What did they expect when they gave him immunity? I’m shocked people don’t get this. They literally handed him a “trump card” and he’s already proved he has zero respect for the law, constitution, legal precedent, morality, etc. I’m confused how people are confused by this. You could see this coming a mile away.
I feel this way too. Like, Roberts wrote that immunity opinion, which is not defensible under ANY theory of American law, liberal or conservative. It came about in the context of a case about an attempted coup and subversion of the 2020 election. If this was not Roberts's intent, then he is a far stupider man than anyone thought.
That guy in the park who tries to give people legal advice when the Ranger tries to kick someone out for smoking weed... Yeah, even he knows this is crap.
Nobody with half a brain is really an originalist. It's an intellectually void position. The constitution literally has instructions on how to change it.
Well, I don't know. How could Thomas disagree with the definition of "citizen" or perhaps even "human" at the time the Constitution was written? What about that is intellectually-void?
Yeah their ruling on Bruen really looked like they were throwing Originalism out the window the moment it became inconvenient for them, lol. Can't wait for more Galaxy-Brain opinions from Thomas the next four years.
Scalia might actually have been. Rarely agreed with him, but at least his dissents were often interesting reads, and shared a moral principle that the current members of the majority court seem to lack, unless that principle is "whatever the GOP wants".
I was sort of hoping at the time, surely they wont grant that immunity, do they want to do themselves out of a job, you don't need judges when you no longer have the rule of law, Too optimistic,
I think they all underestimated Trump and were more worried about the clapback from his base than the long term consequences of their decision.
Same as the republican senators who didn’t vote to convict immediately after Jan 6. I’m sure many of them thought ”no way Trump is coming back from this, no reason to stick my neck out and piss off a percentage of my constituents”. I’m sure many of them are having private regrets now.
I would guess by the actions and comments by the Republican senators that they are on board with Trump going all fascist and authoritarian. It might be just one or two that might have regrets about not voting to impeach. That includes McConnell in that list of regretting their decision.
By hell, he's seeing Trump in the same burning room as himself for all eternity. Listening to Trump lie his ass off and tell stories about winning the Mar-a-Lago golf championship 30 times in a row.
Been doing it for a long time. Just look at how the fourth amendment was eroded in the name of not making the job of police too difficult. More recent example, Citizens United, which you could argue was the beginning of all our current problems.
Tbh, i think you could go back to Newt being speaker. That started the whole we don't negotiate bullshit, and it's just devolved from there. Citizens had an even bigger impact,but definitely wasn't the start.
It’s widely accepted that it was Newt (followed very closely by Rush and Fox News) that completely assfucked America. Citizens United was just the cherry on top of the shit sundae
I've been saying it at least 15 years....and just think how much better things seemed in 2010.... i was carrying 2 mortgages, and a newly adopted daughter when you couldn't give a home away, insanely stressed, and it was better than this insanity.
I don't know that it's widely accepted. Newt, the advent of fox, and Rush were effectively the unholy trinity. Rush "preaching" on every other AM station in rural/ flyover America, , Fox doing the same on cable TV, both with religion/Bible mixed in, and Newt.....and a blow job.
He’s not stupid or an evil mastermind. He’s just a nerd with no spine, who tries to preserve institutional credibility by keeping the court out of the way.
He didn’t want to put a republican presidential candidate in prison, he didn’t want to take a stand and say the president had absolute immunity, so he found a way to do away with any more Trump criminal cases that might come up while still saying that the president can be convicted of some crimes.
He keeps kicking the can farther and farther down the road and doesn’t realize he’s about to follow that can off a cliff.
He’s just a nerd with no spine, who tries to preserve institutional credibility by keeping the court out of the way.
All the independent experts said that SCOTUS would never grant immunity. It would have been the easiest thing in the world for Roberts to vote against immunity, and said "not my problem". That would have been keeping the court "out of the way".
Roberts is absolutely stupid if he thinks that ruling "preserve institutional credibility". That ruling was pretty much the breaking point for whether it was mainstream to say that SCOTUS has no credibility - and it took a lot to get to that point.
His reprimand to Trump today was garbage. He was all "impeachment isn't the answer for decisions you don't like" and didn't say a single word about the substantive issue, which is, beyond the call for impeachment, the fact that Trump et al are defying a valid court order. And lying about it. Oh, and bragging about it, too. I hope he enjoys the accountability for cratering 250 years of a government run under laws without a king.
also his wife "recruits" attorneys for firms who are about to have business before the supreme court.
his wife helps hire people for firms who are going to go before him soon, while she's actively getting paid by those law firms.
it looks to me like roberts thought he could keep trump in check and now he sees things running away from him and he desperately wants to not get sent to gitmo.
He’s milktoast for sure but I also think something is wrong with his brain. Not joking I mean like some mild decline maybe a mini stroke or episode unnoticed.
Like the new Kennedy, it’s definitely funny to say his brain is fucked up but it’s also true albeit in yet another way like maybe he deteriorated some chem levels in his gray matter or yup..l could a been the worm.
They aren’t stupid, and only mildly evil but massively inside their own bubble of people who think like them. It takes a very determined, diligent, courageous and wise person to break out of their bubble to seek different perspectives. Otherwise, most people are comfortable in their bubbles.
massively inside their own bubble of people who think like them
That is just another way of saying stupid.
It takes a very determined, diligent, courageous and wise person to break out of their bubble to seek different perspectives
Or, you know, a respectable university education. Learning the importance of seeking different perspectives is a central part of the concept of a university education.
I think a decent education does increase the chances of having an open mind but I know plenty of highly educated people who no longer seek diverse perspectives outside of their narrow field of study and I know people who aren’t very educated but always seek to first ascertain the facts of any issue before making up their minds.
Non-stupid people often underestimate the damaging power of stupid individuals.
It's like when you see someone beating their head against a wall, but they break through and then start headbutting the next wall. If they just turn their head and look they would see the doors, but they only look forward to that wall until it breaks free, and then they charge at the next one.
Conservatives thinking they can control radical elements intent on overthrowing the status quo completely? And then being surprised that the radicals are really, really radical? No way that would ever happen and you can call me Franz von Papen if it ever does.
Vladimir Putin's reign is characterized by having his second-in-commands fight amongst themselves, preventing there from being any single power that can buck him.
Most of the conservative justices are good at writing to appear smart but are short sighted and outside of an incredibly narrow scope of law kinda dumbasses. Thomas is probably the smartest of the lot and he is just here to get fucking paid so that doesn't matter.
I think the thing about Roberts is he can’t fathom that anyone would be as corrupt as the people he surrounds himself with and the people he enables. I don’t think Roberts shares the same agenda that the modern GOP does, even if his ideologies tend to align with a lot of their bullshit. He’s another “decorum” guy like Schumer and the rest of the rank-and-file politicians standing idly by, assuming that the ship will course correct even if they take their hands off the wheel.
Edit:
So many business-as-usual politicians and judges seem to believe that the rule of law, checks and balances, and precedent are enough to prevent our government from going fully authoritarian. These deluded assholes seem to think that the simple suggestion of these guardrails being in place will keep the country from going off a cliff.
They fail to grasp that it’s up to them to enforce these protections actively—or that doing so might cost them their careers and fortunes in the short term to prevent our democracy from being hijacked. It is the responsibility and duty of these career politicians to do anything it takes to protect the people who have allowed them to live the lives that they have.
I think Roberts knows damn well what he's done; now he's just paying limp-dick lip service to the rule of law to keep up some meager appearance that we're not in a de facto dictatorship.
Hubris. He's probably a really smart dude, especially to get where he is. To use that power and form it into a giant dildo to fuck yourself is very impressive. I'd say his hubris and pride combined with conviction is what created his own downfall.
I think he talked himself into it. He wanted authoritarian rule, so he let them gin up some official-sounding bullshit to get to that goal, and signed off on it. That's his legacy now.
Whatever qualities they use to get through Law School and rise to prominence and high standing, it is not restraint or humility or folowing any precedent, or understanding anything deeply. They're just very, very skilled at shoveling the right flavor of partisan hackery to get the nomination, and looking official in those robes. There's nothing more to it, though they pretend otherwise.
Justice Thomas is hopelessly, openly corrupt, and they can't do anything at all about it. They complain that the Democrats make law from whole cloth, but they constantly cut back and destroy laws that stand in the way of this new dictatorship.
purely performative on Roberts' part - this is EXACTLY what they ruled on and EXACTLY what they want. Republicans always use the 'see, I tried...(shrug)' defense when this comes back to haunt them (see Lindsey Graham and Mitch McConnell for perfect examples)
Mitchell McConnel is hilarious. The man shot down any forward movement with a flat out NO response without actually saying, "naw, I'm just going to fuck yall over again for my own groups benefit" then when Trump shows up and does it in your face he votes against every decision he made knowing his vote wouldn't do anything as he retires and giggles away back home knowing he let it all burn in the end before he dies....pretty sad.
I guess this is just that point in time where Babylon finally falls so we can all unite together in it's rebuilding.
I’m not so sure they want it. It seems to me that granting the immunity business was just appeasement in the hopes that he would not be re-elected. After all, who on earth would want more of Trump and all his baggage? But America has shown that they love the bastard and now the Supreme Court must reap what it has sown. The only potential saving grace is that self-interest may mobilize scotus to protect whatever they still have: a very cushy gig for life lots of “tips” and freebies.
They wanted the power that following their leader granted. It was like a drug, and appeasement was their way to keep fiending. And just like an addict, they think they have control over it right up to the point where everything topples down around them. Everyone else who fails or gets sold out around them just couldn't hack it. They're different though. It won't happen to them.
They were picked so they could make these kids of rulings. The problem is when theory meets practical, and their guy hit the fast-forward button in ways even they didn't expect. They wanted to ease people into this over a year, not whatever this is.
Realistically, the Conservative plan for SCOTUS was a decade or two or even three of making rulings that they could pretend were "just calling balls and strikes", even if they clearly weren't, while being able to hide behind "well, if America wants to change this, they can just pass a new law or amendment or whatever" (while Republicans in the Senate filibuster forever). Most people don't follow SCOTUS, and some of the most impactful rulings are in cases that are about boring administrative procedure type stuff, so it becomes a very easy way to get Conservative stuff done without most people understanding how or why. I'm not even sure the ultimate goal was necessarily open fascism so much as placing SCOTUS in the position of being able to veto Democratic presidents while letting Republican presidents get away with shady stuff. Basically a managed democracy where they can act as puppet masters. Oh, and take some hefty bribes for their troubles.
But lurching America directly into a dictatorship definitely does fuck their plans up. Even if they want a lot of the end goals, they have to know that this kind of sudden movement is going to produce a big rebound effect at some point. Oh, and it could easily mean that no one will feel the need to bribe them anymore. Why bother bribing judges when they're no longer the real power?
No, he lost the popular vote more that the previous 2.
Research about voting machines being connected to Russian servers via Starlink, and analysis of the voting patterns in states he won.
Geezus, of course they rigged it, of course they cheated. He all but admitted it when he said he didnt need their vote, and after '24, there would be no more elections
I’m always thinking about how the crowd he told would no longer have to vote was exultant about it. That “have” carries a lot of weight to me. Despite what one would expect the American civic religion to instill in them, they saw/see voting—participation, even at such a minor level—as onerous. They want more a sort of automaton that shares their exact mentality and priorities, so they can just get their way automatically. Not a living, thinking, arbitrating person who might not support them for even a short span.
Disagree here. I strongly suspect Roberts thought Trump would lose. Everyone wanted to kick the can down the road and not do their jobs to enforce the law, and that's how we got here.
Not to be pedantic, but the idiom "can't see past your own nose" wouldn't exist if our more intellectually challenged "patriots" could see a mile away.
If Robert’s gives power to Trump, it increases the power that Roberts holds. If a case is brought against the president, the SCOTUS is who ultimately will decide the outcome. Robert’s probably got off on the idea he could control Trump. He probably should have thought about what happens when Trump says no.
Robert’s led the SCOTUS to the record low approval ratings, partisan environment, and cases that defy the constitution or hundreds of years of standing. He wanted this, and he supported this. Robert’s is just doing more of the damage control, pretend to be unbiased bullshit he always pulls. It’s hard to believe any of it when private court documents show he has predetermined many cases.
Roberts can’t even control the majority of the court. Look at the Dobbs decision. Roberts was begging them not to just flat-out overturn Roe, but Alito and his activist wife leaked the draft.
Well, the Supreme Court left it open for them to decide. They stated that his powers were absolute except in certain categories. That carve out was so they had control over him. I don’t think they will control him though, he will simply ignore them regardless.
I love the idea that it was a gimme, a wink wink nod nod for Biden to do whatever he needs to in order to stop this existential threat to our democracy.
They all know what he did and arranged on Jan 6 was treason.
I also guarantee, as much as I am opposed to the conservative court, they are against committing a treasonous insurrection and the damage that a potential future (now current) Trump dictator will do to the country and the world.
They could even WANT a dictator, but they aren't dumb enough to think Trump would do anything but destroy our country as an idiot and Russian puppet.
I guarantee every member of the Supreme Court and most elected Republicans voted against Trump. We've seen enough of the personal communications between Republican officials and Fox News people to know they ALL hate Trump, his proclivities, his impulsiveness, and more than anything that he is OBVIOUSLY an asset of Russia.
I guarantee every member of the Supreme Court... voted against Trump.
I'm fairly confident that Thomas voted for Trump. Hell, his wife, Ginny, was in on the January 6 coup. As to Alito, he was flying treasonous flags at his house and attempted to blame it on his wife, who may well be in cahoots with sweet Ginny.
Honey, you’re living in a fantasy world if you think there’s actually a Republican cabal itching to stop Trump or if you think any of the Conservative justices voted against him. That’s what Kamala’s team was counting on during her last minute pivot to the right during the campaign and guess what - none of these so-called “centrist” Republicans showed up to stop Trump. And they’re all falling in line behind him in Congress to rubber stamp every galling cabinet appointment and every horrific spending bill. And none of their Republican constituents care.
Whether that’s because most people in this country are pig-ignorant (even many among the political elite) and won’t understand the repercussions until they hit them in the face or because they understand that they’ll BENEFIT from Trump’s policies it doesn’t matter. These people are willing to hold their noses and go along with whatever Trump suggests. We need to acknowledge reality and stop living in a fantasy where there is a massive Republican opposition to anything that’s happening right now.
We do have honest statements from numerous GOP officials over the years, including VP Vance. You have McConnell on Jan 6th saying "Let the Dems take care of the bastard" and saying Trump is "there is no question - NONE - that Trump is practically and morally responsible".
More than anything I think elected Republicans, and much of their voters, are snowflakes. There are plenty of examples of Republicans privately expressing that they're scared to oppose Trump due to his fervent, brainwashed supporters.
Then, there's the ones like Graham who are scared of being primaried and use the reasoning that by rubber stamping a dictatorship they are keeping their seat from being occupied by a true believer that... rubber stamps a dictatorship the same way.
I agree with you and have zero doubt that plenty of elected Republicans are overjoyed that their wildest Heritage Foundation and Federalist Society dreams are coming true.
I just also think we're in a "look at the Emperor's amazing clothes!" reality where a good portion will proudly exclaim "I knew he had no clothes on and was too scared to say it!" if it all comes crashing down.
Some of those will be completely insincere bandwagoners. Others will be sincere, but we'll never really know the difference.
F*ck them all, but I do think there's is a multitude of flavors and Venn-Diagrams of people "supporting" this coup.
Telling people since that ruling was published thar this was America's enabling act. Trump in office + this ruling was the end of democracy and the start of fascism in the US
At the moment we are in the consolidation of power phase of American fascism (called "Gleichschaltung" or synchronisation under Hitler). Especially Musk is currently literally flowing Hitler's game plan in taking over a nation.
This happens when the American education about Nazis start in 1939, not 1920. The most important time to study nazism is not their actual crimes (they are important, but only to give context how evil they were). The most important time is 1920 to 1933 to learn how they came to power, the ideas and rethoric, and the second most important time is 1933 to 1939to learn how they entrenched themselves.
People deserve this shit. Near 70% either voted for this or didn't vote at all. Throughout history people have had to fight for democracy, it was never handed to them on a silver platter.
“He knows those voting machines so well” “we don’t need any votes, we already have all the votes we need” there’s a chance we have no idea who voted how.
Actually more people didn’t vote than voted for Trump and Harris got one percentage less than Trump but if the people who voted independent had voted for Harris she would have won. He has no mandate whatsoever.
but that is the sad part of the whole thing. I dont expect 0% nonvoters as there indeed are good reasons not being able to, but to have a huge population not caring about their civic duty when there is so much on the line is just depressing.
That's not the entire amount. Precisely because it was such an effective campaign strategy, as much effort was put into suppressing the vote as possible, from psychological manipulation to criminal ratfuckery.
This is not even new. For a few decades now, higher voter turnout has consistently meant better election results for Democrats.
Well, the other problem is that while they are gutting things like medicare, medicaid and social security, things that affect a lot of Republican voters, the voters are still saying they'd never vote Democrat.
You fucking idiots. The Democrats literally fund the programs that save your lives and that you are bitching about being cut yet you'd never vote for them?
This is the level of stupidity we are dealing with in this country. This is the level of brainwashing thanks to Fox News. This is why they lie and accuse, call Democrats pedophiles when Repbulicans are the ones who are pedophiles. They know that the average Fox viewer is too fucking stupid to put 2 and 2 together.
This country is so fucked, democracy was fun while it lasted.
I'm tired of this whole "voting is a right" bullshit. Voting needs to be an obligation and it should come with a free, thorough, civics and history lesson. Couple that with term limits, insider investment laws, and abolishment of the two-party system. That's the only way we're going to move forward
Sotomayor straight up said in her dissent that they (members of the court) could be assassinated with no consequences due to that ruling. They gave up all their power.
Our little democratic republic relies too much on people behaving honorably. Or at least somewhat honorably. Trump blew that to hell. We’re in trouble, I hope people realize that.
I am with you, but just to be clear, 'people behaving' to some form and level of societal norm is required right up and down the populace, otherwise you have a completely failed state and a breakdown of society. This isn't a democratic or otherwise thing, but a basic facet of societies existing and functioning at all.
And also to be clear, this erosion of institutions is scary as hell, and disgusting.
The way trump acts in government is the same way magats act in society. It's already broken. Take masks during COVID as just one example. When half of your population is psychopaths and sociopaths, I'd say your society is broken.
I don't think it's half of the population. Those traits get more and more concentrated the higher you climb up the ladder. Overall, I think it's only about 1% of the population, but we live in a society that not only promotes but also rewards these kinds of behavior.
You have described the collapse of Somalia perfectly. Angry desperate people with no boundaries but lots of guns, turning on their neighbours over the colour of their t-shirts.
No, alot of them are probably cheering on the erosion of their constitutional rights so they could deport a couple of gangsters with a little less paperwork/procedure than it would have taken otherwise.
Be careful what we wish for. There are right wing/libertarian facade groups who want desperately to call a new constitutional convention to scrap it all and start over. Fairly certain this would tank everything in the country and make us a backwater financially for decades. Part of why the US is a good place to do business is relative predictability. Take that away by scrapping all the US laws and replacing everything including the constitution will destroy that.
Unfortunately, there increasingly seems to be only one way to restore "predictability" to the US.
There's only one kind of president doing this, one kind of judge, one party, one cult. MAGA is that instability, and at this point they ARE the Republican Party. They've fully bought-in to their populist, idiocrasy, outrage-farming tactics.
The GOP would have to be burned to the ground to prevent this from happening again and again. And that's a tall order.
Bad news: this administration has shown that it can’t be trusted to honor contracts / agreements, which might be the nail in our coffin in terms of stability. Yay! So much winning.
trump showed us all the holes during his first reign of terror. What did Dems/Congress do when we saw how few guardrails actually existed...nothing. Of course, the Republicans would have never supported anything that would have helped but you have to fucking try, FFS.
I wished they'd realized it before the car left the cliff behind a few months ago. The free fall already sucks, but the crash landing at the bottom's what's gonna do us in...
that's why I keep telling people to arm themselves, and they think I'm being too extreme and spewing violent rhetoric, no mother fucker I am trying to ensure if shit hits the fan we are prepared. There is no decorum or honor left. Arm yourselves!
You’re absolutely correct, I keep saying the same thing. This country‘s biggest Achilles’ heel is everything is predicated on a responsible actor. There seems to be no mechanism if that’s not the case. Huge error by the founding fathers.
It also is meaningless until theres a case for them to rule against him on. Cool finger wagging, John, but if that doesn’t require having to actually make any sort of real stand then his response isn’t even the bare minimum that’s needed.
yeah. the parenthetical reference of (deportation flights) because there is so much happening that is straight up fascism we need a cheat sheet can all be laid at the feet of the corrupt supreme court.
it can be laid at plenty of other people's feet too, but they gave him a literal green light to do all of this and explicitly said there will be no consequences from it.
Wouldn’t be surprised if that’s exactly what he does, if there’s ever a decision against him. This congress would trip all over their shoes to approve it
That we know of. There's probably plenty of shit flying under the radar because of how much bullshit is flying out every day (as intended). I really hope I'm wrong, but I really feel that organized crime allied to Trump & friends are having smalltime enemies/rivals removed on the down low with a perfunctory TS rating. I would not put it past them if this is the shit they do openly.
They already are. A few days ago, r/Conservative were thrilled at the idea of SCOTUS ruling that district courts didn't have the right to blanket injunction the country. Now their in the sub, snarling that Roberts is an activist and deserves to be deported.
It's less about what Trump thinks in this case and what the courts do. If Trump alienates the courts, from Scotus on down, he loses any claim to legitimacy he had. How this might play out is anyone's guess. But aiding and abetting a criminal in their activities carries penalities.
And if Trump decides to not listen to court rulings as he's previously shown, who's going to hold him accountable? The courts have no power if it's rulings aren't enforced
That is the question at hand really. Can the courts compel a president to obey the law? In the America I was taught about all my decades yes, they can. But we are seeing something very different now.
THIS!! we wouldn’t be in this mess if roberts and scotus said he couldn’t run because of the insurrection act in the 14th amendment. and if they hadn’t given him immunity.
Enough with blaming Roberts for everything. He had 1 vote out of 9. Blame alito, Thomas, kavanaugh who are legit rubber stamping judges that just side with Trump on everything
I'm honestly shocked at how ACB has been voting. I'm not going to hold my breath that she'll continue to go that way, but pleasantly surprised several times.
Betrayal by someone you liked or trusted always hurts more than being attacked by someone you knew was an enemy.
Roberts hid behind his reputation of being a "centrist" for years. That's where the bitterness comes from. Plus, he's chief Justice, so it's just intuitive to focus on him.
Clearance and Alito are the absolute worst in terms of their rulings. That is true, however.
Chief JusticeJohn Robertsaccused the liberal justices of fearmongering in the 6-3 majority opinion. It found that presidents aren’t above the law but must be entitled to presumptive immunity to allow them to forcefully exercise the office’s far-reaching powers and avoid a vicious cycle of politically motivated prosecutions.
Chief justice pushes back against calls to impeach judges who rule against Trump
Chief Justice John Roberts issued a statement following President Donald Trump's call for a judge to be impeached for ruling against the administration.Chief justice pushes back against calls to impeach judges who rule against Trump
“For more than two centuries,” the chief justice said, “it has been established that impeachment is not an appropriate response to disagreement concerning a judicial decision. The normal appellate review process exists for that purpose.”
The argument during the immunity case literally pointed out that with this power the President could order the removal, detainment and even kill SCOTUS if they believed it was "to protect the nation". And they have given him that power.
Which is funny because during the TikTok hearings he remarked with a laugh about how polarized everyone is making things these days in a hand wavey "the reality isn't as bad as people make it out to be" kind of way and had the whole courtroom chuckling at how silly all the alarmism is amongst the various political extremes.
"For more than two centuries, it has been established that impeachment is not an appropriate response to disagreement concerning a judicial decision," Roberts said in a statement on Tuesday.
"The normal appellate review process exists for that purpose."
This is definitely true. However, judges being self interested people, the GOP impeaching judges is the best way to get the judiciary to turn against them. Except Thomas and Alito, they're hopeless
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u/AbaloneDifferent5282 19d ago
Thanks to Roberts and his corrupt SCOTUS, Trump has more power than they do. He’s worried. He should be.