Yes, but also I'm still mad at Biden for not allowing a regular primary to happen, having the worst debate performance of all time, and then only giving his replacement a few months to try and beat Trump. I kinda blame him for a lot of the mess we're in.
His most important job was to prevent a second Trump presidency, and he was asleep at the wheel for 4 years.
Grow up dude. We had one choice, an orange racist rapist criminal or the VP in a relatively successful administration who wasn’t a racist rapist. It wasn’t that difficult.
You’d be surprised how many voters knew nothing about Kamala other than what MAGA social media and FOX news told them about her.
Americans are used to seeing presidential candidates for at least 2 years before voting for them. The primary process and the stories that arise from that are vital towards informing voters.
Giving the lady you just stuck in the closet for 4 years less than 6 months to run for president was a short sighted move by the entire party and demonstrated their inability to be decisive.
Biden was a good president and millions of Americans did vote MAGA for all the wrong reasons. That doesn’t take away from the fact that his admin failed to set up the next generation of his party for success.
The only people who watch FucksNews are those who would have voted for trump anyway. There is no excuse for voting for him unless you were aligned with his message of hate. This wasn’t an election between two candidates who had similar views and policies, it was one where the difference could not have been greater. Voting for the orange racist rapist was a conscious decision to want what he wanted for America, the destruction of everything that stood in the way of white supremacy.
You’re giving way too much credit to the average American and their knowledge of current events, civics and way the world works.
Most news watchers watch Fox News. They are the largest cable news network by a really significant margin.
The average American cannot name all 3 branches of government, let alone understand how our government is being taken over by a white supremacist, corporate oligarchy. Those are all just a bunch of big words.
FOX News and MAGA succeed because they use plain language and give their viewers a clear enemy to blame their problems on. Simple minded people like this rhetoric because it gives them a free pass to say “my life is a mess and everyone hates me but it’s not my fault.”
Too many leading Democrats fail to realize they’re talking to a population that doesn’t value intelligence. When they go on cable TV speaking like Harvard professors while avoiding podcasts and other internet channels, it makes it super easy for MAGA to put whatever words in their mouth they want.
If Dems cared about winning, they’d be on FOX news every day and Joe Rogan once a month supporting economically populist policies and laughing off weird conspiracy accusations.
Instead Kamala ran on fucking tax credits that would only help already well off families and other vague economic ideas that would do little more than slightly soften the status quo. Americans unanimously want change and Trump represents radical change. You can’t run on a status quo platform against that.
Republicans have been pulling the same tricks since Reagan. Nothing Trump did leading up to the election was remotely surprising. It’s certainly Biden’s, Harris’, and the rest of the party’s fault that they continue to ignore this reality while pursuing palatable but still overwhelmingly corporatist legislation.
Republicans have been pulling the same tricks since Reagan.
Time & time again far right fascists rise to power by taking control of whatever media is the most popular form of media at the time, that reaches the young male.
This fact goes all the way back to the invention of almanacs
That’s the problem. The electorate is made up mostly of morons who look at adds about immigrants eating pets and believe that they are facing an existential crisis.
Who the hell is excusing them in this thread? You're arguing against a bizarre strawman. We're talking about the pragmatic realities of winning an election in the US. Which is a pretty good thing to focus on when you don't want someone like Trump in charge.
Everyone blaming Biden is excusing those who voted for the orange racist rapist. If Biden had run I would have had no problem voting for him. I would not have voted for Trump making up the excuse that Biden was too old because his age was irrelevant compared to the absolute evil incompetent idiot that I knew we would get. So yes, blaming Biden is a fucking this excuse!!
Everyone blaming Biden is excusing those who voted for the orange racist rapist
Once again, you're literally arguing against a strawman. I'm allowed to criticize Biden. Criticizing Biden doesn't mean I let the people who voted for Trump off the hook. Why would you even think that? Your thought process makes zero sense.
I'd sure better not criticize Schumer either! His failures are totally not his fault. Criticizing any Democracts and their failure to fight against Trump is just an excuse!
Who cares if you criticize Biden. Nothing wrong with that. Just don’t say this is why you voted for the orange racist rapist. Anyone who did, did so because they wanted to vote for the orange racist rapist, not because Biden was “old”.
Most voters are morons. That is a fact of life that has to be accepted. You can't blame a moron for being a moron any more than you can blame a dog for being a dog. Expecting morons to suddenly become thoughtful political experts is not just unreasonable, it's insane.
Joe Biden, on the other hand, is an accomplished career politician. It is more than reasonable to expect him to make better political decisions. The same goes for DNC party leadership.
It wouldn’t have made a difference. People who voted for Trump wanted to vote for him and they turned out in large numbers. Didn’t matter who was on the other side. Trump had the best electoral performance of anyone in the last four decades except for Biden and Obama 2008.
It’s not ignorance, it’s a willingness to hate, to believe that the reason that problems exist, is due to immigrants, Xans people, gays, blacks, academics, intellectuals, LGBT, or whoever they come up with to victimize. This has always been part of the American culture and will get worse before it gets better.
The democrats always had an uphill battle because the electorate doesn’t understand economics and inflation, which was made somewhat worse due to structural issues in the modern American economy. However, this wasn’t not the reason the orange racist rapist won, it would have been the reason for Nikki or little Ronny, both of whom were vastly better options, bad but not horrible, but they both lost convincingly to the guy with “concepts of a plan”. He didn’t win on economics, he won on Xans kids playing sports and immigrants eating pets. This wasn’t what drove 77 million Americans to the polls. The second highest vote total by a candidate ever. This was not an accident, it is who we are.
Totally. Maybe I should’ve phrased it better, I was trying to say that most people only care about politics insofar as they’re perceived to affect gas and grocery prices.
Oh yeah you got your point across I understood you. I was just saying that I’ve seen recently that if Fox News tells them that groceries are cheap, they will pretend they’re not paying $9 for eggs at the grocery store. It’s insane
You gotta meet the people where they are 🤷♂️ Biden didn’t make them stupid, he inherited them that way. It’s up to him and his party to figure out how to tell them they’re trying to help.
So far they haven’t even tried throwing shit at the wall.
I guess you're right, I just am so furious at the sneering, condescending stupidity of the average american. Like they destroy the country and their own futures thinking they are gonna own the lib
Naw don't give that guy any credit, people who think like that are half the problem.
Biden was a good president, he did the job he was elected to do very well.
He was not a great president, he was not a historical figure who saved our country from Trumpism.
But he was a good president. Holding someone up to a very high standard and using that to criticize them and say how terrible they were for not being great is the kind of "both sides" bullshit that allowed Trump into power.
America is MAGA vs not-MAGA. Either you oppose Trump and support those who oppose him or you are complicit. I know these "I'm so much smarter than everyone because I don't pick sides" folks like the hubris of standing aside and criticizing but they are hole watchers, they don't do any of the actual work to make things better.
We had one choice, an orange racist rapist criminal or the VP in a relatively successful administration who wasn’t a racist rapist. It wasn’t that difficult.
That was the situation we were put in AFTER Biden refused to honor his "transition president" campaign promise even after his abysmal approval ratings that continued to trend further and further down his entire term.
The fact is America wasn't happy with Biden's candidacy, and everyone but the ideological Reddititors knew it apparently.
You must be happy with the current administration.
I'm not. Let's not fall back into the narrative that anyone critical of Biden is MAGA - the election is over.
Completely irrelevant who was on the other side.
It's extremely relevant though. It's the context on precisely why Trump defeated Harris. If dems continue to ignore the context and pretend that every single person who didn't vote for Harris is a racist or misogynist then they'll continue to lose.
Harris would have us sending billions more to Ukraine without any security’s/loans in place. Artificially inflating our economy even more!
At least trumps administration negotiated mineral rights, and is working towards ending this stupid war.
Millions of young men are dying so politicians/defense contractors can line their pockets in Washington.
lolwut. I mean, obviously. It was a simple and obvious pick, so then why did this stupid ass country pick the "orange racist rapist criminal"? One of the big reasons is because Biden fucked up. It should have been an easy win.
The problem is the people not the candidate. Trump was virtually unbeatable. It actually say more about our country than the two dozen candidates he has defeated.
I agree that the election results can 100% be blamed on voters alone, I think Biden would have put up similar numbers to his 2020 victory and with Trump down around 7% from his 2020 numbers we would have put up a W.
The problem was that it was hard to unite so many people behind a new candidate so quickly. Biden not dropping out would have resulted in much, much stronger numbers and Trump put up very weak numbers.
Another absolutely fucking insane blueanon take from cultists doing the most to defend the DNC's massive fuck up.
For YEARS leading up to 2024 one of the most prevalent political jokes was about how the 2024 election was looking like it was going to be between "two old fucks that no one wants". I remember hearing those jokes in 2022 and they were parroted a lot in 2023. They were all over Reddit even.
I live in a red area and there was like 2 Trump flags in my area in 2024 vs dozens in 2020. In my red county there were more Harris signs than Trump. I can only speak for the Republicans I know personally, but every one of them voted AGAINST Harris rather than FOR Trump (just like most Harris votes were AGAINST Trump rather than FOR Harris).
Going against Trump in 2024 should have been a slam dunk. And it WOULD HAVE been a slam dunk if dems picked literally anyone other than geriatric Biden or his useless VP.
He had the best electoral performance of anyone except Biden and Obama 2008. Obama 2008 was unbeatable so was Trump 2024. Whether you believe it or not these are the numbers not feelings.
He is the second most ever voted candidate in a presidential election. He has tremendous political power. Look at all the shit he is doing now and is currently more popular than he was at any time in his first term. His cult is dedicated and deep. He would probably win an election if called today.
. There is no excuse for voting for him unless you were aligned with his message of hate. This wasn’t an election between two candidates who had similar views and policies, it was one where the difference could not have been greater. Voting for the orange racist rapist was a conscious decision to want what he wanted for America, the destruction of everything that stood in the way of white supremacy.
So then how about don't have his opponent be a dude who's unfortunately very unpopular, polling terribly, and even older than him? That's the entire fucking point I'm making. If Trump is such an unbelievably powerful and unbeatable opponent, than Biden shouldn't have ran against him in 2024.
To be fair. Biden had already beaten Trump and was pretty successful in his first term. There was also no clear replacement for when Biden did drop out. Even now, there is no clear leader for the Democratic Party.
There was no clear replacement because there was never the chance to run a primary.
Biden was polling very badly in 2023 and 2024. He was a trillion years old. He was facing cognitive decline, hidden by his aides. He shouldn't have run. It handicapped us.
Doesn't help having the Dems lined with milksop cowards like Schumer quietly playing both sides to try and come out on top with money and power under a uhhh checks notes blatantly corrupt, fascist regime.
Trump was right about one thing. The corruption in the white house goes deep. Unfortunately, the American people took that messaging as "oh yeah, Trump is not the corrupt one then!" despite the obvious.
The background conditions behind Trump winning 2024 are deep and delicate, and at no point did the entire Democratic party work hard enough to stand for anything meaningful together. Biden is not inherently or individually at fault but nothing about how the DNC ran the campaign was either intelligent nor as urgent as it needed to be. I'd argue they had campaign managers who were actively bought out by the Republicans.
Everyone blaming Biden is excusing those who voted for the orange racist rapist. If Biden had run I would have had no problem voting for him. I would not have voted for Trump making up the excuse that Biden was too old because his age was irrelevant compared to the absolute evil incompetent idiot that I knew we would get. So yes, blaming Biden is a fucking excuse!!
Less people voted for the dems in 2024 than they did in 2020.
There is not much more to winning an election in the USA than giving people a strong reason to vote - almost 90 million eligible people decided not to vote in 2024, and Trump won 2024 with less votes than Biden had in 2020.
Biden absolutely could have dropped out early as promised, gone to primary, and I believe you would have seen a much larger voter turnout.
So what? People always sit at home and decide not to participate.There was a choice and the people made theirs, more people than ever before, except for Biden in 2020, wanted this outcome. This wasn’t a historically high turnout election.
Do you not understand the power dynamic? The focus of any political situation should be on the people who have the most power. The people with the most power in the Democratic party made poor decisions and did not read the electorate as well as the Republicans.
The voters have the power, no one else. They decide who to vote for and then n 2024 they voted for the candidate they wanted to win with the highest support of any recent candidate except for Biden and Obama 2008.
Irrelevant excuses. We had a choice. We chose wrong. I don’t know if you realize it but the dude is still quite popular despite everything that has happened in the last two months. He is more popular now than at anytime during his first term. He would win the republican primary again and have a decent shot at winning the general election. Feel free to blame everyone else but the electorate if it helps make sense of the situation but we are not the country we thought we were.
What are you talking about. He got 31.8% of the electorate. Only Biden 34.2% and Obama 2008 32.6% did better. I know the guy is an idiot but we can’t delude ourselves into thinking that he isn’t historically popular with the electorate. The turnout was also historically high for modern elections, only lower than 2020. Numbers don’t care about our feelings.
He made the right call running again, yeah. Had he not dropped out his numbers would have been pretty similar to 2020 and with Trump being down about 7% from his 2020 performance we were likely looking at another W. There also wasn't a very good front runner from the pack of possible primary options coming from the left.
The things the media said about Biden are the same things they said about him in 2020. He probably would have put up another easy dub.
Was a little soft spoken for the first oh say 5 minutes or so, I'll give you that Did you know that Trump lied over 50 times in that debate?
There's a reason why it took about 3 weeks of the media breaking it's hard 48 rule (for the first time in history no less) to push the bullshit "he's senile" narrative before his polling numbers even took a hit.
Y'all probably shouldn't have just blindly trusted the legacy media. I don't think they're on our side.
Haha, ridiculous take honestly. Obama would have wiped the floor with Trump and we all know it. He appealed to the left and center, which is what the modern DNC has completely failed at.
Obama had unmatched charisma. Trump does as well, though his focus is different. This is exactly the problem, we vote on personalities rather than competence and execution.
Yes, Obama, literally one of the best speakers of in recent memory, who became the first African-American president almost 20 years ago. Pretending like it was all his political positioning that let him become president is a crazy take.
It would have been a pretty easy win if he had stayed in the race tbh. The corporate wing of the democrats, particularly Schumer and Pelosi thrust that upon the party. Progressive caucus was all in on Biden.
He was alleged "unpopular" in 2020 when he beat Trump and the media said all of these same things about Biden, there was concern about polling but then he won in a landslide.
He would have done about the same in the election.
So you think we could’ve had primaries and then fundraised the hundreds of millions needed for a campaign in four months?
You’re not living in reality. By the time Biden was pushed out (thanks AIPAC!), it was too late to run anyone but Harris, and she was easy to beat because she’s a woman of color.
Biden should not have been run the first time. No ifs and buts about it. He has had issues long before his first win. Other candidates could have been run in 2020, and there would not have been a Trump in 2025. That was the DNC's blunder. Also, who is “we”? You speak like you are part of the inner DNC circle. Though a crackhead could run the DNC better than who's running it now.
Well, with all your confidence, I am unsure why he didn't win a second time then. You make it sound like a conspiracy against him. He dropped out, all by himself.
Nah. He dropped out on his own and I get it. Everything he's done as president has been an uphill battle that he dug in and won. From bringing back unions, to leaving longstanding foreign conflicts to forgiving student loans, he faced the world's nastiest and intellectually flimsiest criticisms at every turn. Another 4 years of holding the country together single handedly sounds exhausting.
He shoulders a good chunk of blame, but a lot of blame should also be put on his handlers and senior party leadership. The hubris of the party is staggering, and it’s still on vivid display as demonstrated by the recent DNC meeting in which no one was willing to call out the party for it failures and excesses which caused it to hemorrhage support across most all demographics.
That is exactly how a primary always happens when there is an incumbent. Do not fall for the narrative that was created to sour Dems from voting (and it worked) That’s shit was blown out of proportion. I tried to point out that proper protocol was in fact followed AND the “lefty news” ppl claiming it wasn’t had a dozen signs they had been pivoting right for some time prior
Now they’re sucking Elon/peter Thiels nuts all over the internet and openly right while their fans that stuck around sweaaarrrrr they aren’t
So shouldn't you be more concerned that something like this can happen so easily? You can be mad at a person but it is much smarter to be frustrated with the system that allows something like this to happen and will always allow something like this to happen.
I liked the Biden administration in a neutrally positive way. I'd prefer to Trump, without question.
But let's be real: Biden had dementia, or some kind of obvious cognitive decline. His administration was acting as President for him. He should have been forced out under the 25th waaaaay before hand. My theory is that Kamala, as part of the proxy presidency from his administration, purposefully waited as long as possible to prevent someone else being able to challenge her and win an open primary. By waiting so long, she was forced through as an incumbent Dem candidate without a primary.
Blame the democrats and the Biden admin et al for the situation we're in.
The real crime is the self own of appointing Merrick "I won't do shit" Garland and let him sit on his thumb for 4 years
Fucking yawn. One, we could have held a primary and Kamala would have still won. She was the heir to the throne and if somehow a white dude became the nominee, the optics would be horrible.
Two, she needed less time, not more. She peaked right after being announced as the nominee, then slowly lost support each and every week. The polls got worse and worse and worse closer to the election. If she had more time, she might have done even worse.
Three, and most importantly, no one gives a shit about primaries and debates. 25% of Americans saw the debate between Harris and Trump and that's the most important election event. The heavy majority of Americans don't care about politics. They vote based on what they see in their lives. If they can get a job. If they can afford food. If the price of gas is up or down. If any of those are negative, they vote for change. They saw high inflation and Dems were dead on arrival.
No, it was the voter's job. Blaming Biden when Trump wins every swing state after racking up felonies and called a rapist by a judge in court is asinine. After all the shit Trump said and did the Dems should have won even if they ran a Boston Terrier as their Presidential candidate. The American people only have themselves to blame.
Yepppp. Hubris led to downfall for all of us. Of course I mad at the current administration, and the people that voted them into power, but I will never forget how Biden’s ego made certain of Trump 2.0.
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u/Nastrod 8d ago edited 8d ago
Yes, but also I'm still mad at Biden for not allowing a regular primary to happen, having the worst debate performance of all time, and then only giving his replacement a few months to try and beat Trump. I kinda blame him for a lot of the mess we're in.
His most important job was to prevent a second Trump presidency, and he was asleep at the wheel for 4 years.