Technically, the other person could be a drag queen, not transgender. You can't tell unless you ask/know them long enough to see them in other clothes.
In this case the person on the right is a drag queen and actually made a public statement about this image expressing how they think a future where two people like this could sit next to each other and it not be seen as some big deal is something to strive for.
Ah, so just go with whatever until you're corrected, and then use what that individual prefers. You know, like we're in a civilized society that respects the peaceful desires of individuals.
Not sure what all the butthurt is about in this thread.
Feels an awful lot like conservatives trying to intentionally conflate shit again.
I wouldn't just "go with whatever", I'd either wait for them to use their pronouns or just keep it neutral. If they tell you their name, that can be a good hint.
I'm not sure what your message is otherwise, just wanted to clear that up.
It's a bunch of men dressing as overly exagerated stereotypes of women and playing up femininity in a silly and often demeaning way.
Pretending to be a minority with exaggerated over the top makeup and playing up a caricature of that minority, often one that is silly, juvenile and unintelligent/shallow.
Blackface.
I get that it's good fun, that not all drag queens are sexist, and that it's a good way for some people to explore their gender identiy, but frankly it's super fuckin problematic and I kind of hate it.
I mean a few individuals who do it may do it out of contempt/mockery of women, but from my experience talking to drag queens it's by and large more to subvert patriarchal standards of what a man or woman "ought to be."
Ru himself seems like a pretty big outlier. I get sexist/transphobe vibes from him, especially since he's against women doing drag on his show.
Drag seems to operate outside the male gaze. There are some fetishists, yeah, but overwhelmingly drag is everything women and fem people are told not to be.
The women I know who do drag do it to express feminity in a way they're not "supposed to." Women aren't encouraged or expected to dress as flamboyantly as drag queens do. They're not supposed to be loud, crass, opinionated, or unapologetic. Women and girls are ridiculed for having "cake face" and trying too hard to impress men even when it's genuinely artful. Women are expected to dress for men's taste. For some women who do drag, they perform it as a "fuck you, I dress how I like. This looks good to me I don't care how gaudy, tacky, clownish you think it is. It's not for you and I'm feeling myself."
For gay men, common explanations I've heard for why they like drag is that growing up expected to conform to toxic standards of masculinity makes a lot of women celebrities very admirable figures. Many queens base their personas on people like Dolly Parton, Madonna, Lady Gaga or, hell, even toys they weren't allowed to play with like Barbie. It's a fuck you to patriarchy and it's a creative and relatively safe way to engage in performances you're not allowed to have or were denied earlier in life when it could've helped you form a positive self concept.
For a lot of trans women, I've heard that engaging in drag were the first few times they were able to practice make up or try on different gender expressions. Their real life selves aren't the same as their drag personas, obviously, but it can be helpful to have that relatively safe and supportive space to have your gender reflexively validated and where there's no wrong way to express yourself.
That's all fair. Still kind of hate it, still kind of see it as wildly inappropriate, and a lot of drag queens including the most famous one are kinda sexist/transphobic.
So that's all well and good, but I'm not sure it should get a pass based on the intentions of some people who perform in it.
Or you can just ask. Just because a guy wants to wear a dress doesn’t automatically make them a chick. Maybe they wanted to wear something different? Women wear mens’ clothing all the time
To be fair on that point, the majority of men's clothing that I've seen women wear has been designed for utility/comfort (there's a reason a baggy hoody is popular).
Most womens clothing hasn't been designed for those reasons, so I'd understand it less for men to wear womens clothes (other than skirts maybe, there's a reason boys bust out skirts at schools that don't allow shorts in the summer).
Maybe. My point is that it's a guess. It's a decent educated guess -- and drag queens won't be angry if you think they're trans -- but it's still a guess.
I never said that, so what the hell are you talking about my dude? I said could be and that you can't tell just by looking at someone what their gender identity is.
Where did I say that’s the only thing that defines a lady? I’m wondering which part of my statement said that. I said she’s
Dressed like a lady and should be treated like and considered a lady
Unless they don't want to be treated like a lady, in which case you'd have been incredibly rude to them. Treat them like a person. You don't need to try and clock everyone you look at.
Is there a man in the picture? Are we not discussing the ladies in the picture? If this was about men then I’d be discussing men . Wth my dude, is this really worth the argument? You know damn well this a discussion about females so just stop
Classic woke moron being exactly the kind of person they're trying to pretend they are not. Having long hair, wearing a dress, and wearing makeup makes you a woman? Men can't wear any of that? You say they're dressed like a lady. Maybe they're dressed like a man who wants to be feminine you woketard.
If you were to actually take time and read the comments, one person knows the person dressed in drag, and they’re on their way to a drag show. So seriously, if you don’t actually read the comments shut the fuck up and quit trying to cause trouble
Again, not a bad guess. You're certain to avoid offending anyone if you do that. It's probably what I'd do, too. I'm just pointing out that it is a guess.
I agree. We were in Montreal last year and we went to see A live show with all the stars form Rupaul’s drag race it was amazing . But the friend I refer to that dresses I drag, came out to us and wanting to, on my Birthday. We were all getting dressed up and he says” so here is the thjng, I want to try this but I’m scared” So we got him all dressed up, took HER dancing and it was amazing I was so honoured The best part was my husband took her hand and said “ my lady, may I have This dance” and they danced until their feet hurt
not in the thread I read. Maybe you should stop being so accusatory and rude
edited to add, I now see someone commented after me calling you that. No need to attack me for someone else's comment, and mine was accurate at the time.
We live in a complicated time. Trans people have only really been accepted into society very recently (lots still don’t accept them). It’s hard to know exactly what you should call each individual, as a man might dress in a woman’s closed and still call himself a man, others would be offended by being called a man.
What I’m trying to say, is that you’re calling the person what you believe they want to be called. It’s not bigotry or even ignorance, it’s just that you don’t know.
As cowtow said, you don’t know unless you ask them, and that’s often awkward/ offensive in itself. It’s natural to say “he/she” when describing someone so the only “safe bet” is to stop doing it and calling everyone “they”, which is unrealistic as gender is a large part of of a persons description.
I don’t know why I wrote so much, but you were pretty respectful if you ask me.
Well all the trans people and cross dressing people I know , prefer to be called my her and she when In ladies clothes . But I get what you’re for sure Those are the ones I know
It sounds like you have far more experience being around trans people than most (myself included). I trust your judgement with using the correct pronoun as much as anyone, but even you might have made a mistake on this post. Nothing wrong with it, like I said it’s impossible to know until you ask. Lots of people seem to see all trans people as a super organism, like they all have the same beliefs/ pronouns/ situations. It’s obviously not like that, they’re a load of individuals that may or may not agree with other trans people about certain topics.
I’ve yet to meet a female transitioning to a male. But I am pretty sure you can figure out , if it’s a female transitioning to a male, they’d want to me called him or he. Common sense would dictate that, but you knew that before asking the question.
I've never seen someone miss the point this bad lol it's truly stunning. I'm not asking you to educate anyone you absolute dipshit. You wanna talk about common sense after saying all of your trans friends prefer she pronouns? Common sense says you'd say trans women.
That makes me a bigot? Funnily enough, you called me that before I even defended myself. So do you ever know what the word means or are you using it because you recently heard the word and wanted to try it out ?
This is the meaning of a bigot
a person who is obstinately or unreasonably attached to a belief, opinion, or faction, especially one who is prejudiced against or antagonistic toward a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group.
"don't let a few small-minded bigots destroy the good image of the city"
I’m in no way prejudiced, or small minded I’m to being antagonistic against towards a person or group based in their beliefs or membership to a group ! So how am I a bigot, I ask again!
When a man is dressed in drag , or that person is trans, they prefer to be called she / her pronouns. That’s just my experience with all my trans friends
Typically drag queens actually are not trans women. Some are, most aren’t. Not saying you shouldn’t use “she/her,” but don’t ascribe a gender identity to someone that you have no idea if or reason to believe they use.
there is no way for you to tell if that person is trans, or if they are a cross-dresser. One they are a woman, the other they are a man expressing themselves in a feminine way. So no, its not plain as day, and your assumption to try and force a gender upon someone based strictly on their outward appearance is showing your biggotry.
I’m far from a bigot if you knew anything about cross dressing or drag , you would know that when I’m dress, the pronoun used is her or she. I’m not forcing gender on anyone. But thanks
You don’t even know me! People tend to throw that word bigot around jsut to make a point . I have Many gay, lesbian, bi , trans friends I’m bi sexual myself and am not anywhere near a bigot If
He is dressed in drag, it’s she/ her pronouns they prefer. But thanks for trying to educate me
There are not "trying to force a gender" on someone just because they use prior knowledge to make an informed guess. Many drag queens prefer to be referred to as "she/her" when in drag. It is known that this is not the case for every single drag queen ever. However, it's not offensive to take your best guess and get it wrong, as long as you apologize and correct yourself. It's not nearly as dire as you're making it out to be.
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u/toiletcleaner999 Mar 14 '21
I’m worried about the creep taking pictures of women on the subway!