Base game will always be too easy for veterans, the same was with world and rise base game. It wasn't until we got the title updates that vets started to have a challenge.
I really don't like this arguement everyone is making, even if world base is easy doesn't mean it being even easier isn't a bad thing, everyones acting black and white. It sounds like most of the reviews are stating it's far easier then ever before, which is a problem considering how easy it already was
If you want a challenge limit yourself. Go in with no armour, no upgraded weapons or skills.
Some people fucking eat fatalis and alatreon for breakfast and can beat them in their sleep, should we adjust baseline difficulty for them all of a sudden because they suddenly complained something was too easy?
but to me the fun of monster hunter is in being rewarded with gear and crafting from their parts, i found world difficulty decent enough (while i prefer harder, i'm not at the skill level where I did it mindlessly). Rise difficulty to me felt lower even with all of sunbreak due to the mobility fixing too many problems, so to me even if world is "easy", I did not like the decreased difficulty of Rise.
Knowing that this game is being cited as even easier then Rise, assuming if true, sounds like a negative to me even if world itself is deemed easy by fans.
but to me the fun of monster hunter is in being rewarded with gear and crafting from their parts
What does this have to do with difficulty?
Dude people were complaining about generations ultimate being too easy. It's always the same cycle, new game comes out, people say it's too easy, then a title update drops a monster that people say is too hard, rinse and repeat. It happened with behemoth and AT elders, it happened with fatalis and alatreon, it's gonna happen again here.
you told me to not craft armor and skills, I'm saying that's the part I enjoy.
I know what you're saying is true, but that's completely irrelevant. I KNOW world was deemed too easy. I KNOW Rise was deemed too easy. My point is that rise was EASIER then world by a decent margin in my opinion, and if this is EASIER then rise then to me that's a negative, even if all 3 are considered easy.
Easy or hard is not black and white. Just because one thing is easy doesn't mean another can't be EASIER.
I get what your saying, I'm just coming from a position where I've seen this discourse before. As far back as GU people complained about it being easier than MH4U, at this point the cycle gonna repeat.
Rise was deemed too easy, then sun break came out and shat on everyone. Rinse and repeat.
You keep acting like there’s some irrationality to that thought process. Finding Rise to be too easy and Sunbreak to be challenging are not conflicting opinions. Sunbreak being a good challenge does not undo the fact that Rise was underwhelming in difficulty. People don’t want to go through dozens of hours of mindlessly easy content to get to the good stuff.
“Oh ho ho, you thought the game was too easy, but now this new content is kicking your ass.”
Yep, and it’s lovely. But I wanted the old content to kick my ass, too, and my overall experience suffered because it didn’t.
And it’s not a cycle, it’s a trend. Rise was easier than World, and Wilds is apparently even easier than Rise. It’s not a circle, it’s a downward slope.
Not irrationality, I just don't think people are seeing the bigger picture.
You have to understand that part of the "difficulty" in older titles was not due to actual challenging monsters but old school jank and shitty hitboxes. Artificial difficulty was a huge part of especially the first few titles.
With modern gen we get QoL additions that drastically change the experience as a whole, like being able to walk while using a potion, not having to exit quest if you forgot to eat, having infinite uses on the pickaxe, gathering points for specific resources actually being a thing, etc. All that was left for difficulty were the monsters, which depending on your own experience could mean either a challenge or not, since a fair amount are returning monsters.
I agree with you that there are definitely some additions that make hunts too easy, like focus mode, wounds, seikret recovery etc, but that also provides room for the Devs to make some kick ass fights that feel like a proper fair challenge. Like iceborne alatreon or AT velk, where the challenge is real and fair and not artificial (for the most part).
I mean, I completely agree. I’m not a MH elitist at all. Old games did have jank and artificial difficulty, and I’m a fan of basically all of the QoL changes that have happened in recent games. I also completely agree that making the mechanics more forgiving opens up the way for making way more badass and compelling enemies, because you have the tools to survive way crazier shit. I also don’t have a problem with the new stuff in Wilds.
But what I’m going off of isn’t the QoL stuff, it’s that reviewers all unanimously agree that Wilds is super easy, to the point where they didn’t feel the need to upgrade their gear to complete everything. Lots of them are casual players, and they still found it too easy. That’s very different from MH veterans saying that moving while healing ruins the difficulty.
I am confident that Wilds will eventually go crazy with its difficulty in the expansion. But I’m still upset that I have to wait so long and cough up extra cash to get to that point, and I don’t think that’s an unreasonable opinion.
I hear you, but just because it was easy in world/rise doesn’t mean it still should be. This is actually a tradition I’d love the series to break away from. As it is, LR/HR can feel like a lame stepping stone to MR.
But then you'd be screwing over new blood looking to get into the game. LR/HR has always been the training wheels for G-rank, because it allows newer players to get to grips with the game without being overtly punished for it.
It's like a soulsborne vet complaining about how newer games are easier. Your first MH game is always the hardest.
teaching new players how to play the game isn't screwing them over lol. and when you understand what the game is expecting of you and its clicks, its even more satisfying
see: Sekiro chained ogre and lady butterfly. the game taught you two crucial lessons using those enemies
what you said is completely disingenuous. monster hunter games are 100% getting easier and i know they are a mainstream game now but they can still not hang their longtime fans out to dry. the players that have been buying the games and kept the franchise alive for 20 years.
reviewers are saying the game is easier than rise. its not one or two, its almost every single reviewer. wake up, this game is piss easy and its a negative thing
I've had numerous friends try and give up the game due to the steep learning curve. This was in World. Difficulty can always be added post game or at late game - having too big of a roadblock in a game can seriously deter new players.
It's one reason Elden Ring is so much more popular than the previous souls games - it's MUCH more accessible , and you don't have nearly as many roadblocks, yet they still had very difficult enemies late game and post launch..
MH can do the same - keep the experience relatively simple during the initial story, then ramp it up at the endgame and post launch
if learning and getting better at the game deters them, then the game isn't for them? because making the game easier deters the people that have been buying and playing the games for 20 years.
elden ring had spirit summons for easy mode. MH can do the same without trivializing the game for people who want a challenge
Elden Ring is way easier even without spirit summons. I actually forgot they existed when making my comment.
If learning and getting better at the game feel like a chore, people won't give the series a shot. Games are meant to be fun, and more accessibility isn't a bad thing, as long as there are still more difficulty options for vets.
If the game being made a bit easier pushes away less fans than it brings in, that's a win for Capcom, too. MH world was shit on by the community at the time for being way to easy - yet it's the best selling game Capcom has ever made. They obviously followed those results.
elden ring had some really tough bosses if you didnt overlevel yourself, use the mickey mouse spells/weapon arts/ or summon. i agree it was overall easier but still had some fights i had to spend time on.
i know what capcom is focused on and i know that they know the vast majority of players just want easy content they can bulldoze through. but that bums me out, and its not what the franchise has been built on. ive been playing the games for 20 years now and i dont want them to kill it just to get a bunch of players that will drop it after 30 hours when the credits roll.
What’s wrong with games demanding you learn how they work before you can do well at them?
I swear difficulty discourse online is impossible. People praise the shit out of challenging games all the damn time, constantly talking about how “brave” the design is and how exciting and cathartic is when it clicks, but as soon as you suggest a game should be harder or that it may be easier than the games preceding it (such as the conversation around Wilds today) you get hit with “Don’t scare off the new players” “Don’t gatekeep” etc etc.
I truly believe difficulty is intrinsic to Monster Hunter (not that it’s got in spades until you master rank and some high rank stuff) and genres with boss fights like these as a whole.
Dragons Dogma 2 suffered from this. What should’ve been a really entertaining gameplay loop got incredibly stale because you outscaled the enemies so quick once you hit level 15-20 that the mechanics and depth no longer mattered and every fight felt the same, despite the spectacle.
Now, I’m not assuming this game will be piss easy to the point of boredom, especially towards the end of high rank and especially with whatever expansion we see. But I think I’m not alone in saying that actually being challenged by the monsters is a big part of the appeal and it’s a little disheartening to hear that the game is reducing it.
Sadly, that's exactly how it's going. It IS piss easy to the brink of boredom, even in the supposedly "hardest content" in the game. These monsters are falling over dead if you so much as sneeze near them. It's insane. Idk how Capcom thought this would get players into monster hunter. Cuz while it may get more noobs in the door with the dexterity of a potato, nobody is gonna stick around. Not even the hardcore audience. So they've effectively shot themselves in the foot by trying to be more inclusive. It's ridiculous and needs to be addressed.
Another example of making your game like other successful games and diluting the soul of it so you’re just left with something less unique and interesting.
The amount of cope on this sub was ridiculous prior to release but so far every monster has been a complete pushover. They attack less, miss all the time, less health, constantly stagger and constantly wound. It’s not a monster hunt it’s like clubbing baby seals.
What’s wrong with games demanding you learn how they work before you can do well at them?
That's what the game is doing. Every vet knows that G-rank is where the actual monster hunter experience starts. The lower ranks are training wheels to get accustomed to the mechanics before facing the real challenge. This has always been the case in all the previous titles, I don't see why it's any different here.
I swear difficulty discourse online is impossible. People praise the shit out of challenging games all the damn time, constantly talking about how “brave” the design is and how exciting and cathartic is when it clicks, but as soon as you suggest a game should be harder or that it may be easier than the games preceding it (such as the conversation around Wilds today) you get hit with “Don’t scare off the new players” “Don’t gatekeep” etc etc.
Difficulty discourse online is impossible because it's subjective. One thing I find easy could be unbearable for you, and vice versa. Some people first try a monster while others spend literal days doing so.
It's also why simply saying "make the game harder" is redundant because it ignores all the nuance that goes into balancing a game. It's more than just scaling or numbers.
I truly believe difficulty is intrinsic to Monster Hunter (not that it’s got in spades until you master rank and some high rank stuff) and genres with boss fights like these as a whole.
Sure no disagreements here.
But I think I’m not alone in saying that actually being challenged by the monsters is a big part of the appeal and it’s a little disheartening to hear that the game is reducing it.
But then I ask you what is a fight you would consider challenging? For me a challenging fight in world is fatalis, alatreon and AT velk. No other fight makes me lock in nearly as hard as those 3. Does that mean it's fair for me to ask the Devs to make the end game base game fights for wilds as hard and challenging as those 3? Or should challenging follow a baseline? How do you even determine what is and what isn't a challenge?
That’s all well and good but reviewers are saying that they are able to comfortably beat HR with LR gear. Now, you can argue about challenge with me all day but I think we can both probably agree that there needs to at least be enough challenge to implore you to grind for gear. On top of that, rare drops are guaranteed from certain missions, so they’ve even made grinding easier.
There comes a point where streamlining will sand the soul away. You don’t have to chase monsters, your seikret will do it. You don’t have to grind, your rare drops are guaranteed. You don’t have to learn monsters, you have too many tools and too much damage for them to keep up. You don’t need to even use those rare drops, all current base game combat sounds like it’s doable by average MH players in LR gear.
Like, that’s a problem. You might actually disagree with me on all this, that’s fine and we’ll have to call it.
Also, I don’t think G rank is where the only challenge in MH lies. I got bodied by some monsters in World HR and GU HR especially, I remember all the players (including reviewers) getting slapped about by Anjanath when World came out and yet have you read a single review from a veteran or a new player that had an experience like that? I haven’t.
What stops them from actually making the whole lore game AND some good challenging content after you're done with the story ?
I don't get that idea that newcomers need a game where everything is easy and that you need a year+ to have finally something that you don't do in one try.
Just a few things at the end that's it, stuff that you can enjoy or break your skull on as a new player.
What stops them from actually making the whole lore game AND some good challenging content after you're done with the story ?
Its probably what they're doing. I doubt many of the reviewers grinded the endgame unlockables very far. They probably played through the story, and maybe early endgame hunts and called it too easy there. I didn't look at all the reviews, but some definitely did that.
"Yep, I did essentially everything there is to do - I wouldn't dare review a Monster Hunter game (this is my fourth MH review, or fifth if you count Wild Hearts) without digging into the endgame, since that's where the meat of it is really meant to be. I didn't see the review you are referencing, and obviously to each their own when it comes to opinion and difficulty and all that, but I wouldn't describe my personal experience in the endgame as a "significant" ramp up. It certainly got a little tougher, but it flattened off again very quickly in my own experience."
That wording makes me think of Rise, and if so, people who only remember Iceborne are going to be throwing an absolute fit. I wonder how long they played before doing the review. "Doing everything there is to do" was relatively time consuming in most monster hunter games, even base World.
Im also curious what people mean when they think difficult content in MH. Like, if its "difficult because its 3 monsters in the same room randomly spanking you", its a very different type of difficulty from "I was fighting a Rajang one on one and triple carted to his dive bomb". I personally don't care much for the former, even though it is generally where MH is the hardest. So if that's what missing, kindda whatever.
From what they're saying, they've hunted every monster (Including Tempered and Raging)
Making sets is significantly easier (as you can now guarantee rare mats from quests, and repeat those quests multiple times)
They're also saying in that whole time, completing all the content, they carted like twice - Which for me is disappointing as having a Monster really screw me over (with some annoying mechanic or hard move) - then grinding a better set to beat them, is really something that made them memorable to me.
I never really cared for the arena quests of fighting a cluster of enemies at once getting bounced around either - I liked building that memory of a monster, by either hunting is so much because those rare drops weren't coming for a piece I wanted - Or by carting over and over.
> Making sets is significantly easier (as you can now guarantee rare mats from quests, and repeat those quests multiple times)
That's interesting, so they cranked that up to 11? Ever since World they've added more and more systems to not have to deal with RNG. Even in GU, a lot of the grind was having to get the deviants to max level, but the loot was guaranteed. World and Rise had very easy gem drops or systems to get them easier.
If they made that even easier, that's gonna be "interesting".
This is specifically for investigations, but yeah you get high level investigations and you can repeatedly do them for gems and other rare drops because they can end up in the quest rewards.
They are gonna give us event quests soon. Same as what they did with world. Tempered monsters etc. We've been through this with both world and rise. Idk how people don't see that.
Mainly because that's a bandaid to the problem of everything being way too fuckin easy, and doesn't actually solve anything. The challenge should be there if you want it. It cost us all 70 fuckin dollars for christ sake. And so far, monsters fall over if you look at them funny. It's pathetic.
What you call "easy", a new player might call "manageable".
As a new player, it took me a whole year of playing Rise and nothing else to get from low rank to beating Primordial Malzeno. I still haven't hunted Scorn Magnamalo because my HR is still too low.
People with hundreds of hours in the franchise are for some reason expecting low rank to have elder dragon level hunts.
how is that screwing over new players ? why are we assuming every new player looking to play the game is a complete noob at video games and needs the content to be easy
Yea. Also as someone who played with noobs in rise and in world. World having a difficulty spikes actually made my noob friends learn the game, while with rise we just chatted about nothing while playing through the game. At the end of rise friends were less prepared for end game than in world because they were never challenged to play better and learn mechanics,
Because it doesn't matter if you are a pro gamer or not, some games take time to click. You could have someone who has never touched a 3rd person action game in their life but plays only FPS's or RPGs try MH for the first time. Are they suddenly gonna be a pro because they play other video games?
These games have to have a skill floor low enough to let new players find comfort in, then you let the games intrinsic motivators push the player to improving and getting better.
Just because it's easy for you, doesn't mean it's easy for everyone else.
I don’t agree with your line of thinking. You said some games take time to click, that’s not a bad thing and making that go away removes the fun “I’ve learned it! It’s making sense!” Reward factor.
Also, if you make the game too easy then the whole “intrinsic motivators push the player to improving” thing falls apart because the skill ceiling is lowered to the point where they literally don’t need to lol
You said some games take time to click, that’s not a bad thing and making that go away removes the fun “I’ve learned it! It’s making sense!” Reward factor.
Never said it was a bad thing, just that it takes time for some people hence why entry level has to be considered when designing a game.
And once it clicks for you, it won't click again. That's how it's always been.
thing falls apart because the skill ceiling is lowered to the point where they literally don’t need to lol
Intrinsic motivators that aren't "do this or die" but more so "do this cause you enjoy doing so".
People forget that this discourse has always been around. You could go back and find posts on generations ultimate talking about how it's too easy compared to MH4U.
"lr/hr has always been training wheels" - thats only true about games that have grank already in them. before grank comes thats not how this works. games are supposed to have good difficulty even without grank
"your first mh is always the hardest" - no its not. i started with mhfu and i consider dos (as a whole) and some iceborne and sunbreak fights the hardest. some gen stuff too. people always say this and i think its incredibly reductive.
thats only true about games that have grank already in them. before grank comes thats not how this works. games are supposed to have good difficulty even without grank
What is considered difficult? A difficult fight for you is gonna be different to what I consider difficult.
no its not
I mean for most people it is. Just cause there's a few exceptions doesn't make it the rule.
And how is it reductive? It's a given fact that by playing more of these games you have more experience which in turn helps you when playing the newer/older titles. That's how it works with every game, when you play a game in the same genre or even same series you pick up and learn the rest much faster than someone going in as a newbie. That applies to difficulty too.
monsters not dying in like 5, maybe 10 mins (if u play suboptimally at least) for example. yeah this is a thing you can define in various ways. also not being able to tank many hits without feeling punished/threatened for it.
its a given fact that by playing more of these games u have more experience.
yea i agree with that BUT thats not the whole picture. even when a game is easy to beat for you you can still often tell if its easier than it "should" be if you pay attention. you can tell if the damage output the monsters are giving is too low, too high or just right, is it in line with previous games? do monsters die as fast as in other games when you play two games back to back with "same" skill level or do they die faster in the other one cuz the numbers are skewed in players direction? i started playing with mhfu and i still can tell that stuff like World's Fatalis is one of the hardest fights in the series cuz the boss moveset is dangerous and its damage output, HP and time limit requires a really skilled play while also being somewhat readable (and that readability clouds the judgment of old games cuz goofy hitboxes n shit make evaluating how hard the old games truly were bit more complicated. but u still can find some points to reference).
edit: tho now that i think about it the world's Fatalis' moveset maybe isnt that hard lol. primalzeno is rather harder. but the damage output is definitely there. and now u can say that all examples i gave are TU fights... thats just what came to my mind, as another example GU deviants were HARD (and in base generations too, no grank) kinda asf and that was in 1.0. and last time i played GU was yesterday and this shit still carts people hard.
edit2: i also experienced 2dos LOW RANK Shogun Cenataur for first time yesterday and holy fuck this mofo never stops attacking. felt like a small miracle that i beat him first time, it prolly didnt have that much hp. took 20-30 mins i think, maybe almost 40. shit is HARD.
Honestly, as a soulsborne player I get my ass handed to me by any of the new games. Sure some parts are easier (like understanding the RPG elements) but they consistently make bosses that trouble even the vets of the series. I think MH can do that while also having content that’s more welcoming to Vets.
But that therein lies with what makes those games difficult.
What makes MH difficult? Is it the moveset of the monsters, mastering your weapon, learning the mechanics or a combination of all 3? How do you tailor the difficulty so that veterans get challenged while new players aren't shit on? Especially since this isn't G-rank.
It’s honestly an intriguing question, and one I don’t think many people have a definite answer to. I think my immediate thoughts would be.
-challenging endgame systems for experienced players (even in HR)
-challenging side quests for experienced players
-possibly some sort of extrinsic rewards for doing certain challenges (I’m just spitballing, but maybe event quests that have much stricter time limits)
I say all this knowing that maybe I’ll have a different opinion from reviewers and think the game is an ok difficulty. If it’s too easy though, I hope title updates add challenge before G rank comes out. I’m not sure how I feel about waiting a full year for a more challenging experience.
Everyone is treating this as if absolutely nothing in the base launch of the game can be difficult, because then it would not be fair to newer players.
I expect them to break away from it eventually, but right now they're really happy with Monster Hunter being "mainstream" (after all, World is where the series really blew up, and it's the game where they added camping mid hunt...).
I'd expect one or two more iterations (include Wild) because they're comfortable raising the difficulty. That or introducing another model that doesn't yet exist to make both veterans and newbies happy.
Though if the reviews are right and the story mode is overbearing (like it was in World, maybe worse!), then having it be easy might be a blessing, so we can power through it and get to the fun part.
It's still going to be difficult experience for people new into the series. I said it elsewhere, but if Barioth is somewhere halfway in LR or early in HR, they'll get a lot of ragequits.
Dude we are vets. Some of use are a full 6 generations deep. I'm literally going to be 4 generations deep now. If the low rank or high rank portion of any new generation game comes out that is difficult for me I am either growing entirely fucking senile or the game is going to clap new players harder than Furious Rajang claps new MR players booty cheeks.
This beta I literally had my main's ENTIRE MOVESET scrambled and I still can kill most things without a problem simply because I understand how monsters tend to fight and what windows I should take. Low rank and High rank is how you ease new players into the game. It doesn't make sense to expect that section of the game to give vets any pause.
HR definitely used to be challenging and low rank was not just a run through. Theres levels to easy. I recently played some of the older games and it is not like you imply here, that it was always just a tutorial. LR + HR made up a complete game that wanted to offer a complete experience, not just a preparation for G-rank.
Its also shitty practice to excuse this, when the game is 70$, just so you can buy a 40$ expansion for the actual challenging stuff
because its not a flaw, you cant just keep making each game in the same series harder and harder. You have to leave doors open for new people, not just cater to the old.
Making the hard content optional at launch for the people that seek it? - Not okay, you have to wait a year first.
If it's optional, how does it make any detriment to newcomers, you can build up a learning curve where it gets progressively harder. (which I'm sure they will do when they release the hard content in the future)
Not everyone wants it, and that's fine - But given how many people are upset by it, it's clearly a fundamental part of Mon Hun for a lot of returning players - Which really makes it a flaw
The doors are open. The doors were never closed. just because previous games had absolutely zero content in the early game for anyone who can play for half a shit doesn't mean that we have to keep making games that have so little value to keep playing on launch. The entire point of monster Hunter is overcoming the hurdle of a tough monster the gear that you craft from previous monsters.
what's the fucking point if there's no wall to overcome at any point in the experience? there isn't one. why are you telling people that it's okay that a game has no value for skilled players? we shouldn't have to wait until the expansion comes out and pay an additional $30 minimum just for a game to actually provide even the slightest amount of pushback. That's the job of a game in the first place.
But no one is really saying the games need to be harder and harder. They just have to be designed in a way where they're in engaging due to forcing the player to genuinely interact with the mechancis to do well. If the game is so easy I can steamroll without having to upgrade much if at all, then what's the point of items beyond the potion and whetstone? What's the point of armor sets? Why should I put any effort into using traps or bombs or making gear to counter a monsters status effects? Half of the game might as well not exist if it doesn't have an effect on the average competent players experience.
I swear most veterans would be happy if the average semi competent experience was as engaging as I've seen them argue games like 4U still are. That game is a decade old yet I've heard plenty of anecdotes that while easy, they still have more fun because those games still incentivize you to interact with them in ways the new ones don't.
and what do you mean by "interreact" all the bs that really was just time wasters?
I have been playing since the OG PS2 game myself, and I am all for many of the QoL things that have come to the past 2 games, and Wilds
I mean I literally listed a ton of things that I would enjoy having more relevance but you can just strawman sure. At the most simple actually having a need to upgrade gear or else higher level monsters demolish you would be nice, but according to reviewers even that's really not the case.
That’s what the early game is for. Pace your game appropriately it’s fine. If I can play brain dead even at the very top of high rank there’s a problem
again, many of us have been playing this series for a long time, to expect them to carter to only us is honestly stupid.
If the game is really that brain dead to you (and I really doubt it is) handicap yourself.
I don’t expect them to cater only to me, my standards at this point for challenge is low. I just expect at the very end of the base game to have some challenging content I paid 60$ for.
By that point 99% of casuals would have moved on to the next game, so there’s really no reason to make the game easy to the point where even an average player doesn’t need to get decent armor to beat tempered monsters. That’s very alarming
a lot of complaining about a game that is not even out yet...
World and Rise where fine, we go through this BS almost every time...
new MH comes out, people complain about it till the next one comes out, then they complain about that one and say the previous was ok.
I said the same about world and rise. I don’t want the base games to be a cakewalk but I can tolerate easier games since it’s mainstream
However… problem is that wilds seems even WORSE than those two with the review consensus and I already thought those two base games couldn’t get much easier realistically.
If they’re wrong, I’ll gladly admit it and be happy the game is hard. But if a normal reviewer is saying the game lacks challenge, I don’t have much confidence I’ll somehow find challenge
Not really. They are ways you can make challange for veterans even in LR. For example make an optional quest available that is overtuned. Vets will make a sweat because the quest is desinged for better gear but they will beat it anyway, while most newbies would come back with better gear to beat it.
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u/Nidiis Feb 24 '25
I don't give a shit if it's "too easy". As long as it's fun. And if the beta was any indication it'll be fun.