of the elite Panzergrenadier-Division Grossdeutschland at the end of 1943: "Almost all the men are so apathetic that it is all the same to them whether they are shot dead by their own officers or by the Russians..."

19 Upvotes

Below is a translation of one of the most illuminating reports about the debilitated state of the GermanĀ units on the Eastern Front at the end of 1943.

The report comes fromĀ OberstĀ Oldwig von Natzmer, a general staff officer from the Panzergrenadier-Division Grossdeutschland, dated 1 December 1943. It was submitted toĀ OberstĀ Hellmuth Laegeler, Chief of the General Staff of theĀ LVII. Panzerkorps, to which the division was subordinated at the time.

Since the start of Operation Citadel at Kursk in July 1943, Grossdeutschland was engaged in a non-stop combat for the next five months, acting as a fire brigade. By the end of 1943, the division was badly depleted, with its "combat value" (Kampfwert) being low. It was rated as havingĀ Kampfwert IV, meaning that it was fit for limited defense only. From July to November 1943, it sustained over 11,000 total casualties.

This document can be found in the German primary sources: Anlagen fĆ¼r Monat Dezember 1943 zum Kriegstagebuch Nr. 12. Pz.A.O.K. 1, Ia., 1.12.43-31.12.43. NARA T313, Roll 64. This is the first page from the doc.

After inspecting the main battle line (Hauptkampflinie) of the division and checking the condition of its units early in the morning, Natzmer submitted the following later that day:

Dear Laegeler!
Ā Ā 
I used today, with its dense fog, to take a closer look at the present main battle line and to talk to the regimental commanders, battalion leaders and the NCOs leading the companies. Based on this knowledge, here is a brief description:

1.) The current main battle line is even more unfavorable in its right section than it appears from the map; it can be seen from afar from all sides in almost the entire section of the FĆ¼silier Regiment and this is also the reason for the extraordinarily high losses due to enemy fire. The enemy himself has installed his numerous anti-tank guns so excellently that they generally cannot even be detected and fought by our tanks. A transfer of the main battle line to the prepared line on both sides of Vysoky would therefore be particularly desirable.

[ā€¦]
Ā Ā 
3.) The following must be said of our own troops:

Such a degree of exhaustion, which can no longer be surpassed, has now occurred in all parts, right up to the regimental staffs. As far as I know, we are probably the only division that has been deployed at the focal points [Schwerpunkten] since the beginning of July (start of Citadel) without a day's break and has been in combat almost every day. The result of this incessant fighting is that most of the officers and almost all of the NCOs have become casualties and there is no longer a core of old people. The few officers still at the front are the only ones still able to cope with the situation there, but they are no longer supported by NCOs because there are none left. Almost all the men are so apathetic that it is all the same to them whether they are shot dead by their own officers or by the Russians. All it takes is for the Russian to get up from his trenches and shout "Hurrah" to make everyone in our holes get up and go back. This is the moment when even the most capable officer can no longer have any influence on the troops. The retreating men no longer respond to threats with weapons. Any art of persuasion or appealing to their honor is equally unsuccessful. It must be remembered that the men in these battalions are the best there are in the German Army, because they represent a carefully selected replacements from the entire Reich. The recruits, the majority of which unfortunately have already been lost, naturally look first and foremost at the older people and go back just like them when they see the bad example. I have had details described to me on the spot that I will spare you, but which are really sad enough. The fact that we still manage to hold our positions and iron out minor mishaps is either because an officer sometimes manages to assert himself completely, or because the regimental commander's carefully guarded shock group of 16 men is thrown to the scene of the fire and takes the retreating men forward again.

It's a picture that couldn't be more unpleasant to think of, and men are expected to do a lot more than any human being can normally achieve physically and mentally. The limits of performance are far exceeded here. It is completely unclear to me how our current positions, or even other positions, are to be held in the face of the expected further attacks. We have to hope that things will still be just about the same as before and that the situation can still be restored by deploying tanks, assault guns and artillery. But I don't think this game can go on much longer. Now, to put it in a nutshell, the battle is only being fought by the artillery, tanks and assault guns, and these are there to prevent all the infantrymen deployed from running away at the same time. If the use of these heavy weapons means that some of them remain standing, it is to be hoped that the situation can be restored at the difficult point.

4.) Measures against this complete physical and moral deterioration are difficult to find. Any spiritual vitamin injections are futile; but other measures, such as summary court-martial, death sentence, immediate use of weapons by officers and so on, are no longer effective. It also means nothing to the man in a group when he is told that Gefreite X has been shot for cowardice, because he doesn't know Gefreite X at all because everything is completely mixed up. What's more, Gefreite X is missing the next day in the hole where he might have been put back.
Ā Ā 
5.) The actual trench strengths [GrabenstƤrken], i.e. the number of people actually deployed in the trench, are so low that the deployed man can usually not see his neighbor from his hole. Due to the constant losses, this situation is getting worse every hour and every day. The battalions, made up of many units, are almost impossible to lead. Of one of our strongest battalions, the I./Grenadier Regiment, the following were deployed in the trench this morning: 4 NCOs and 17 men from various branches of the armed forces (from the alarm units of the supply leader, the artillery and so on), 2 NCOs and 18 men from the reconnaissance battalion, the division's engineer battalion with 2 NCOs and 22 men. The whole bunch is called I./Grenadier Regiment G.D. and has to hold a position of 2.3 km with its 8 NCOs and 57 men. Comment unnecessary.
Ā Ā 
I am writing this to you to show you once again, after fresh experience, the enormous difficulties under which we are fighting here, and I know that you are aware of these difficulties, as are all the other gentlemen [from the staff of the LVII. Panzerkorps]. You can rest assured that we will continue to do everything we can to hold our positions. And whatever is humanly possible will be done. As far as we have succeeded so far, things will continue to go well. And if you continue to help us by supplying a few NCOs and men, we will somehow hold out until another major solution is needed.

Ā 


r/MilitaryHistory 5h ago

ID Request šŸ” Found this sketch thrifting, potentially done by a serviceman in the Philippines.

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6 Upvotes

Hey everyone, I found this old sketch framed at a Habitat for Humanity. It is live ink, so not a print, and dated 1945. Other subs have speculated that ā€œLassamā€ could be Lasam, Philippines, and hotel could be used ironically/mockingly for a military rest station during the campaign. Nothing has come up for Knight on lens, but I guess Iā€™m just hoping to find out a little more. Whether it be about the artist, or where this couldā€™ve been sketched. Iā€™m half Filipino, so this makes it even more interesting for me. Thank you for any and all help!


r/MilitaryHistory 10h ago

Discussion If you had to fight in any war in history what would it be?

13 Upvotes

I asked my dad the same question he said desert storm which realistically is probably the best answer.


r/MilitaryHistory 1h ago

ID'ing medals from WW2 Polish 1st Independent Parachute Brigade

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ā€¢ Upvotes

I'm digging into the history of my grandfather (Feliks) who fought in Operation Market Garden. He moved to Canada and passed away in 2003.

I've been told he was awarded some of the depicted medals in Holland.

I've identified the medals with letters (A, B, C, D) as the (A) 1939-1945 Star, (B) Defence Medal, (C) War Medal 1939-1945, and (D) France and Germany Star.

I am most interested in identifying (1), which seems like the Polish Cross of Merit, but I cannot find this version with half white and half red.

Any help is appreciated.


r/MilitaryHistory 3h ago

ID Request šŸ” Does anyone regocnize the uniform, medals, rank, anything?

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2 Upvotes

Anything anyone can tell me. I think Belgian army WW1, but I'm not sure at all.


r/MilitaryHistory 8h ago

identify uniform of my great grandfather, american of course.

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4 Upvotes

r/MilitaryHistory 10h ago

ID Request šŸ” Need help with some shoulder boards

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5 Upvotes

I don't know if this is the right place but I'll ask anyway. I got some old stuff and haven't been able to identify these shoulder boards since I first got them. Would appreciate hints to what they could be or directly what they are.


r/MilitaryHistory 11h ago

OFFICIAL WANTED NOTICE of my grandfather during the french-algerian war

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5 Upvotes

r/MilitaryHistory 19h ago

ID Request šŸ” Does anyone know what some of these patches are on my grandpa's vietnam uniform? He was shot and injured in Vietnam and he may have served after 1980 possibly? (sorry for bad pictures)

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10 Upvotes

r/MilitaryHistory 21h ago

ID Request šŸ” American military sunglasses help

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5 Upvotes

Hello, I am looking for some help on a few sunglasses in my collection. Iā€™m located in the US and presume these are military issued. First pair is only marked GF under brow bar. Bends on top of frames seem perfectly executed to the point Iā€™m wondering if it was by design.

Second pair has no markings I could find.

Thanks for any help!


r/MilitaryHistory 8h ago

Discussion Did the purges of the soviet union in WW2 help get rid of backwards military thinkers and overall help the red army?

0 Upvotes

I've heard before that Stalin's purges didn't hurt the war effort because the red army had gone such massive expansion that the amount of purged officers was a drop in the ocean compared to this, and if anything it got rid of the old civil war veterans and replaced them with fresh and young thinkers so this helped the war.

Personally, I find this hard to believe: experienced officers and trainers are indispensable in training the next generation and purging this many will have a disastrous affect on army expansion, not to mention that good leaders are effectiveness multipliers. The American army expanded from a token force to numbers quite comparable to the USSR, and they had a shortage of officers but never the innefectiveness in leadership the USSR had in the early eastern front. Still, modern historiography seems to be shifting in this opinion, so I'm open to arguments as to why this is or isn't the case.


r/MilitaryHistory 1d ago

Prussian/German soldiers during the Franco Prussian War? Any insight is appreciated.

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6 Upvotes

I don't know much about this photo. This was in possession of my german grandmother (b. 1922) who likely inherited it from an older relative. Google translates the message on the back as "G. Keller (called RĆ¼delf), Corporal of the 3rd Gun of the 2nd Cavalry Guards Field Artillery - Regiment. King William of Prussia, 3rd Regiment. During his time at the Battle of Paris, he sends this portrait (taken on Christmas Day, but before Paris) with warm greetings to his homeland, the unforgettable one. Opposite from GƤƟbergstrasse. Act 1, Scene 2. Rudolf: And every man in the German army thinks longingly of his loved ones at home. Georg: And in the homeland they think of us. (??


r/MilitaryHistory 1d ago

ID Request šŸ” Uniform ID

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7 Upvotes

Looking for help identifying this uniform form an old family photograph from New England family. Thanks in advance.


r/MilitaryHistory 21h ago

Reading list D Day to end of WWII

2 Upvotes

Hello,
Can anyone suggest a reading list for World War II from June 6th, 1944, to the end of the war? I'm not interested in anything by Ambrose though. I find he's too much of a hero worshipper.

Thanks!


r/MilitaryHistory 1d ago

ID Request šŸ” Can someone help me identify the national military in this video?

Enable HLS to view with audio, or disable this notification

9 Upvotes

South Africa president in an arms deal meeting -- I can't identify the uniforms (in green) -- can someone help?


r/MilitaryHistory 1d ago

Is it possible to find out any info on my uncle?

4 Upvotes

He enlisted in the Navy when he was 16, he lied about his age. We were just wondering where he went and what he did. DOB 10/07/1926, Leon Thomas Dragon


r/MilitaryHistory 2d ago

WWII Why were the Japanese carriers so surprisingly vulnerable to U.S. submarines?

38 Upvotes

Watched some videos describing sinking of Japanese carriers in WWII. Iā€™m familiar with how this happened in the Battle of Midway where they were overwhelmed by superior numbers of aircraft from the American carriers.
But in these videos the carriers and supercarriers were sunk by just a single sub or two subs. That surprised me. Usually in submarine warfare they are successful against unprotected single vessels. But carriers because of their value are always surrounded by a phalanx of destroyers and cruisers specifically tasked with detecting and destroying them.

So what went wrong here?

1 US Sub Sinks a Japanese Supercarrier - Sinking of Shinano Documentary.
https://youtu.be/9Lgc_NtwApQ?si=mBanBSuKcpiZ5Iz-

US Subs sink 2 Carriers in 1 Day - Sinking of Shokaku and Taiho.
https://youtu.be/JS2p1eUeuAs?si=H7MFpw2F3pKEI2O2


r/MilitaryHistory 2d ago

WWII How would soviet soldier hold their weapon while sprinting?

5 Upvotes

I have a question regarding the way that soviet would carry their weapon while sprinting, would they carry it in their left or right hand? Whats the way that they would hold it? Is it said anywhere mentioned, like RKKA manuals?


r/MilitaryHistory 2d ago

WWII Ivan Trufanov: A Forgotten Soldierā€™s Long-Awaited Recognition

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4 Upvotes

Ivan Ivanovich Trufanov enlisted in the Soviet Army at 17, and by 18, he lost his leg while fighting in WWII. Despite his injury and sacrifice, he was never recognized for his serviceā€”until 30 years later. At age 50, Trufanov was awarded the Order of the Patriotic War, 2nd Class, for his contributions during the war.

Born in 1925 in Archunovo, Vologda Oblast, Trufanov served as an infantryman in the 986th Infantry Regiment, 223rd Infantry Division. His battle experience included the horrific events of September 5, 1943, when he was severely wounded by an artillery shell. The injury led to the amputation of his left leg, but it took years for him to receive formal recognition.

For decades, Trufanov lived with the weight of a war injury that earned him little recognition. After his discharge, he worked as a guard at the Lomonosov District Military Commissariat in Arkhangelsk. Despite facing adversity, Trufanov remained steadfast in his duties, but the long delay in receiving his well-deserved award is a stark reminder of the many soldiers whose sacrifices went unacknowledged for far too long.

Trufanovā€™s story is one of patience and persistence. His case is a tragic example of the bureaucratic hurdles many veterans faced in post-war Soviet society. He eventually received the Order of the Patriotic War, 2nd Class in 1975, but it was recognition that came much too late.

This is a reminder that, for many veterans, the fight didnā€™t end with the war. The process of being recognized for their sacrifices was often as long and difficult as the battle itself.


r/MilitaryHistory 3d ago

Need help with dog tags

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8 Upvotes

I donā€™t know anything about military stuff whatsoever, but I bought a jar of jewelry from a shop and there were dog tags inside. I have no clue how to go about locating the owner of the tags, but I would love to get them back to his family if possible.

I covered the SSN in the picture, because I wasnā€™t sure if I should be putting that on the internet. I found these in a shop in Central Texas if that helps to narrow it down.


r/MilitaryHistory 3d ago

ID Request šŸ” Need help identifying unit.

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5 Upvotes

Does anyone recognize the patch on this guys shoulder. Picture was taken of an American officer on Canton Island in September 45.


r/MilitaryHistory 4d ago

Help identifying

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14 Upvotes

This is my Paternal Great Great Grandfather. He was a Polish legionnaire during WWI under Piłsudski. I believe this photo is from after WWI. Is this the polish military uniform during the Polish Soviet War? According to family members who new him he never talked about the war but I always theorized he served in the Polish Soviet War as well. He was born in 1900 so he wouldve enlisted towards the end of ww1 anyway. I also canā€™t identify the medal and pin on his right and left breast respectively. Thank you!


r/MilitaryHistory 3d ago

How should i clean this helmet? Yeah, itā€™s me againā€¦

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1 Upvotes

I donā€™t know if thatā€™s the right place to ask but, this is an old helmet, dusty and all, and the pads (i think thatā€™s how you call it) inside donā€™t come off so i would like to know how iā€™m supposed to clean it since iā€™ve never done that before and i donā€™t want to damage it.

Thereā€™s a lot of dust and a bit of dirt? Inside it (I donā€™t know if thatā€™s how we say it but in french itā€™s saletĆ©s).

I hope someone can help, thanks!


r/MilitaryHistory 4d ago

From which war is this helmet ?

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24 Upvotes

So iā€™m new on reddit, i donā€™t know how it works and all but i thought i could maybe find some help here. I bought this helmet at The Supply Sergeant in LA and i would like to know from which war it is from. I think itā€™s the original since it is pretty old, dusty and all. I hope someone can help me, i donā€™t know much about wars and history since itā€™s only been a few months since i started being interested in ww2 & ww1.


r/MilitaryHistory 4d ago

British naval fleet under Lord Nelson defeats a combined Danish-Norwegian fleet at the Battle of Copenhagen in 1801, over the fears that Denmark could ally with France, during the Napoleonic Wars.

6 Upvotes

Nelsonā€™s victory led to his title as Viscount Nelson of the Nile, but tensions persisted, resulting in a second British attack on Copenhagen in 1807, further straining Danish-British relations.